Introduction to Personal Income Tax in Thailand

[steph83]

Hi, do you know any website to calculate easily the tax amount online ?

[sometimewoodworker]

On 7/23/2024 at 9:12 PM, steph83 said:

Hi, do you know any website to calculate easily the tax amount online ?

Yes. The websites have been posted. None of them will account for every allowance available. None will take DTAs into account.

 

it is impolite to ask the same question multiple times in multiple threads

Edited July 26 by sometimewoodworker

[JimHuaHin]

On 7/22/2024 at 7:01 AM, mfd101 said:

My bank is NAB and their form doesn't give that option.

 

Don't know what the 2nd bit means. or how to fix.

I have been battling NAB for almost 3 months on why I do not have a Thai TIN.  Almost every week a new email with new requests/questions (and an occasional threat to close/suspend my account).  Requests complied with, questions answered, email replied to.   Then a week later another set of requests/quesions.  Total disarray and incompetence.

 

My other two Australia-based banks send me one email each last year about my (non existing) Thai TIN - I answered the required questions, supplied the required documents.  Thank you sir, end of story.  No more emails about Thai TIN.

[K2938]

On 4/6/2024 at 8:06 AM, Mike Lister said:

d) Employment contract (สัญญาจ้างงาน) or proof that you have tax liability in Thailand (e.g., proof of financial transactions) 

In the "Introduction to Personal Income Tax in Thailand" guide you write that one of the conditions of getting a Thai Tax Identification Number (TIN) is "Employment contract (สัญญาจ้างงาน) or proof that you have tax liability in Thailand (e.g., proof of financial transactions)".  What would be financial transactions that would qualify for getting a TIN?  Is it enough to have a Thai savings account on which some interest is paid and therefore some Thai withholding tax is deducted to get a Thai TIN?  Thank you.

[topt]

9 hours ago, K2938 said:

Is it enough to have a Thai savings account on which some interest is paid and therefore some Thai withholding tax is deducted to get a Thai TIN?  Thank you.

If you say you want a TIN to be able to reclaim tax withheld on interest then they should provide as long as you have all the information they need - and that will possibly depend on which office you go to.

[K2938]

3 hours ago, topt said:

If you say you want a TIN to be able to reclaim tax withheld on interest then they should provide as long as you have all the information they need - and that will possibly depend on which office you go to.

Thank you!  And do I assume correctly that for this it does not matter how long you have stayed in Thailand, i.e. with this argument you should be able to get a Thai TIN even if you have not stayed in Thailand more than 180 days?

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, K2938 said:

Thank you!  And do I assume correctly that for this it does not matter how long you have stayed in Thailand, i.e. with this argument you should be able to get a Thai TIN even if you have not stayed in Thailand more than 180 days?

 

Your tax residency status might prove a determining factor as to whether or not you are successful in obtaining a TIN - depending on the revenue office you deal with, as @topt has said. As stated in sub-para 85(b) of the Guide, one of the documents you'll need to bring with you when applying for a TIN is your passport, from the IMM stamps contained in which those considering your application will be able, if they wish, to determine whether or not you are a Thai tax resident.

Edited August 14 by OJAS

[sometimewoodworker]

On 8/14/2024 at 10:48 PM, K2938 said:

Thank you!  And do I assume correctly that for this it does not matter how long you have stayed in Thailand, i.e. with this argument you should be able to get a Thai TIN even if you have not stayed in Thailand more than 180 days?

If you have had tax deducted AFIK you can claim it back irrespective of your tax resident status.

 

It is certainly possible that some busy (or lazy) offices may push back and refuse to issue a TIN but if you have all the required documents and a Thai speaker with you you stand a reasonable chance of being able to persuade the official to do their job.

[chiang mai]

10 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

If you have had tax deducted AFIK you can claim it back irrespective of your tax resident status.

 

It is certainly possible that some busy (or lazy) offices may push back and refuse to issue a TIN but if you have all the required documents and a Thai speaker with you you stand a reasonable chance of being able to persuade the official to do their job.

If you are not tax resident (more than 180 days) you are not eligible to obtain a TIN or file a return to reclaim tax paid.

