House Master - TM30

[MangoKorat]

On several occasions I've seen posts on here where members have stated that their landlords refuse to register TM30 for them. You don't need to get your landlord to do it.

 

Whilst going through some old documents I came across an English version of an amendement to the Thai Immigration Law in relation to TM30 registration.  I seem to remember I found it as a result of a fight I had with Korat Immigration over whether or not I needed to get the registered owner of my property to register my TM30. I was successful in getting Korat Immigration to back down and let me register.  The registered owner of my property lives 200km away and Korat required an 'in person' first registration - hence why I was prepared to fight.

 

I can't remember where I got this document from - but it was most likely from this site or its predecessor - Thai Visa.

 

The title on the document is: Immigration Act In the name of his Mejesty King Bhumibol
Enacted on the 24Th of February B.E. 2522 The 34Th year of the present reign
Wherease it is deemed proper to revise the Law on immigration

 

I have a title on it of: Thai Visa, Immigration and Property Info/781542698_ImmigrationActB.E.2522(1979)en-immigration.pdf - that seems to suggest that I obtained it from Thai Visa, the old name for this website.

 

I hold a registered Usufruct Agreement and my Thai lawyer advised me that as such, I am the House Master and the document appears to confirm that.  The document though, also conveys that status to anyone who is a tenant.

 

The URL for the document no longer works and it is not possible to post PDF's here. I would convert it to a jpg and post it that way but the entire document is 15 pages long so I'll just copy and paste the relevant sections. As I don't have a working URL, I cannot state that the information is official but I believe it to be so.  If you are having any problems with your immigration office regarding this issue, the English version should only be used as a reference point. To convince your immigration office, you may need to find the original Thai version.

 

I'd be happy to send a copy to any interested member by e-mail.

 

The relevant sections are 4 and 38. 4 deals with the definition of House Master whilst 38 clearly states that the House Master must register the occupant. Clearly you will need either a copy of your lease or your Usufruct to accompany the document.

 

From Section 4:

 

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of
owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

Section 38:

 

The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager
where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the
competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or
hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office
located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified.
In case the house , dwelling place , or hotel where the alien has stayed under provision of Para.1
is located within the Bangkok area , such notification must be reported to the competent official at the
Immigration Division.
Making notification , in reference to the Para 1 and 2 of this Section , must comply with
regulations prescribed by the Director General

 

[zzzzz]

cant bother to read ur entire post but.....
1. if ur living there, you are the house master....... and ur landlord wont registrar you

you can do it yourself 

IF
he gives you a copy of the house book and his id card (both signed)
otherwise......

[MangoKorat]

1 minute ago, zzzzz said:

cant bother to read ur entire post but.....
1. if ur living there, you are the house master....... and ur landlord wont registrar you

you can do it yourself

Then maybe you should read the entire post because that's exactly what I'm saying.  However, it is not always as simple as you think it is.

 

Its quite clear from the posts I've seen on here that some people have problems getting their landlord to register TM30 and didn't know they are most likely able to register themselves.  Furthermore, members have reported that their immigration office would not accept them registering themselves.

 

Therefore, armed with the Thai version of the official document, they should be able to demonstrate to their local immigration office that they can indeed, register themselves.

[Jumbo1968]

My owner refused to do a TM30, last time he paid an agent 500 baht, he refused to give me a copy of his House Book so I could do it,  I sorted it with the assistance of an agent more so it was past the 24 hour deadline therefore I didn’t want to go to Jomtien and deal with Immigration, I am now moving house, his loss we had rented it for over 4 years.

[zzzzz]

3 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Then maybe you should read the entire post because that's exactly what I'm saying.  However, it is not always as simple as you think it is.

 

Its quite clear from the posts I've seen on here that some people have problems getting their landlord to register TM30 and didn't know they are most likely able to register themselves.  Furthermore, members have reported that their immigration office would not accept them registering themselves.

 

Therefore, armed with the Thai version of the official document, they should be able to demonstrate to their local immigration office that they can indeed, register themselves.

it is as simple as i posted as i registered as the house owner of the house i rent<
took all of 5 minutes 🙂

side note
One does NOT go into immigration with printed docs and tell them they are wrong!!!

[Liquorice]

19 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

I have a title on it of: Thai Visa, Immigration and Property Info/781542698_ImmigrationActB.E.2522(1979)en-immigration.pdf - that seems to suggest that I obtained it from Thai Visa, the old name for this website.

That is what you obviously named the document you downloaded.

