Israel is at War - General discussion (pt3)

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, rattlesnake said:

 

I will not be dragged into a bickering session.

Because you prefer to deflect facts:

 

Israel Accused of Organ Harvesting by Group Tied to Hamas Support Network
On 29 December 2023, the Jerusalem Post reported on allegations by the Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor (Euromed) accusing Israel of harvesting organs from Hamas terrorists. These claims emerged after the Gaza Government Media Office reported that bodies returned by the IDF to Gaza were missing vital organs. Euromed cited these incidents as part of a pattern, referring to past allegations against Israel for similar actions. Despite these claims, Israeli officials have consistently denied any involvement in organ harvesting, stating that these accusations are baseless and unverified. Euromed is based in Geneva and was founded and currently chaired by Ramy Abdu, a Palestinian who has been affiliated with Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas support groups such as serving as spokesman for  the European Campaign to End the Siege on Gaza. Swiss Ennahda activist Ridha Ajmi once served as an officer. Euromed is currently headed by Richard Falk, one-time UN Special Rapporteur on Human Rights in Occupied Palestine.

https://www.global-influence-ops.com/israel-accused-of-organ-harvesting-by-group-tied-to-hamas-support-network/

[rattlesnake]

4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   UNwatch oppose Anti Semitism .

Are you in favour of their anti Semitic stance or do you oppose their Anti Semitic stance ? 

Do you stand with UNWatch on this issue ?

 

I have already explained in this thread how, IMO, the notion of antisemitism is used politically in this context. You and I disagree on the core issue and I have no interest in debating it with you now when all my points have been clearly expressed and sourced across the 70+ pages of this thread.

[Nick Carter icp]

15 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

I will not be dragged into a bickering session.

 

   You did appear to be being negative  about a group because they oppose Anti Semitism and they oppose  Anti Israel biasedness .

  So it stands to reason that you are in favour of Anti Semitism  and groups who are biased against Israel .

   *That group are appalling, they oppose Anti -Semitism* 🙂

[rattlesnake]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Because you prefer to deflect facts:

 

Israel Accused of Organ Harvesting by Group Tied to Hamas Support Network
On 29 December 2023, the Jerusalem Post reported on allegations by the Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor (Euromed) accusing Israel of harvesting organs from Hamas terrorists. These claims emerged after the Gaza Government Media Office reported that bodies returned by the IDF to Gaza were missing vital organs. Euromed cited these incidents as part of a pattern, referring to past allegations against Israel for similar actions. Despite these claims, Israeli officials have consistently denied any involvement in organ harvesting, stating that these accusations are baseless and unverified. Euromed is based in Geneva and was founded and currently chaired by Ramy Abdu, a Palestinian who has been affiliated with Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas support groups such as serving as spokesman for  the European Campaign to End the Siege on Gaza. Swiss Ennahda activist Ridha Ajmi once served as an officer. Euromed is currently headed by Richard Falk, one-time UN Special Rapporteur on Human Rights in Occupied Palestine.

https://www.global-influence-ops.com/israel-accused-of-organ-harvesting-by-group-tied-to-hamas-support-network/

 

Anything can be debated and "defended" for prolonged periods, provided one has the time to devote to it (which I don't, to be honest). So no, not deflecting, just cutting short because I have to go do other stuff. I believe my views are clear (as are yours).

 

People can read the material I refer to, as they can yours.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Anything can be debated and "defended" for prolonged periods, provided one has the time to devote to it (which I don't, to be honest). So no, not deflecting, just cutting short because I have to go do other stuff. I believe my views are clear (as are yours).

 

People can read the material I refer to, as they can yours.

No deflecting the facts brought up about Euro Med. Period. They are run by Hamas supporters and promoters of  antisemitism. Are you denying that?

[rattlesnake]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   You did appear to be being derogatory about a group because they oppose Anti Semitism and they oppose  Anti Israel biasedness .

  So it stands to reason that you are in favour of Anti Semitism  and groups who are biased against Israel .

   *That group are appalling, they oppose Anti -Semitism* 🙂

 

"Derogatory" is excessive, you are interpreting based on your knowledge of my views on this issue, which is normal. You and I could debate this all night, but that is not what I am looking for, I am content to post the occasional source which readers might find interesting.

[rattlesnake]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

No deflecting the facts brought up about Euro Med. Period. They are run by Hamas supporters and antiemetics. Are you denying that?

 

The article I posted initially about the IDF seemed pretty accurate to me. Regarding the alleged antisemitism of EuroMed, I will look into it tomorrow and get back to you. Now I really need to go.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

 

The article I posted initially about the IDF seemed pretty accurate to me. Regarding the alleged antisemitism of EuroMed, I will look into it tomorrow and get back to you. Now I really need to go.

