Personal Income Tax Guide (for foreigners) Thailand

[Mike Lister]

7 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 

Who the hell is going to "test" that for exemption or assessability from my latest Wise transfer? Impossible.

YOU, that's your job when you complete the tax return! It's YOUR job to tell the RD, via the tax return, what that WISE transfer comprised because only you know.

[The Cyclist]

16 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Humbug. CRS will let the Thai tax authorities know what their citizens are earning abroad. Period.

 

You might have noticed that I have been banging on about compliance of the rules around CRS, not what CRS actually does.

 

Quote

Each participating country will annually automatically exchange with the other country the below information in the case of Jurisdiction A with respect to each Jurisdiction B reportable account, and in the case of Jurisdiction B with respect to each Jurisdiction A reportable account:^[16]

1. Name, address, Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) and date and place of birth of each Reportable Person.
2. Account number
3. Name and identifying number of the reporting financial institution;
4. Account balance or value as of the end of the relevant calendar year (or other appropriate reporting period) or at its closure, if the account was closed.
5. Distributions made to the account (dividends, interest, gross proceeds/redemptions, other)

 

If Thailand complies with above. It would appear that All Expat tax residents  will indeed need to get a TIN, see note 1.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Para 23 of the document currently reads:

 

Who must file a tax return? The English language translation of the RD rule says that, "You have to file a return on the income that you received if you meet one of the following conditions:

(1) Your total income exceeded 120,000 baht in the tax year.

(2) You were married and your income combined with that of your spouse exceeded 220,000 baht in the tax year."

 

This is understood to mean assessable income.

 

(Note: you had this debate with Sheryl to the point of exhaustion, in the long thread)

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/030265guide91.pdf

 

The quote does not refer to earned" income, merely to income. In the case of foreigners' in Thailand who receive funds from overseas, the RD quote is taken to mean, received as well as earned. Those transfers are income until they are assessed in a tax return and shown to be otherwise.

 

Additionally, Point A in the list of unknowns at the end of the document refer to issues that are unknowns

and unclear, issues that require clarification from the RD.

 

A. The exact nature of the imported income taxation rules between the Thai RD and countries with whom it has DTAs

 

B.  The conflicting need to file a tax return where zero tax is due (a nil return).

 

C.  International Gift Tax rules

 

D. Tax status of funds remitted when not tax resident in TH

 

E.  Where does the top rate of tax band start, 4 mill or 5 mill?

 

This thread has two choices. It can either, accept that those transferred funds are considered to be income, until they are assessed in a tax return and shown to be otherwise, or, accept the issue falls under Point A (above) listed at the end of the document. There is not a third option called, keep asking questions and challenging the point. (Note: the issue exists in both places, in para 23 and in the list of unknowns....belt and braces)

 

Sorry Mike - but I do not accept that as 'proof' at all - quite the contrary. I note you have added a few points to the list of unknowns - but I feel you are trying to push your views as facts and are missing the point about what this thread is all about and why Expats are sharing their opinions.

 

Just because you file a tax return, for whatever reason, does not mean that all Expats must lodge a tax return.  And whethr an Expat is from a DTA country or not, is irrelevent in regards to whether they have to lodge a tax return or not. I see nothing that states that a retired/married Expat who does not earn income from employment must lodge a tax return in any Thai RD document or Thai Govt websites that relates to Expats not erarning income from employment. The document you quote from is not relevent to Expats, unless they are earning an income from employment.

 

Stating that something is 'understood to mean assessable income' as a fact, when it is your opinion, is not right. If the Thai RD has stated that as a fact in a document that is relevent to non-working Expats, then please provide it.

 

Regarding those unknowns you listed I must say this - expecting to get answers to all of these things for every Expat from different countries and in different financial situations and then putting all that in one 'simple guide' is extremely 'ambitious' and a bad idea.  My advice to you Mike, is to be very careful about stating as a given fact, anything that relates to this change in income taxation in Thailand (this new tax era) - unless you have that confirmed by the Thai RD, have a specific link to that confirmation, and are absolutely certain it applies to everyone.  There is a reason why legal and taxation 'experts' do not give general advice - or if they do it is heaviuly subjected to caveats - they can be sued for giving false or incorrect information, that results in somone losing money or breaking the taxation laws by following that advice.

