Claiming Legal Fees as Damages in Thai Lawsuits

[ElephantEgo]

When suing someone in Thailand, whether in a civil or criminal case, is it advisable to include legal fees as part of the damages claim? For instance, my wife recently won a defamation case but incurred legal fees of 100,000 THB while only being awarded 50,000 THB in damages.

Our lawyers advised against requesting reimbursement for legal fees, arguing that it is inappropriate because legal fees in Thailand can vary significantly. Is this advice accurate?

The primary damage caused by the defamer was the financial and time burden we had to bear to defend our reputation. This can easily be proven by showing receipts of legal payments during the case.

While it might make the lawyer uncomfortable (due to tax implications), could including legal fees help ensure a fairer verdict? What are your experiences with this in Thailand?

[richard_smith237]

Interesting question...  

 

From a moral perspective - I would think why should the 'victim' have to also pay legal fees

It becomes a little more complex as you (your wife) instigated legal proceedings, but also won, proving that doing so was the correct course of action, but proved more costly in the end - which I'm sure you knew would be the case. 

 

So, you've paid for a moral victory - clear the name so to speak.

 

 

... Had your Wife lost, should she have been expected to pay the legal fees of the defence ?

 

 

[ElephantEgo]

We did not expect to be awarded only 50,000 THB. We sued for 300,000 which is the maximum in the small claims district court. Does anyone on this forum have experience with such things?

[JBChiangRai]

Defamation is a criminal matter, why did you go the expensive route?

 

It can be reported either to the police, or the court and they will pick up the process from then on.

[ElephantEgo]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

Defamation is a criminal matter, why did you go the expensive route?

 

It can be reported either to the police, or the court and they will pick up the process from then on.

Our lawyers did not give us that option. They wanted us to pay them.
I understand about filing a police complaint.... However what is this about reporting to the court? There is a way to report criminal infractions to the court directly and bypass police, and how is that done?

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, ElephantEgo said:

Our lawyers did not give us that option. They wanted us to pay them.
I understand about filing a police complaint.... However what is this about reporting to the court? There is a way to report criminal infractions to the court directly and bypass police, and how is that done?

 

I know it is true for defamation, I'm not sure about other matters. Claiming compensation is expensive and as you found out, your costs were higher.

 

Here is some text and a link

 

If someone is trying to destroy your reputation by making the false statement. You can protect yourself by claiming the defamation case against them. You can file the criminal lawsuit at the court. However, you need to be careful about the statute of limitation. Because the defamation is a compoundable offense (both general and public defamation) which is subject to three months statute of limitation. This means, you have three months from the date that you know the incident and the accused, to file the lawsuit at the court or file the police report at the police station.

Although the defamation is the criminal offense. But if you want to claim the compensation, you also need to file the civil case along with the criminal one. The reason is the court cannot grant the monetary damages to you in the criminal case.

H&P Herrera and Partners - Relevant aspects of a Defamation Case in Thailand (herrera-partners.com)

[ChaiyaTH]

11 hours ago, ElephantEgo said:

When suing someone in Thailand, whether in a civil or criminal case, is it advisable to include legal fees as part of the damages claim? For instance, my wife recently won a defamation case but incurred legal fees of 100,000 THB while only being awarded 50,000 THB in damages.

Our lawyers advised against requesting reimbursement for legal fees, arguing that it is inappropriate because legal fees in Thailand can vary significantly. Is this advice accurate?

The primary damage caused by the defamer was the financial and time burden we had to bear to defend our reputation. This can easily be proven by showing receipts of legal payments during the case.

While it might make the lawyer uncomfortable (due to tax implications), could including legal fees help ensure a fairer verdict? What are your experiences with this in Thailand?

Sounds to me the real issue here was that you started a court case for something insignificant, hence you were only rewarded with 50,000 out of 300,000 baht maximum compensation. So if it was a more proper reason, you likely would have been break-even on the costs, or even have made a small profit?

 

Normally, as lawyers can vary in how much they cost, there is simply standard compensation fees. The lawyer is likely afraid that the judge will laugh at him for billing you so much, and he for that reason cant order the other person to pay for that.

Edited June 25 by ChaiyaTH

[ElephantEgo]

42 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

You can file the criminal lawsuit at the court.

We did file it at the court, using our private lawyer. We did not and were not offered to use public prosecutors. Is it possible to use public prosecutors and if so, how?

 

16 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

The lawyer is likely afraid that the judge will laugh at him for billing you so much, and he for that reason cant order the other person to pay for that.

