Secretary Baker in 1990 No extension of NATO "one inch to the east" what could go wrong?

[Cameroni]

2 minutes ago, candide said:

Very funny!

 

Russia's GDP is around the size of Italy's GDP (when the price if energy is high), and there was no GDP growth between 2012 and 2022. The Russian population has also been strongly declining. Putin is an incompetent leader obsessed by past glory rather than the development of his country. See how China, which started at a much lower development level, has outsmarted Russia.

 

As the FT article you linked previously has shown, the current GDP growth is fuelled by military-related expenses:

"The Russian finance ministry estimates that war-related fiscal stimulus in 2022-23 was equivalent to around 10 per cent of GDP. In that same period, war-related industrial output has risen 35 per cent while civilian production has remained flat, according to research published by the Bank of Finland Institute for Emerging Economies."

https://www.ft.com/content/d304a182-997d-4dae-98a1-aa7c691526db

 

You do make me laugh..hahaha, Putin is an "incompetent leader". That's hilarious.

 

Not only has Putin ensured Russia's economy is outperforming that of the USA, UK, France and Germany but there is something more important:

 

Putin has seen how the West betrayed Russia and wanted to eliminate Russia as global power by encircling Russia with NATO expansion. He understood the consequences and took remedial action to ensure  Russia's future is  assured as an independent nation.

 

Neither Germany, France or the UK have achieved that success, having long ago succumbed to their role as vassal states of the US.

 

Russia, however, will hold its culture proud and continue to influence world and local politics on its own terms. Without taking directions from the USA.

 

This is in part due to Putin's genius, but also of course his longevity advantage. 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

You're getting a bit carried away with the frothing at the mouth there. Of course communism has failed and nobody wants it.

 

However, Putin has been the greatest statesmen of our time. He has not only steered Russia through the most difficult challenges, which would have broken any other Western leader but he has ensured Russia can thrive. Her economy now is booming precisely because Putin spent years in austerity to save, to ensure when he launched his war against Ukraine he could buy off the populace and pay for the required expenses. The long game Putin is playing is sheer genius.

 

So is the way he conducts the Ukraine war. He knows, given the economic superiority of Russia, he can just take his time. He does not need to take undue risks, like Ukraine has done out of desperation with Kursk. If Russia doesn't take Pokrovsk before Winter...okay, they'll take it in Spring. There is no rush. Ukraine is spending 38% of GDP on the war, Russia 5.9 % of GDP.

 

Putin's achievements are tremendous and his conduct of the Ukraine war is that of a master chess player.

 

Plus, he knows, should things go sideways he can use nuclear weapons. He can't lose.

While I can agree with that there are those on here that will never accept that Putin is anything but the devil incarnate, the antiChrist  and Trump rolled into one.

It's because of attitudes like that in western positions of authority that we are closer to nuclear winter than ever before.

 

While I am no Russia supporter I don't trust the cabal that gave us Vietnam, Gulf 1 and 2, 20 years too long in Afghanistan and a proxy war in Ukraine.

 

 

[Cameroni]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Vladimir Putin wanted Russia to join Nato but did not want his country to have to go through the usual application process and stand in line “with a lot of countries that don’t matter”, according to a former secretary general of the transatlantic alliance.

George Robertson, a former Labour defence secretary who led Nato between 1999 and 2003, said Putin made it clear at their first meeting that he wanted Russia to be part of western Europe. “They wanted to be part of that secure, stable prosperous west that Russia was out of at the time,” he said.

 

Indeed. That's what is so tragic. The Ukraine war never had to happen. Russia made very clear it wanted to be at the table, it helped US space exploration, it implemented Western economic reforms, it faciliated German unification.

 

Russia extended its hand in friendship. Only to get a slap in the face.

 

For years the West had promised Russia it would be included in the post 1989 reshaping of the security architecture. But it was all deception and lies. 

 

If they had acted in good faith and given Russia a seat at the table the Ukraine war would never have happened.

[Bkk Brian]

18 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Indeed. That's what is so tragic. The Ukraine war never had to happen. Russia made very clear it wanted to be at the table, it helped US space exploration, it implemented Western economic reforms, it faciliated German unification.

 

Russia extended its hand in friendship. Only to get a slap in the face.