[anrcaccount]

On 8/7/2024 at 3:04 PM, JimHuaHin said:

I have been battling NAB for almost 3 months on why I do not have a Thai TIN.  Almost every week a new email with new requests/questions (and an occasional threat to close/suspend my account).  Requests complied with, questions answered, email replied to.   Then a week later another set of requests/quesions.  Total disarray and incompetence.

 

 

Just give NAB a 13 digit number, they will never ask again, nothing will happen.

 

[oldcpu]

On 8/7/2024 at 3:04 PM, JimHuaHin said:

I have been battling NAB for almost 3 months on why I do not have a Thai TIN. 

...

My other two Australia-based banks send me one email each last year about my (non existing) Thai TIN - I answered the required questions, supplied the required documents.  Thank you sir, end of story.  No more emails about Thai TIN.

 

If you have a Yellow-Book/Pink-ID, you could try sending them your Pink-ID # as the Thai TIN and they may accept that.

 

For my LTR visa, in order to meet the wealthy pensioner requirements category that I was applying for, I needed to buy 2-million THB in Thai government bonds. I bought these via Bangkok bank, but they insisted on a Thai TIN for the computer form application they had to fill in. They could not fill that in empty.  So at my Thai wife's suggestion, we passed to them my 13-digit Pink ID# and that was accepted (noting that Thai people's TIN is the same # as on their Thai-ID).

 

Then more recently, the Canadian Bank of Montreal (BMO) and also the Canadian Questrade financial organization (and another Canadian Organisation CI-direct) all wanted my Thai TIN for in one case unfreezing an account with a SIGNIFICANT amount of money in my account (BMO) and for the other two in opening new accounts.

 

Again, I gave them my Thai provided (foreigner) Pink-ID number. That satisfied them all. I also added a caveat that the number was currently undergoing activation. 

 

As I noted in different threads, I have via my Thai wife's help applied for a Thai tax ID (online) but thus far have not succeeded.  My wife was called by a local Thai RD official, who noted in response to a question by my wife that my Pink-ID might end up being my Thai TIN, but that my Thai TIN was not yet activated. ( I don't want to repeat here more than what I already did a couple of times in different threads.)

 

... and for the Pink-ID haters - I note this ID is NOT nominally needed, so please do not shoot the messenger (me) . I am only noted this worked instead of having an actual activated Thai TIN.

[sometimewoodworker]

On 8/17/2024 at 8:41 PM, oldcpu said:

and for the Pink-ID haters - I note this ID is NOT nominally needed, so please do not shoot the messenger (me) . I am only noted this worked instead of having an actual activated Thai TIN.

I think  you actually meant not normally needed?

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I think  you actually meant not normally needed?

I think both words work. I am not certain which is more precise in thus instance.

[anrcaccount]

On 8/17/2024 at 8:41 PM, oldcpu said:

 

If you have a Yellow-Book/Pink-ID, you could try sending them your Pink-ID # as the Thai TIN and they may accept that.

 

For my LTR visa, in order to meet the wealthy pensioner requirements category that I was applying for, I needed to buy 2-million THB in Thai government bonds. I bought these via Bangkok bank, but they insisted on a Thai TIN for the computer form application they had to fill in. They could not fill that in empty.  So at my Thai wife's suggestion, we passed to them my 13-digit Pink ID# and that was accepted (noting that Thai people's TIN is the same # as on their Thai-ID).

 

Then more recently, the Canadian Bank of Montreal (BMO) and also the Canadian Questrade financial organization (and another Canadian Organisation CI-direct) all wanted my Thai TIN for in one case unfreezing an account with a SIGNIFICANT amount of money in my account (BMO) and for the other two in opening new accounts.

 

Again, I gave them my Thai provided (foreigner) Pink-ID number. That satisfied them all. I also added a caveat that the number was currently undergoing activation. 

 

As I noted in different threads, I have via my Thai wife's help applied for a Thai tax ID (online) but thus far have not succeeded.  My wife was called by a local Thai RD official, who noted in response to a question by my wife that my Pink-ID might end up being my Thai TIN, but that my Thai TIN was not yet activated. ( I don't want to repeat here more than what I already did a couple of times in different threads.)

 

... and for the Pink-ID haters - I note this ID is NOT nominally needed, so please do not shoot the messenger (me) . I am only noted this worked instead of having an actual activated Thai TIN.

 

Many overseas banks can accept, "have not yet been provided a TIN" as a reason, in lieu of a TIN. I can see in your cases this may not have been possible. 