 

Perhaps trying to create a comprehensive and all-encompassing 'guide' is not really the best way to go forward. I dont think it is realistic or that you have the ability to put together something that in your opinion answers all questions. That is what a tax expert is paid to do - and they have the training, experience and qualifications to provide that advice in response to any person's own personal financial circumstances. 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

 

If income is specifically covered by a DTA from Country X, Y or Z with Thailand, it should not be taxable in Thailand, full stop.

 

I think what people have to really grasp is this is about closing a loophole that allowed tax avoidance / evasion. It is not about double taxing people.

 

 

Just because it "should" be covered, does not mean that it "will" be covered. Up until the end of 2023, most pensioners were not concerned about paying Thai tax. Now they are, and there have been lots of threads about it.

 

IMO what Mike Lister is trying to condense it into one topic with confirmed information, rather than what people, especially the Thai RD could, would, should and ought to do.

 

At this point, and until a poster actually meets the RD, gets his TIN, files his claim and reports back here, nobody really KNOWS what the new rules are. I feel that the topic needs perhaps 10 reports, from single, married. married with children of school , college and university age, and from as many different nationalities as possible.

 

Until that point is reached there are few confirmed reports and the topic is turning into a slow motion buggers muddle.

 

At this time I am only trusting reports from Mike Lister and his team as he seems to me the only person who has spent a lot of time researching the subject, and who has come up with concrete information.

[The Cyclist]

9 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Just because it "should" be covered, does not mean that it "will" be covered. Up until the end of 2023, most pensioners were not concerned about paying Thai tax. Now they are, and there have been lots of threads about it.

 

It has already been printed by Mazers and others that ' Thailand will respect existing DTA's '

 

11 minutes ago, billd766 said:

At this point, and until a poster actually meets the RD, gets his TIN, files his claim and reports back here, nobody really KNOWS what the new rules are.

 

Exactly, and that is not going to happen until between Jan - Mar 2025.

 

Or the RD come out with a detailed plan before then.

 

12 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Until that point is reached there are few confirmed reports and the topic is turning into a slow motion buggers muddle.

 

Until the RD come out with a detailed announcement, every thread is going to turn into a buggers muddle.

 

If it helps you.

 

My private pension ( taxed in the UK ) is now being paid to my UK account, until I get clarity from the RD.

 

My Government pension ( taxed in the UK and covered by a DTA ) continues to be remitted direct to Thailand.

 

At this moment in time, I can do no more to limit my potential exposure to the Thai taxman.

[Mike Lister]

9 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Sorry Mike - but I do not accept that as 'proof' at all - quite the contrary. I note you have added a few points to the list of unknowns - but I feel you are trying to push your views as facts and are missing the point about what this thread is all about and why Expats are sharing their opinions.

 

Just because you file a tax return, for whatever reason, does not mean that all Expats must lodge a tax return.  And whethr an Expat is from a DTA country or not, is irrelevent in regards to whether they have to lodge a tax return or not. I see nothing that states that a retired/married Expat who does not earn income from employment must lodge a tax return in any Thai RD document or Thai Govt websites that relates to Expats not erarning income from employment. The document you quote from is not relevent to Expats, unless they are earning an income from employment.

 

Stating that something is 'understood to mean assessable income' as a fact, when it is your opinion, is not right. If the Thai RD has stated that as a fact in a document that is relevent to non-working Expats, then please provide it.

 

Regarding those unknowns you listed I must say this - expecting to get answers to all of these things for every Expat from different countries and in different financial situations and then putting all that in one 'simple guide' is extremely 'ambitious' and a bad idea.  My advice to you Mike, is to be very careful about stating as a given fact, anything that relates to this change in income taxation in Thailand (this new tax era) - unless you have that confirmed by the Thai RD, have a specific link to that confirmation, and are absolutely certain it applies to everyone.  There is a reason why legal and taxation 'experts' do not give general advice - or if they do it is heaviuly subjected to caveats - they can be sued for giving false or incorrect information, that results in somone losing money or breaking the taxation laws by following that advice.

