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Posted
3 hours ago, Liquorice said:

You're also missing the point that if you remit funds held prior to 1st Jan 2024, those funds are exempt of tax and therefore no requirement to file a tax return or obtain a TIN. Other than your word, you'd have nothing from the TRD to show Immigration.

Do you really think it will play out that way, either in 2025, or in the future?  Do you remember where you are? 

Posted
19 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

It can be very difficult to prove a negative. No, I didn't remit any monies. Prove it. How? Go to every bank in the country to get a statement that you don't have an account with them. No, I didn't make any ATM withdrawals using a foreign bank debit or credi card. Prove it. How? That's unworkable. Luckily, I do not need to go to IM for another 5 years with my new LTR visa.

The Thai government knows all the bank account of foreigners.

 

One would have to submit bank statements to the TRD.  Calculations and deductions will be applied.  A bill may or may not be presented.  

 

Some members have already posted of their TRD experience, and that's pretty much the way it went.  

 

Do you really think it's going to be that easy to say, "I don't remit assessable income" and it all just disappears for you?   

Posted
2 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Do you really think it's going to be that easy to say, "I don't remit assessable income" and it all just disappears for you?   

And what are you doing (like in my case) when your responsible Local Revenue Office told you:

Your to Thailand remitted money from your State Pension is in relation to the DTA non assessable income!

You don't need a TIN and you don't get a TIN!

Bye bye, have a nice day!

  • Agree 2
Posted
19 hours ago, MikeN said:

Because of the number of exemptions, that's why. In the case of Australians ...got a military pension? Non assessable income, no need to file. Civil servant? ditto. Police pension? ...ditto 

There are 61 countries with Double Taxation Agreements, most of them different. You think IOs are going to understand the varying details about who will need to file a tax return or not?

You missed the point, completely. 

 

Ok, let's say an Aussie expat in Thailand is on a military pension.  It's a government service pension, thus covered by a DTA.  The pension is paid into his Aussie bank account, and he transfers it to his Thai bank account.  Pretty standard for many expats. 

 

Now, the Thai bank just sees the "cash" transfers.  The Thai bank doesn't know it's from a military pension, do they?  The Thai bank just reports to the government the flow of funds through our Aussie vet's account.  Let say our Aussie vet goes over the tax free threshold in Thailand.  Not difficult to do..

 

This is where it gets interesting.  Our Aussie vet knows his pension is covered under a DTA, so, using the self assessment method, does nothing.  However, this still leave the Thai government with the question, what is the source of this Thai tax resident's funds?  

 

Can you see how they MAY use immigration laws to send him off to a TRD Office for them to "go through him" and then issue a certificate of clearance so he can get his extension?  

 

Is the above soooooooo left field that it's impossible?   

 

Also, the Aussie old age pension is not covered by the DTA.  Do you have any advice for the thousands of Aussie aged pensioners? 

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Posted
1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Do you really think it's going to be that easy to say, "I don't remit assessable income" and it all just disappears for you?   

Yes, it's that easy. It all magically disappeared when I received my LTR-WP visa. BOI informed me in writing that all my foreign income is tax exempt and I do not need to file a tax return. TRD & IM are two of the gov't agencies that had to sign off on my LTR visa. No more worries. Good luck to you.

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Posted
2 hours ago, 10000Baht said:

And what are you doing (like in my case) when your responsible Local Revenue Office told you:

Your to Thailand remitted money from your State Pension is in relation to the DTA non assessable income!

You don't need a TIN and you don't get a TIN!

Bye bye, have a nice day!

That's the problem, it's the standard information from Somchai because he has no idea of the gravity of the situation for foreigners. 

 

It's out of Somchai's square box, so typical Thai way of dealing with the situation, say "Can not" or "Come back tomorrow" or "Need one more photocopy" etc etc.  They will say anything to hide their lack of knowledge and / or incompetence, and let another staff member deal with it at another time. 

 

What do you think will happen to the people who should file, go to a TRD Office and told "No need to file" and leave happy, but the Thai banks report their remittances to the Thai government?   

