Introduction to Personal Income Tax in Thailand

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Yes lol but some figures do not add up but who knows still early 

E,g.?

[jwest10]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

E,g.?

 

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

E,g.?

Just the top figures  but must be me and mine is quite straight forward lol

 

[jwest10]

Just now, jwest10 said:

 

Just the top figures  but must be me and mine is quite straight forward lol

 

Where the 193k figure that is all fc and thanks

[jwest10]

11 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Yes lol but some figures do not add up but who knows still early and yes the pension figure but how you get to 193K nut mai pen rai mate thanks again for your help

on behalf of others too

 

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Where the 193k figure that is all fc and thanks

193K is 70% of 276k, for info purposes and not used in any calc.

[Ricohoc]

Quote

TAX FILING ELLEGIBILITY 

 

87) “All persons earning income are required to file a tax return no later than 31 March of the following year for hard-copy filing and 8 April for on-line filing, except for individuals whose income from employment is THB 120,000 or less (for single persons) or THB 220,000 or less (for married persons) and in the case of having income from other sources (with or without employment income) of THB 60,000 or less (for single persons) or THB 120,000 or less (for married persons)”.  

 

 

Am I to understand that if the individual calculates that they owe NO tax that they do NOT have to file a return?

 

Thanks.

[sometimewoodworker]

5 minutes ago, Ricohoc said:

 

 

Am I to understand that if the individual calculates that they owe NO tax that they do NOT have to file a return?

 

Thanks.

That depends on who you talk to.

Talk to a lawyer or to a poster who’s name is from the north of Thailand  and they will say you must still file a tax return 

Talk to a TRD officer (the ones who accept tax returns) or a tax consultant and and they will say “no tax due, no tax refund due, do not file a tax return”

I know who I believe. You do you TIT YMMV

[Presnock]

25 minutes ago, Ricohoc said:

 

 

Am I to understand that if the individual calculates that they owe NO tax that they do NOT have to file a return?

 

Thanks.

just reading from the thai revenue dept website, I blv it says if one has assessable income they are to obtain a Thai tax id number and fill out the tax forms and (quoting fm the RD page) pay tax if any.  Sounds to me like they want one to file even if there is no tax owed.  After that quote, the rd provides everything about income and charts for taxes , etc.  I for one will have NO ASSESSABLE income so I will not obtain a tax id number unless they change that rule and thus will not file any tax forms.  Just saying, one can easily go to the Thai revenue department website (ENGLISH) and read for themselves.   Good luck on your tax situation whatever it may be.

[chiang mai]

32 minutes ago, Ricohoc said:

 

 

Am I to understand that if the individual calculates that they owe NO tax that they do NOT have to file a return?

 

Thanks.

The TRD rules say that you must file a return, if you have income over the minimum assessible income threshold which is either 60k, 129k or 220k, based on marital status and income type, regardless of whether you owe tax or not. If you do not file a return when you should have, there are penalties that can be levied and these are draconian if tax was due.

 

In practise, there is no evidence that penalties are levied, that's to say we are not aware of anyone who has ever been penalised.

 

You must decide what you want to do in this respect.

[chiang mai]

30 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That depends on who you talk to.

Talk to a lawyer or to a poster who’s name is from the north of Thailand  and they will say you must still file a tax return 

Talk to a TRD officer (the ones who accept tax returns) or a tax consultant and and they will say “no tax due, no tax refund due, do not file a tax return”

I know who I believe. You do you TIT YMMV

There is no need to personalise this issue SWW and I strongly object to you doing so. A straight forward legitimate question was asked, a straight forward simple answer is all that's required, without the need for personal digs and commentary.

[Presnock]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

There is no need to personalise this issue SWW and I strongly object to you doing so. A straight forward legitimate question was asked, a straight forward simple answer is all that's required, without the need for personal digs and commentary.

CM - if you plan on ever answering anyone or commenting on anything here, seems like there is always someone that seems offended though in about 99.9% of the cases, we are only providing our opinion on something.  I sure don't know why they get offended when you are only providing what you know or have read.  Just like this taxation subject... folks can easily google the Thai Revenu Dept website and it is in English if one desires so and they can read just what we tell them that we have read there.  I too don't understand why if one has no tax due they have to file the tax forms and some say that if one goes to a RD local office they will say you don't have to file if you owe nothing but the website does indicate a fine is possible if one doesn't file but has assessable income even though it is below the necessary minimum for filing - based on logic but TIT and we all know that means it is what the locals say it means, not what the ENGLISH says.  Take care, hopefully when the new forms come out, they will either have a place for no tax due to exemptions or below the levels necessary and a change in the RD website to make things clearer - Yes, I know I am dreaming!

[chiang mai]

51 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

The TRD rules say that you must file a return, if you have income over the minimum assessible income threshold which is either 60k, 129k or 220k, based on marital status and income type, regardless of whether you owe tax or not. If you do not file a return when you should have, there are penalties that can be levied and these are draconian if tax was due.

