Introduction to Personal Income Tax in Thailand

[cdnvic]

One post with a personal attack and another commenting on moderation removed. Really losing patience again with some people in this conversation. So here it is, in simple English:

 

If you can't make your point without insulting someone, your input isn't welcome here. Your post(s) will be removed and your account suspended.

[jwest10]

9 minutes ago, cdnvic said:

One post with a personal attack and another commenting on moderation removed. Really losing patience again with some people in this conversation. So here it is, in simple English:

 

If you can't make your point without insulting someone, your input isn't welcome here. Your post(s) will be removed and your account suspended.

Yes, have put him back on but how does know if one is a moderator or Admin on the page thanks and have a merry Christmas but this tax issue and also frozen state pension and other topics too

 

[cdnvic]

2 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

how does know if one is a moderator or Admin on the page

Look under the portrait. If they are a moderator or admin it will say so. If you have more questions, contact support.

[chiang mai]

The link below is to the tax consultancy Mazars,  who provide a detailed explanation how to complete the PND91 tax return and also confirms the TEDA for 2024. Most retired foreigners like myself require the PND90 which is not included. The TEDA explanation, however, will be useful for many people because it is the latest confirmation dated November 2024.

 

The document is entitled, "Personal Income Tax Return, PND91, a closer look November 2024".

 

https://www.forvismazars.com/th/en/insights/doing-business-in-thailand/payroll/personal-income-tax-return-form-pnd-91

[Mutt Daeng]

19 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

The link below is to the tax consultancy Mazars,  who provide a detailed explanation how to complete the PND91 tax return and also confirms the TEDA for 2024. Most retired foreigners like myself require the PND90 which is not included. The TEDA explanation, however, will be useful for many people because it is the latest confirmation dated November 2024.

 

The document is entitled, "Personal Income Tax Return, PND91, a closer look November 2024".

 

https://www.forvismazars.com/th/en/insights/doing-business-in-thailand/payroll/personal-income-tax-return-form-pnd-91

If a person simply has assessable income from pensions only, would PND91 be the correct form to submit?

[chiang mai]

20 minutes ago, Mutt Daeng said:

If a person simply has assessable income from pensions only, would PND91 be the correct form to submit?

I don't know for certain. Whilst logically speaking that would be correct, I'm not sure if the TRD would accept that, despite pension income being classed as Cat 1 income. I have a feeling that because the income is remitted from overseas, that may push it into the "other" income category and dictate that PND90 is used. It may be worth asking TRD, if you are able to visit. 

[Mutt Daeng]

25 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I don't know for certain. Whilst logically speaking that would be correct, I'm not sure if the TRD would accept that, despite pension income being classed as Cat 1 income. I have a feeling that because the income is remitted from overseas, that may push it into the "other" income category and dictate that PND90 is used. It may be worth asking TRD, if you are able to visit. 

OK Thanks for the reply.

[losrealitycheck]

Hi Mike Lister,

 

What a  really helpful document! Thank you very much. Can you please tell me where to download it or receive it via email as I need to study at carefully? 

 

Thank you, 

 

Rene 

 

 

[OJAS]

On 12/18/2024 at 5:38 AM, chiang mai said:

I don't know for certain. Whilst logically speaking that would be correct, I'm not sure if the TRD would accept that, despite pension income being classed as Cat 1 income. I have a feeling that because the income is remitted from overseas, that may push it into the "other" income category and dictate that PND90 is used. It may be worth asking TRD, if you are able to visit. 

 

Well I for one am not prepared to engage myself, through my wife, in a potentially lengthy and convoluted discussion solely in the Thai language with my local office (because no-one there speaks English), which would almost certainly prove inconclusive (and, hence, a complete waste of our time) in any event. PND91 is the form which, as far as I am concerned, I need to complete, given that my sole source of assessable income is the UK State Pension, and I see no reason why I should now be expected to get my head around the far more complicated PND90 form, given the relatively small amount by way of assessable income involved in my case, which is fully covered by TEDA's in any event. So I'm still planning to file on the basis of the PND91, and shall take it from there.

