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Israel is at War - General discussion (pt3)

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4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

This war started when palestinians was expelled from their land, 

 

Always useful to read from more than one source what really happened l, but I really do no see any big foults with this timeline. Of course it take some interest, history knownledge, and some kind of a mind to see something from both sides

 

https://remix.aljazeera.com/aje/PalestineRemix/phone/timeline_main.html

AJ 😂😂😂😂😂😂 "see something from both sides" you seem as balanced as a drunken matelot.

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  • thaibeachlovers
    thaibeachlovers

    Let's never forget that israel came to be when Irgun and Stern gang terrorism drove the British out of Palestine, and a terrorist ( Begin ) even  became PM. Born of terrorism, and IMO still uses

  • Jeff the Chef
    Jeff the Chef

    The following is a list of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel. As of 2023, the State of Israel had been condemned in 45 resolutions by the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC).  

  • Jeff the Chef
    Jeff the Chef

    Founded in 1987, Hamas opposed the secular approach of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, rejected attempts to cede any part of Palestine, and embraced th

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Just now, Wobblybob said:

AJ 😂😂😂😂😂😂 "see something from both sides" you seem as balanced as a drunken matelot.

Really, well obviously you are ahead of me. 

 

F Monthy Python comes to mind

The writing is on the wall. Israel will get the future it deserves.

 

There is still a narrow path out of the hellscape of Gaza. A temporary ceasefire and hostage release could cause a change of Israel’s government; the rump of Hamas fighters in south Gaza could be contained or fade away; and from the rubble, talks on a two-state solution could begin, underwritten by America and its Gulf allies. It is just as likely, however, that ceasefire talks will fail. That could leave Israel locked in the bleakest trajectory of its 75-year existence, featuring endless occupation, hard-right politics and isolation. Today many Israelis are in denial about this, but a political reckoning will come eventually. It will determine not only the fate of Palestinians, but also whether Israel thrives in the next 75 years.

 

Israel’s trajectory will intensify its ethno-nationalist politics and pose legal threats to the economy. As estrangement from the West deepens, so deterrence may weaken. Firms could be blacklisted. Bosses could move high-tech businesses abroad or, if they are reservists, be arrested there.

 

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/03/21/at-a-moment-of-military-might-israel-looks-deeply-vulnerable

 

https://archive.is/EsctK

26 minutes ago, Hummin said:

@Wobblybob

 

Who founded Hamas? 

 

EU's Borrell says Israel financed creation of Gaza rulers Hamas. 

 

History repeats itself, and I did post this before, but who really cares? 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eus-borrell-says-israel-financed-creation-gaza-rulers-hamas-2024-01-19/

 

27 minutes ago, Hummin said:

@Wobblybob

 

Who founded Hamas? 

EU's Borrell says Israel financed creation of Gaza rulers Hamas. 

History repeats itself, and I did post this before, but who really cares? 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eus-borrell-says-israel-financed-creation-gaza-rulers-hamas-2024-01-19/

 

   Hamas was founded by Palestinian Iman and activist Ahmed Yassin in 1987 and was affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood . Israel cooperated with Hamas because they felt it was a better alternative than engaging with the PLO or Fatah , this was before the Hamas themselves took up terrorism 

Hamas 4th most important commander has surrendered at the Shifa Hospital, it looks like martyrdom is not for him.

 

 

The draft being put to a vote “determines” — which is a council order — “the imperative of an immediate and sustained cease-fire,” with no direct link to the release of hostages taken during Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack on Israel, which was in the previous draft. But it would unequivocally support diplomatic efforts “to secure such a cease-fire in connection with the release of all remaining hostages.”

 

https://apnews.com/article/united-nations-us-vote-gaza-ceasefire-resolution-f6453803b3eacc9fbaa2ce5a025e2a94

 

So, 2 things. Those who insisted that Blinken didn't mean a permanant ceasefire were flat out wrong.

 

And, why did the US veto previous resolutions for a ceasefire that the rest of the world knew was the right course of action only to turn around and reverse course when it became apparent that Israel were never going to abide by the orders of the ICJ.

51 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

 

   Hamas was founded by Palestinian Iman and activist Ahmed Yassin in 1987 and was affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood . Israel cooperated with Hamas because they felt it was a better alternative than engaging with the PLO or Fatah , this was before the Hamas themselves took up terrorism 

 

Rubbish. Hamas were credibly accused of terrorism long before Netanyahu embarked on his cynical campaign of divide and conquer. He incorrectly reasoned that empowering Hamas would delegitimise the PLO and give him an excuse to not have to negotiate with the PLO. His miscalculation was considering  that Hamas would never be able to conduct an attack on the scale at which they did. Netanyahu bears a great deal of responsibility for enabling the Hamas attack by his desire to avoid a negotiated settlement.

48 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Hamas 4th most important commander has surrendered at the Shifa Hospital, it looks like martyrdom is not for him.

 

 

 

   He is a 4 of hearts , or was a 4 of hearts .

