Introduction to Personal Income Tax in Thailand

[chiang mai]

15 minutes ago, Unamerican said:

Maybe, but difficult to know this when the acronym is unknown to many of us!  Where does it come from? 

Note that the only response that was in fact needed was an  explanation that it is the acronym for: 

TAX EXEMPTIONS DEDUCTIONS & ALLOWANCES

Which is far more understandable than TEDA.

 

So “thanks, but not an at all useful response”! 

On the first page of the document I pointed you at, it says this:

 

TAX EXEMPTIONS DEDUCTIONS & ALLOWANCES (TEDA) 

 

So I think my response was useful and I did answer your question!

[Unamerican]

18 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I think my response was useful and I did answer your question!

Think away!  I am sure that everything you do is totally perfect . . . in your eyes!   

 

So very, very, very many thanks for your  totally perfect reply . . .  which could readily have simply been writing out the full form of the acronym!

 

One more thought, maybe simply decoding the acronym would have made it into a superb,  totally complete, and excellent answer . . . maybe??? 

Edited November 13 by Unamerican

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Unamerican said:

Think away!  I am sure that everything you do is totally perfect . . . in your eyes!   

 

So very, very, very many thanks for your  totally perfect reply . . .  which could readily have simply been writing out the full form of the acronym!

 

One more thought, maybe simply decoding the acronym would have made it into a superb,  totally complete, and excellent answer . . . maybe??? 

Welcome to my ignore list, bye.

[anrcaccount]

On 11/12/2024 at 3:56 PM, chiang mai said:

It has been widely acknowledged in many of the video's and interviews I have seen it said several times that TRD HQ has done a poor job of communicating to the regions 

 

Do not agree this is 'widely acknowledged'. Consider, this may be simply intentional, and there is nothing new to communicate.

 

If the TRD was even remotely serious about collecting/enforcing foreign remitted income for the 100's of 1000's of expats who have never paid it before, they would need to do a lot more than publish 2 internal directives, & 1 infographic.
 

[chiang mai]

Just now, anrcaccount said:

 

Do not agree this is 'widely acknowledged'. Consider, this may be simply intentional, and there is nothing new to communicate.

 

If the TRD was even remotely serious about collecting/enforcing foreign remitted income for the 100's of 1000's of expats who have never paid it before, they would need to do a lot more than publish 2 internal directives, & 1 infographic.
 

If I said it was November 2024, you'd disagree, I've been conditioned to realise this is true.

[chiang mai]

10 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Do not agree this is 'widely acknowledged'. Consider, this may be simply intentional, and there is nothing new to communicate.

 

If the TRD was even remotely serious about collecting/enforcing foreign remitted income for the 100's of 1000's of expats who have never paid it before, they would need to do a lot more than publish 2 internal directives, & 1 infographic.
 

TRD changed one simple rule regarding remittances, the implications of the change are that foreign tax resident no longer have a loop hole through which to avoid Thai tax on remittances.  The rule change  was widely broadcast and is simple enough to understand, even for dullards and those people who are not tax savvy.

 

Put yourself in TRDs shoes, what more can you reasonably expect TRD to feel the need to do. What justification is there for TRD to pander to the anxieties and insecurities of the foreign community? The Revenue rules are there, in English and there's lots of ways you can get assistance with tax. International and local tax consultants operate here and English is widely spoken. 100's of 1000's of foreigners may not have paid Thai tax before but they know what tax is and they've certainly paid it in their home country, this is not something that is uniquely Thai that they've never heard of before. 

 

Many foreigners were required to file tax returns before the rule change but didn't, because they didn't think it applied to them! Now, many more foreigners are required to file tax returns, I'm pretty certain that fewer people will ignore the need this time around!!  

 

The private sector picked up on the potential for increased tax consultancy fees and has marketed their tax advisory services by providing tax information, aggressively....social media is awash with information on the subject. What exactly could TRD do to reinforce the message that they're serious about this, perhaps take out half page ads in the Bangkok Post saying, we're not joking!