I've already posted it, you've already read it or did you ignore all my posts, what a waste of time you are and another huge deflection

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, rattlesnake said:

 

"Derogatory" is excessive, 

 

   Fair enough , I couldn't think of a more fitting word .

Having a longer think about it , 

Maybe "Negative" would have been the better word to use .

I'll go back and change the word to "negative", if I can 

[rattlesnake]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I've already posted it, you've already read it or did you ignore all my posts, what a waste of time you are and another huge deflection

 

If you consider me to be a waste of time, you may want to consider not replying to my posts when they are not even addressed to you.

 

[Bkk Brian]

21 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

If you consider me to be a waste of time, you may want to consider not replying to my posts when they are not even addressed to you.

 

I see you had time to do that but not say if you believed Euro Med are a bunch of antisemitic Hamas supporters. Telling

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

I don't need to imagine anything. I know why they have done it. Israeli officials are on record as wanting to remove the Palestinian population out of Gaza as they believe the entirety of the land belongs to Israel. Additionally, we have seen the mass displacement caused by the indiscriminate use of high explosive bombs and wanton destruction of Palestinian homes, schools and hospitals plus the use of starvation to displace them.

 

This is clear an unequivocal ethnic cleansing and  is the reason that the ICJ has decided to take up the complaint by SA.

 

Another example of intellectually dishonest sleazy posting tactics.

Yes some Israeli officials have said such horrible things.

True.

Instead you imply that means that is Israeli government policy.

Those are two different things.

It would be like take statements from American "politicians" like Marjorie Taylor Greene and asserting they represent actual U.S. government policy.

I think it's legitimate to be very concerned that the most right wing forces in Israel will eventually prevail, but that again is very different than asserting that has already happened.

I don't know and neither do you, but I do not expect that all of the Palestinian population will be removed from Gaza, any more than the 20 percent of Arab Israeli citizens will be removed from Israel.

Please be more honest in your posting tactics and you might actually gain some credibility.

[Neeranam]

https://www.jns.org/british-lawmakers-call-to-halt-arms-sales-to-israel/

 

More than 130 MPs and peers signed a letter urging an embargo.

 

UK are going to do the right thing. Bitterly others will follow. 

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Another example of intellectually dishonest sleazy posting tactics.

Yes some Israeli officials have said such horrible things.

True.

Instead you imply that means that is Israeli government policy.

Those are two different things.

It would be like take statements from American "politicians" like Marjorie Taylor Greene and asserting they represent actual U.S. government policy.

I think it's legitimate to be very concerned that the most right wing forces in Israel will eventually prevail, but that again is very different than asserting that has already happened.

I don't know and neither do you, but I do not expect that all of the Palestinian population will be removed from Gaza, any more than the 20 percent of Arab Israeli citizens will be removed from Israel.

Please be more honest in your posting tactics and you might actually gain some credibility.

You should be a politician. You know ozimoron is correct, you don't like it so accuse him if lies. 

It is Israeli policy. 

Did you see the kids singing about taking Gaza? On Israeli state TV!! 

You know Netanyahu wants all Gazans out, stop trying to twist facts. 

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

You should be a politician. You know ozimoron is correct, you don't like it so accuse him if lies. 

It is Israeli policy. 

Did you see the kids singing about taking Gaza? On Israeli state TV!! 

You know Netanyahu wants all Gazans out, stop trying to twist facts. 

 

That horrible song on TV does NOT prove in any way whatsoever that it is official Israel government policy to clear Gaza of all Palestinians!

STOP LYING.

You know, I kind of feel that the obsessive Israeli demonization brigade WISHES their worse accusations against Israel turn out to be true so that their hatred of Israel spreads even wider than it already has.

As many have said including me, there are two wars. The war war and the propaganda war. Israel was always going to win the war war. But Hamas is winning the propaganda war. That was their aim all along.

 

To wit:

 

How the spectacle of Palestinian terrorism changed the world | The Hill

 

You don’t need to be a terrorism expert to read the tea leaves about this. Hamas welcomes the high number of dead civilians to create international condemnation of Israel. That same calculus is at work when Hamas fires rockets from hospitals, schools and apartment buildings inviting devastating Israeli responses.  

The violence of the Palestinian cause is thus one the world seems to find consistent sympathy for, despite the utter barbarism of Hamas’s strategy and tactics. A far better approach would be to actively help the Palestinian people resist Hamas’s cynical strategy to use Israel to continually “keep Palestinians radicalized . . .

