For me, the conversations we’ve been having here on racism and, more particularly, antisemitism have been very instructive. I’ve learned a lot by talking with all of you.

Most of us are familiar with the story of the good German, the ordinary person who followed orders, no matter how far against morality or humanity they went.

Eichmann’s defence at Nuremburg was, “I was only following orders.” They hanged him anyway.

You see, that’s not good enough. We all like to think of ourselves as better humans, better than that, surely.

But, in reality, I think very, very few of us, a minuscule proportion, ever resist orders. For example, “Food and drink are not allowed on the BTS Skytrain system.” Do you break that rule?

Even when we break the rule, such as carrying a cup of coffee onto the train, we’re furtive about it, as if someone in authority might scold us.

Or, in Nazi Germany, far worse than scolding.

How about plea bargains: “You’ll shave years off your sentence after certain conviction, if you just tell us this.” Or pressure to a false confession or false accusations..

Even I, a lifelong rebel, activist, agitator, troublemaker, find myself obeying almost all the rules. Why? Well, for one thing, we intrinsically don’t want to disappoint  anyone, including those in authority, the boss, for example. And we certainly don’t want any trouble!

Mostly, we follow rules made by <who knows> because it’s easier. It makes things smoother, more convenient for a largely hassle-free life.

But we will never meet those who made and make the rules, never. Some of the rules are ridiculous or antiquated or no longer apply. But rules are rules, right.

Books have been written about the Nazi phenomenon, complete cult worship for no benefit to society. But the Germans followed the rules, in fact the breakdown of morality. Almost no Aryan Germans or Jews resisted that authority, with very few exceptions.

There was Dietrich Bonhöffer, the Weiße Rose students, and the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. Any other resistance was passive, done discreetly to avoid the attention of the authorities. Both in the streets and in the camps.

Many war resisters were guillotined in Berlin, as were Christians. I have recorded them in one of my books. We have to, we have to, remember their names, or we are less than human.

I have written about the scourge of nationalism before but Nazi Germany really nails that down über alles.

What occasioned this post is a 2015 movie called Experimenter, about the obedience experiments of Dr Stanley Milgram. The level of obedience elicited is shocking.

It should cause us all to examine our own decisions of right or wrong. I don’t mean only us personally but what we support: right or wrong. This requires a great deal of self-examination.

Experimenter is not a documentary, it is a re-creation of Dr. Milgram’s work. It is notable he was Jewish, as were many of his fellow psychology professors. The Albanian prof’s story is especially chilling. His story is untrue, and I will not repeat it here. But it did happen in Romania.

Should you really want to explore further, there are documentaries on YouTube, Milgram’s own books, and scores of others. Why? Because none of us can understand the good German, how could they do this, this isn’t me.

Until it does become us. Group-think, obedience. We all need somebody lower than us.  We don’t often think this aloud, but it’s there, waiting, all the time.

The most extreme examples are soldiers & executioners. They do terrible things that, were they not legalised, would result in life in prison. I can’t imagine what they tell their families, their children, their parents.

In the case of the Nazis, it was Jews. Why? Jews in Germany were friends, neighbours, colleagues. They weren't feared. But the hate was lying just below the surface. Hitler used that to achieve national unity.

For us, perhaps it’s child abusers or drug dealers or kids with tattoos, Iranians. Tattooed Iranian paedophile drug dealers! It can be that simple. Right or wrong? Choose.

At heart, I’m being convinced that every one of us bears that racism inside. Even Jews are antisemites. So, deny this, if you wish. But I believe we all hate somebody or something. Most of us will not resist, we’ll do as we’re told.

Remaining silent in the face of injustice is not resistance. Hannah Arendt:

Niemand hat ein Recht darauf, zu gehorchen.                 

“Nobody has the right to obey.”

We are all antisemites. Watch Experimenter.

Further reading.

Hannah Arendt, Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on The Banality of Evil, 1964.

Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951

Arendt, Crises of the Republic: Lying in Politics, Civil Disobedience, On Violence, Thoughts on Politics and Revolution, 1972.

Blass, The Man Who Shocked the World: The Life and Legacy of Stanley Milgram, 2004.

Blass, The roots of Stanley Milgram’s obedience experiments and their relevance to the Holocaust, 1998.

Fermaglich, American Dreams and Nazi Nightmares: Early Holocaust Consciousness, 2007.

Daniel Jonah Goldhagen. Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust., 1996.

Milgram, “Behavioral Study of Obedience”, 1963.