Posted
2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Just speculation

More  of a prediction, really.  Is there anything wrong with that? 

 

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

If such a thing happens, then we'll discuss it,

They are discussing casinos in Thailand in another thread.  Casinos haven't "happened" yet.  

 

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

There is no reason to bother with such things now.

What's the bother?  It's just some discussion on an internet forum.  

 

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

JUST KEEP RECORDS.

Yes, and have a Plan B, Plan C, and Plan D.   

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Posted
12 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

That's the problem, it's the standard information from Somchai

 

First of all I would like to tell you that what you wrote here is disrespectful to Thai people. Only my opinion!

 

12 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

They will say anything to hide their lack of knowledge and / or incompetence, and let another staff member deal with it at another time. 

 

Not in my case, because I really have no assessable income. My income is exclusively from a state pension. I know that and the tax authorities in my area revenue office know that too. In a 15 minute personal talk in his office the lawyer there also showed me the relevant legal text in the DTA, which I already knew. So in my case it is not a lack of knowledge about their tax rules. I think it's more the lack of guidelines for my specific case. I am not happy with: "Keep records and wait and see"!

My attempt to get his name and something in writing was answered by saying that I should ask to the area revenue office in writing. We did this in Thai language a few days later. After 3 months and several inquiries about the status, I received a written reply from the regional revenue office. Unfortunately, this did not help me either, because on a whole page only my personal details were repeated and it was confirmed that especially my income is exempt from tax in Thailand.  My main question was, if I can get a TIN and have to file a tax return even though I have no assessable income. I didn't get an written answer to that question, but my area revenue office refused to give me a TIN because I have no assessable income.

After I got this letter from the regional revenue office in August 2024, I wrote an email (attached my correspondence with the regional revenue office) to the Revenue Department Bangkok, to get an answer to my main question. No answer. To date I wrote 4 emails at regular intervals, but have not received a single reply!

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Posted
29 minutes ago, 10000Baht said:

Not in my case, because I really have no assessable income. My income is exclusively from a state pension

And, as you say, you're well aware that your knowledge of the DTA makes your self-assessment ironclad. Why not leave it at that?

 

36 minutes ago, 10000Baht said:

I am not happy with: "Keep records and wait and see"!

Why not? Since your self-assessment seems right on, I think a "we'll call you, don't call us" is appropriate.

 

39 minutes ago, 10000Baht said:

and it was confirmed that especially my income is exempt from tax in Thailand.  My main question was, if I can get a TIN and have to file a tax return even though I have no assessable income.

What numbers, exactly, would you put on a tax return -- since they have no interest in non assessable income and, as a result, have no place to include such on a tax return.

 

41 minutes ago, 10000Baht said:

 I didn't get an written answer to that question, but my area revenue office refused to give me a TIN because I have no assessable income.

Might that be your first clue that non assessable income isn't wanted on a tax return?

 

 

45 minutes ago, 10000Baht said:

To date I wrote 4 emails at regular intervals, but have not received a single reply!

I don't doubt it. They've wasted enough time on you already.

  • Agree 1
Posted
48 minutes ago, 10000Baht said:

 

First of all I would like to tell you that what you wrote here is disrespectful to Thai people. Only my opinion!

 

 

Not in my case, because I really have no assessable income. My income is exclusively from a state pension. I know that and the tax authorities in my area revenue office know that too. In a 15 minute personal talk in his office the lawyer there also showed me the relevant legal text in the DTA, which I already knew. So in my case it is not a lack of knowledge about their tax rules. I think it's more the lack of guidelines for my specific case. I am not happy with: "Keep records and wait and see"!

My attempt to get his name and something in writing was answered by saying that I should ask to the area revenue office in writing. We did this in Thai language a few days later. After 3 months and several inquiries about the status, I received a written reply from the regional revenue office. Unfortunately, this did not help me either, because on a whole page only my personal details were repeated and it was confirmed that especially my income is exempt from tax in Thailand.  My main question was, if I can get a TIN and have to file a tax return even though I have no assessable income. I didn't get an written answer to that question, but my area revenue office refused to give me a TIN because I have no assessable income.

