Record 20 million Americans sign up for Affordable Care Act health coverage in 2024

[Yellowtail]

6 hours ago, heybruce said:

When you have no facts on your side, you rely on fact-free rants.

 

Got it.

And when your only fact is (as pointed out) that you've made more people dependent on government, pretend it's a good thing. 

 

What did LBJ say? 

[heybruce]

17 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

And when your only fact is (as pointed out) that you've made more people dependent on government, pretend it's a good thing. 

 

What did LBJ say? 

LBJ said lots of profanities and bragged about his penis.  What's your point?

 

Here are a couple of pertinent facts:  The US spends a significantly higher portion of it's GDP on healthcare than other rich countries  https://www.statista.com/statistics/268826/health-expenditure-as-gdp-percentage-in-oecd-countries/ and gets worse results  https://ourworldindata.org/us-life-expectancy-low.

 

I doubt that the human issues concern you, so consider this; paying to much for subpar healthcare puts the US at a competitive disadvantage in the world economy.  Existing businesses are held back by the high cost of health coverage, and legacy businesses have been bankrupted  https://www.industryweek.com/the-economy/public-policy/article/21142527/healthcare-costs-are-killing-us-manufacturing.  Individuals are also bankrupted.  Auto insurance rates are raised by the medical costs associated with liability coverage, and are still insufficient  https://www.economist.com/united-states/2024/01/18/why-car-insurance-in-america-is-actually-too-cheap.

 

I could list other problems, but the conclusion is clear:  By not providing more affordable, higher quality healthcare comparable to what other wealthy nations provide we are hurting business and the US economy.

 

How can any pro-business conservative not support universal healthcare?

[Yellowtail]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

LBJ said lots of profanities and bragged about his penis.  What's your point?

 

Here are a couple of pertinent facts:  The US spends a significantly higher portion of it's GDP on healthcare than other rich countries  https://www.statista.com/statistics/268826/health-expenditure-as-gdp-percentage-in-oecd-countries/ and gets worse results  https://ourworldindata.org/us-life-expectancy-low.

 

I doubt that the human issues concern you, so consider this; paying to much for subpar healthcare puts the US at a competitive disadvantage in the world economy.  Existing businesses are held back by the high cost of health coverage, and legacy businesses have been bankrupted  https://www.industryweek.com/the-economy/public-policy/article/21142527/healthcare-costs-are-killing-us-manufacturing.  Individuals are also bankrupted.  Auto insurance rates are raised by the medical costs associated with liability coverage, and are still insufficient  https://www.economist.com/united-states/2024/01/18/why-car-insurance-in-america-is-actually-too-cheap.

 

I could list other problems, but the conclusion is clear:  By not providing more affordable, higher quality healthcare comparable to what other wealthy nations provide we are hurting business and the US economy.

 

How can any pro-business conservative not support universal healthcare?

Using life expectancy to judge healthcare is ridiculous. 

 

What impact do you think importing millions of illegal aliens into the country has on the cost and quality of healthcare in the US? 

[heybruce]

19 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Using life expectancy to judge healthcare is ridiculous. 

 

What impact do you think importing millions of illegal aliens into the country has on the cost and quality of healthcare in the US? 

I provide sourced facts and you respond with BS.

 

What better measure of quality of healthcare than life expectancy?

 

What evidence do you have that the healthy, working age people migrating to the US are negatively impacting healthcare in the US?

 

Why don't you address my facts regarding the negative impact of overpriced healthcare on the US economy?

[Yellowtail]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

I provide sourced facts and you respond with BS.

 

What better measure of quality of healthcare than life expectancy?

Life expectance and the quality of healthcare are generally not related. Can you explain how they are? 

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

What evidence do you have that the healthy, working age people migrating to the US are negatively impacting healthcare in the US?

Not being a moron.

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

Why don't you address my facts regarding the negative impact of overpriced healthcare on the US economy?

What facts? 

[heybruce]

20 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Life expectance and the quality of healthcare are generally not related. Can you explain how they are? 

Not being a moron.

What facts? 

Seriously?  Do you think people take antibiotics and BP medicine, have surgeries, receive cancer treatment, get annual physicals, etc. just for the fun of it?  People do these things to prolong longevity and quality of life.  Medicines and medical procedures and studied and evaluated based upon their demonstrated effectiveness in extending life.  How can you not know this?

 

Sorry, but when you assume you know things about immigrants without citing any credible sources you are being a moron.

 

I provided sourced facts about healthcare costs as a percent of GDP, longevity, and an article describing the cost and inadequacy of liability coverage.  If you don't read the sources the problem isn't absence of facts, it is your willful ignorance.