Milgram, Obedience to Authority: An Experimental View, 1974.

G. Miller, “If Someone Secretly Controlled What You Say, Would Anybody Notice?”, 2014.

Perry, Behind the Shock Machine: The untold story of the notorious Milgram psychology experiments, 2013.

Bettina Stangneth, Eichmann Before Jerusalem: The Unexamined Life of a Mass Murderer, 2014.

9 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

There was Dietrich Bonhöffer, the Weiße Rose students, and the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. Any other resistance was passive, done discreetly to avoid the attention of the authorities. Both in the streets and in the camps.

Many war resisters were guillotined in Berlin, as were Christians. I have recorded them in one of my books. We have to, we have to, remember their names, or we are less than human.

Remember the White Rose. Resist authoritarianism.

10 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

We are all antisemites.

The term "antisemitic" use to mean "people who hate jews." I understand that and agree with that definition although to term "Semitic" is misused with European jews who do not come from West Asia.
Now the term "antisemitic" has morphed to means "anyone daring to criticize the state of Israel and its ethno-supremacist, apartheid rule and genocidal behavior against Palestinians and Arabs" Therefore the term "antisemitic" has lost is meaning and has simply become a pejorative term used to attack critics of Israel.

Fyi - I don't discriminate against people based on their race or religion. I "hate" very few people and that hatred is aimed at their behavior and not there race or religion.

Now you can extend your argument. Everyone are racists. I might agree that all people in this world harbor a propensity toward nationalism and ethnocentrism.
But everyone is antisemitic? - I don't buy that for a second.

2 minutes ago, connda said:

The term "antisemitic" use to mean "people who hate jews." I understand that and agree with that definition although to term "Semitic" is misused with European jews who do not come from West Asia.
Now the term "antisemitic" means "anyone daring to criticize the state of Israel and its ethno-supremacist, apartheid rule and genocidal behavior against Palestinians and Arabs"
Therefore the term "antisemitic" has lost is meaning and has simply become a pejorative term used to attack critics of Israel.

Fyi - I don't discriminate against people based on their religion. I "hate" very few people and that hatred is aimed at their behavior and not there race or religion.

Now you can extend your argument. Everyone are racists. I might agree that all people in this world harbor a propensity toward nationalism and ethnocentrism.
But everyone is antisemitic - I don't buy that.

The term has always been misused, and continues to be misused by the ignorant masses. Why I chuckle when idiots use it, simply exposing their ignorance and prejudices.

If they only knew how funny & ridiculously they are. Please don't enlighten them, taking the joy out of my daily reading.

Interesting about the 'white rose', had to google that.

13 minutes ago, connda said:

The term "antisemitic" use to mean "people who hate jews." I understand that and agree with that definition although to term "Semitic" is misused with European jews who do not come from West Asia.
Now the term "antisemitic" has morphed to means "anyone daring to criticize the state of Israel and its ethno-supremacist, apartheid rule and genocidal behavior against Palestinians and Arabs" Therefore the term "antisemitic" has lost is meaning and has simply become a pejorative term used to attack critics of Israel.

Fyi - I don't discriminate against people based on their race or religion. I "hate" very few people and that hatred is aimed at their behavior and not there race or religion.

Now you can extend your argument. Everyone are racists. I might agree that all people in this world harbor a propensity toward nationalism and ethnocentrism.
But everyone is antisemitic? - I don't buy that for a second.

The antisemitic in the title was just meant to get people excited. I already did a post on racism which never reached a conclusion. This post is meant to be something different--blind obedience to authority.

2 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

What occasioned this post is a 2015 movie called Experimenter, about the obedience experiments of Dr Stanley Milgram. The level of obedience elicited is shocking.

Never saw that.

But they made a film based on a real science experiment called "The Stanford Prison Experiment".

Human behavior is malleable, able to be manipulated, and dependent on circumstances. And just about anyone is capable of behaving badly.

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Interesting about the 'white rose', had to google that.

Some very brave young dissentients in Nazi German who spoke out about the Nazi genocide and other acts of inhuman violence, and paid the ultimate price. Respect! I first learned of them from a story about the lives of Hans and Sophie Scholl. Very moving and also a role model for those of us who speak out (dissidence) and attempt to speak truth to power.

Which is why I speak out about the Israeli genocide of Palestinians. You'd think they learned something from the Nazi genocide other than how to use it as a template. And by the way, you'll be told that speaking out about the IDF genocide in Gaza, the West Bank, and Southern Lebanon is antisemitic. The word has lost it's meaning. Labeling me as antisemitic for cliticizing the Israeli government isn't going to stop me. They need to be criticized. Loud and often.

