DTV issued

[FritsSikkink]

8 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

Thinking Indian call centres may answer from Thailand in the near future

That would be quite dumb, as cost of living is more expensive in Thailand than in India.

[humbug]

10 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Yeah.. the 5 year elites are not going to sell now are they !! 

It looked like under the 'soft power' category you can go to a thai cooking school and get 5 years.. Really is a wild option 5 year ME 180 days a pop (and 1x 180 day extension) but I travel a bit so that just fine by me. 

Isn't it just 180 days us one more 180 days in a 5 year period?

 

How will this compete with a 5 year continued stay visa, or are people getting mixed messages, in how long they can use the visa for

[Lorry]

8 hours ago, mstevens said:

 

 

I first visited Thailand when it had about 4 million visitors per year. Bangkok was very dirty with piles of rubbish, the city smelled bad, shopping for anything not made locally was crap, restaurant choice was limited once you got bored of Thai food, English was much poorer than today, getting around was a nightmare, it flooded really badly in many places during the rainy season....and I could go on. Today, Bangkok is much easier to get around, there's so much more to see and do, things work so much better than the past and I am keen to stay longer than I did in the past. Oh, that's right, Bangkok gets about 40 million people visitors today, 10 times what it did when I first visited, and it's so much better today. I wouldn't think that more visitors will make it worse because so far, that has not happened.

Correct. 

Bangkok has actually become so good to be almost indistinguishable from home country. 

So, why live in Bangkok?

[wmlc]

Not the first, one of my clients also got his yesterday. About the visa paper, just keep the e-visa to show immigration when entering. You don't carry it around with you. Why would you think that? When you enter at the airport, they stamp your passport with your permission to stay and that's all that matters. Just like all other e visas. Secondly, you can't get a work permit to work remotely in Thailand for a foreign company that is not registered here. Foreigners often think you need a work permit to work remotely, but you don't. On the DTV and on one of the categories of the LTR, you have permission to work remotely here as long as you don't involve in business activities in Thailand, such as selling your services or products to people here. Don't waste your time going to MOL. If your plan was to get the DTV and then promote your services or products for sale in Thailand without registering your company and thinking they will issue you a work permit, you were sadly mistaken. Don't get caught up in the myth that you need a work permit to work remotely on your outside Thailand business activities. The Thai government openly advertises workations. 

Edited July 18 by wmlc

[FritsSikkink]

8 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Correct. 

Bangkok has actually become so good to be almost indistinguishable from home country. 

So, why live in Bangkok?

It is way better than home country.

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

At this point, the DTV really looks an absolute game changer in Thai Visas. 

 

Theres downsides, especially if you dont travel.. The 2x 180 aspect.. 

For me its the working online legality aspect, I know this was unenforced but I want to be 100% compliant, I dont want to ever be in a position where someone can report me for some dissagreement, or answer why I have a full well equipped home office with files etc. 

I still think I will move to the LTR for the 0% tax aspect, I just needed a visa to come back with and thought I would give it a go. 

[LivinLOS]

39 minutes ago, humbug said:

Isn't it just 180 days us one more 180 days in a 5 year period?

 

How will this compete with a 5 year continued stay visa, or are people getting mixed messages, in how long they can use the visa for

My belief is that is it 180 days as many times as you like (thats how ME's work now) with 1x a 180 extension possible (unsure cost, assume 1900 but I did read a 10k baht back when it was all a vague PR idea) and no more hence 360 days needing a border run. So like a ME TR is 60+30 as much as you like this is 180+180 as much as you like. 

I think thats a fair assumption to the process but we will discover. 

[LivinLOS]

25 minutes ago, wmlc said:

Foreigners often think you need a work permit to work remotely, but you don't. 

Flat out incorrect, according to many many statements by the labour office, immigration, court cases (deported people doing exactly this), the BOI, the Elite people, the 'my mate nate' youtuber saga, may respectecd legal companies, etc. 

It is poorly enforced but if you are an agent and dealing with advising clients and claiming it is actually legal, everything you say is now suspect. 

Why do you think the royal decree on this states "work remotely in a special case as relating to this announcement" ??