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

Seriously?  Do you think people take antibiotics and BP medicine, have surgeries, receive cancer treatment, get annual physicals, etc. just for the fun of it?  People do these things to prolong longevity and quality of life.  Medicines and medical procedures and studied and evaluated based upon their demonstrated effectiveness in extending life.  How can you not know this?

Does using life expectancy take into account ethnicity, drug overdoses, car accidents, industrial accidents, suicides, gun deaths, recreational deaths, etc.? It does not. 

 

Per you, because Saudi Arabians have a greater life expectancy than do Americans, it proves Saudi Arabian medical care is better than that in the US, correct? 

List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia

 

Also per you, the implementation of the affordable care act (ACA), has made healthcare in the US worse, because US life expectancy is falling. 

Why life expectancy in the US is falling - Harvard Health

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

 

Sorry, but when you assume you know things about immigrants without citing any credible sources you are being a moron.

Now you resort to making things up. I said illegal immigrants. Millions in just the last few years, none of them working legally and all of them dependent on the US health care system for "free" care. What "credible source" does it take to understand that? 

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

I provided sourced facts about healthcare costs as a percent of GDP, longevity, and an article describing the cost and inadequacy of liability coverage.  If you don't read the sources the problem isn't absence of facts, it is your willful ignorance.

Oh, please enlighten me lefty. 

[heybruce]

19 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Does using life expectancy take into account ethnicity, drug overdoses, car accidents, industrial accidents, suicides, gun deaths, recreational deaths, etc.? It does not. 

 

Per you, because Saudi Arabians have a greater life expectancy than do Americans, it proves Saudi Arabian medical care is better than that in the US, correct? 

List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia

 

Also per you, the implementation of the affordable care act (ACA), has made healthcare in the US worse, because US life expectancy is falling. 

Why life expectancy in the US is falling - Harvard Health

Now you resort to making things up. I said illegal immigrants. Millions in just the last few years, none of them working legally and all of them dependent on the US health care system for "free" care. What "credible source" does it take to understand that? 

Oh, please enlighten me lefty. 

Are these other causes of death unique to the US?  Do you have a better measure of healthcare effectiveness than life expectancy?  I didn't think so.

 

Life expectancy dropped in all countries that mishandled the pandemic, and Trump's incoherent response resulted in far more deaths in the US than should have happened.

 

Illegal immigrants coming to the US to work are the ones most likely to work, therefore most likely to be healthy, of working age and eager to avoid any government contact.  However most of their employers deduct taxes from their pay (in order to maintain the fiction that the employee didn't know the employee was in the country illegally).  As a result the illegal immigrants are putting money into the system and taking little out.

 

Now why don't you show us your proof that these illegal immigrants are a drain on US healthcare. 

 

I've enlightened you with facts before, I'll repeat with a cut and paste.  Do you deny the below has sourced facts, or do you simply not understand them?

 

"Here are a couple of pertinent facts:  The US spends a significantly higher portion of it's GDP on healthcare than other rich countries  https://www.statista.com/statistics/268826/health-expenditure-as-gdp-percentage-in-oecd-countries/ and gets worse results  https://ourworldindata.org/us-life-expectancy-low."

 

"I doubt that the human issues concern you, so consider this; paying to much for subpar healthcare puts the US at a competitive disadvantage in the world economy.  Existing businesses are held back by the high cost of health coverage, and legacy businesses have been bankrupted  https://www.industryweek.com/the-economy/public-policy/article/21142527/healthcare-costs-are-killing-us-manufacturing.  Individuals are also bankrupted.  Auto insurance rates are raised by the medical costs associated with liability coverage, and are still insufficient  https://www.economist.com/united-states/2024/01/18/why-car-insurance-in-america-is-actually-too-cheap."

Edited January 22 by heybruce

[Yellowtail]

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

Are these other causes of death unique to the US?  Do you have a better measure of healthcare effectiveness than life expectancy?  I didn't think so.

Life expectancy would be fine, if every country calculated it the same way, and if all the causes of death listed adn well as any other deaths unrelated to healthcare were removed. 

 

To be clear, it's you position that medical care in Saudi Arabia is better than medical care in the US. 

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

Life expectancy dropped in all countries that mishandled the pandemic, and Trump's incoherent response resulted in far more deaths in the US than should have happened.

But why did the ACA not save them? How was the Biden (who killed more) response different from Trump's? We all know that the "vaccine" was in place before Biden took office, even though Biden lied and said it was not. 

 

Yes, it was a mistake for Trump to take the left's advice and shut the country down. 

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

Illegal immigrants coming to the US to work are the ones most likely to work, therefore most likely to be healthy, of working age and eager to avoid any government contact.  However most of their employers deduct taxes from their pay (in order to maintain the fiction that the employee didn't know the employee was in the country illegally).  As a result the illegal immigrants are putting money into the system and taking little out.