3 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

The antisemitic in the title was just meant to get people excited. I already did a post on racism which never reached a conclusion. This post is meant to be something different--blind obedience to authority.

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

Never saw that.

But they made a film based on a real science experiment called "The Stanford Prison Experiment".

Human behavior is malleable, able to be manipulated, and dependent on circumstances. And just about anyone is capable of behaving badly.

The first thing that really got my attention 50+ years ago in university was the Milgram experiment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment Amazing what people in positions of authority can accomplish. And that probably explains why my entire life from University onwards that I Question Authority. Everyone should. Questioning Authority is self-evident. The Milgram Experiment explains why.

It is of extreme importance to differentiate between people protesting against Israel's approach to this war in Gaza, and antisemitism. They are two completely different things, however Israel is an extremely thin skinned nation, and very intolerant of any sort of criticism. As a Jew I know that many Jews are thin-skinned when it comes to any sort of criticism of Israel, and it's often interpreted as being anti-semitic.

I've been called a Jew hater for criticizing Israeli policy so I know how sensitive the issue can be, and it's very important to interpret it correctly. Jews and all people have the right to be critical of Israeli policy, especially now that the extremists have taken over, gotten the support of a hateful PM, and are engaging in what could be called a ridiculously disproportionate campaign against the Gazans. Many call it genocide. And it would appear as though their goal is in trying to erase the Palestinian population.

Israel must be very careful at this point as they are losing support around the world, by the day it's gotten to the point where there are very few nations who are still supportive of Israel, and the IDF. If the US withdrew it's support, it would put them in dire straits, and very isolated. And we might be looking at a failed state. They deserve that, in my opinion. I believe all the lessons of the Holocaust have been forgotten within the current very sad state of affairs in Israel.

Am I a Jew hater? Absolutely not, as I have many Jewish friends and family that I adore. Do I hate Israel? Certainly not the people, but I do hate the current Israeli government. Much as I hate the current American government, it doesn't make me an America hater, though the fake patriots on this forum would argue otherwise.

No kind of racism is acceptable in a civilised world.

But on seeing how innocent civilians are slaughtered on a daily basis, how their land is being stolen, what other reaction is to be expected ?

1 minute ago, SingAPorn said:

No kind of racism is acceptable in a civilised world.

But on seeing how innocent civilians are slaughtered on a daily basis, how their land is being stolen, what other reaction is to be expected ?

Make your mind up, is it acceptable or not ?

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Make your mind up, is it acceptable or not ?

What is acceptable by your standards if I may ask ? The slaughtering of civilians ?

46 minutes ago, connda said:

And by the way, you'll be told that speaking out about the IDF genocide in Gaza, the West Bank, and Southern Lebanon is antisemitic. .... They need to be criticized. Loud and often.

Welcome to my world, been called anti semitic many times on this forum but the many ignorant folks.

16 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

As a Jew I know that many Jews are thin-skinned when it comes to any sort of criticism of Israel, and it's often interpreted as being anti-semitic.

Then I have immense respect for you. You probably get the same flak as  Max Blumenthal and Jewish journalists like him. I know many young Jewish kids who are incredibility critical of Israeli government policy, and I have a ton of respect for them too.

13 minutes ago, SingAPorn said:

What is acceptable by your standards if I may ask ? The slaughtering of civilians ?

I am asking you

Is it acceptable or not ?

58 minutes ago, connda said:

And by the way, you'll be told that speaking out about the IDF genocide in Gaza, the West Bank, and Southern Lebanon is antisemitic.

No , you will NOT be told that .

20 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Welcome to my world, been called anti semitic many times on this forum but the many ignorant folks.

Imagining a World without Jews and how much better the World would be , is actually anti semitic .

You make anti sematic remarks and get labeled as such .

18 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Imagining a World without Jews and how much better the World would be , is actually anti semitic .

You make anti sematic remarks and get labeled as such .

I'm not imagining the world without Jews, as it was an imaginary what if scenario. Just in the EU & ME. A little reading comprehension never hurts.

I have no problem with Jews, in general, as I only know the ones in my family. I do have issue with the policies enforced by the expansionist zionist, which exert a tyrannical control over the Palestinians, as they steal their land to expand and build new settlements.

I suppose you think that is just fine & dandy.

Along with ignoring almost every UN Resolution given to them.

