Thai Isp Using Oversi Grid To Manage P2p Growth

[Mid]

Thai ISP Using Oversi Grid to Manage P2P Growth

PETACH TIKVA, Israel, July 30

True Internet, Thailand's leading Internet service provider (ISP) and one of the fastest-growing providers in Asia, is implementing Oversi's caching and content delivery platform to manage the growing P2P (peer-to-peer) traffic load on its network and optimize the delivery of commercial media content to its customers.

Like many ISPs around the world, True is experiencing a rapid increase in its customer base and P2P traffic per customer. True looked for a scalable system which could optimize network performance, save on international bandwidth and improve its customers' experience.

By delivering bandwidth from the cache nearest to the user, OverCache offers optimal performance using less bandwidth, reduced costs and better quality of service. With its highly scalable grid architecture, OverCache supports unlimited amounts of content -- up to hundreds of gigabits per second -- and millions of users, reducing the need to buy additional bandwidth. True can control the P2P load simply by scaling up the OverCache system in size in its existing network.

gridtoday.com

what does it all mean ??

[A_Traveller]

The aim is to use a caching system within the ISP to reduce multiple international calls to p2p services. See the overview graphic from Oversi

Regards

[Mid]

any idea how big this caching system is ?

is it not moving the bottle neck ??

[A_Traveller]

any idea how big this caching system is ?

is it not moving the bottle neck ??

Good question, the system is scalable {hence the dubious use of the term Grid} but there's no white paper identifying the process. Assumption warning, please take with salt, but one technique would be to cache 'most recent request', on the basis that the majority of people are going for the newest TV programme, or CD, /edit thereby reducing the international traffic.//

Regards

/edit above //

Edited July 30, 2007 by A_Traveller

[A_Traveller]

More on this.

Oversi's OverCache acts as a peer on the P2P network, offering the ISP's users local access to in-demand files. Today, many networks demand reciprocity: for each bit you download, you must upload a bit. This makes traffic from, say Bit Torrent, symmetrical, and many residential networks are asymmetrical, with more download than upload capacity.

Whereas a traditional P2P client would Overload the uplink (and restrict downloading to the speed of the uplink) Oversi's cache gets around this bottleneck because it does not demand reciprocity. Kozlovski says that the OverCache will serve up to 90 percent of a file (and more under ideal conditions). If, for whatever reason, the P2P network is performing well, or if every user on a network is using P2P, the OverCache is capable of serving a smaller percentage of the file and allowing the P2P network to handle the rest of the load.

In addition, OverCache generates a hash for each file it stores. If a subsequent file matches a previously generated hash, it is not stored. Thus, the system avoid storing duplicate files. Since a hash is used, the ISP does not need to inspect the content, which would take time and might expose the ISP to legal liability.

/edit /Cisco are an investor in this privately held company based in Israel. The product is priced based on bandwidth and number of users. ISPs should have at least several tens of thousands of customers in order to populate the usage database that drives the caching engine. Pricing can be based on other metrics, and can involve a revenue share if the ISP prefers. //

Regards

Edited July 30, 2007 by A_Traveller

[Mid]

thanxs for your input ,

finally the downside ,

rare stuff to become even harder to get ?

[A_Traveller]

thanxs for your input ,

finally the downside ,

rare stuff to become even harder to get ?

In theory no, since non cached P2P would be more accessible, since the reciprocity issue would be less of a {pun indented} bone of contention for the ISP {groan}. If a large percentage of P2P traffic was being served by the cache, then the 'odd' request would be more serviceable from the international gateway.

Regards

/edit PS This does assume that the driving goals here would be to BOTH reduce costs for the ISP and improve service for the user base.//

Edited July 30, 2007 by A_Traveller

[mac.wheeler]

Pretty amusing really, we live in a country that will block youtube with one hand and then help people download copyrighted material with the other.

The funny thing is the only copies left of that offending video are probably floating around the P2P networks

[RKASA]

Sounds like all P2P traffic will get redireacted to a location that they can control content, which means there won't be much. Thailand is building a firewall and control gate modeled after China.

[Richard-BKK]

Sometimes I download torrents at speeds of 104kb then the amount of seeders go's down 1 or 2 and I left with only 4 or 5kb. One or two hours I see the amount of seeders get higher with one or two and I do 100kb download again.

So I belief that losing some seeds can effect the download speed seriously, and one seed is just like you and me. Our computers are sometimes turned off.....

[A_Traveller]

In principal the system should present itself as a multi seed source and use management within the rig to achieve this. Alternatively,since the source is 'local' then performance should be enhanced when one is downloading a cached file. Curiously enough True were also supposed to be users of PeerApp. Does this mean they have switched or, worst option, will be trying to run both!

There are some none technical 'white papers' on the PeerApp site.

Regards

[Veazer]

...Oversi's OverCache acts as a peer on the P2P network, offering the ISP's users local access to in-demand files... [deleted]

Which means they will likely be caching, and serving, pornographic material and thus we must arrest these immoral ISPs according to recently implemented thai laws, yes?

[A_Traveller]

...Oversi's OverCache acts as a peer on the P2P network, offering the ISP's users local access to in-demand files... [deleted]

Which means they will likely be caching, and serving, pornographic material and thus we must arrest these immoral ISPs according to recently implemented thai laws, yes?