 

No, this is your problem, not the TRD's. If you're expecting a last minute change of heart or for this whole business to go silent and die a death, you are grasping at straws. And those people who are waiting for personalised letters to appear in the mail giving individual instructions regarding what to do, well, words fail me on this point.

[Yumthai]

11 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Many foreigners were required to file tax returns before the rule change but didn't, because they didn't think it applied to them! Now, many more foreigners are required to file tax returns, I'm pretty certain that fewer people will ignore the need this time around!!  

Without doubt there will be increasingly more foreigner residents who will file a tax return thanks to because of the scaremongering propaganda pushed here and there. Still, in my opinion, the big majority of this population will not be making themselves aware to the TRD, awaiting to see concrete tax enforcement (audit + penalties) broadly happening to individuals in the real world.

[chiang mai]

6 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Without doubt there will be increasingly more foreigner residents who will file a tax return thanks to because of the scaremongering propaganda pushed here and there. Still, in my opinion, the big majority of this population will not be making themselves aware to the TRD, awaiting to see concrete tax enforcement (audit + penalties) broadly happening to individuals in the real world.

To summarise, many wont follow the law, until such time as it becomes too high risk not to.....gottit.

 

Some people won't want to wait that long, I suspect!

 

Plus I suspect that if there is not a decent voluntary take up initially, that will only accelerate the inevitable, which could easily be draconian measures associated with visa's. Ask your self, what would you do in their shoes.

[Yumthai]

8 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

To summarise, many wont follow the law, until such time as it becomes too high risk not to.....gottit.

This is where we differ. Unlike you, my tax enforcement risk assessment is low.

 

9 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Some people won't want to wait that long, I suspect!

Agreed. I suspect "some will" is more important than "some won't".

 

9 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Plus I suspect that if there is not a decent voluntary take up initially, that will only accelerate the inevitable, which could easily be draconian measures associated with visa's. Ask your self, what would you do in their shoes.

If I were in their shoes and want my country grows, I won't try to enforce foreign sourced income tax on temporary foreigner residents as it's as unfair as totally economically unproductive.

[scottiejohn]

18 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

To summarise, many wont follow the law, until such time as it becomes too high risk not to.....gottit.

 

Some people won't want to wait that long, I suspect!

 

Plus I suspect that if there is not a decent voluntary take up initially, that will only accelerate the inevitable, which could easily be draconian measures associated with visa's. Ask your self, what would you do in their shoes.

A pointless speculative post!

I thought this thread was about "FACTS"!

[chiang mai]

5 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

A pointless speculative post!

I thought this thread was about "FACTS"!

No, you are very confused if you think that. At the top of the thread is this, "Posts made by individuals reflect their own opinions and should not be taken as fact". Let me know if you need further help.

[chiang mai]

21 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

This is where we differ. Unlike you, my tax enforcement risk assessment is low.

 

Agreed. I suspect "some will" is more important than "some won't".

 

If I were in their shoes and want my country grows, I won't try to enforce foreign sourced income tax on temporary foreigner residents as it's as unfair as totally economically unproductive.

If none of these threads had taken place, everyone would know far less than they do today. But because they did take place, people can make informed decisions about they think they should do. Either way, everyone would arrive at the same point eventually, one way is with the benefit of knowledge and time, the other is reactive and in a rush and panic. 

 

Tell me, in what country that you've lived in is tax enforcement not a significant risk and why do you think that Thailand should be any different!

[JimGant]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

in what country that you've lived in is tax enforcement not a significant risk and why do you think that Thailand should be any different!

You're right. In the US, if you owe taxes, but don't pay, or under pay, you're subject to fines. If, however, you've overwithheld on your income, or over paid estimated taxes -- and thus don't owe any taxes -- you're free not to file a tax return (unless some of your income is from self-employment). This is why I've got it set up, that when I die, the withholding on the income going to my wife will have a sufficient overwithholding pad to mean she owes no taxes. Thus, dear, you don't need to file anything. And that lost $400 in overwithholding is about what you'd have to pay to hire a US tax guy here in Thailand -- a nice wash, with no effort. The IRS will know, by her 1099s, what was withheld, and what was thus not owed. And the pad I've built in will cover any interest earned here in Thailand, which, of course, wouldn't have a 1099.