 

Failing that, they will accept any 13 digit number as a TIN.

 

It's a tick box exercise for the banks, don't overthink or think there is some kind of cross referencing or checking going on in these cases , there isn't. Before anyone mentions the CRS, this doesn't apply at the granular transaction level and is irrelevant to these scenarios, where the banks are simply fulfilling their requirement to determine your residency.
 

[chiang mai]

10 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Many overseas banks can accept, "have not yet been provided a TIN" as a reason, in lieu of a TIN. I can see in your cases this may not have been possible. 

 

Failing that, they will accept any 13 digit number as a TIN.

 

It's a tick box exercise for the banks, don't overthink or think there is some kind of cross referencing or checking going on in these cases , there isn't. Before anyone mentions the CRS, this doesn't apply at the granular transaction level and is irrelevant to these scenarios, where the banks are simply fulfilling their requirement to determine your residency.
 

You don't say so but I imagine what you've written is a guess or supposition rather than fact. I can't imagine that deliberately giving a bank a made up TIN from another country is lawful although I can't quantify the risk involved. As for CRS.....I read your statements some time ago where you said that the CRS threat was mostly made up by agents to install fear and gain fees, which I also think is probably assumption or opinion on your part.  It's great to have an opinion on these things and to share them, but it should be made clear that it is opinion and not fact.

[anrcaccount]

17 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

You don't say so but I imagine what you've written is a guess or supposition rather than fact. I can't imagine that deliberately giving a bank a made up TIN from another country is lawful although I can't quantify the risk involved. As for CRS.....I read your statements some time ago where you said that the CRS threat was mostly made up by agents to install fear and gain fees, which I also think is probably assumption or opinion on your part.  It's great to have an opinion on these things and to share them, but it should be made clear that it is opinion and not fact.

 

CRS reports on aggregated transactions.

 

My statements in the other thread aren't assumption or opinion.

 

Predatory 'expat' tax agencies are spreading falsehoods by stating that due to Thailand joining the CRS in 2020, individual foreign ATM transactions and foreign credit card transactions are now reportable - this is false. Read the CRS regulations, it's clear. 

[chiang mai]

4 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

 

CRS reports on aggregated transactions.

 

My statements in the other thread aren't assumption or opinion.

 

Predatory 'expat' tax agencies are spreading falsehoods by stating that due to Thailand joining the CRS in 2020, individual foreign ATM transactions and foreign credit card transactions are now reportable - this is false. Read the CRS regulations, it's clear. 

I saw where another poster mentioned that but nobody quoted where in CRS it is aaid. I think you assumed it was true and then quoted it as fact, unless you can actually quote CRS as a reference, please.

[chiang mai]

6 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

 

CRS reports on aggregated transactions.

 

My statements in the other thread aren't assumption or opinion.

 

Predatory 'expat' tax agencies are spreading falsehoods by stating that due to Thailand joining the CRS in 2020, individual foreign ATM transactions and foreign credit card transactions are now reportable - this is false. Read the CRS regulations, it's clear. 

Let me add to this:

 

I don't know if CRS reports transactions or consolidated data, I've seen reports that both are reported so I don't know which is correct. it would be good to see definitive proof of this. I also saw where the tax advisor said that ATM transactions were reported and I assumed this was true, but again, it all hinges on the answer to the CRS data question.  But what I did see is the discussion between members about this topic where you jumped from somebody's assumption and made it fact, without any proof being offered. I'm now trying to understand if you have seen something about CRS that others haven't that makes you believe what you wrote.

[anrcaccount]

4 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Let me add to this:

 

I don't know if CRS reports transactions or consolidated data, I've seen reports that both are reported so I don't know which is correct. it would be good to see definitive proof of this. I also saw where the tax advisor said that ATM transactions were reported and I assumed this was true, but again, it all hinges on the answer to the CRS data question.  But what I did see is the discussion between members about this topic where you jumped from somebody's assumption and made it fact, without any proof being offered. I'm now trying to understand if you have seen something about CRS that others haven't that makes you believe what you wrote.

The CRS does not require institutions to report at the individual level of foreign credit card transactions or ATM withdrawals.

 

I'll say it again, CRS does not report at that level. Source:  

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/FATCA_File/crs/Thailand_CRS_Guidance_280823.pdf

 

It's a long read, see page 60.