 

Perhaps trying to create a comprehensive and all-encompassing 'guide' is not really the best way to go forward. I dont think it is realistic or that you have the ability to put together something that in your opinion answers all questions. That is what a tax expert is paid to do - and they have the training, experience and qualifications to provide that advice in response to any person's own personal financial circumstances. 

Nope, not my views at all, they are the views of posters and links that have resulted from the various threads, combined with personal experience of several people. 

 

We have been backwards and forwards on most of the points you raised, many time before, as you have with Sheryl and others. We are NOT going for another iteration. My offer to you is to either, accept the interpretation as it stands presently in the document ,or provide clear and conclusive proof that individual components of what is written are incorrect, along with links from the RD to confirm what you say, or, accept that there is uncertainty surrounding the particular issue which is why it's on the list of unknows at the end.

 

We will not turn this thread into another 230 page, 6,300 post thread that goes round in circles, people are going to have to be reasonable about this for the sake of others who want to know..

 

[Mike Lister]

The following highlights the problem that is causing friction:

 

"Stating that something is 'understood to mean assessable income' as a fact, when it is your opinion, is not right. If the Thai RD has stated that as a fact in a document that is relevent to non-working Expats, then please provide it".

 

People are looking for certainty and proof where none exists, in the absence of it, we state our understanding and the basis for our presumptions.  What is the alternative to that? Do nothing, say we don't know, debate it endlessly over a further 6,300 posts and still not conclude? Those things are not helpful.

 

We don't state any of these things as fact, we caveat and disclaim the entire document from the first line. The term, "understood to mean assessible income", was a quote I lifted from an exchange between T&G and Sheryl where this same subject was debated and Sheryl concluded it was so. Until somebody comes along with conclusive proof and a link that changes that interpretation, that is what our interpretation is.....because it has to be something, hence yes, it is our fact for the moment.

 

[Mike Lister]

11 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 

Of course it's you -- self-assessment is the only way this will work. No way can income be broken from capital in a remittance. Then, why this ridiculous statement:

 

"Tested for exemption" and "tested against the DTA" What resources are ever going to do that, and with what certainty of success? So, can we agree -- self-assessment is the only logical path forward with this new taxation criteria?

Perhaps we are/have been talking at cross purposes. I have never expected, ever, that the system would be anything other than self assessment for everyone, from day one. I can't imagine what I've said that has made you think otherwise?

 

It is YOU that must "test for exemption", YOU have to know if it is exempt or not!

 

and it is YOU that must "test against the DTA".

 

 

[Guavaman]

46 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I see nothing that states that a retired/married Expat who does not earn income from employment must lodge a tax return in any Thai RD document or Thai Govt websites that relates to Expats not erarning income from employment. The document you quote from is not relevent to Expats, unless they are earning an income from employment.

 

Stating that something is 'understood to mean assessable income' as a fact, when it is your opinion, is not right. If the Thai RD has stated that as a fact in a document that is relevent to non-working Expats, then please provide it.

Under the Revenue Code, income from a pension is assessable income.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

Revenue Code

Chapter 3 Income Tax

Section 40 Assessable income is income of the following categories including any amount of tax paid by the payer of income or by any other person on behalf of a taxpayer.

(1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment.

 

Section 56 Every taxpayer except a minor or a person adjudged incompetent or quasi-incompetent shall, on or before the last day of March every year, file to the official appointed by the Minister a tax return reporting the assessable income received in the preceding tax year in the form prescribed by the Director-General, if such person -

 (1) has no spouse and has the assessable income of the preceding tax year exceeds 60,000 baht,

(2) has no spouse and has the assessable income of the preceding tax year under only Section 40 (1) exceeds 120,000 baht,

(3) has a spouse and the assessable income of the preceding tax year exceeds 120,000 baht, or

(4) has a spouse and the assessable income of the preceding tax year under only Section 40 (1) exceeds 220,000 baht.