Quite low down on the list of dead men walking 

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   He is a 4 of hearts , or was a 4 of hearts .

Quite low down on the list of dead men walking 

 

He'll be released under the prisoner / hostage exchange agreement.

From ‘I Love You’ to ‘<deleted>’: How Joe Gave Up on Bibi

 

After decades of building a “close, personal” friendship with Benjamin Netanyahu, Joe Biden has had it with the Israeli prime minister. Now he’s hitting him hard — and it may be working.

 

Obama wanted a freeze on construction of Israeli settlements in the West Bank to avoid depriving the Palestinians of land for a future state as U.S. special envoy George Mitchell restarted Israeli-Palestinian negotiations. But upon Biden’s arrival, Netanyahu’s government suddenly announced the construction of 1,600 new Israeli apartments in the disputed territory.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/03/22/biden-netanyahu-friendship-pressure-campaign-00148328

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Wobblybob said:

Hamas 4th most important commander has surrendered at the Shifa Hospital, it looks like martyrdom is not for him.

 

 

Fantastic news for Israel and the operation at Shifa

 

IDF: ‘Very significant’ Hamas commanders among 650 nabbed at Gaza’s Shifa hospital

image.png.03fd8a93f5d264c19d8a32b0456efe43.png

Troops have captured some 650 terror suspects, including several “very significant” senior Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad commanders, during an ongoing operation at Gaza City’s Shifa Hospital, the Israel Defense Forces and Shin Bet security agency said Thursday, as talks continued in Qatar to secure an extended truce and hostage deal.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-650-terrorists-including-hamas-officers-detained-in-shifa-hospital-raid-so-far

US to bring Security Council motion for Gaza ceasefire and hostage deal to vote Friday
Reuters says draft calls for ‘immediate and sustained ceasefire’ lasting six weeks linked to captives’ release; EU issues similar call for pause to fighting, warns against Rafah op

The draft resolution, seen by Reuters, says an “immediate and sustained ceasefire” lasting roughly six weeks would protect civilians and allow for the delivery of humanitarian assistance.

The text backs talks brokered by the U.S., Egypt and Qatar over a ceasefire and emphasizes support for using the period of a truce to intensify efforts in pursuit of “lasting peace.”

Since blocking an Algerian draft resolution calling for an “immediate humanitarian ceasefire” in Gaza at the end of February, US officials have been negotiating an alternative text focusing on support for diplomatic efforts on the ground for a six-week truce in exchange for the release of hostages.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-to-bring-security-council-motion-for-gaza-truce-and-hostage-deal-to-a-vote-friday/

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

US to bring Security Council motion for Gaza ceasefire and hostage deal to vote Friday
Reuters says draft calls for ‘immediate and sustained ceasefire’ lasting six weeks linked to captives’ release; EU issues similar call for pause to fighting, warns against Rafah op

The draft resolution, seen by Reuters, says an “immediate and sustained ceasefire” lasting roughly six weeks would protect civilians and allow for the delivery of humanitarian assistance.

The text backs talks brokered by the U.S., Egypt and Qatar over a ceasefire and emphasizes support for using the period of a truce to intensify efforts in pursuit of “lasting peace.”

Since blocking an Algerian draft resolution calling for an “immediate humanitarian ceasefire” in Gaza at the end of February, US officials have been negotiating an alternative text focusing on support for diplomatic efforts on the ground for a six-week truce in exchange for the release of hostages.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-to-bring-security-council-motion-for-gaza-truce-and-hostage-deal-to-a-vote-friday/

ooops aweful news, vetoed by Russia and China. 

 

U.S. Gaza ceasefire resolution vetoed by China, Russia at UN Security Council

Russia and China on Friday vetoed a U.S. draft UN Security Council resolution which called for an "immediate and sustained ceasefire" in Gaza along with "the release of all remaining hostages" held by Hamas.

Why it matters: This was the fourth time since the war began in October that the Security Council failed to agree on a resolution calling for a ceasefire. This time, the dispute was over the U.S. insistence on linking the ceasefire call to a hostage deal and condemnation of Hamas, rather than the unconditional ceasefire resolution demanded by Russia and China.

https://www.axios.com/2024/03/22/us-ceasefire-resolution-veto-un-security-council

 

Another huge let down for the hostages and families along with the ceasefire of course

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

ooops aweful news, vetoed by Russia and China. 

 

Another huge let down for the hostages and families along with the ceasefire of course

 

That's true. If the ceasefire had taken effect the hostages might be released soon er rather than later. As it is there's not much hope.

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

That's true. If the ceasefire had taken effect the hostages might be released soon er rather than later. As it is there's not much hope.

There's plenty of hope, just because the UN resolution was vetoed does not mean the deal being talked about now in Qatar will not happen.

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

There's plenty of hope, just because the UN resolution was vetoed does not mean the deal being talked about now in Qatar will not happen.

 

Again, true, but it was an unnecessary setback.

Why did Russia and China veto?