 

For Thai taxes? Right now, her retirement income would be assessable, if remitted. But it's not remitted -- it's reinvested in the US. But, if we go to worldwide taxation, it would become taxable by Thailand -- and it exceeds 60,000 (the magic number for supposedly needing to file). But, after TEDA, it would be 400,000 short of being taxable income, i.e., no taxes owed, no tax evasion occurring. So, dear -- don't worry about filing a Thai tax return either.

 

So, yeah, "tax enforcement is a significant risk" -- if you OWE taxes. If not, don't bother to file, unless you want the overwithholding refunded. Another case of "common sense." But, just to be safe -- I'll have my ashes scattered on the TRD parking lot.

 

But, flippancy aside -- I really believe my tax plan for my wife -- who would be completely lost, even in gathering forms to give to a tax accountant -- is sound -- because if you don't owe any taxes, you haven't evaded taxation. Thus, no law infringement. And -- at least in the US -- there are absolutely no penalties for not filing, if no taxes owed (except self-employed). Thailand? Maybe an unlikely 2000 baht fine. Ho hum. 

[anrcaccount]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

1 hour ago, Yumthai said:

This is where we differ. Unlike you, my tax enforcement risk assessment is low.

 

Agreed. I suspect "some will" is more important than "some won't".

 

If I were in their shoes and want my country grows, I won't try to enforce foreign sourced income tax on temporary foreigner residents as it's as unfair as totally economically unproductive.

If none of these threads had taken place, everyone would know far less than they do today. But because they did take place, people can make informed decisions about they think they should do. Either way, everyone would arrive at the same point eventually, one way is with the benefit of knowledge and time, the other is reactive and in a rush and panic. 

 

No, 'everyone' wouldn't arrive at the same point eventually. 

 

These threads, or similarly trusting the advice/consultancy of 'expat' tax advisors (which is apparently technically illegal)  have caused some people to:

 

Firstly, waste their time & energy - by trying to self file and in many cases being denied even getting a TIN.

Secondly, next year when/if they do manage to file DIY, or one of the (IMO predatory) agencies does it for them - they have wasted their money. 
 

Those who didn't read them, continue to not file, as they have not filed for many years, with no consequences, and have not wasted their time nor money. 

 

 

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

Tell me, in what country that you've lived in is tax enforcement not a significant risk and why do you think that Thailand should be any different!

 

Thailand has had minimal/no tax enforcement on foreigners for many years despite many technically being liable.

 

There is no indication yet, this will change.  So, it is not a significant risk currently. 

[chiang mai]

17 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

No, 'everyone' wouldn't arrive at the same point eventually. 

 

These threads, or similarly trusting the advice/consultancy of 'expat' tax advisors (which is apparently technically illegal)  have caused some people to:

 

Firstly, waste their time & energy - by trying to self file and in many cases being denied even getting a TIN.

Secondly, next year when/if they do manage to file DIY, or one of the (IMO predatory) agencies does it for them - they have wasted their money. 
 

Those who didn't read them, continue to not file, as they have not filed for many years, with no consequences, and have not wasted their time nor money. 

 

 

 

Thailand has had minimal/no tax enforcement on foreigners for many years despite many technically being liable.

 

There is no indication yet, this will change.  So, it is not a significant risk currently. 

You've become a joke, you do realise, every single thing I post you have to disagree with and refute.

Edited November 14 by chiang mai

[Yumthai]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Tell me, in what country that you've lived in is tax enforcement not a significant risk and why do you think that Thailand should be any different!

Maybe because in some other countries I've lived people couldn't bypass rules simply using legal loopholes, workarounds via agents or "flexible" public servants.

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

You've become a joke, you do realise, every single thing I post you have to disagree with and refute.

Because he disagrees with everything you post -- makes him a joke!?. I say it makes him astute, in most cases. Get rid of the thin skin -- and build in a little flexibility, when other's ideas don't match yours.

[anrcaccount]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

you do realise, every single thing I post you have to disagree with and refute.