 

In practise, there is no evidence that penalties are levied, that's to say we are not aware of anyone who has ever been penalised.

 

You must decide what you want to do in this respect.

Late edit: should read, 120k, not 129k

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

There is no need to personalise this issue SWW and I strongly object to you doing so

So indirect possible personalisation when you assume it is of you, to highlight a post made is bad!

But direct negative aspersions from yourself are OK. Hypocritical much.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

So indirect possible personalisation when you assume it is of you, to highlight a post made is bad!

But direct negative aspersions from yourself are OK. Hypocritical much.

Goodbye

[Unamerican]

On 10/3/2024 at 1:38 PM, chiang mai said:

you can take your numbers to the local Revenue office

Maybe, but how does one know what “my numbers” are exactly ?   Both the category and value!   This is exttememly difficult for normal British tax-payers since they never have to fill up any tax forms or pay anything: it is all worked out by the Inland Revenue and collected via the PAYE system directly from all the income providers. 

[chiang mai]

Just now, Unamerican said:

Maybe, but how does one know what “my numbers” are exactly ?   Both the category and value!   This is exttememly difficult for normal British tax-payers since they never have to fill up any tax forms or pay anything: it is all worked out by the Inland Revenue and collected via the PAYE system directly from all the income providers. 

I'm a Brit and I have to work out my UK numbers for many categories, savings interest income, rental income and investment income, it's not difficult to do if you contact the companies you do business with. Plus I have to do a self assessment every year, don't you?

 

 

[chiang mai]

9 minutes ago, Unamerican said:

Maybe, but how does one know what “my numbers” are exactly ?   Both the category and value!   This is exttememly difficult for normal British tax-payers since they never have to fill up any tax forms or pay anything: it is all worked out by the Inland Revenue and collected via the PAYE system directly from all the income providers. 

OK, sounds like you work and your employer takes care of everything for you. You will have an HMRC tax account, you need to find that number and log onto it using the HMRC Tax Gateway and you'll see your numbers. Understand?

[marino28]

On 10/9/2024 at 9:52 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

That depends on who you talk to.

Talk to a lawyer or to a poster who’s name is from the north of Thailand  and they will say you must still file a tax return 

Talk to a TRD officer (the ones who accept tax returns) or a tax consultant and and they will say “no tax due, no tax refund due, do not file a tax return”

I know who I believe. You do you TIT YMMV

 

If I understand correctly, if a person receives interest income above 60,000 THB per year, they should file a tax return.

 

This would result in receiving a refund.

 

If a person does nothing, in the end, the state saves money since it doesn’t have to issue the refund.

 

However, if I understand correctly, theoretically, a person could receive a fine of 2,000 THB for not filing the return. I assume that, in that case, one would have to file the return, pay the 2,000 THB fine, and then receive the refund.

 

Is what I’m writing correct? Thank you.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, marino28 said:

 

If I understand correctly, if a person receives interest income above 60,000 THB per year, they should file a tax return.

 

This would result in receiving a refund.

 

If a person does nothing, in the end, the state saves money since it doesn’t have to issue the refund.

 

However, if I understand correctly, theoretically, a person could receive a fine of 2,000 THB for not filing the return. I assume that, in that case, one would have to file the return, pay the 2,000 THB fine, and then receive the refund.

 

Is what I’m writing correct? Thank you.

Failure to file when a refund of tax on interest is due, forfeit s the refund and no return is required, as long as that is the only source of income

[sometimewoodworker]

5 minutes ago, marino28 said:

 

If I understand correctly, if a person receives interest income above 60,000 THB per year, they should file a tax return.

 

This would result in receiving a refund.

 

If a person does nothing, in the end, the state saves money since it doesn’t have to issue the refund.

 

However, if I understand correctly, theoretically, a person could receive a fine of 2,000 THB for not filing the return. I assume that, in that case, one would have to file the return, pay the 2,000 THB fine, and then receive the refund.

 

Is what I’m writing correct? Thank you.

You haven’t give enough information.

who is paying the interest, where is it being paid, are you being taxed on the interest being paid.

 

If you are receiving interest in Thailand from a bank they will be deducting tax.

if you want to get the tax paid back and you have less than the tax free allowance you can receive all the interest paid.

 

 

[marino28]

Receive money from Thai bank and they already take the tax 

Edited October 10 by marino28

[RupertIII]

My bank interest payments from Thai banks has w/h deducted, my wife's, I believe, is paid gross. 

 

I don't want to produce an annual income for this year in excess (nor much below) of the non-taxable amount (565K in my instance) so when adding interest rec'd into the total should I use net figures for mine and gross for my wife's or net or gross for both?  I can then calculate how much I can remit from overseas just prior to year end. Thanks.

[chiang mai]

23 minutes ago, RupertIII said:

My bank interest payments from Thai banks has w/h deducted, my wife's, I believe, is paid gross. 

