Israel is at War - General discussion (pt3)

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

So much winning!...on the other hand...

"But three months after Mr. Netanyahu declared that “total victory is within reach,” the military acknowledges that the Rafah siege has eliminated only one-third of Hamas’s brigade. Hamas’s leadership remains intact. And roughly 120 hostages are believed to remain somewhere in Gaza, although about a third are thought to be dead."

https://archive.ph/c14L7

What a bizarre reply. If you read the post I was responding to you'd know I was filling in a huge chunk of missing and up to date information on why the IDF made the decision to strike the school.

 

Because the cowardly terrorists had set up a command center in there. The post I replied to lacked that import peace of info.  Not sure what your "So much winning!" and Rafah reference is but its nothing to do with this particular incident in the middle of Gaza, Nuseirat.

[Bkk Brian]

Keeping fingers crossed for this but expectations low unfortunately

 

Israel and Hamas are expected to resume mediated negotiations over the hostages’ release after the Palestinian terrorist group dropped its demand for an a priori commitment to end the Gaza War, according to reporting on July 6. Israeli negotiators will restart talks with Qatari and Egyptian mediators, Jerusalem said, after Doha reassured senior envoys of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu about the new Hamas position.

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/07/06/hamas-drops-key-demand-for-hostage-talks/

 

Israeli officials said that the main sticking point in ceasefire negotiations is Article 14, which states that the United States, Egypt, and Qatar will “make every effort” to ensure negotiations end in an agreement and that a ceasefire is held as negotiations continue. (3/6)

Hamas seeks to remove the phrase “make every effort,” leaving only “ensure.” (4/6)

https://x.com/criticalthreats/status/1809680089308930480

 

Report: Shin Bet chief to head up negotiating team departing for Cairo tomorrow

Mossad chief David Barnea was in Qatar last week and is slated to return again this week, as negotiations on a potential deal have been restarted.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/report-shin-bet-chief-to-head-up-negotiating-team-departing-for-cairo-tomorrow/

[Robert Paulson]

The Lancet estimates the death toll could be as high as 186,000 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext

 

Were really getting our tax dollars worth now 

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

What a bizarre reply. If you read the post I was responding to you'd know I was filling in a huge chunk of missing and up to date information on why the IDF made the decision to strike the school.

 

Because the cowardly terrorists had set up a command center in there. The post I replied to lacked that import peace of info.  Not sure what your "So much winning!" and Rafah reference is but its nothing to do with this particular incident in the middle of Gaza, Nuseirat.

My mistake. My original post got taken down because the link was protected by a pay wall. So when I reposted with an accessible link I assumed without reading that the post I quoted, which was your latest was the same as before when a previous post of yours was the latest.. Here is the post I intended to comment on in which you quoted another claim from the IDF about progress in the war based on body count. 

But as the post I quoted from the NY Times shows, Israeli generals believe that they have only destroyed 1/3 of the Hamas battalions based in Rafah. And yet they are winding down operations there. So much for the goal of the total destruction of Hamas. As quoted previously, the Israeli military is low on armaments. And the threat from Hezbollah is growing greater. And there is a shortage of soldiers

 

"The long-simmering issue has come to a head as the military deals with manpower shortages wrought by months of fighting in Gaza and the possibility of war against the Hezbollah terror group in Lebanon.

The military currently requires some 10,000 new soldiers, Gallant told the committee Monday, but can only accommodate the enlistment of an additional 3,000 ultra-Orthodox this year, which would be in addition to the 1,800 Haredi soldiers who are drafted annually."

https://www.timesofisrael.com/gallant-idf-needs-flexible-regulations-on-haredi-draft-not-law-setting-quotas/

Edited July 8 by placeholder

[Bkk Brian]

NEW: Hamas is continuing to resist Israeli and US efforts to create a phased ceasefire deal that would secure the release of Israeli hostages, end the war, and begin major reconstruction efforts in the Gaza Strip. (1/3)

2/ The remaining gap in ceasefire negotiations is significant because agreeing to the most recent Hamas language would effectively commit Israel to the permanent ceasefire Hamas has been demanding before Hamas released all remaining hostages.

3/ Hamas’ current demands could also enable Hamas to drag on negotiations indefinitely with no mechanism to compel it to release the remaining hostages.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

NEW: Hamas is continuing to resist Israeli and US efforts to create a phased ceasefire deal that would secure the release of Israeli hostages, end the war, and begin major reconstruction efforts in the Gaza Strip. (1/3)

2/ The remaining gap in ceasefire negotiations is significant because agreeing to the most recent Hamas language would effectively commit Israel to the permanent ceasefire Hamas has been demanding before Hamas released all remaining hostages.