 

For years the West had promised Russia it would be included in the post 1989 reshaping of the security architecture. But it was all deception and lies. 

 

If they had acted in good faith and given Russia a seat at the table the Ukraine war would never have happened.

Terribly tragic that he didnt have his demands met This has become a comedy topic from you.

 

‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’”

[NativeBob]

On 7/2/2024 at 12:29 PM, BobBKK said:

 How can anyone support anything more than 100%?  asking for a friend

BTW when I was in Kiev they all spoke Russian - maybe that's changed because of new laws but years ago this was the case.

Yes, also in Poltava region - nobody speaks other language than Russian. I found that strange back than. And for Kyiv - plain vanilla Russian. Nice city and very attractive ladies.  

[candide]

35 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

You do make me laugh..hahaha, Putin is an "incompetent leader". That's hilarious.

 

Not only has Putin ensured Russia's economy is outperforming that of the USA, UK, France and Germany but there is something more important:

 

Putin has seen how the West betrayed Russia and wanted to eliminate Russia as global power by encircling Russia with NATO expansion. He understood the consequences and took remedial action to ensure  Russia's future is  assured as an independent nation.

 

Neither Germany, France or the UK have achieved that success, having long ago succumbed to their role as vassal states of the US.

 

Russia, however, will hold its culture proud and continue to influence world and local politics on its own terms. Without taking directions from the USA.

 

This is in part due to Putin's genius, but also of course his longevity advantage. 

Putin a "genius"! 😀

 

The current growth is fueled by military expenses, that's fact.

Russia's GDP is low, given its large natural resources and its population. That's fact.

Russia's GDP remained stagnant between 2012 and 2022. That's fact.

Its population has-been decreasing, even before the war. That's fact.

 

No one wants to be associated with Russia (except autocratic leaders). 

[Cameroni]

30 minutes ago, candide said:

Putin a "genius"! 😀

 

The current growth is fueled by military expenses, that's fact.

Russia's GDP is low, given its large natural resources and its population. That's fact.

Russia's GDP remained stagnant between 2012 and 2022. That's fact.

Its population has-been decreasing, even before the war. That's fact.

 

No one wants to be associated with Russia (except autocratic leaders). 

 

Politically he's a genius, in terms of actions. For Russia to outperform the USA, German, France and UK in terms of GDP growth two years in a row, is no mean feat. It's  not the military expenses that are boosting Russia. It's Putin's spending, as a result of years of austerity Russia had accumulated huge cash reserves. A very wise policy for someone about to embark on a war. Incredibly well planned.

 

Plus, he's winning the war in Ukraine, taking on the entire West by proxy and has Ukraine running to meaningless Kursk out of desperation. He's taking his time, not rushing things. Very patient, he fights the war like a chess player. Victory is assured. Putin has been very impressive in Ukraine.

 

However, his whole performance has been superb, looking at all the difficulties Putin had to face since the 1990s to now.

[TedG]

3 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Politically he's a genius, in terms of actions. For Russia to outperform the USA, German, France and UK in terms of GDP growth two years in a row, is no mean feat. It's  not the military expenses that are boosting Russia. It's Putin's spending, as a result of years of austerity Russia had accumulated huge cash reserves. A very wise policy for someone about to embark on a war. Incredibly well planned.

 

Plus, he's winning the war in Ukraine, taking on the entire West by proxy and has Ukraine running to meaningless Kursk out of desperation. He's taking his time, not rushing things. Very patient, he fights the war like a chess player. Victory is assured. Putin has been very impressive in Ukraine.

 

However, his whole performance has been superb, looking at all the difficulties Putin had to face since the 1990s to now.

The GDP growth is due Russia spending 6% of their GDP on the military.   The US is only spending 3.5% of their GDP on the military.  The inflation rate in Russia is 9% and the interest rates are 18% as of July.   That’s not a pretty picture. 

[Cameroni]

1 hour ago, TedG said:

The GDP growth is due Russia spending 6% of their GDP on the military.   The US is only spending 3.5% of their GDP on the military.  The inflation rate in Russia is 9% and the interest rates are 18% as of July.   That’s not a pretty picture. 

Inflation is an issue, as in the West, but the stellar GDP growth rate is not due to military spending. Russia is not a war economy where all production is geared to produce military materiel. That's just not the case. It's overwhelmingly a civilian economy.