 

I don't want to produce an annual income for this year in excess (nor much below) of the non-taxable amount (565K in my instance) so when adding interest rec'd into the total should I use net figures for mine and gross for my wife's or net or gross for both?  I can then calculate how much I can remit from overseas just prior to year end. Thanks.

I believe gross for both and then show separately the tax already paid. Your bank letter will show the right gross amount s

Edited October 10 by chiang mai

[RupertIII]

21 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I believe gross for both and then show separately the tax already paid. Your bank letter will show the right gross amount s

Thanks Chiang Mai. In any event probably better below rather than over, less hassle and bureaucracy I would guess. I believe the online bank statements also show gross and also w/h tax deducted

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, marino28 said:

Receive money from Thai bank and they already take the tax 

@marino28 If you want to reclaim the tax paid you must file a tax return. If your assessable income is under the limit for paying tax you will receive all the tax you have paid as a refund. There is no minimum amount you can claim, I received a refund of about 300+ baht a few years ago. I haven’t bothered to reclaim the tax paid on the  interest for several years as it was not worth bothering about.

 

Note: the total interest, including tax, must be declared when filing a tax return, it is certainly possible that you will receive no refund if you have enough assessable income. 
 

TIT YMMV.

Edited October 10 by sometimewoodworker

[chiang mai]

The rules on savings interest WHT vary based on the bank and the savings product, the rules are shown in the link below:

 

https://sherrings.com/interest-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

[jwest10]

On 10/8/2024 at 3:21 PM, chiang mai said:

193K is 70% of 276k, for info purposes and not used in any calc.

Thanks so much for your very valuable input indeed.
We are still being told to wait, if and when the new tax forms are out and the Income Exemption Entitlement  Form and my income less than my allowances 560k or more.

Indeed, I have been told by the local Tax Office that due to my circumstances and would at most require the PND 90 form, as I have no employment but of course, it depends who one talks to.
Yes, explained that I have a 15-digit pink ID  card and had to go through various steps to get this and yes again told I could use it, if and when the forms are needed.

I wonder if and when these forms are produced and if we can get them from our local office but been told to wait until further official communication but will not hold my breath.

Finally, I have certain pensions which are taxed in the UK and yes the UK date of income tax is different  and have P60s up to April 24 and will not use the figures in my tax form if and when required

Thoughts and I am not missing anything, am I?
Thoughts and thanks
John w
 







 

Edited October 10 by jwest10

[chiang mai]

8 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Thanks so much for your very valuable input indeed.
We are still being told to wait, if and when the new tax forms are out and the Income Exemption Entitlement  Form and my income less than my allowances 560k or more.

Indeed, I have been told by the local Tax Office that due to my circumstances and would at most require the PND 90 form, as I have no employment but of course, it depends who one talks to.
Yes, explained that I have a 15-digit pink ID  card and had to go through various steps to get this and yes again told I could use it, if and when the forms are needed.

I wonder if and when these forms are produced and if we can get them from our local office but been told to wait until further official communication but will not hold my breath.

Finally, I have certain pensions which are taxed in the UK and yes the UK date of income tax is different  and have P60s up to April 24 and will not use the figures in my tax form if and when required

Thoughts and I am not missing anything, am I?
Thoughts and thanks
John w
 







 

Relax, everyone is in the same boat, be patient and wait and see what transpires next month.

[jwest10]

10 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Relax, everyone is in the same boat, be patient and wait and see what transpires next month.

Yes and thanks tc

[sometimewoodworker]

14 hours ago, jwest10 said:

Finally, I have certain pensions which are taxed in the UK and yes the UK date of income tax is different  and have P60s up to April 24 and will not use the figures in my tax form if and when required

Thoughts and I am not missing anything, am I?

Well yes you are.

If you remitted any of your U.K. taxed pensions to Thailand and you have determined that your assessable income remitted to Thailand that you received after 1/1/1024 has anything paid to you after  1/1/1024 that is assessable by the TRD (most U.K. pensions ARE assessable by the TRD) and you have determined that the total assessable remittances is over 60,000 baht (non married )  then according to the letter of the Thai revenue code you are required to submit a tax return.

 

If you decide that you are going to submit a Thai tax return then you must include the U.K. non government service pensions amounts in your Thai tax return. That you have paid U.K. tax on those pensions is irrelevant to the requirement to include them on your tax return. The U.K. Thai DTC allows you to offset U.K. tax paid on the amounts remitted against Thai tax due

 

the effect is that pensions paid since 1/1/2024 are assessable in Thailand if remitted U.K. tax paid on those pensions amounts can be offset against Thai tax due.

 

since you have decided that you are going to follow the the letter of the Thai revenue code not the practice that TRD officials actually use, then you must declare all U.K. non government service pensions amounts in your Thai tax return.

 

NB there is nothing suggested that changes anything above. 
The only thing that would change anything is if there is TRD guidance that codifies the actual practice of ignoring the letter of the Thai revenue code not that there is a snowballs chance in hell that that will happen. BUT TIT YMMV