[Jeff the Chef]

A look into how and why international laws and principles are being applied and ignored in the Israel-Gaza conflict. 

 

The events of October 7th sent shockwaves across the world and brought to the forefront once again a conflict that has been ongoing for 75 years. The Israeli government’s response was prompt – they embarked on a war of magnitude in Gaza claiming they needed to take out Hamas and rescue the hostages. At first the international consensus of western powers seemed solid: Israel has the right to fight back after the Hamas attack. But more than five months later, Israel's military is facing criticism worldwide, including allegations that it is committing war crimes, crimes against humanity, ethnic cleansing and even genocide.

 

This film will explore whether Israel is breaking international law; if so, why are western powers, in particular the US, silent.

 

 

[Neeranam]

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That horrible song on TV does NOT prove in any way whatsoever that it is official Israel government policy to clear Gaza of all Palestinians!

STOP LYING.

I am not lying, I say it as I see it. Why would such hatred be allowed on state TV? I really am bamboozled. 

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You know, I kind of feel that the obsessive Israeli demonization brigade WISHES their worse accusations against Israel turn out to be true so that their hatred of Israel spreads even wider than it already has.

I understand your feelings of persecution/paranoia, really, I do. But I disagree with not being able to say anything against Israel as what they are doing is terrible. 

I am not attached in any to Israelis/Jews/Gazans/Muslims, Apart from saying a Jewish prayer in the morning and listening to a podcast by Omid Safi. I am a peaceful dude somewhere between Mahayana Buddism and Hinduism. Mahayana Buddhism has lots of similarities to Judaism.  

What I say here has nothing to do with Jews, it just happens that most Israelis are Jews. 

I don't know the answers but want to hear the truth, so watch Al Jazeera, CNN, Sky new. They are all biased. 

 

 

[ozimoron]

55 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Another example of intellectually dishonest sleazy posting tactics.

Yes some Israeli officials have said such horrible things.

True.

Instead you imply that means that is Israeli government policy.

Those are two different things.

It would be like take statements from American "politicians" like Marjorie Taylor Greene and asserting they represent actual U.S. government policy.

I think it's legitimate to be very concerned that the most right wing forces in Israel will eventually prevail, but that again is very different than asserting that has already happened.

I don't know and neither do you, but I do not expect that all of the Palestinian population will be removed from Gaza, any more than the 20 percent of Arab Israeli citizens will be removed from Israel.

Please be more honest in your posting tactics and you might actually gain some credibility.

 

Those are the war cabinet. How is that not official policy? These are the extreme right wing faction that keeps Netanyahu in power and out of jail.

 

Forced displacement of even 20% of the citizens would amount to ethnic cleansing. Note that they don't want to go, that's what makes it ethnic cleansing.

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

 

That horrible song on TV does NOT prove in any way whatsoever that it is official Israel government policy to clear Gaza of all Palestinians!

STOP LYING.

You know, I kind of feel that the obsessive Israeli demonization brigade WISHES their worse accusations against Israel turn out to be true so that their hatred of Israel spreads even wider than it already has.

As many have said including me, there are two wars. The war war and the propaganda war. Israel was always going to win the war war. But Hamas is winning the propaganda war. That was their aim all along.

 

To wit:

 

How the spectacle of Palestinian terrorism changed the world | The Hill

 

You don’t need to be a terrorism expert to read the tea leaves about this. Hamas welcomes the high number of dead civilians to create international condemnation of Israel. That same calculus is at work when Hamas fires rockets from hospitals, schools and apartment buildings inviting devastating Israeli responses.  

The violence of the Palestinian cause is thus one the world seems to find consistent sympathy for, despite the utter barbarism of Hamas’s strategy and tactics. A far better approach would be to actively help the Palestinian people resist Hamas’s cynical strategy to use Israel to continually “keep Palestinians radicalized . . .

 

I suppose you didn't bother to read the Guardian article I linked yesterday which claimed that Netanyahu and his war cabinet want to relocate Palestinians out of Rafah.

 

Your wish is not my command. You have been told 10,000 times that I am not anti Jewish or anti Israeli. I despise, nay, loathe, Netanyahu and his war cabinet. That's it. You just keep circling back to this obsessive compulsion of yours to project wehat others think and feel. Disgusting. Really disgusting. Did I mention that it's disgusting?  You're starting to get under my skin to be frank. Cut it out and deal with it. Not everyone has to agree with you. We can expect that you don't personally attack everyone who disagrees with you on every post.

 

 

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

 

That horrible song on TV does NOT prove in any way whatsoever that it is official Israel government policy to clear Gaza of all Palestinians!

STOP LYING.