It is simply the Thai Immigration Act (1979) which you can Google to download from a number of sources in both English and Thai.
Unfortunately most are downloaded as a pdf format, which apparently you can no longer post on AN, even though their own page on Laws, regulations, Police orders https://aseannow.com/topic/981135-laws-regulations-police-orders-etc/ are in pdf format.
Items 22 and 23 on the above link.

 

19 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

I came across an English version of an amendement to the Thai Immigration Law in relation to TM30 registration.  I seem to remember I found it as a result of a fight I had with Korat Immigration over whether or not I needed to get the registered owner of my property to register my TM30. I was successful in getting Korat Immigration to back down and let me register. 

The only amendment to section 38 of the Immigration Act was the new TM30 regulations in relation to situations where a TM30 need not be filed.
It does not alter the persons(s) responsible to file a TM30.

New TM30 regulations listed item 30 from the above link.

[MangoKorat]

9 hours ago, zzzzz said:

it is as simple as i posted as i registered as the house owner of the house i rent<
took all of 5 minutes 🙂

side note
One does NOT go into immigration with printed docs and tell them they are wrong!!!

It is clearly not as simple as you posted. Otherwise we would not have people posting on here (one quite recently) that they are having problems.  It was simple for you, it is clearly not as simple for everyone!

 

I have created this post to help the people that are having problems - if you don't need any help then you don't need to chirp in then do you?

 

As for immigration, well that's up to you and although I understand where you are coming from. I don't muck about with them.  My local office has been taken to court twice (possibly more now) and lost. Speak to Sebastian (formerly of Isaan Lawyers,now of Thai Law Online) if you don't believe that.

 

I would of course remain polite - which is probably why they backed down on this matter when I first applied to register TM30. I would not get into any heated argument with them but instead, leave it to my lawyer who has dealt with my local office many times. Thai's respond far better to Thai's, they won't have a foreigner telling them what to do but they will normally listen to a Thai who's on the same level of social standing. If not, court is an option but it would be a last resort.

 

If you cow tow to them when they are going against Police Orders, you make a rod for your back that you may have to live with forever.  There was a guy on here a couple of years back that cannot ever get his yearly extension done by his local office because he had an altercation with them. He didn't get a lawyer involved and now has to use another address and a different office for his extensions. 

 

Its about how you do it - I've been around Thailand long enough to know that you don't walk in to an Immigration office and simply tell them they are wrong.  You go through 'channels', my lawyer knows them but I'll admit that I am fortunate in that she aslo knows most of the staff at Korat Immigration.

[MangoKorat]

3 hours ago, Liquorice said:

That is what you obviously named the document you downloaded.

It is simply the Thai Immigration Act (1979) which you can Google to download from a number of sources in both English and Thai.
Unfortunately most are downloaded as a pdf format, which apparently you can no longer post on AN, even though their own page on Laws, regulations, Police orders https://aseannow.com/topic/981135-laws-regulations-police-orders-etc/ are in pdf format.
Items 22 and 23 on the above link.

 

The only amendment to section 38 of the Immigration Act was the new TM30 regulations in relation to situations where a TM30 need not be filed.
It does not alter the persons(s) responsible to file a TM30.

New TM30 regulations listed item 30 from the above link.

Are you saying that a tenant or Usufruct holder cannot now register their own TM30?

[Liquorice]

6 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Are you saying that a tenant or Usufruct holder cannot now register their own TM30?

No, I never stated any such thing.

It's clear, from section 4 of the Act, who is classed as responsible to file a TM30.

 

I stated the only amendment to section 38 came in 2020 with the new TM30 regulations, which has nothing to do with the persons responsible to file, rather than when to file.

[fulhamster]

17 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

My owner refused to do a TM30, last time he paid an agent 500 baht, he refused to give me a copy of his House Book so I could do it,  I sorted it with the assistance of an agent more so it was past the 24 hour deadline therefore I didn’t want to go to Jomtien and deal with Immigration, I am now moving house, his loss we had rented it for over 4 years.

Jomtien are getting very strict regarding TM30, you need one now just to do the 90 day report.

 

I have heard that the reason Thai houseowners / landlords won't do a TM30 is because they are scared of having to pay tax on the rental income.

[MangoKorat]

3 hours ago, Liquorice said:

No, I never stated any such thing.

Right, I was just trying to understand the reason for your post.

 

[MangoKorat]

3 hours ago, fulhamster said:

I have heard that the reason Thai houseowners / landlords won't do a TM30 is because they are scared of having to pay tax on the rental income.

I can't say I've heard that but I've long suspected it - especially since the announcment that many foreigners in Thailand will now have to file tax returns.   Reading through the details on that on this website, I was convinced that such landlords are trying to avoid tax.  There is a specific tax dealing with income from property - from memory, I believe its 12.5%.