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I'm not imagining the world without Jews, as it was an imaginary what if scenario. Just in the EU & ME. A little reading comprehension never hurts.

I have no problem with Jews, in general, as I only know the ones in my family. I do have issue with the policies enforced by the expansionist zionist, which exert a tyrannical control over the Palestinians, as they steal their land to expand and build new settlements.

I suppose you think that is just fine & dandy.

Along with ignoring almost every UN Resolution given to them.

Wasn't L.A a new settlement built on stolen indigenous American Indian Land ?

11 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I'm not imagining the world without Jews, as it was an imaginary what if scenario. Just in the EU & ME. A little reading comprehension never hurts.

What you posted :

You quite clearly stated "The world*

Its NOT my comprehension that is the issue

8 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Kind of makes you wonder if Adolf succeeded, what would the world, EU & Middle East, be like today

7 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Wasn't L.A a new settlement built on stolen indigenous American Indian Land ?

Standard Zionist argument about something that happened before the Human Race tried to regulate by International Law after 2 World Wars some form of Human decency.

Still doesn't make it right what Israel has done in the Middle East.

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Wasn't L.A a new settlement built on stolen indigenous American Indian Land ?

What does that have to do with the topic, but yes, you are correct. The Spanish were a brutal lot back in the day, as where the Brits & French. Us Yanks were too busy trying to get out from under England's thump, to really bother with things that far west of the 13 colonies. USA 1776-1789, than again 1812. Quite the annoying lot. Your point ????

Also, since you're so PC, not sure it's PC to call them American Indians, and probably would offend them. As they were neither. If want to debate history of the 'New World' you may want to start another thread, and definitely do some research first, as now, you really ain't ready.

From Google AI ...

5 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Standard Zionist argument about something that happened before the Human Race tried to regulate by International Law after 2 World Wars some form of Human decency.

Still doesn't make it right what Israel has done in the Middle East.

You could correct previous mistakes and give your Country back to the Aborigines ?

Jews have more rights to live in Israel, then you do to live in Australia

@KhunLA

You could correct previous mistakes and give your Country back to the American Indians

Jews have more rights to live in Israel, then you do to live in USA

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

"The World would be a better have if Hitler was successful and Jews no longer existed and you cannot even criticise the Israeli Government without be accused of being an anti Semite , thats because Jews control the media and the banks "

Na, just a new one to hate will arrive, and honestly, what is the difference between a Jew, christian and a muslim? And what do they share and have in common?

4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

You could correct previous mistakes and give your Country back to the Aborigines ?

Jews have more rights to live in Israel, then you do to live in Australia

Not from Australia.

Jews can live wherever they want, as long as they comply with the law, as a majority do, wherever they live, same as any other people.

Sadly Israeli's think they are above the law.

16 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

What you posted :

You quite clearly stated "The world*

Its NOT my comprehension that is the issue

Reading comprehension .... again. You even quoted the 'EU & ME' part.

Yes, would would the world be like, IF, Germany controlled the 'EU & ME' ????

Why and how would the 'world' be without Jews, if Germany controlled EU & ME ? Are we actually going to debate a totally hypothetical, never happened or well ever happen scenario ?

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Na, just a new one to hate will arrive, and honestly, what is the difference between a Jew, christian and a muslim? And what do they share and have in common?

They all have imaginary friends that required their followers to have nothing but blind obedience to the deities at the head of said cults.

2 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Not from Australia.

Jews can live wherever they want, as long as they comply with the law, as a majority do, wherever they live, same as any other people.

Sadly Israeli's think they are above the law.

That is a pure Anti semetic post

Undeniably .

Israelis is do not think that they are above the law .

Israelis actually get held accountable for their actions .

Others often get a free pass

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

That is a pure Anti semetic post

Undeniably .

Israelis is do not think that they are above the law .

Israelis actually get held accountable for their actions .

Others often get a free pass

Go tell that to the UN.

17 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

@KhunLA

You could correct previous mistakes and give your Country back to the American Indians

Jews have more rights to live in Israel, then you do to live in USA

My original ancestors came over with William Penn, and even though were deeded land by the King, preferred to negotiate peacefully with the Lenape. As my people settled in their area, sort of, the Brandywine Valley as it's known today.

I think Lenape Park is, was in that area also, though no longer in operation, renamed Brandywine Picnic Park, if memory serves. Actually, there was a bunch of Lenape Parks in the tri state areas.

What happen after my folks got there, well, we had no control of that. Blame game someone else.