The Russian deputy ambassador to the UN, Dmitry Polyanskiy, warned reporters on Thursday: “We are not satisfied with anything which doesn’t call for an immediate ceasefire.”

 

After the vote, he said: “At the coordination stage, almost all security council members expressed the view that the demand for an immediate ceasefire should not be conditional on the release of hostages or the condemnation of Hamas.”

Explaining Guyana’s abstention, the South American country’s representative Carolyn Rodrigues-Birkett said: “Contrary to media reports, this resolution does not call for an immediate ceasefire.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/22/us-gaza-ceasefire-resolution-explainer

  • Author

Latest developments in the Israel-Hamas War Topic Update

 

U.S. Call for Gaza Cease-Fire Runs Into Russia-China Veto at U.N.

 

image.png

 

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken, who was traveling in Israel on Friday, expressed disappointment that the resolution failed. “I think we were trying to show the international community a sense of urgency about getting a cease-fire tied to the release of hostages, something that everyone, including the countries that vetoed the resolution, should have been able to get behind,” he said.

 

After the vote, the U.S. ambassador to the U.N., Linda Thomas-Greenfield, defended the resolution, which condemned Hamas, saying that it had been brought forward “in good faith after consulting with all Council members and after multiple rounds of edits.”


She said Russia and China had vetoed the resolution for two reasons: They refused to condemn Hamas and they “simply did not want to vote for a resolution that was penned by the United States because it would rather see us fail than to see this Council succeed.”

 

23.03.24

Source

 

In defying Joe Biden, Benjamin Netanyahu is exposing the limits of US power

 

The Israeli PM’s refusal to heed US demands on food aid for Gaza is morally indefensible, hurting the president – and opening the door to Donald Trump

 

Last month, he issued a new protocol, demanding those countries that receive US arms affirm in writing that they abide by international law, including on humanitarian aid. If the US doesn’t certify that declaration, all arms sales stop immediately. In Israel’s case, the deadline for certification is Sunday.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/22/joe-biden-benjamin-netanyahu-israel-gaza-donald-trump

 

 

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

In defying Joe Biden, Benjamin Netanyahu is exposing the limits of US power

 

The Israeli PM’s refusal to heed US demands on food aid for Gaza is morally indefensible, hurting the president – and opening the door to Donald Trump

 

Last month, he issued a new protocol, demanding those countries that receive US arms affirm in writing that they abide by international law, including on humanitarian aid. If the US doesn’t certify that declaration, all arms sales stop immediately. In Israel’s case, the deadline for certification is Sunday.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/22/joe-biden-benjamin-netanyahu-israel-gaza-donald-trump

 

 

Last month, he issued a new protocol, demanding those countries that receive US arms affirm in writing that they abide by international law, including on humanitarian aid. If the US doesn’t certify that declaration, all arms sales stop immediately. In Israel’s case, the deadline for certification is Sunday.

 

 

US official says Israel sent assurance it is using arms lawfully, days before deadline

https://www.timesofisrael.com/biden-official-says-israel-sent-assurance-it-is-using-arms-per-international-law/

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Last month, he issued a new protocol, demanding those countries that receive US arms affirm in writing that they abide by international law, including on humanitarian aid. If the US doesn’t certify that declaration, all arms sales stop immediately. In Israel’s case, the deadline for certification is Sunday.

 

 

US official says Israel sent assurance it is using arms lawfully, days before deadline

https://www.timesofisrael.com/biden-official-says-israel-sent-assurance-it-is-using-arms-per-international-law/

 

The US still needs to certify that declaration. It isn't automatic on Israel's say so.

 

The reason the US is reluctant to stop weapons transfer to Israel is the threat of Hezbollah, not support for Israel's bombing of Palestinians.

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

The US still needs to certify that declaration. It isn't automatic on Israel's say so.

 

The reason the US is reluctant to stop weapons transfer to Israel is the threat of Hezbollah, not support for Israel's bombing of Palestinians.

Can you show me where they have said they are reluctant to sign it?

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Can you show me where they have said they are reluctant to sign it?

 

Show me where I said that.

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

Try reading the link LOL

I edited already and stated the mistake, so to clarify what should have been, can you show me where (my highlights)

 

"The reason the US is reluctant to stop weapons transfer to Israel is the threat of Hezbollah, not support for Israel's bombing of Palestinians."

 

 

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

I edited already and stated the mistake, so to clarify what should have been, can you show me where (my highlights)

 

"The reason the US is reluctant to stop weapons transfer to Israel is the threat of Hezbollah, not support for Israel's bombing of Palestinians."

 

 

 

Try reading the link?

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Try reading the link?

I have, there is nothing in the link that states that.

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I have, there is nothing in the link that states that.

 

Joe Biden does not want to be the man who stopped arming Israel, not least because that would leave the country vulnerable to the mighty arsenal of Hezbollah just across the northern border with Lebanon.

 

I can interpret that as I see fit. The purpose of that sentence is to assert the major reason is the threat from Hezbollah, otherwise it would have no point. As is your usual MO, you reject any nuance at all and revert to pedantry.

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