 

Also to note, if an account is opened prior to 16 August 2023 and contains less than 7.5M THB, it is exempt from being reportable. Page 49.  

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, anrcaccount said:

The CRS does not require institutions to report at the individual level of foreign credit card transactions or ATM withdrawals.

 

I'll say it again, CRS does not report at that level. Source:  

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/FATCA_File/crs/Thailand_CRS_Guidance_280823.pdf

 

It's a long read, see page 60.

 

Also to note, if an account is opened prior to 16 August 2023 and contains less than 7.5M THB, it is exempt from being reportable. Page 49.  

Thanks for the link but I don't want to read the whole thing, is there not just one paragraph that you can quote that confirms what you believe?

[topt]

2 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

Also to note, if an account is opened prior to 16 August 2023 and contains less than 7.5M THB, it is exempt from being reportable. Page 49. 

Unfortunately from reading that my belief is that only applies to an "Entity" - not individual people.

See here - https://www.oecd.org/content/dam/oecd/en/topics/policy-issue-focus/aeoi/crs_entities_self-cert_form.pdf

Quote

“Entity” The term “Entity” means a legal person or a legal arrangement, such as a corporation, organisation, partnership, trust or foundation. This term covers any person other than an individual (i.e. a natural person).

 

With regards to credit card/ATM level I would tend to agree but have not read anything in even the OECD CRS guidance that categorically refers to this. However at the moment it would seem a stretch to think that all of that individual data would be reported. The CRS guidance seems to always talk about total numbers not individual.

 

Thanks for the Thai RD link - I am amazed that they have it in English 

[topt]

16 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Thanks for the link but I don't want to read the whole thing, is there not just one paragraph that you can quote that confirms what you believe?

Go to page 61 in that link. It does not specifically mention CC or ATM but talks about reporting "gross amount" or "gross proceeds" and from an earlier page it is only reportable as a year end amount.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, topt said:

Go to page 61 in that link. It does not specifically mention CC or ATM but talks about reporting "gross amount" or "gross proceeds" and from an earlier page it is only reportable as a year end amount.

Thanks, it looks like I have to do some reading 

[topt]

If you are Canadian, and interested...... I came across this.

One section says certain "pensions" are "Ëxcludable"........however I did not fully read up.

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/enhanced-financial-account-information-reporting/reporting-sharing-financial-account-information-other-jurisdictions/guidance-on-common-reporting-standard-part-income-tax-act.html#_Toc475109513

[topt]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

Thanks, it looks like I have to do some reading 

Some more for you 

 

This is a user guide for the information that needs to be input - page 250 (in the document) shows amounts - but again can find no mention of CC's.

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/9789264216525-10-en.pdf?expires=1724127149&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=A5BBC1159A96994517D898FDAA62D2CD

 

The whole issue of CC reporting is confusing to me but I may just be goggle eyed from trying to read too much.

The OECD CRS documents talk about "Non reporting financial institutions" so I am not sure if it is possible that some credit card issuers don't actually report........

https://web-archive.oecd.org/tax/automatic-exchange/common-reporting-standard/common-reporting-standard-and-related-commentaries/index.htm

left hand scrollable column page 48.

Further down it then says -

 

Quote

Subparagraph B(8) – Qualified Credit Card Issuer 42. Subparagraph B(8) defines the term “Qualified Credit Card Issuer” as a Financial Institution satisfying the following requirements: a) the Financial Institution is a Financial Institution solely because it is an issuer of credit cards that accepts deposits only when a customer makes a payment in excess of a balance due with respect to the card and the overpayment is not immediately returned to the customer; and b) beginning on or before [xx/xx/xxxx], the Financial Institution implements policies and procedures either to prevent a customer from making an overpayment in excess of USD 50 000, or to ensure that any customer overpayment in excess of USD 50 000 (and of the balance due with respect to the card) is refunded to the customer within 60 calendar days, in each case applying the rules set forth in paragraph C of Section VII for account aggregation and currency translation. For this purpose, a customer overpayment does not refer to credit balances to the extent of disputed charges but does include credit balances resulting from merchandise returns.

And also available here page 169 in their document- 

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/9789264216525-7-en.pdf?expires=1724126520&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=C8F07F24AB6C61890622E26926F6937E

 

At the moment I cannot see any way they would be asked to report by transaction and I am confused by the terminology as to whether some may not report at all........