[Presnock]

10 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Thai employment is prohibited.. This class cannot support a work permit for incountry work 

The royal decree has a few lines of "work remotely in a special case as relating to this announcement" which is fair to assume means this really is tolerating online work, interesting the LTR royal decree does not seem to indicate this for the classes they say it applies to (or at least I cant see it).

The DTV royal decree is here https://t.co/2BcD1bxPWf

With a boi ltr the boi helps with a work permit to allow in country employment.

[anrcaccount]

9 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

Theres downsides, especially if you dont travel.. The 2x 180 aspect.. 

For me its the working online legality aspect, I know this was unenforced but I want to be 100% compliant, I dont want to ever be in a position where someone can report me for some dissagreement, or answer why I have a full well equipped home office with files etc. 

I still think I will move to the LTR for the 0% tax aspect, I just needed a visa to come back with and thought I would give it a go. 

 

I understand your position but I believe this DTV is equally as legitimate for "working online" as the equivalent LTR category (Working from Thailand Professionals), and also even more legitimate than the various Employer of Record or Umbrella companies that operate.

 

Outside of the dubiously worded, up for debate and non enforced foreign tax exemption.....I cannot see a single reason now why anyone would use either the LTR WFTP category or any EOR, now the DTV exists.

 

 

[Presnock]

53 minutes ago, humbug said:

Isn't it just 180 days us one more 180 days in a 5 year period?

 

How will this compete with a 5 year continued stay visa, or are people getting mixed messages, in how long they can use the visa for

I really have not thought that one could obtain this visa and then spend at lleast 180 days every year of the 5 years in Thailand...I thougtht it would meant a total of 360 days and then that person could not get another DTV until after the original 5 year visa issued.  But, I am no expert on Thai visas so... good luck.

[anrcaccount]

13 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

My belief is that is it 180 days as many times as you like (thats how ME's work now) with 1x a 180 extension possible (unsure cost, assume 1900 but I did read a 10k baht back when it was all a vague PR idea) and no more hence 360 days needing a border run. So like a ME TR is 60+30 as much as you like this is 180+180 as much as you like. 

I think thats a fair assumption to the process but we will discover. 

You're correct.

 

Credible sources report now an extension is the normal 1900 as are all extensions, applied for at the tourist visa extension counter.

 

Not 10000 per extension.

 

 

 

 

[Presnock]

42 minutes ago, wmlc said:

Not the first, one of my clients also got his yesterday. About the visa paper, just keep the e-visa to show immigration when entering. You don't carry it around with you. Why would you think that? When you enter at the airport, they stamp your passport with your permission to stay and that's all that matters. Just like all other e visas. Secondly, you can't get a work permit to work remotely in Thailand for a foreign company that is not registered here. Foreigners often think you need a work permit to work remotely, but you don't. On the DTV and on one of the categories of the LTR, you have permission to work remotely here as long as you don't involve in business activities in Thailand, such as selling your services or products to people here. Don't waste your time going to MOL. If your plan was to get the DTV and then promote your services or products for sale in Thailand without registering your company and thinking they will issue you a work permit, you were sadly mistaken. Don't get caught up in the myth that you need a work permit to work remotely on your outside Thailand business activities. The Thai government openly advertises workations. 

The boi ltr does get assistance from the boi in obtaining a Thai work permit....now what that allows one to do, I sure don't know but I also have seen nothing about tax exemptions under the DTV as there currently is with the LTR.  Like too much with visas and permits, immigration, boi etc, I am less than a novice but have a belief in the chances of a bad situation concenring any of them, does impact on what I do sign up for.  I like the LTR, have read tons about it, including the royal decree, translations, etc and yeah they could possibly withdraw that tax exemption.  But there is still the DTA and until they decide that they will toss that treaty away from the t61 countries with which they have such treaties, then I will still feel okay about staying here.  All we as expats can do about any of this is accept what comes around and then decide to stay or go somewhere else.  Many other countries are making decisions on these new taxes too and some will be good for expats and some not so good.  I hope all here have good luck!

12 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

I understand your position but I believe this DTV is equally as legitimate for "working online" as the equivalent LTR category (Working from Thailand Professionals), and also even more legitimate than the various Employer of Record or Umbrella companies that operate.