 

Thai Tax 2022/23 Booklet - PricewaterhouseCoopers Legal & Tax Consultants Limited

https://www.pwc.com/th/en/tax/assets/thai-tax/thai-tax-2022-23-booklet.pdf

Tax administration

Thailand applies a self-assessment system in collecting taxes. Taxpayers are required to declare their tax liabilities in the prescribed tax returns and pay the tax due at the time of filing.

The following individuals are required to file income tax returns for income earned in the preceding tax year irrespective of whether there is any tax due:

• A person who has no spouse and earns income of more than Baht 60,000

• A person who has no spouse and earns income under category (1) (salaries and wages) of more than Baht 120,000

• A person who has a spouse and earns income of more than Baht 120,000

• A person who has a spouse and earns income under category (1) (salaries and wages) of more than Baht 220,000.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

33 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The following highlights the problem that is causing friction:

 

"Stating that something is 'understood to mean assessable income' as a fact, when it is your opinion, is not right. If the Thai RD has stated that as a fact in a document that is relevent to non-working Expats, then please provide it".

 

People are looking for certainty and proof where none exists, in the absence of it, we state our understanding and the basis for our presumptions.  What is the alternative to that? Do nothing, say we don't know, debate it endlessly over a further 6,300 posts and still not conclude? Those things are not helpful.

 

We don't state any of these things as fact, we caveat and disclaim the entire document from the first line. The term, "understood to mean assessible income", was a quote I lifted from an exchange between T&G and Sheryl where this same subject was debated and Sheryl concluded it was so. Until somebody comes along with conclusive proof and a link that changes that interpretation, that is what our interpretation is.....because it has to be something, hence yes, it is our fact for the moment.

 

No mate - that is the wrong way to do it and I cannot participate on that basis. You may want to make an interpretation based on opinions, but in the absence of absolute proof I do not accept that is the right way to deal with this matter. All opinions are challengeable IMO and saying they are not is unacceptable. I will make my own decisions going forward on what is the right way for myself to deal with this important matter. When things become clearer and Thai RD provides its statements and advice in response to all the criticism, I will seek professional advice from a tax expert to make sure I am correct. 

[Mike Lister]

9 minutes ago, Guavaman said:

Under the Revenue Code, income from a pension is assessable income.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

Revenue Code

Chapter 3 Income Tax

Section 40 Assessable income is income of the following categories including any amount of tax paid by the payer of income or by any other person on behalf of a taxpayer.

(1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment.

 

Section 56 Every taxpayer except a minor or a person adjudged incompetent or quasi-incompetent shall, on or before the last day of March every year, file to the official appointed by the Minister a tax return reporting the assessable income received in the preceding tax year in the form prescribed by the Director-General, if such person -

 (1) has no spouse and has the assessable income of the preceding tax year exceeds 60,000 baht,

(2) has no spouse and has the assessable income of the preceding tax year under only Section 40 (1) exceeds 120,000 baht,

(3) has a spouse and the assessable income of the preceding tax year exceeds 120,000 baht, or

(4) has a spouse and the assessable income of the preceding tax year under only Section 40 (1) exceeds 220,000 baht.

 

Thai Tax 2022/23 Booklet - PricewaterhouseCoopers Legal & Tax Consultants Limited

https://www.pwc.com/th/en/tax/assets/thai-tax/thai-tax-2022-23-booklet.pdf

Tax administration

Thailand applies a self-assessment system in collecting taxes. Taxpayers are required to declare their tax liabilities in the prescribed tax returns and pay the tax due at the time of filing.

The following individuals are required to file income tax returns for income earned in the preceding tax year irrespective of whether there is any tax due:

• A person who has no spouse and earns income of more than Baht 60,000

• A person who has no spouse and earns income under category (1) (salaries and wages) of more than Baht 120,000

• A person who has a spouse and earns income of more than Baht 120,000

• A person who has a spouse and earns income under category (1) (salaries and wages) of more than Baht 220,000.