 

But many thanks for forwarding an extremely useful document in my case.

 

 

[OJAS]

On 12/18/2024 at 5:13 AM, Mutt Daeng said:

If a person simply has assessable income from pensions only, would PND91 be the correct form to submit?

 

If your sole source of assessable income is the UK State Pension (as it is in my case), I would have thought that the answer to your question was unhesitatingly in the affirmative!

[OJAS]

On 12/18/2024 at 5:38 AM, chiang mai said:

I have a feeling that because the income is remitted from overseas, that may push it into the "other" income category and dictate that PND90 is used.

 

That would surely mean that only those who were solely in receipt of Thai pensions (or other Thai income from employment) would be able to file on the basis of the PND91 form, would it not?

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, OJAS said:

 

That would surely mean that only those who were solely in receipt of Thai pensions (or other Thai income from employment) would be able to file on the basis of the PND91 form, would it not?

Yes it would.

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

So I'm still planning to file on the basis of the PND91

How do you file that PND91?

Is it in person or online?

Also what supporting documents from UK/Thai banks are required?

[topt]

1 hour ago, scottiejohn said:

Is it in person or online?

Either

1 hour ago, scottiejohn said:

Also what supporting documents from UK/Thai banks are required?

None initially unless asked.

When reclaiming tax withheld on bank interest then they need forms from the bank.

 

All this is in the "guide" - or subsequent posts - have you bothered to read it........

[scottiejohn]

4 minutes ago, topt said:

All this is in the "guide" - or subsequent posts - have you bothered to read it......

You must be joking if you think anyone is going to read all that crap!

 

PS;  You say the form is available on lone!

Do you have a link to it please!

[topt]

6 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Do you have a link to it please!

Don't shoot the messenger but apparently we are still awaiting the 2024 (file in 2025) form to appear........

[Mutt Daeng]

11 hours ago, OJAS said:

 

If your sole source of assessable income is the UK State Pension (as it is in my case), I would have thought that the answer to your question was unhesitatingly in the affirmative!

Thanks for your input @OJAS. My income comprises UK Govt pension (I worked in Local Govt), a workplace pension (private sector) and state pension, all of which are remitted to Thailand. My understanding of the current Thai tax position is that the UK Govt Pension is covered by the DTA between the UK and Thailand and is only taxable in the UK, My assessable income comprises my workplace and state pensions which combined will not exceed the sum of my allowances, exemptions and deductibles. So it would seem I will have no Thai tax to pay. 

[anchadian]

2 hours ago, Mutt Daeng said:

Thanks for your input @OJAS. My income comprises UK Govt pension (I worked in Local Govt), a workplace pension (private sector) and state pension, all of which are remitted to Thailand. My understanding of the current Thai tax position is that the UK Govt Pension is covered by the DTA between the UK and Thailand and is only taxable in the UK, My assessable income comprises my workplace and state pensions which combined will not exceed the sum of my allowances, exemptions and deductibles. So it would seem I will have no Thai tax to pay. 

Concur.  I'm in exactly the same situation as yourself. workplace and state pension, minus exemptions and deductions, I too will have no tax to pay.

 

With the possible state of confusion and lack of English language speakers at the RD, I Hope  to be applying for a TIN and filing a tax return in the new year.

[Liquorice]

3 hours ago, Mutt Daeng said:

Thanks for your input @OJAS. My income comprises UK Govt pension (I worked in Local Govt), a workplace pension (private sector) and state pension, all of which are remitted to Thailand. My understanding of the current Thai tax position is that the UK Govt Pension is covered by the DTA between the UK and Thailand and is only taxable in the UK, My assessable income comprises my workplace and state pensions which combined will not exceed the sum of my allowances, exemptions and deductibles. So it would seem I will have no Thai tax to pay. 

Civil service pensions are exempt under the DTA, state, private and company pensions are not.

[Liquorice]

14 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

Also what supporting documents from UK/Thai banks are required?

12 hours ago, topt said:

None initially unless asked.