They are in the country illegally, none of them work legally and they are all a drag on social services, yet you continue to support an open border. 

 

A couple years ago you were claiming the open boarder was saving mothers and children, now you're claiming it's all workers coming in, Make up your mind. 

 

Taking little out, that's hilarious. Try going to an emergency room or classroom. 

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

Now why don't you show us your proof that these illegal immigrants are a drain on US healthcare. 

Anyone that is uninsured, legal or otherwise is a drain on US healthcare. Do you disagree? Are you going to argue that none of them use any healthcare? 

 

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

 

I've enlightened you with facts before, I'll repeat with a cut and paste.  Do you deny the below has sourced facts, or do you simply not understand them?

 

"Here are a couple of pertinent facts:  The US spends a significantly higher portion of it's GDP on healthcare than other rich countries  https://www.statista.com/statistics/268826/health-expenditure-as-gdp-percentage-in-oecd-countries/ and gets worse results  https://ourworldindata.org/us-life-expectancy-low."

 

"I doubt that the human issues concern you, so consider this; paying to much for subpar healthcare puts the US at a competitive disadvantage in the world economy.  Existing businesses are held back by the high cost of health coverage, and legacy businesses have been bankrupted  https://www.industryweek.com/the-economy/public-policy/article/21142527/healthcare-costs-are-killing-us-manufacturing.  Individuals are also bankrupted.  Auto insurance rates are raised by the medical costs associated with liability coverage, and are still insufficient  https://www.economist.com/united-states/2024/01/18/why-car-insurance-in-america-is-actually-too-cheap."

 

That the US spends more is likely a fact. That it gets worse results is not a fact, and you have shown nothing that proves it. 

 

Again, using life expectancy to judge healthcare is ridiculous. 

 

Because Japanese citizens live longer than American citizens you want to claim that Japanese healthcare is better than US healthcare, yet Japanese Americans live longer than white Americans. 

 

Again, it's your position that medical care in Saudi Arabia is better than medical care in the US because the citizens of Saudi Arabia live longer than US citizens. Is that correct? 

 

I think it's you that does not care about human issues, otherwise you would not support open borders. 

 

 

 

Edited January 23 by Yellowtail
sp

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Life expectancy would be fine, if every country calculated it the same way, and if all the causes of death listed adn well as any other deaths unrelated to healthcare were removed. 

 

To be clear, it's you position that medical care in Saudi Arabia is better than medical care in the US. 

But why did the ACA not save them? How was the Biden (who killed more) response different from Trump's? We all know that the "vaccine" was in place before Biden took office, even though Biden lied and said it was not. 

 

Yes, it was a mistake for Trump to take the left's advice and shut the country down. 

They are in the country illegally, none of them work legally and they are all a drag on social services, yet you continue to support an open border. 

 

A couple years ago you were claiming the open boarder was saving mothers and children, now you're claiming it's all workers coming in, Make up your mind. 

 

Taking little out, that's hilarious. Try going to an emergency room or classroom. 

Anyone that is uninsured, legal or otherwise is a drain on US healthcare. Do you disagree? Are you going to argue that none of them use any healthcare? 

 

 

That the US spends more is likely a fact. That it gets worse results is not a fact, and you have shown nothing that proves it. 

 

Again, using life expectancy to judge healthcare is ridiculous. 

 

Because Japanese citizens live longer than American citizens you want to claim that Japanese healthcare is better than US healthcare, yet Japanese Americans live longer than white Americans. 

 

Again, it's your position that medical care in Saudi Arabia is better than medical care in the US because the citizens of Saudi Arabia live longer than US citizens. Is that correct? 

 

I think it's you that does not care about human issues, otherwise you would not support open borders.

 

To be clear, I have no idea what healthcare is like in Saudi Arabia, and never indicated otherwise.  However if Saudis live longer on average than Americans then quality of healthcare probably has something to do with it.

 

To be clear, you have failed to come up with any measure of quality of healthcare other than life expectancy.

 

To be clear, Trump's mismanagement of messaging on Covid led to chaos and widespread denial of science and vaccines in particular.  He laid the groundwork for the denial by telling people they only had to believe news sources that he approved of.

 

Funny how Trump isn't mentioning the development of Covid vaccines on his watch while he campaigns.  Care to offer a possible explanation?

 

Once again you are making stuff up and claiming it is what I believe.  Of course you can't give any evidence for your fantasies.  I never supported open borders, though I do think legitimate asylum claims should be handled in accordance with international law.  I also believe legal immigration should be expanded and simplified for the good of the US economy.  I don't support open borders, but I don't think it's a crisis.  Certainly not as serious a crisis and election denial and sedition.  How about you?