 

Outside of the dubiously worded, up for debate and non enforced foreign tax exemption.....I cannot see a single reason now why anyone would use either the LTR WFTP category or any EOR, now the DTV exists.

 

 

I have yet to see anywhere that the DTV holder can remit foreign income tax free.  where is that written?

 

[LivinLOS]

8 minutes ago, Presnock said:

With a boi ltr the boi helps with a work permit to allow in country employment.

Talking 2 totally different things. 

1) yes the BOI LTR categories can support a local work permit. 

2) the BOI also claim (exactly like the Elite people used to and the 'agent' does above) that working for a non Thai company or freelance online is 'OK'.. When evidence shows that is wrong. 

As I have posted in other threads after my first BOI video call when they told me that, I went to my local labour office, who told me in 100% clear terms that no, online work is work and while they were not actively looking for people it wasnt legal. I went back to the BOI who again assured me it was legal, I asked them were 'in law' this was written, at which point the BOI rep started back tracking and said 'well we have an understanding with the labour dept, you cant get in trouble' I explained I had just spoken to the labour dept and they said it was not legal and that you could, I also said that as a lawyer he must realise something is either in the state as law or isnt, anything else is only poor enforcement of law and are you saying it is legal or simply unenforced? he got uncomfortable and squirmy in the video call and said it wasnt in law but it was ok, you wont get in trouble.. A very Thai style response and no different than the elite folks said early on (people deported for online work on the elite now) and people like the above poster have said for any visa class. 

As I was applying for the LTR I didnt keep pushing him but it was obvious at that point. 

[humbug]

8 minutes ago, Presnock said:

I really have not thought that one could obtain this visa and then spend at lleast 180 days every year of the 5 years in Thailand...I thougtht it would meant a total of 360 days and then that person could not get another DTV until after the original 5 year visa issued.  But, I am no expert on Thai visas so... good luck.

That is what I mentioned, 180 days plus one more 180 days, so 360 days out of 5 years, then I presume, the immigration would stamp 'used' after the extension

 

I didn't know, then the person would have to wait 5 years before they obtain another dtv, maybe at that point, the thai gov. hope people would apply for LTR or Elite, to continue their stay for the next 5 or 10 years

[Presnock]

11 hours ago, shdmn said:

It's 180 days with one 180 extension allowed, and says it prominently in the official documentation.

Yessir it does say that qhich equals 360 days TOTAL during the 5-year period...then possibly the holder cannot obtain another 5-year BTV until the original 5 years has expired.  I too am only guessing.

[LivinLOS]

15 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

I understand your position but I believe this DTV is equally as legitimate for "working online" as the equivalent LTR category (Working from Thailand Professionals), and also even more legitimate than the various Employer of Record or Umbrella companies that operate.

 

Outside of the dubiously worded, up for debate and non enforced foreign tax exemption.....I cannot see a single reason now why anyone would use either the LTR WFTP category or any EOR, now the DTV exists.

 

 

Single reasons would be legally agreed low or no tax on LTR categories and 10 years visa in 2 5 year chunks, no 180 day limits, and 1 year (90 day) reporting. 

I would still move tot he LTR for the tax clearance, I imported almost 5m baht last year without a tax record overseas for it (fully legal of course I pay taxes on employment elsewhere) as it was from global consultancy work while I reside here. 

LTR is still massively appealing for high earners. 

[LivinLOS]

18 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

I understand your position but I believe this DTV is equally as legitimate for "working online" as the equivalent LTR category (Working from Thailand Professionals), and also even more legitimate than the various Employer of Record or Umbrella companies that operate.

As in my other post, I actually think it is more legitimate than the BOI as it is exempted in the royal gazette which I have not been able to see the LTR is. 

[anrcaccount]

Just now, Presnock said:

have yet to see anywhere that the DTV holder can remit foreign income tax free.  where is that written?

 

Nothing is written - but please, do not turn this thread into another debate on tax, we have far too many of those already. 

 

My fault for bringing the T word in though! 

 

On your other point, BOI don't grant work permits for the WFT P LTR category, as they are working for a foreign entity. This is the closest LTR equivalent category to the new DTV.