Had a small private wager with a colleague about how long it would be before someone raised this. I do wonder about this, not because of content per se, but the whole proxy issue as well. The aim is to use a hash technique to protect the ISP as well as the operation of the "system cache" safe harbour provisions of {512b DMCA} against copyright infringement charges {that might be questionable though, especially in a Thai environment}.

Regards

/edit add 512b + Thai environment//

Edited July 31, 2007 by A_Traveller

[Veazer]

Had a small private wager with a colleague about how long it would be before someone raised this. I do wonder about this, not because of content per se, but the whole proxy issue as well. The aim is to use a hash technique to protect the ISP as well as the operation of the "system cache" safe harbour provisions of {512b DMCA} against copyright infringement charges {that might be questionable though, especially in a Thai environment}.

Regards

/edit add 512b + Thai environment//

That would seem to cover the intellectual property issue but what will happen when someone points out that a Thai ISP is inadvertently distributing something über taboo like kiddie porn? The powers at be would likely want some kind of content inspection system put into place so they won't lose face but at that point they are no longer protected by the 512b clause, as I understand it, because in the process of scanning for porn/etc they will be aware that they are providing access to copyrighted materials. Unless of course they block those from the cache along with the porn, in which case the system loses 90% of its effectiveness because the highly sought torrents are no longer cached. catch 22....

This must have been discussed somewhere before, i'm just throwing out issues that immediately come to mind.

[A_Traveller]

That would seem to cover the intellectual property issue but what will happen when someone points out that a Thai ISP is inadvertently distributing something über taboo like kiddie porn? The powers at be would likely want some kind of content inspection system put into place so they won't lose face but at that point they are no longer protected by the 512b clause, as I understand it, ...

Position is complex, hence my original 'questionable' comment. However, the distribution would be configured to be inward facing, that is to the ISP network only, therefore if a problematic torrent which had been hashed & cached was identified then it could be purged, without scanning. However, as you say if the 'powers' want scanning then there are legal {copyright, ISP responsibility etc.} issues which come into play.

One point not being raised is the fact that the system will be able to record users P2P activity, which would for example make it possible to create limits and charges for those using more throughput, etc..

Regards

[Veazer]

That would seem to cover the intellectual property issue but what will happen when someone points out that a Thai ISP is inadvertently distributing something über taboo like kiddie porn? The powers at be would likely want some kind of content inspection system put into place so they won't lose face but at that point they are no longer protected by the 512b clause, as I understand it, ...

Position is complex, hence my original 'questionable' comment. However, the distribution would be configured to be inward facing, that is to the ISP network only, therefore if a problematic torrent which had been hashed & cached was identified then it could be purged, without scanning. However, as you say if the 'powers' want scanning then there are legal {copyright, ISP responsibility etc.} issues which come into play.

One point not being raised is the fact that the system will be able to record users P2P activity, which would for example make it possible to create limits and charges for those using more throughput, etc..

Regards

Good points. This is an extremely complex issue the more I look at it.

Regarding your last point about user tracking, it seems like this could be avoided since the OverCache "pseudo peer" could be banned just like anyone else by the end user. Any attempt to disguise it would be futile since the cache would reveal itself pretty quickly by the unusual amount of bandwidth available. What do you think? I'm not sure if your statement regarding throughput is applicable, since they can check that without this caching system. So long as all traffic is going through them, they can meter it. It seems like the users who were using high bandwidth internationally and not utilizing the cache would be a better target for limiting & higher rates.

Your point about tracking the end user brings up yet another issue, what will they do with the end user who repeatedly attempts to download material considered illegal? If they see that Somchai has tried to download gobs of porn and the Dummies Guide to Overthrowing Governments, does that give them probable cause to make a seizure of his system? Better yet, they could leave it in the cache to prove that he indeed DID download it.

This is very interesting.

[paveet]

Sounds like all P2P traffic will get redireacted to a location that they can control content, which means there won't be much. Thailand is building a firewall and control gate modeled after China.

I don't think this has anything to do with censorship, but rather saving the ISP's money on the expensive bandwidth.

[nikster]

Pretty amusing really, we live in a country that will block youtube with one hand and then help people download copyrighted material with the other.

The funny thing is the only copies left of that offending video are probably floating around the P2P networks

Don't kid yourself into thinking they do this to help their customers. They do it to save international bandwidth, and, thereby, cost. Not a bad thing of course.

The whole system sounds like a pimped-up P2P client to me. I mean - P2P clients do all of that already, hashes and so on. And adding a cache system is trivial.

Nonetheless, It's very useful for the ISP, especially for countries outside the U.S. where most connections are going to hit the expensive international links.

What is interesting is that this doesn't work all by its own, without any cache. Because it should - that's the whole point of a P2P network. If there are 1000 people in Thailand downloading the same file, in theory, the P2P network should download said file only one time over the international link, and the 1000 downloaders in Thailand should get each 1/1000th of the complete file from international sources, and the rest from each other. That's the theory of course, practice won't be that efficient.

I guess this caching program makes it so the P2P operates at near max. efficiency, and also caches stuff that individual users may not leave lying around. Simple, but pretty cool actually.