After I got this letter from the regional revenue office in August 2024, I wrote an email (attached my correspondence with the regional revenue office) to the Revenue Department Bangkok, to get an answer to my main question. No answer. To date I wrote 4 emails at regular intervals, but have not received a single reply!

Do you have a bank account in Thailand? Do you get interest paid and withholding tax taken on that account? If so you are paying tax in Thailand on that assesable income and they should issue you a TIN. That was the reason I gave my local revenue department a couple of years ago.

 

  • Agree 1
Posted
6 minutes ago, alanrchase said:

Do you have a bank account in Thailand?

Yes, more than 1

7 minutes ago, alanrchase said:

Do you get interest paid and withholding tax taken on that account?

Yes

7 minutes ago, alanrchase said:

If so you are paying tax in Thailand on that assesable income and they should issue you a TIN

Yes I know, I think they would do.

Posted
39 minutes ago, JimGant said:

And, as you say, you're well aware that your knowledge of the DTA makes your self-assessment ironclad. Why not leave it at that?

 

I will, if I will get no answer (what I expect) until 31st March or respectively 9th April

 

39 minutes ago, JimGant said:

What numbers, exactly, would you put on a tax return -- since they have no interest in non assessable income and, as a result, have no place to include such on a tax return.

 

You are right, but this would be only a question of the tax refund form. But I also know they will not change only because of foreigners!

 

39 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Why not? Since your self-assessment seems right on, I think a "we'll call you, don't call us" is appropriate.

 

You are right again, as long as nobody asks in the future about my income, why I did not file yearly tax refunds and have to bring evidences for the past years!

 

 

 

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Posted
4 hours ago, 10000Baht said:

First of all I would like to tell you that what you wrote here is disrespectful to Thai people. Only my opinion!

Yes, only your opinion, and I disagree with it. 

 

4 hours ago, 10000Baht said:

 

First of all I would like to tell you that what you wrote here is disrespectful to Thai people. Only my opinion!

 

 

Not in my case, because I really have no assessable income. My income is exclusively from a state pension. I know that and the tax authorities in my area revenue office know that too. In a 15 minute personal talk in his office the lawyer there also showed me the relevant legal text in the DTA, which I already knew. So in my case it is not a lack of knowledge about their tax rules. I think it's more the lack of guidelines for my specific case. I am not happy with: "Keep records and wait and see"!

My attempt to get his name and something in writing was answered by saying that I should ask to the area revenue office in writing. We did this in Thai language a few days later. After 3 months and several inquiries about the status, I received a written reply from the regional revenue office. Unfortunately, this did not help me either, because on a whole page only my personal details were repeated and it was confirmed that especially my income is exempt from tax in Thailand.  My main question was, if I can get a TIN and have to file a tax return even though I have no assessable income. I didn't get an written answer to that question, but my area revenue office refused to give me a TIN because I have no assessable income.

After I got this letter from the regional revenue office in August 2024, I wrote an email (attached my correspondence with the regional revenue office) to the Revenue Department Bangkok, to get an answer to my main question. No answer. To date I wrote 4 emails at regular intervals, but have not received a single reply!

Firstly, I am speaking generally on the subject, not to your specific set of circumstances.  

 

I've posted this in two other threads for members who have had a similar TRD experience to you.  I call it "The Somchail Shuffle."  :smile: 

 

  This guy sets it out in quite a direct manner.  He also quotes the Thai law from decades ago.   He mentions Thai  immigration official can ask for any documents they want to support an extension application. 

 

It goes against what you were told at the TRD Office.  The problem seems to be an expat verbally tells a TRD officer he is on a pension.  The automatic response is , "No need to file." 

 

Not, "What type of pension?  What country are you from?  How much money is your pension?"  etc etc. 

 

Expats just turn around and walk out the TRD office happy, and with a sense they have met their obligations, when in fact, they have done none of the sort.    

 

Like I have always said, there will be chaos, and this tax policy will evolve, but at the end of the day, the Thai government will turn a baht out of it.  