I think that rather conclusively puts to rest a couple of arguments about whether a pension is considered to be income or not, it is. More importantly, the need to file a tax return, even if there is no tax due, is confirmed for a second time. I'm inclined to take those things off the list of unknowns, unless I hear objections.

 

Many thanks once again to Guavaman for doing the research that we all should be doing.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

I think that rather conclusively puts to rest a couple of arguments about whether a pension is considered to be income or not, it is. More importantly, the need to file a tax return, even if there is no tax due, is confirmed for a second time. I'm inclined to take those things off the list of unknowns, unless I hear objections.

 

Many thanks once again to Guavaman for doing the research that we all should be doing.

I cannot resist one more post.

 

NO it does NOT.  Read the quote:

(1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment.

 

FROM EMPLOYMENT being the key words. The Age Pension is paid whether a person worked or not in their lifetime. It is a social welfare entitlement paid to citizens of a country if/when they qualify through age and time living in that country (and maybe a few other criteria). 

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I cannot resist one more post.

 

NO it does NOT.  Read the quote:

(1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment.

 

FROM EMPLOYMENT being the key words. The Age Pension is paid whether a person worked or not in their lifetime. It is a social welfare entitlement paid to citizens of a country if/when they qualify through age and time living in that country (and maybe a few other criteria). 

We are not going to debate this further in this thread because it is now a matter of interpretation. I'll leave it both on the list of unknowns but I'll also include the link for the RD rule citing chapter and para etc. Further  posts on this point will not remain visible, the thread can move on to other aspects. If anyone wants further debates on this item, the 230 page thread is open and waiting. Thanks

[Mike Lister]

The need to file a nill return is confirmed in the following link, https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

Chapter 3, Section 40, para 1

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

More importantly, the need to file a tax return, even if there is no tax due, is confirmed for a second time.

 

Granted. But, ignore this rule at no peril. Up to you.

[Mike Lister]

Let's remind ourselves of our mission in this thread and be more specific about how we will complete it.

 

This thread attempts to provide an overview of the things that are known about the Personal Income Tax process, as it relates to foreigners. Some aspects of the process are very clear and unambiguous and they can be stated with some certainty and confidence. Other aspects are less clear or ambiguous and must be be stated as presumptions, caveated or are interpretations of what is written. A few aspects of the process are unknown, in which case we are obliged to say that we don't know and that we are waiting for further information from the RD.

 

Where parts of the process are ambiguous or unclear, the document in the op will use  expression such as, "it is our understanding", " it is likely", "it is probable", "it is thought that", "our interpretation is" and similar. Not every interpretation will be capable of being agreed with everyone. If anyone disagrees with an interpretation, they are most welcome to post proof from a reliable source that clearly, definitively and unambiguously provides a more accurate understanding. 

 

It is not the job of this thread to definitively agree every part of every process with everyone, nor is it the job of this thread to suggest that any part of the process is good or bad, optimal or poor. Any interpretation or presumption will remain in place, until it is superseded by confirmed fact.

[Mike Lister]

9 hours ago, JimGant said:

 

Of course it's you -- self-assessment is the only way this will work. No way can income be broken from capital in a remittance. Then, why this ridiculous statement:

 

"Tested for exemption" and "tested against the DTA" What resources are ever going to do that, and with what certainty of success? So, can we agree -- self-assessment is the only logical path forward with this new taxation criteria?

 

I had to come back to this point which made me realize you haven't read the document in the op fully because para 10 unambiguously states:

 

"Because you are Tax Resident, YOU must review your income each year to determine if it is regarded as assessable to tax in Thailand, nobody else will do this for you".

 

As you can see, it has always been understood, from the very outset, that the tax filing system is a self assessment.

[Mike Lister]

Para 13 has been updated to include:  Income is understood to mean, money that is received from any source.

 

Para 16 has been changed to read: The way in which the income is funds are received in Thailand does not change its definition.