3/ Hamas’ current demands could also enable Hamas to drag on negotiations indefinitely with no mechanism to compel it to release the remaining hostages.

You sure about that? That the fault lies with Hamas this time? It's a good thing that Israel is being led by such an honorable person as Benjamin Netanyahu.. Otherwise, there would be room for doubt.

 

Netanyahu issues list of ‘non-negotiable’ demands as hostage talks slated to restart

Ahead of the Israeli negotiating team’s departure for further hostage deal talks in Cairo and Doha later this week, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu presented a list on Sunday evening of what he said were non-negotiable Israeli demands, including a guarantee that Israel could resume fighting, which would need to be met in the event of a hostage release and ceasefire deal with Hamas.

Netanyahu’s statement, at a crucial phase ahead of the resumption of talks, sparked anger, both in Israel and among mediators, with some accusing him of attempting to sabotage hard-won progress.

The renewed negotiations in both Egypt and Qatar come after the Hamas terror group said on Saturday that it was ready to discuss a hostage deal and an end to the war in Gaza without an upfront commitment by Israel to a “complete and permanent ceasefire,” breaking from the position it has held in all previous negotiations since November.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-issues-list-of-non-negotiable-demands-as-hostage-talks-slated-to-restart/

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You sure about that? That the fault lies with Hamas this time? It's a good thing that Israel is being led by such an honorable person as Benjamin Netanyahu.. Otherwise, there would be room for doubt.

 

Netanyahu issues list of ‘non-negotiable’ demands as hostage talks slated to restart

Ahead of the Israeli negotiating team’s departure for further hostage deal talks in Cairo and Doha later this week, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu presented a list on Sunday evening of what he said were non-negotiable Israeli demands, including a guarantee that Israel could resume fighting, which would need to be met in the event of a hostage release and ceasefire deal with Hamas.

Netanyahu’s statement, at a crucial phase ahead of the resumption of talks, sparked anger, both in Israel and among mediators, with some accusing him of attempting to sabotage hard-won progress.

The renewed negotiations in both Egypt and Qatar come after the Hamas terror group said on Saturday that it was ready to discuss a hostage deal and an end to the war in Gaza without an upfront commitment by Israel to a “complete and permanent ceasefire,” breaking from the position it has held in all previous negotiations since November.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-issues-list-of-non-negotiable-demands-as-hostage-talks-slated-to-restart/

ISW is, are you sure its Netanyahu? What issues is he raising that are outside the previous Biden/Israel deal that was endorsed by the Security Council?

Edited July 8 by Bkk Brian

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

ISW is, are you sure its Netanyahu? What issues is he raising that are outside the previous Biden/Israel deal that was endorsed by the Security Council?

"Netanyahu’s statement, at a crucial phase ahead of the resumption of talks, sparked anger, both in Israel and among mediators, with some accusing him of attempting to sabotage hard-won progress."

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

"Netanyahu’s statement, at a crucial phase ahead of the resumption of talks, sparked anger, both in Israel and among mediators, with some accusing him of attempting to sabotage hard-won progress."

That did not answer my question though did it.

 

11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What issues is he raising that are outside the previous Biden/Israel deal that was endorsed by the Security Council?

 

From ISW

 

Hamas’ most recent ceasefire position demonstrates that the group has not meaningfully shifted its position since negotiations last stalled in June and that it still seeks to undermine the agreement’s phasing. Axios reported on July 6 that the outstanding gaps between Israel and Hamas center on the language regarding and time-delimitation of negotiations to transition from the first phase of the ceasefire deal to the second phase.[4] The current proposal says that the United States, Egypt, and Qatar will “make every effort” to ensure negotiations during the first phase end in a transition to the second phase and a sustainable calm. Hamas is attempting to remove “make every effort,” replacing it with “ensure“ and dropping the original six-week time limit for the first phase.[5] This change would make the initial ceasefire effectively permanent from the start and would commit the United States, Qatar, and Egypt to securing a ceasefire and enable Hamas to draw out negotiations for the transition to the second phase indefinitely, if needed.[6] The language and removal of the time-delimited first phase makes it more difficult for Israel to resume operations to pressure Hamas and extract concessions without breaking the agreement entirely or appearing to scuttle negotiations over the transition to phase two. This could allow Hamas to secure a complete ceasefire without adhering to commitments under phases two and three, which include the release of Israeli hostages. The categories of hostages in phase two and three include Israeli soldiers, whom Hamas is reticent to release.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

That did not answer my question though did it.