 

My TRD told me to submit documents relevant to the information stated on the PND.

I receive UK state pension, a private pension and a company pension.

P60's, HMRC and DWP statements, UK and Thai bank statement and informed if I used 'Wise' for transfers (which I do) then the transfer receipts from Wise.

 

I also calculated my assessable income will not be taxable, but the PITA is completing the form and acquiring the relevant documents.

[Liquorice]

12 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

PS;  You say the form is available on lone!

Do you have a link to it please!

https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html

 

The new 2024 forms should be available for download between Xmas and New year.

[MartinL]

1 hour ago, Liquorice said:

My TRD told me to submit documents relevant to the information stated on the PND.

I receive UK state pension, a private pension and a company pension.

P60's, HMRC and DWP statements, UK and Thai bank statement and informed if I used 'Wise' for transfers (which I do) then the transfer receipts from Wise.

 

I also calculated my assessable income will not be taxable, but the PITA is completing the form and acquiring the relevant documents.

 

I receive the same type of income from UK as you.

 

DWP statement - what's that? I've certainly never received such a thing since becoming eligible for SP in 2019.

 

Nowhere on my P60s from company and private pensions is my SP mentioned. It appears on the HMRC annual Tax Code Notice and shows the tax-free allowance being reduced because of it and then that tax code being applied to my 'main' pension. That would have to satisfy Thai RD because there's nothing else to show that the SP has been taxed.

 

At a glance and without knowing precise details of how the UK tax code works, I can see some small local tax offices saying "You haven't paid tax anywhere on the SP" and I'd feel they could be justified for saying that, leading to hassle in trying to tell them how it works.

 

Bank statements - easy. Don't use Wise.

[Liquorice]

15 minutes ago, MartinL said:

DWP statement - what's that? I've certainly never received such a thing since becoming eligible for SP in 2019.

Each year I receive a statement from the DWP notifying me of what my state pension is.

 

16 minutes ago, MartinL said:

Nowhere on my P60s from company and private pensions is my SP mentioned. It appears on the HMRC annual Tax Code Notice and shows the tax-free allowance being reduced because of it and then that tax code being applied to my 'main' pension.

On the annual P60 from my private pension, it lists the state pension, the private pension and the company pension totals and the tax paid against each one.

Obviously, nil tax on the state pension.

[MartinL]

2 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

Each year I receive a statement from the DWP notifying me of what my state pension is.

 

On the annual P60 from my private pension, it lists the state pension, the private pension and the company pension totals and the tax paid against each one.

Obviously, nil tax on the state pension.

 

Thanks for that.

 

It seems that, in my case at least, the DWP and my 'main' pension provider are being negligent and it's something I should be chasing up.

[OJAS]

19 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Yes it would.

 

And that in turn begs a further question - namely, that, if tax returns relating to remitted pension income have to be filed on a PND90, what would the TRD's view be if and when such income were eventually taxed at source (i.e. on the basis of the date a pension was earned) instead, with remittances no longer entering the frame? If the TRD were happy for "at source" pension income to be reported on a PND91, having previously insisted on remitted income being reported on a PND90, that would IMHO be taking crass illogicality to an extreme level!

 

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, MartinL said:

DWP statement - what's that? I've certainly never received such a thing since becoming eligible for SP in 2019.

 

Did you not receive a letter from the DWP back in 2019 advising you of the rate at which your SP was to be paid (which then, of course, was to be frozen for ever and ever amen while you were in Thailand)?

 

EDIT: I am, of course, assuming that, not only did you become eligible for the SP in 2019, but you also actually claimed it then (in my case I became eligible in 2014 but didn't actually claim until 2015 so as to get at least 1 triple-lock increase under the belt)!

[OJAS]

17 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

You must be joking if you think anyone is going to read all that crap!

 

That load of "crap",as you choose to call it, has, in fact, proved invaluable to me (and no doubt to many others on here as well) in getting to grips with the whole complex taxation issue. If you find yourself getting tripped up by the TRD as a result of a dogged determination and refusal to read it, then I, for one, won't be shedding any tears for you!