You know, I kind of feel that the obsessive Israeli demonization brigade WISHES their worse accusations against Israel turn out to be true so that their hatred of Israel spreads even wider than it already has.

As many have said including me, there are two wars. The war war and the propaganda war. Israel was always going to win the war war. But Hamas is winning the propaganda war. That was their aim all along.

 

To wit:

 

How the spectacle of Palestinian terrorism changed the world | The Hill

 

You don’t need to be a terrorism expert to read the tea leaves about this. Hamas welcomes the high number of dead civilians to create international condemnation of Israel. That same calculus is at work when Hamas fires rockets from hospitals, schools and apartment buildings inviting devastating Israeli responses.  

The violence of the Palestinian cause is thus one the world seems to find consistent sympathy for, despite the utter barbarism of Hamas’s strategy and tactics. A far better approach would be to actively help the Palestinian people resist Hamas’s cynical strategy to use Israel to continually “keep Palestinians radicalized . . .

 

You know what's more barbaric than killing 1,200 civilians in a terror attack? Killing 20,000 civilians by indiscriminate bombing and starving millions of others, in fact 100% of the population.

[Nick Carter icp]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

https://www.jns.org/british-lawmakers-call-to-halt-arms-sales-to-israel/

 

More than 130 MPs and peers signed a letter urging an embargo.

 

UK are going to do the right thing. Bitterly others will follow. 

 

   There are 650 UK M.P's and it was signed by 107 M.P's and there are over 800 Peers .

So, it was signed by 130 of the 1450 M.P's & peers .

What is that ? 

About  8% of M.P's and Peers who signed it ?

 

[Nick Carter icp]

On 3/23/2024 at 1:34 PM, Neeranam said:

Interesting. I know a Rabbi that is a naturalized Thai. I know Sikhhs that have got Thai citizenship by birth and get equal rights. 

Do you know know any non-Jew who got Israeli citizenship by naturalization?

Maybe @Bkk Brian does? 

 

   Is that you best friend Rabbi spiritual advisor who is now Thai ?

Did you both convert to Thai and then he converted to Jew and you thought about following him to convert to be Jewish ?

  Do you both have any plans to convert to something else ?

Cosplaying seems to be the thing nowadays 

[ozimoron]

23 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   There are 650 UK M.P's and it was signed by 107 M.P's and there are over 800 Peers .

So, it was signed by 130 of the 1450 M.P's & peers .

What is that ? 

About  8% of M.P's and Peers who signed it ?

 

 

Good, I hope they do embargo arms sales to Israel. No country should be selling arms to any country on trial for genocide.

 

[Nick Carter icp]

Israel Must Invade Rafah

No viable alternative paths exist for defeating Hamas.

 

Following the historic American abstention from the UN Security Council resolution calling for an Israel–Hamas ceasefire in Gaza for the duration of Ramadan, the West is waiting to see how the situation develops on the ground. But with Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu signaling that a full-scale invasion of Rafah to take out Hamas’s final stronghold will indeed commence, it’s worth examining what makes the United States’s abstention so significant and how it will affect Israel’s war effort, if at all.

 

 

https://www.city-journal.org/article/israel-must-invade-rafah

 

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Israel Must Invade Rafah

No viable alternative paths exist for defeating Hamas.

 

Following the historic American abstention from the UN Security Council resolution calling for an Israel–Hamas ceasefire in Gaza for the duration of Ramadan, the West is waiting to see how the situation develops on the ground. But with Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu signaling that a full-scale invasion of Rafah to take out Hamas’s final stronghold will indeed commence, it’s worth examining what makes the United States’s abstention so significant and how it will affect Israel’s war effort, if at all.

 

 

https://www.city-journal.org/article/israel-must-invade-rafah

 

 

The obvious choice is the ICJ. Israel just needs to follow the majority of countries and sign up. If the population is expelled to Egypt then Hamas will go with them, achieving exactly nothing.

[ozimoron]

 

[ozimoron]

 

[ozimoron]

 

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

Those are the war cabinet. How is that not official policy? These are the extreme right wing faction that keeps Netanyahu in power and out of jail.

 

Forced displacement of even 20% of the citizens would amount to ethnic cleansing. Note that they don't want to go, that's what makes it ethnic cleansing.

So you're being a little more honest now.

There is no current policy to have Gaza be Arab free (as Hamas policy IS a Jew free Gaza).

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   There are 650 UK M.P's and it was signed by 107 M.P's and there are over 800 Peers .

So, it was signed by 130 of the 1450 M.P's & peers .

What is that ? 

About  8% of M.P's and Peers who signed it ?

 

Yes not including those facts was a form of intentional misinformation.