 

 

 

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, topt said:

Some more for you 

 

This is a user guide for the information that needs to be input - page 250 (in the document) shows amounts - but again can find no mention of CC's.

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/9789264216525-10-en.pdf?expires=1724127149&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=A5BBC1159A96994517D898FDAA62D2CD

 

The whole issue of CC reporting is confusing to me but I may just be goggle eyed from trying to read too much.

The OECD CRS documents talk about "Non reporting financial institutions" so I am not sure if it is possible that some credit card issuers don't actually report........

https://web-archive.oecd.org/tax/automatic-exchange/common-reporting-standard/common-reporting-standard-and-related-commentaries/index.htm

left hand scrollable column page 48.

Further down it then says -

 

And also available here page 169 in their document- 

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/9789264216525-7-en.pdf?expires=1724126520&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=C8F07F24AB6C61890622E26926F6937E

 

At the moment I cannot see any way they would be asked to report by transaction and I am confused by the terminology as to whether some may not report at all........

 

 

 

Thank you for making the effort to try and clarify matters. Before I or anyone else starts to spend a lot of time reading, I think the onus is on @anrcaccount to help by pointing us at the part of that lengthy document that helped him arrive at his very firm conclusions. I also think we need to understand whether he believes what he does, because of what the document does say or what it doesn't say. For example, does the document say that ATM and CC transactions are excluded or is that it doesn't say they are included? 

[topt]

5 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Thank you for making the effort to try and clarify matters. Before I or anyone else starts to spend a lot of time reading, I think the onus is on @anrcaccount to help by pointing us at the part of that lengthy document that helped him arrive at his very firm conclusions. I also think we need to understand whether he believes what he does, because of what the document does say or what it doesn't say. For example, does the document say that ATM and CC transactions are excluded or is that it doesn't say they are included? 

I read through most of the OECD CRS stuff many months ago and I do not remember seeing anything about ATM transactions. They should either fall within the overall bank account reporting or CC total figures - if reported.

I just don't see from all I have read anything that says they drill down to a transaction level on ongoing spends. 

 

To be clear I am talking about international CRS reporting - not what the Thai banks may report to BOT

[anrcaccount]

9 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Thank you for making the effort to try and clarify matters. Before I or anyone else starts to spend a lot of time reading, I think the onus is on @anrcaccount to help by pointing us at the part of that lengthy document that helped him arrive at his very firm conclusions. I also think we need to understand whether he believes what he does, because of what the document does say or what it doesn't say. For example, does the document say that ATM and CC transactions are excluded or is that it doesn't say they are included? 

 

Sorry, the onus is on you to read my post and then read the document.

 

As I said, Page 60. It defines the financial information reported, which is not at an individual transaction level.

 

While you are there, I suggest you read the preceding and following pages to page 60, to give more context.

 

[Presnock]

On 8/14/2024 at 10:09 AM, K2938 said:

In the "Introduction to Personal Income Tax in Thailand" guide you write that one of the conditions of getting a Thai Tax Identification Number (TIN) is "Employment contract (สัญญาจ้างงาน) or proof that you have tax liability in Thailand (e.g., proof of financial transactions)".  What would be financial transactions that would qualify for getting a TIN?  Is it enough to have a Thai savings account on which some interest is paid and therefore some Thai withholding tax is deducted to get a Thai TIN?  Thank you.

the Thai revenue dept says one that has assessable income remitted from overseas, business or whatever and is tax liable

must obtain a thai Tax ID number within 60 days of having the assessable income  Can be found in Tax Identification: Thai revenue depat.  Spells it out clearly 

[chiang mai]

Just now, anrcaccount said:

 

Sorry, the onus is on you to read my post and then read the document.

 

As I said, Page 60. It defines the financial information reported, which is not at an individual transaction level.

 

While you are there, I suggest you read the preceding and following pages to page 60, to give more context.

 

If you can't provide a simple quote or quotes to support your statements, I can't believe that any exist, sorry but that's the way I view things. Pushing responsibility for reading the document to identify the statements that resonated with you, onto us, isn't something that's either sensible or logical. Perhaps we simply leave the issue open, pending further clarification by sources or people unknown at this point.