 

Incorrect, again.

 

In the past six days I've posted 3 times (now 4), while you, nearly 100............

[chiang mai]

59 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Incorrect, again.

 

In the past six days I've posted 3 times (now 4), while you, nearly 100............

Six of your past seven posts refute personal opinions I've posted, I can't believe you actually challenge opinions and call them wrong FFS. You're obsessed, you're stalking yet again and have been since you started your anti Lister campaign, you need help, go away.

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Because he disagrees with everything you post -- makes him a joke!?. I say it makes him astute, in most cases. Get rid of the thin skin -- and build in a little flexibility, when other's ideas don't match yours.

Have another drink and go to bed.

[scottiejohn]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Have another drink and go to bed.

Why don't you take your own advice and give us all a break?

[scottiejohn]

7 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

posts refute personal opinions I've posted,

I thought this forum was about facts, NOT pointless opinions!

PS; Especially yours!

[chiang mai]

On 11/14/2024 at 9:52 PM, scottiejohn said:

I thought this forum was about facts, NOT pointless opinions!

PS; Especially yours!

You continue to say that this forum is about fact when the notice at the top of the thread explicitly states it is not and that it is for people to express opinions. Here, once again, in  a larger font, is what the notice says:

 

"Posts made by individuals reflect their own opinions and should not be taken as fact".

 

The bigger problem, than just your opportunistic sniping, is members general perception of the difference between tax fact and opinion, a problem that has been exacerbated by some longer term members who also are unable to always remember. So let me try and give you something to work with that might help you and others:

 

If it's written in the Thai Tax Revenue Code (this is the book of Thai  tax rules), it is fact, even if the rule or practise is dormant or the opposite is being adhered to by some. If it's not, it's opinion.

 

Some examples of these things include:

 

1) There is no penalty for not filing a tax return, after breaching the threshold level, even if no tax is due - This is opinion, the facts are that penalties do exist for not filing a tax return when one is due.

 

2) If you are tax resident and your income is below the assessable income level, before TEDA and the tax free band are applied, you do not have to file a tax return - This is fact.

 

3) If you are tax resident and your income is below the assessable income level, only after TEDA and the tax free band is applied, you do not have to file a tax return - This is opinion, there is no explicit statement that suggests you are allowed to make your own tax calculations in this manner and not file a tax return as a result.

 

4) The response to a question asked at one branch of the TRD will be entirely complete and correct and will mirror the answers received at other branches, all of which will accurately reflect the TRD Code and TRD HQ views. - This is not fact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

56 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

You continue to say that this forum is about fact when the notice at the top of the thread explicitly states it is not and that it is for people to express opinions. Here, once again, in  a larger font, is what the notice says:

 

"Posts made by individuals reflect their own opinions and should not be taken as fact".

 

The bigger problem, than just your opportunistic sniping, is members general perception of the difference between tax fact and opinion, a problem that has been exacerbated by some longer term members who also are unable to always remember. So let me try and give you something to work with that might help you and others:

 

If it's written in the Thai Tax Revenue Code (this is the book of Thai  tax rules), it is fact, even if the rule or practise is dormant or the opposite is being adhered to by some. If it's not, it's opinion.

 

Some examples of these things include:

 

1) There is no penalty for not filing a tax return, after breaching the threshold level, even if no tax is due - This is opinion, the facts are that penalties do exist for not filing a tax return when one is due.

 

2) If you are tax resident and your income is below the assessable income level, before TEDA and the tax free band are applied, you do not have to file a tax return - This is fact.

 

3) If you are tax resident and your income is below the assessable income level, only after TEDA and the tax free band is applied, you do not have to file a tax return - This is opinion, there is no explicit statement that suggests you are allowed to make your own tax calculations in this manner and not file a tax return as a result.

 

4) The response to a question asked at one branch of the TRD will be entirely complete and correct and will mirror the answers received at other branches, all of which will accurately reflect the TRD Code and TRD HQ views. - This is not fact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good morning, careful not to cross that threshold of legality by giving Thai tax advice. Just trying  to help a fellow forum member.