 

 

From ISW

 

Hamas’ most recent ceasefire position demonstrates that the group has not meaningfully shifted its position since negotiations last stalled in June and that it still seeks to undermine the agreement’s phasing. Axios reported on July 6 that the outstanding gaps between Israel and Hamas center on the language regarding and time-delimitation of negotiations to transition from the first phase of the ceasefire deal to the second phase.[4] The current proposal says that the United States, Egypt, and Qatar will “make every effort” to ensure negotiations during the first phase end in a transition to the second phase and a sustainable calm. Hamas is attempting to remove “make every effort,” replacing it with “ensure“ and dropping the original six-week time limit for the first phase.[5] This change would make the initial ceasefire effectively permanent from the start and would commit the United States, Qatar, and Egypt to securing a ceasefire and enable Hamas to draw out negotiations for the transition to the second phase indefinitely, if needed.[6] The language and removal of the time-delimited first phase makes it more difficult for Israel to resume operations to pressure Hamas and extract concessions without breaking the agreement entirely or appearing to scuttle negotiations over the transition to phase two. This could allow Hamas to secure a complete ceasefire without adhering to commitments under phases two and three, which include the release of Israeli hostages. The categories of hostages in phase two and three include Israeli soldiers, whom Hamas is reticent to release.

Get back to me when the ISW joins in the negotiations.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Get back to me when the ISW joins in the negotiations.

Lame deflection ISW a credible source

[Yellowtail]

24 minutes ago, placeholder said:

"Netanyahu’s statement, at a crucial phase ahead of the resumption of talks, sparked anger, both in Israel and among mediators, with some accusing him of attempting to sabotage hard-won progress."

Yeah, the leftists in Israel hate him. 

[placeholder]

19 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Lame deflection ISW a credible source

But they are not involved in the negotiations. 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, placeholder said:

But they are not involved in the negotiations. 

They are reporting on Hamas demands are you saying they are lying?

[placeholder]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

They are reporting on Hamas demands are you saying they are lying?

This is about the negotiations, The negotiators believe Netanyahu's remarks are hurting the negotiations. Does ISW have access to the internal workings of the negotiations?

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

This is about the negotiations, The negotiators believe Netanyahu's remarks are hurting the negotiations. Does ISW have access to the internal workings of the negotiations?

Again, your avoiding my questions:

 

42 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What issues is he raising that are outside the previous Biden/Israel deal that was endorsed by the Security Council?

 

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Again, your avoiding my questions:

 

 

Your questions are irrelevant. What don't you understand about this sentence?

"Netanyahu’s statement, at a crucial phase ahead of the resumption of talks, sparked anger, both in Israel and among mediators, with some accusing him of attempting to sabotage hard-won progress."

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Your questions are irrelevant. What don't you understand about this sentence?

"Netanyahu’s statement, at a crucial phase ahead of the resumption of talks, sparked anger, both in Israel and among mediators, with some accusing him of attempting to sabotage hard-won progress."

Hardly irrelevant, Hamas have put in place added demands to the original deal, ISW has made those clear. 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Hardly irrelevant, Hamas have put in place added demands to the original deal, ISW has made those clear. 

What don't you understand about the fact that Netanyahu's statement has been deemed counterproductive to the negotiation process?

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, placeholder said:

What don't you understand about the fact that Netanyahu's statement has been deemed counterproductive to the negotiation process?

What makes you think I have not read and understand what his statement implies. Why are you ignoring the fact that Hamas are the ones who refused the deal to start with and put in place extra demands?

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What makes you think I have not read and understand what his statement implies. Why are you ignoring the fact that Hamas are the ones who refused the deal to start with and put in place extra demands?

Apparently, the mediators don't agree with those assertions. But what is believed is that Netanyahu sabotaged the negotiations. It's amazing how much implicit trust you place in the honorable intentions of that gentleman. I don't think most Israelis share your opinion.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, placeholder said:

Apparently, the mediators don't agree with those assertions. But what is believed is that Netanyahu sabotaged the negotiations. It's amazing how much implicit trust you place in the honorable intentions of that gentleman. I don't think most Israelis share your opinion.

 So Hamas did not refuse the deal put forward by Biden then.....oh that's a new one...lol

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

 So Hamas did not refuse the deal put forward by Biden then.....oh that's a new one...lol

Keep on deflecting. The issue is about the current state of negotiations and Netanyahu throwing a spanner into the works.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, placeholder said:

Keep on deflecting. The issue is about the current state of negotiations and Netanyahu throwing a spanner into the works.