 

 

 

  • Sad 2
Posted
3 hours ago, alanrchase said:

Do you have a bank account in Thailand? Do you get interest paid and withholding tax taken on that account? If so you are paying tax in Thailand on that assesable income and they should issue you a TIN. That was the reason I gave my local revenue department a couple of years ago.

 

Good solution, and worth a try.  It could get around "The Somchai Shuffle." 

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Posted
28 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Yes, only your opinion, and I disagree with it. 

 

You can disagree, but in your sentences everybody can read how arrogant you talk about Thai people and generalize everybody.

 

28 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

"What type of pension?  What country are you from?  How much money is your pension?"  etc etc. 

 

I didn't talk in general. I talked about my case and these questions I've been exactly asked, proofed and answered. But I am still not happy and his name was not Somchai

  • Agree 1
Posted
1 hour ago, 10000Baht said:

You can disagree, but in your sentences everybody can read how arrogant you talk about Thai people and generalize everybody.

It's clear TRD staff have not been trained up to deal with a wave of foreigners coming through their doors. 

 

Tax is a complex set of laws in every country, including Thailand. 

 

I am sure you have used the saying, "This is Thailand" before.  Isn't such a term "disrespectful" to Thailand and Thai people? 

 

1 hour ago, 10000Baht said:

I didn't talk in general. I talked about my case and these questions I've been exactly asked, proofed and answered. But I am still not happy and his name was not Somchai

Are you suggesting the several members that have posted about going to their local TRD Office and were simply told, "No need to file" are lying?  

 

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Posted
1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

t's clear TRD staff have not been trained up to deal with a wave of foreigners coming through their doors. 

Tax is a complex set of laws in every country, including Thailand. 

I agree, but in the Area Revenue Office I have been twice, I didn't see one single foreigner.

 

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

I am sure you have used the saying, "This is Thailand" before. 

 

This is what you think, without any evidence for it. 

 

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Isn't such a term "disrespectful" to Thailand and Thai people? 

 

I think saying "This is Thailand" is far not the same as calling every employee in a Revenue Office "Somchai"

 

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Are you suggesting the several members that have posted about going to their local TRD Office and were simply told, "No need to file" are lying?  

 

No, of course not! And I didn't say this! I said in my case it was different!

Posted
On 2/8/2025 at 10:07 AM, 10000Baht said:

I agree, but in the Area Revenue Office I have been twice, I didn't see one single foreigner.

 

It would help to know what area that is.  It could be in Nakhon Nowhere. 

 

On 2/8/2025 at 10:07 AM, 10000Baht said:

This is what you think, without any evidence for it. 

Have you ever used that term?  That's a yes or no answer.  If you haven't, do you think everyone who uses that term is disrespectful or racist? 

 

How do you think the term came about in the first place?

 

On 2/8/2025 at 10:07 AM, 10000Baht said:

I think saying "This is Thailand" is far not the same as calling every employee in a Revenue Office "Somchai"

One and the same. 

 

Thailand is a terribly corrupt country.  You can buy a job and promotions here.  Just look at the police here.  

 

On 2/8/2025 at 10:07 AM, 10000Baht said:

No, of course not! And I didn't say this! I said in my case it was different!

So, you agree it is happening.

 

Do you have any advice for foreigners that know they have to file, and want to stay legal, but the TRD tell them, "No need to file?"   

 

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  • 1 month later...
Posted

This is off topic but still somewhat related to taxation in Thailand.

 

I was under the impression that I should not apply for a TIN as I do not have any taxable income here. I come from Canada and it may be beneficial for me to file an emigration tax return and become a non-resident of Canada and a resident of Thailand as Thailand still isn‘t taxing anything that isn‘t being remitted into Thailand.

 

However, it seems that upon returning to Canada, the Canadian revenue agency may ask for proof of being a tax resident elsewhere for the years of being a canadian non-resident. And if unable to provide such proof, they may deem me as a canadian resident for those years or even all years and ask for taxes. As such, it may be beneficial for me to file tax in Thailand. Unlike in other countries, it seems like it isn’t enough to have just stayed over half year or have ordinary abode, I need to actually have filed taxes in order to get a tax resident certificate. Although maybe I can hire an agent from a visa center to get it done.