[Mike Lister]

Lastly, I've taken a copy of the doc in the OP and later today I'll go offline and go through the document with a fine tooth comb to make sure all the terminology is consistent and defined, the latest set of challenges made me spot one instance where it is not. My problem at this point is finding the time to do that along with the demands of the thread/section and posters (both in the thread and via PM) plus my personal needs for time. I'm not able to find the time I need to research and read because so much of it is being consumed in debate with people who have not read the document properly or who are looking for certainty when none exists at present.

 

I will repost an updated version of the document, once complete.

[The Cyclist]

9 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The need to file a nill return is confirmed in the following link, https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

Chapter 3, Section 40, para 1

 

Does the Revenue code not deal primarily with Thailands Internal Taxation Policy ?
 

Quote

ncome derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment.⁴

 

The above sounds very much like it applies to employment / past employment in Thailand.

 

I would expect to see an additional section added to the Revenue code to compliment the additional section being added to the tax filing form.

 

Therefore it is a bit premature to be announcing that anything is actually confirmed.

 

Neither does it address the issue of whether something is ' assessable ' or ' non-assessable '

[Mike Lister]

13 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Does the Revenue code not deal primarily with Thailands Internal Taxation Policy ?
 

 

The above sounds very much like it applies to employment / past employment in Thailand.

 

I would expect to see an additional section added to the Revenue code to compliment the additional section being added to the tax filing form.

 

Therefore it is a bit premature to be announcing that anything is actually confirmed.

 

Neither does it address the issue of whether something is ' assessable ' or ' non-assessable '

From our perspective, there is only exempt income and assessable income, the RD really doesn't define non assessable in a way that we can use. There is a list of non assessable items on the code but they appear to apply to Thai s. But yes, the RD code at present is designed for Thai people rather than foriegners. As for being premature....everything is snapshot in time and subject to change.

[Mike Lister]

22 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Does the Revenue code not deal primarily with Thailands Internal Taxation Policy ?
 

 

The above sounds very much like it applies to employment / past employment in Thailand.

 

I would expect to see an additional section added to the Revenue code to compliment the additional section being added to the tax filing form.

 

Therefore it is a bit premature to be announcing that anything is actually confirmed.

 

Neither does it address the issue of whether something is ' assessable ' or ' non-assessable '

Sorry I was wrong on that, we have three categories, exempt, assessable and taxable....I believe.

[BKKKevin]

Mike your summary of the Income Tax implications and calculations of our accessible income seem pretty straightforward.

 

I wonder how transfers of large sums of non income money into Thailand will be treated?

 

Transfers to buy real estate, make deposits for visa requirements (Ex. 800k), buy a car or pay for a heart bypass?…

 

These are most likely to be coming from the foreigners savings… 

 

Doubt it would be taxed as income?…

But then comes the nightmare of how to prove it to a Thai bureaucrat?…

Is there a simple form to exclude these types of transfers from being coded as “Accessible Income”?…

Edited January 16 by BKKKevin

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, BKKKevin said:

Mike your summary of the Income Tax implications and calculations of our accessible income seem pretty straightforward.

 

I wonder how transfers of large sums of non income money into Thailand will be treated?

 

Transfers to buy real estate, make deposits for visa requirements (Ex. 800k), buy a car or pay for a heart bypass?…

 

These are most likely to be coming from the foreigners savings… 

 

Doubt it would be taxed as income?…

But then comes the nightmare of how to prove it to a Thai bureaucrat?…

Is there a simple form to exclude these types of transfers from being coded as “Accessible Income”

I think you are right, I don't believe those things will be taxed either but of course at this stage we don't have the definitive word from the RD on this, nor the new forms. Savings acquired before 1 Jan 24 are free of tax, we have the official statement on that, a cutoff account statement as of that date, ought be enough to prove the case.

[The Cyclist]

4 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

But yes, the RD code at present is designed for Thai people rather than foriegners

 

We are in agreement that RD Code, as has been copied & pasted numerous times is for Thais and foreigners who are / have been employed in Thailand.

 

7 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

From our perspective, there is only exempt income and assessable income, the RD really doesn't define non assessable in a way that we can use.

 

I believe that the wording is something like ' Anyone who has assessable income must file an annual tax return ' Whicn by implication means that if you do not have assessable income there is no need to file a tax return.