Yes I know and the Hamas stance is? Let me repeat it again for you, you seem to think this is all down to Netanyahu. Its not.

 

56 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

That did not answer my question though did it.

 

 

From ISW

 

Hamas’ most recent ceasefire position demonstrates that the group has not meaningfully shifted its position since negotiations last stalled in June and that it still seeks to undermine the agreement’s phasing. Axios reported on July 6 that the outstanding gaps between Israel and Hamas center on the language regarding and time-delimitation of negotiations to transition from the first phase of the ceasefire deal to the second phase.[4] The current proposal says that the United States, Egypt, and Qatar will “make every effort” to ensure negotiations during the first phase end in a transition to the second phase and a sustainable calm. Hamas is attempting to remove “make every effort,” replacing it with “ensure“ and dropping the original six-week time limit for the first phase.[5] This change would make the initial ceasefire effectively permanent from the start and would commit the United States, Qatar, and Egypt to securing a ceasefire and enable Hamas to draw out negotiations for the transition to the second phase indefinitely, if needed.[6] The language and removal of the time-delimited first phase makes it more difficult for Israel to resume operations to pressure Hamas and extract concessions without breaking the agreement entirely or appearing to scuttle negotiations over the transition to phase two. This could allow Hamas to secure a complete ceasefire without adhering to commitments under phases two and three, which include the release of Israeli hostages. The categories of hostages in phase two and three include Israeli soldiers, whom Hamas is reticent to release.

 

[Yellowtail]

5 hours ago, placeholder said:

Apparently, the mediators don't agree with those assertions. But what is believed is that Netanyahu sabotaged the negotiations. It's amazing how much implicit trust you place in the honorable intentions of that gentleman. I don't think most Israelis share your opinion.

 

Who is it that believes that? Why do they think that he sabotaged the negotiations, by insisting the hostages be released and refusing to surrender to Hamas? 

[Bkk Brian]

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday boasted that military pressure — including Israel’s ongoing two-month offensive in the southern Gaza city of Rafah — “is what has led Hamas to enter negotiations.”

 

Hamas, an Islamic militant group that seeks Israel’s destruction and took control of Gaza in 2007, is highly secretive and little is known about its inner workings.
But in recent internal communications seen by The Associated Press, messages signed by several senior Hamas figures in Gaza urged the group’s exiled political leadership to accept the cease-fire proposal pitched by U.S. President Joe Biden.

The messages, shared by a Middle East official familiar with the ongoing negotiations, described the heavy losses Hamas has suffered on the battlefield and the dire conditions in the war-ravaged territory. The official spoke on condition of anonymity to share the contents of internal Hamas communications.

https://archive.ph/NsXIG

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/07/08/israel-hamas-ceasefire-deal-gaza-war/b6c16634-3cf1-11ef-83bf-e35a32077d3e_story.html

 

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes I know and the Hamas stance is? Let me repeat it again for you, you seem to think this is all down to Netanyahu. Its not.

 

 

Another deflection from you. This is about mediators blaming Netanyahu for sabotaging the negotiations. Nothing to do with whether or not I think it's all down to Netanyahu,

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Another deflection from you. This is about mediators blaming Netanyahu for sabotaging the negotiations. Nothing to do with whether or not I think it's all down to Netanyahu,

What has Netanyahu done that the mediators claim has sabotaged the negotiations? 

 

And which mediators are making the claim? 

[Bkk Brian]

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Another deflection from you. This is about mediators blaming Netanyahu for sabotaging the negotiations. Nothing to do with whether or not I think it's all down to Netanyahu,

No this is about a blood thirsty group of terrorists who carried out the worst massacre of Jewish people since the holocaust. They also took around 250 hostages and since then been committing war crime's every day they hold them. They have probably raped and tortured along with murder a few, they are certainly also holding dead bodies as hostages. To imply its Netanyahu putting the spanner in the works is the just plain false. Unnamed sources from some unnamed mediators does not mean all. The US mediators have certainly not implied this

 

This is about article 14 and the US are to come up with a compromise to bridge the gap between Israel and Hamas on the issue. This has already been made clear by ISW and its also here

 

https://www.axios.com/2024/07/05/gaza-ceasefire-hostage-deal-hamas-israel-us-commitment

 

 

[Robert Paulson]

There’s new reports now that idf was killing its own people on Oct 7th under operation “Hannibal”. You can’t make this stuff up. Most moral army in the world, folks. https://archive.is/iAgIy