War a real threat and Europe not ready, warns Poland's Tusk

[sirineou]

7 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

I have no interest in what Merkel said and if I did I cannot read your supplied link as it is behind a paywall, which is against AN rules!

Ukraine was never going to be allowed into NATO until Putin illegally invaded their sovereign country and now there is a distinct possibility.

 

and Ukraine was receiving weapon systems, NATO training and conducting joint exercises because?

[El Matador]

I get the impression many Europeans are ready to sacrifice a substantial part of Ukraine and allow the decline of the democratic world to stay in their comfort zone.

 

Well even if we submit to Putin's revendications, there will be a massive Russian defense budget in the coming years so Europe will have to match it by paying much more for its defense. People don't seem to realize we are entering in a new forced Cold War whether we like it or not, and a Russian victory will only accelerate the process.

Putin also considers the Baltic nations belong to the Russian Empire and shouldn't exist like Ukraine. So what are the European plans to protect the Baltics in case of a Trump election ?

 

Without having to send men, there could be an intermediate way to send many more weapons with some political will and some dedicated European military industry boost. The current production of shells in Europe is actually pathetic. Europe has wasted too much time in that aspect and is counting too much on its unstable partnership with the USA.

 

 

[Wobblybob]

Just now, sirineou said:

and Ukraine was receiving weapon systems, NATO training and conducting joint exercises because?

And, they are a sovereign nation, they don't need Russian permission for anything.

Why are you so pro the aggressor here?

[sirineou]

Just now, Wobblybob said:

And, they are a sovereign nation, they don't need Russian permission for anything.

Why are you so pro the aggressor here?

Cuba was a sovereign nation, was it not? 

[Wobblybob]

13 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Cuba was a sovereign nation, was it not? 

Whataboutery, disingenuous post!

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/31/2024 at 10:15 PM, rabas said:

 

After years of belligerency, covert and overt military action, lies, propaganda, and electoral  interference in major countries, Vladimir Putin starts the first major war of territorial conquest since the WW2 era brutally invading Ukraine with 100000s of troops, 1000s of tanks, committing countless war crimes.  His poorly laid out plans failing, he falls back to a bloody war of attrition along with a continual barrage of unconscionable threats to nuke major Western powers and destroy entire civilizations. His propaganda machinery echo these across the globe.  

 

Look Mom, look what NATO did!

 

and yet, he's not losing.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Cuba was a sovereign nation, was it not? 

LOL. the poster you quote has a 180 degree view of a different conflict going on as we speak.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, El Matador said:

I get the impression many Europeans are ready to sacrifice a substantial part of Ukraine and allow the decline of the democratic world to stay in their comfort zone.

Do you believe that Ukraine can win, without NATO boots ( and that is WW3? ).

 

If you think Ukraine can, I'd be keen to know why you think so. IMO it was all over when the counter offensive failed. An army fights on it's morale, and it's all bad news for Ukraine on the battlefield.

[transam]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do you believe that Ukraine can win, without NATO boots ( and that is WW3? ).

 

If you think Ukraine can, I'd be keen to know why you think so. IMO it was all over when the counter offensive failed. An army fights on it's morale, and it's all bad news for Ukraine on the battlefield.

Mr. Doom and gloom that doesn't like Ukraine, who forgot Dunkirk and what happened next...........

[Wobblybob]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do you believe that Ukraine can win, without NATO boots ( and that is WW3? ).

 

If you think Ukraine can, I'd be keen to know why you think so. IMO it was all over when the counter offensive failed. An army fights on it's morale, and it's all bad news for Ukraine on the battlefield.

Go easy on us we are not all warriors that very nearly went to Naam. 😂😂😂

[sirineou]

Arthur Schopenhauer once said, “All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; second, it is violently opposed; and third, it is accepted as self-evident.

[Wobblybob]

4 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Arthur Schopenhauer once said, “All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; second, it is violently opposed; and third, it is accepted as self-evident.

And Mark Twain said "no amount of evidence will ever convince an idiot". 😉😂😂😂

[scottiejohn]

6 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

And Mark Twain said "no amount of evidence will ever convince an idiot". 😉😂😂😂

Why do so many people appropriate quotes wrongly to mark Twain?

There is no proof he ever wrote or said it!

Mark Twain “evidence” quote is false – Australian Associated Press (aap.com.au)

[Wobblybob]

28 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Why do so many people appropriate quotes wrongly to mark Twain?

There is no proof he ever wrote or said it!