This is sad. However the fee of 100,000 THB is not too unreasonable. Although the judge income is likely less than that amount for the month... so yeah, it is a lot in their eyes. It seems we could have asked for that but maybe our lawyer was not comfortable to do so.

[ChaiyaTH]

3 minutes ago, ElephantEgo said:

This is sad. However the fee of 100,000 THB is not too unreasonable. Although the judge income is likely less than that amount for the month... so yeah, it is a lot in their eyes. It seems we could have asked for that but maybe our lawyer was not comfortable to do so.

You are aware that you are speaking about like nearly a year minimum wage, like western terms: 15-20K USD, if you say it is reasonable for Thailand? The court here assumes minimum wages, that is why many fines are considered a joke to us aka very low. Like child support by judge is only 3K a month at most.

 

To have received 50,000 baht is actually a lot already I think.

Edited June 25 by ChaiyaTH

[JBChiangRai]

51 minutes ago, ElephantEgo said:

We did file it at the court, using our private lawyer. We did not and were not offered to use public prosecutors. Is it possible to use public prosecutors and if so, how?

 

This is sad. However the fee of 100,000 THB is not too unreasonable. Although the judge income is likely less than that amount for the month... so yeah, it is a lot in their eyes. It seems we could have asked for that but maybe our lawyer was not comfortable to do so.

 

I don't have any direct experience of defamation, I do know you have a choice of police or court for your complaint.  I don't think a lawyer is going to recommend you go to the police and advise himself out of a job.

[Guderian]

@ElephantEgo I'm not sure you can claim the legal costs back under the Thai system. For years, the HOA in the village where I live has been taking individuals to court over unpaid maintenance fees. The trouble is that the village only charges 10K Baht/year, and because both sides have to pay their own fees we make a loss even if we win the case trying to get back a single year's fees (which we invariably do). So we have to wait until there's a minimum of 2 years fees owing and then we at least get something back for our trouble, after deducting our own legal costs. I've long wondered why the HOA does it like that and doesn't ask for the legal fees from the 'guilty' party, and I've always assumed it's not possible here. I'd be interested to know if that's right or not.

[khunPer]

19 hours ago, ElephantEgo said:

When suing someone in Thailand, whether in a civil or criminal case, is it advisable to include legal fees as part of the damages claim? For instance, my wife recently won a defamation case but incurred legal fees of 100,000 THB while only being awarded 50,000 THB in damages.

Our lawyers advised against requesting reimbursement for legal fees, arguing that it is inappropriate because legal fees in Thailand can vary significantly. Is this advice accurate?

The primary damage caused by the defamer was the financial and time burden we had to bear to defend our reputation. This can easily be proven by showing receipts of legal payments during the case.

While it might make the lawyer uncomfortable (due to tax implications), could including legal fees help ensure a fairer verdict? What are your experiences with this in Thailand?

From my knowledge and experience, it's the Court that sets the size of compensation, and that includes compensation for one's legal fees.

 

We have a similar system in my home country, where the Court however specify the legal fees in the compensation; they are (very) low and can be 1/10th or less of actual lawyer costs.

[john donson]

pretty sure I red on legal website or from lawyer, that your lawyer is at your expense, cannot be asked from other party

 

banana republic for something...

[ElephantEgo]

I won another court case recently... and it just so happens that my lawyer said I will be awarded a portion the the main damages asked for, as well as 10,000 THB for the legal fees!

Yes, 10,000 THB when my lawyer's fee was 250,000 THB! Where does the judge come up with this?

My lawyer fee was more than 50% of what I earned from the damn civil case winning!

I do think that, to be given the legal fees back, we would have to ask the judge for that and put it into the claim. However, the lawyer fees in Thailand can range from 25,000 to 250,000 for a similar case, depending on who you hire. Since it is all over the board, one of my lawyers said it can't be asked for in Thailand (the "official" fee is small) but I still question whether this is accurate or not... According to ChatGPT it is not true.

 I just asked ChatGPT 4o about this and it said we can claim the fees in the court cases in Thailand. However the judge will likely award only a portion, and it should all be clearly documented:
https://chatgpt.com/share/90c26402-d266-4906-9850-04c4e0a467ea

 

Again, I don't think the lawyers who get 250k/case really want the court and opposition to know what they are getting, by them putting this into the claims! I could see them putting some lower fake number however.... FFS!

Edited June 25 by ElephantEgo