[chiang mai]

47 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Good morning, careful not to cross that threshold of legality by giving Thai tax advice. Just trying  to help a fellow forum member.

Explaining what is and is not written in the Revenue Code, is not tax advice. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/14/2024 at 2:52 PM, scottiejohn said:

I thought this forum was about facts, NOT pointless opinions!

PS; Especially yours!

I thought it was about everything, including facts, opinions, views, humor, experiences etc etc. 

[ChaiyaTH]

On 11/14/2024 at 7:02 PM, chiang mai said:

You've become a joke, you do realise, every single thing I post you have to disagree with and refute.

Well he is actually right, almost none of the foreign business owners, for example restaurants bars and so on, never paid a dime of tax or minimal fake taxes. Same for all profits on property rentals etc etc etc. 

Thailand has basically made zero effort so far, to even enforce things for what was always applicable already. Let alone the new change to transfers to Thailand while being classed a tax resident, or let alone the fantasy pipe dream of overseas income. 

The country would be half empty in no time, the south would suddenly have property available and hurt property developers. All this while they are under high pressure already in general. 

Do you really think it is a magic trick or accident that the news went silence for so long already? Most of the entire news was all and only due to the new appointed woman boss of the TRD. Now she is in place, she will shut up. This happens all the time with police stations and immigration bureaus as well. Until the dust settles.

 

They might have a tiny chance of success if they allow us to first deduct the private education 100% before having to pay any taxes, if any taxes left. I'd accept a flat 10% not a .25% more + with a 3-5 yearly visa.

Edited Tuesday at 04:52 PM by ChaiyaTH

[KhunHeineken]

42 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Well he is actually right, almost none of the foreign business owners, for example restaurants bars and so on, never paid a dime of tax or minimal fake taxes. Same for all profits on property rentals etc etc etc. 

Thailand has basically made zero effort so far, to even enforce things for what was always applicable already. Let alone the new change to transfers to Thailand while being classed a tax resident, or let alone the fantasy pipe dream of overseas income. 

The country would be half empty in no time, the south would suddenly have property available and hurt property developers. All this while they are under high pressure already in general. 

Do you really think it is a magic trick or accident that the news went silence for so long already? Most of the entire news was all and only due to the new appointed woman boss of the TRD. Now she is in place, she will shut up. This happens all the time with police stations and immigration bureaus as well. Until the dust settles.

 

They might have a tiny chance of success if they allow us to first deduct the private education 100% before having to pay any taxes, if any taxes left. I'd accept a flat 10% not a .25% more + with a 3-5 yearly visa.

Are you suggesting it will all just go away? 

[chiang mai]

42 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Well he is actually right, almost none of the foreign business owners, for example restaurants bars and so on, never paid a dime of tax or minimal fake taxes. Same for all profits on property rentals etc etc etc. 

Thailand has basically made zero effort so far, to even enforce things for what was always applicable already. Let alone the new change to transfers to Thailand while being classed a tax resident, or let alone the fantasy pipe dream of overseas income. 

The country would be half empty in no time, the south would suddenly have property available and hurt property developers. All this while they are under high pressure already in general. 

Do you really think it is a magic trick or accident that the news went silence for so long already? Most of the entire news was all and only due to the new appointed woman boss of the TRD. Now she is in place, she will shut up. This happens all the time with police stations and immigration bureaus as well. Until the dust settles.

 

They might have a tiny chance of success if they allow us to first deduct the private education 100% before having to pay any taxes, if any taxes left. I'd accept a flat 10% not a .25% more + with a 3-5 yearly visa.

Some of you are so funny, you've been told about the rule change but because nothing has been said since, you think they may not be serious.......really! I suppose that leaves you with a choice, one of which is to ignore it all and see what happens downstream. If you decide to go that route and it gets messy later, you can't say you didn't know and weren't told. 

[KhunHeineken]

11 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I suppose that leaves you with a choice, one of which is to ignore it all and see what happens downstream. If you decide to go that route and it gets messy later, you can't say you didn't know and weren't told. 

That's fine, until extension time and they say, "Gotcha."