 

Do any Canadians or anyone here have any thoughts on this matter?

 

 

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Posted
17 minutes ago, neilrob said:

A couple of months ago I posted here to ask about what to put on the form where it asks for the Thai tax ID number of the payer of the income in the case that the payer is the UK government. Not knowing the answer, I decided to wait until March, in the hope that the situation would become clearer. I finally filed this month using the online system with the help of a Thai friend. I am describing my experience in the hope it may help others in a similar situation.

 

I have been filing a Thai tax return since 2012, but this is the first time I have had to include foreign source income brought to Thailand. My assessable income consists of interest on deposits in Thai banks and UK old age pension. It totals a hair under 500KB. 

 

It turned out to be simpler than I expected. I entered the UK pension amount in part 1 of page 2 of the PND90 online website form. It then asks for tax withheld (presumably they are interested in Thai tax withholding, not others?). I entered zero because no tax was withheld either here or in the UK. The website then offers the option of it being foreign source income, which I chose. The website automatically entered the 100KB deduction allowed (but not more than 50% of the income) and subtracted this. It did not require a Thai TIN for the payer of the income.

 

The website also automatically entered my old age (over 65) deduction of 190KB against my interest income. The various deductions (100KB + 60KB + 190KB) reduced my income to a hair under 150KB. Consequently, I do not owe any tax and should get back all the tax which was deducted from interest. I will post further here if this is actually successful, However, I have always received such refunds previously.

 

I didn't declare non-assessable income, which in my case is US social security, since this is clearly excluded by the tax treaty. I did not attempt to claim foreign tax as a credit towards Thai tax under a double taxation treaty---I do not know whether or not this is possible with the current online system.

 

I hope this experience is helpful for others in a similar situation.

Yeah it is but I'm wondering if there was UK tax withheld (payed) whether that should have been entered. Probably not, but I'm asking.

Posted
1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah it is but I'm wondering if there was UK tax withheld (payed) whether that should have been entered. Probably not, but I'm asking.

Any tax paid in the UK under the DTA can be applied as a 'tax credit' against any tax due in Thailand, but as mentioned previously there is nowhere on the forms to enter such paid tax as a credit.

  • Agree 1
Posted
32 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

Just to recant my own experience.

For the previous 11 years, I've always reclaimed tax deducted from interest on my Thai bank accounts, so already had a TIN.

 

Mid-January, I attempted to file in person at the local TRD but met a wall of blank faces as if I'd lost my marbles.
Early February I attempted to refile in person again, this time armed with copies of POR161, POR 162 and extracted news clips from the TRD head office.

Although they were polite, I received condescending smiles and brushed away as if I was a foreign looney.
They specifically stated as I paid tax in the UK and didn't work in Thailand, the new 'interpretation' of the law didn't affect me, it wasn't aimed at foreign 'retirees' or those married to a Thai, unless I was operating a business in Thailand and/or overseas. My Thai wife then approached them, not wanting me to run into any later problems, and was told exactly the same thing.

 

Late February, third visit, armed with 12 month UK and Thai bank statements, evidence of pension payments, UK tax deducted and Thai bank receipts of interest earned and tax deducted, they quickly perused through everything, handing back all but the Thai bank receipts of tax deducted and processed the refund claim.

Last week, I received an SMS that my refund claim had been processed, and a cheque would be issued shortly, with no further mention of foreign overseas transfers.

 

 

 

Ah, yet another report of someone filing a return BUT conveniently owing no tax.

 

Also, another report from someone who already has a TIN and a filing history.

 

What about the thousands ( tens of thousands) of foreigners who remitted THB millions in 2024 to buy property....or even expensive vehicles? None of them are paying tax, right?

 

Yet to see a single report.

 

Reality is evident in the "blank faces" , status quo remains , Thailand ain't seriously interested in taxing foreign remitted income. 

 

No one who previously didn't file, should be worried if they don't file now.

 

Yet to see a single report, that changes that opinion.

 

 

 

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