 

Ditto exempt income. If it is exempt it is not assessable for tax, and therefore no tax filing necessary.

 

That would be the norm up until 01 Jan 2024, and will probably continue to be the norm for Thailands Internal taxation Policy.

 

A further edict is required from the RD before anything can be declared as ' confirmed ' pertaining to the readers / posters on this, and related threads.

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

We are in agreement that RD Code, as has been copied & pasted numerous times is for Thais and foreigners who are / have been employed in Thailand.

 

 

I believe that the wording is something like ' Anyone who has assessable income must file an annual tax return ' Whicn by implication means that if you do not have assessable income there is no need to file a tax return.

 

Ditto exempt income. If it is exempt it is not assessable for tax, and therefore no tax filing necessary.

 

That would be the norm up until 01 Jan 2024, and will probably continue to be the norm for Thailands Internal taxation Policy.

 

A further edict is required from the RD before anything can be declared as ' confirmed ' pertaining to the readers / posters on this, and related threads.

Yes, I think agree with all those things. By saying that are three levels, assessable, exempt and taxable, I was trying to delineate the different stages of the process, so it is easier for readers to understand.

[The Cyclist]

5 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Yes, I think agree with all those things. By saying that are three levels, assessable, exempt and taxable, I was trying to delineate the different stages of the process, so it is easier for readers to understand.

 

The easist way that will be achieved is by awaiting and then publishing the amendment to the tax filing form.

 

Hopefully the amendment will be broken down into subsections that relate to foreigners.

 

* DTA income

 

* Pension income

 

* Pre taxed income

 

* Savings

 

Or something similar.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

The easist way that will be achieved is by awaiting and then publishing the amendment to the tax filing form.

 

Hopefully the amendment will be broken down into subsections that relate to foreigners.

 

* DTA income

 

* Pension income

 

* Pre taxed income

 

* Savings

 

Or something similar.

Yes, hopefully, sure, but we need to be able to paint a picture of the parts that we do know and also bring readers up to speed on the higher level overview and the process. There will of course be gaps, some quite large, let's continue to record them in the list of unknowns so that we can make progress.

[digital]

Thanks very helpful.

 

Anyone know how income from property rental overseas will be handled?

 

In the UK property income is calculated from rent received, minus expenses such as insurance, repairs, maintenance, management fees etc. What's left is the "Adjusted profit for the year"

 

If this income was brought into Thailand what figure would they look at, the total rent, or what the UK calculation says is profit?

 

In my case the adjusted profit is under the personal allowance. I have a tax certificate each year SA302 that shows "total income = £0.00" -  this is because the adjusted profit for the rent (rent minus expenses) minus personal allowance is <0.

 

What figure would Thailand want me to declare, the SA302 total income, or the income before deduction of personal allowance? If the former then do Thailand also allow expenses to be deducted, I have only seen "Deductions allowed for the calculation of PIT... c. Income from letting out of property on hire 1) Building and wharves    30%" at Personal Income Tax | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

 

Thanks

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, digital said:

Thanks very helpful.

 

Anyone know how income from property rental overseas will be handled?

 

In the UK property income is calculated from rent received, minus expenses such as insurance, repairs, maintenance, management fees etc. What's left is the "Adjusted profit for the year"

 

If this income was brought into Thailand what figure would they look at, the total rent, or what the UK calculation says is profit?

 

In my case the adjusted profit is under the personal allowance. I have a tax certificate each year SA302 that shows "total income = £0.00" -  this is because the adjusted profit for the rent (rent minus expenses) minus personal allowance is <0.

 

What figure would Thailand want me to declare, the SA302 total income, or the income before deduction of personal allowance? If the former then do Thailand also allow expenses to be deducted, I have only seen "Deductions allowed for the calculation of PIT... c. Income from letting out of property on hire 1) Building and wharves    30%" at Personal Income Tax | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

 

Thanks

Only funds remitted to Thailand are potentially assessable for Thai tax. Please read the document in the op before raising queries.