Mark Twain “evidence” quote is false – Australian Associated Press (aap.com.au)

My source says he did say it and as neither of us were there at the time to actually hear him say it so we have to go on what we read. But at the end of the day does it really matter, why do you get yourself involved with such trivialities, it does not matter John. 

 

https://www.saidit.net/s/quotes/comments/7zh9/heres_two_quote_that_perfectly_fit_the_present_era/

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, Wobblybob said:

My source says he did say it

Then please provide a link to your source!

The link you provided is meaningless and unconnected waffle IMO!

[Wobblybob]

32 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Then please provide a link to your source!

The link you provided is meaningless and unconnected waffle IMO!

Get a life! 

[rabas]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

Arthur Schopenhauer once said, “All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; second, it is violently opposed; and third, it is accepted as self-evident.

 

All information that enters your eyes and ears is inalienable, unalterable truth, except that which comes through another human.  

 

Beware especially anything coming from Putin's Russia. 

[sirineou]

6 hours ago, rabas said:

 

All information that enters your eyes and ears is inalienable, unalterable truth, except that which comes through another human.  

 

Beware especially anything coming from Putin's Russia. 

or you

[sirineou]

7 hours ago, rabas said:

All information that enters your eyes and ears is inalienable, unalterable truth, except that which comes through another human.  

I think what you just said is. 

"Everything that's comes to your seances and is true , is true.  

But I don't understand what that has to do with the quote I posted . perhaps you can explain.

This should be interesting. 

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, El Matador said:

The current production of shells in Europe is actually pathetic. Europe has wasted too much time in that aspect and is counting too much on its unstable partnership with the USA.

Who would have paid for any increase in shell production without any return? The tax payer of course.

You are asking the taxpayers, that are in a bad way already, to sacrifice so their money can be thrown into a black hole. That's very generous of you, but I doubt many others will agree with you.

[billd766]

On 3/31/2024 at 2:57 PM, retarius said:

NATO is certainly intent on provoking a war. I'm not convinced that Russia will take the bait. They want Odesa and then they are done. 

Putin's official spokesman are you?

 

Do you have a seat behind Putin at every meeting that he attends?

 

Or is it simply your opinion and words with no facts to back it up?

 

Why would he want something that is in another country that does not belong to Russia?

[Jingthing]

On 4/2/2024 at 2:16 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Do you believe that Ukraine can win, without NATO boots ( and that is WW3? ).

 

If you think Ukraine can, I'd be keen to know why you think so. IMO it was all over when the counter offensive failed. An army fights on it's morale, and it's all bad news for Ukraine on the battlefield.

Has there ever been a Kremlin talking point that you don't repeat (ad nauseum)? 

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, billd766 said:

Putin's official spokesman are you?

 

Do you have a seat behind Putin at every meeting that he attends?

 

Or is it simply your opinion and words with no facts to back it up?

 

Why would he want something that is in another country that does not belong to Russia?

He's entitled to his opinion, and can you prove he's wrong?

 

Perhaps Putin invaded Ukraine to stop them joining NATO, and not because he wants anything from them ( except the Eastern areas and Crimea and he has them now ).

[billd766]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

He's entitled to his opinion, and can you prove he's wrong?

 

Perhaps Putin invaded Ukraine to stop them joining NATO, and not because he wants anything from them ( except the Eastern areas and Crimea and he has them now ).

Of course he is entitled to his opinion.

 

However I don't have to prove that he is wrong. He has claimed this and it is up to him to prove that he is right, with links and data, in exactly the same way that you, I or anyone else who makes a claim has to do.

 

If he claims that this is his opinion only, that is what it is, simply his opinion, and needs no backup.

[RayC]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

He's entitled to his opinion, and can you prove he's wrong?

 

Perhaps Putin invaded Ukraine to stop them joining NATO, and not because he wants anything from them ( except the Eastern areas and Crimea and he has them now ).

 

Crimea and the Donbass were within Ukraine's internationally agreed borders.

 

What justification was there for Russia invading these areas?

[Wobblybob]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

He's entitled to his opinion, and can you prove he's wrong?

 

Perhaps Putin invaded Ukraine to stop them joining NATO, and not because he wants anything from them ( except the Eastern areas and Crimea and he has them now ).

He has been proven wrong time after time, nothing can penetrate his tough kevlar skin. Putin planned to overthrow the government in Kyiv, that is the reason they tried to take Kyiv and the were severely embarrassed when the Ukrainians pushed them back so easily. Stop reading TASS it will pickle your brain!