[LivinLOS]

7 minutes ago, Presnock said:

 I like the LTR, have read tons about it, including the royal decree, translations, etc and yeah they could possibly withdraw that tax exemption. 

They wont, and exactly why I still prefer it and will reapply later in the year. 0% tax on non domestic income in law. 

[Presnock]

1 minute ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Nothing is written - but please, do not turn this thread into another debate on tax, we have far too many of those already. 

 

My fault for bringing the T word in though! 

 

On your other point, BOI don't grant work permits for the WFT P LTR category, as they are working for a foreign entity. This is the closest LTR equivalent category to the new DTV.

well, As I have said I am no expert on Thai visas, As for the LTR work permit, I don't know anything about it except it was advertised in the LTR benefits in the event that one wantied to work while on the LTR.

Good luck with whatever you sign up for.

[Presnock]

Just now, LivinLOS said:

They wont, and exactly why I still prefer it and will reapply later in the year. 0% tax on non domestic income in law. 

We are  100% in agreement and that is why I got mine earlier this year...plus no 90-day reports either.

[LivinLOS]

8 minutes ago, Presnock said:

I have yet to see anywhere that the DTV holder can remit foreign income tax free.  where is that written?

It isnt, I am operating under the assumption that all remitted funds are 'potentially tax liable' the same as TR or non imm classes. 

As such I have my tax mitigation strategy involve gifts to the wife and only importing to myself income that is always taxed at source under a DTA. Cross border taxation is my specialism so am taking extreme care. 

[oldcpu]

53 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Outside of the dubiously worded, up for debate and non enforced foreign tax exemption.....I cannot see a single reason now why anyone would use either the LTR WFTP category or any EOR, now the DTV exists.

 

 

Let me give you one reason:  Some of us in our 70s and 80s do not want to have to travel to leave the country every year.

[anrcaccount]

11 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Let me give you one reason:  Some of us in our 70s and 80s do not want to have to travel to leave the country every year.

 

That's fair, I completely understand.

 

But you wouldn't be on either of those categories ("LTR WFTP category or any EOR") , I assume LTR wealthy pensioner , in which case yes, certainly best visa for that situation. 

[PETERTHEEATER]

13 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

Thanks for posting DTV. So you only had to write a letter saying you own a company and they gave you a 5 year multi-entry visa to Thailand. So you can sell your company tomorrow and you're still good for 5 years.

 

This really is an unbelievably good visa. All the elite visa holders that paid all that baht must be getting real angry right now

 

Perhaps the UK Consulate was impressed when the saw he plays for the Argentina national soccer team.😀

[oldcpu]

11 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

That's fair, I completely understand.

 

But you wouldn't be on either of those categories ("LTR WFTP category or any EOR") , I assume LTR wealthy pensioner , in which case yes, certainly best visa for that situation. 

 

Good point. I was thinking of LTR-WP. .... Still, I ask myself,  how about those on an LTR WFTP category with families?  Should they be forced to drag their families out of the country every year? or leave their family every year for their own visa run - when they could instead obtain a Visa where such was not needed (assuming they have the finances)?

 

My own view is we are fortunate that Thailand has many different visa categories, and dependent on each of our circumstances (age, working? retired? families? finances), different visas are suitable for each of us.

Edited July 18 by oldcpu

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, anrcaccount said:

 

I understand your position but I believe this DTV is equally as legitimate for "working online" as the equivalent LTR category (Working from Thailand Professionals), and also even more legitimate than the various Employer of Record or Umbrella companies that operate.

 

Outside of the dubiously worded, up for debate and non enforced foreign tax exemption.....I cannot see a single reason now why anyone would use either the LTR WFTP category or any EOR, now the DTV exists.

 

 

Based on that which I have read on the DTV recently, translations, Thai text, reading and understanding to me (though I am not an expert by any means but I am just guessing like all the rest) I think that it means a total of 360 days in a 5 year period and if the holder uses that 360 at the beginning, he must wait 4 more years before can have another DTV.  Also any extension of the 180 will cost an additional 10K.  As far as I know, there will be no tax exempt under the DTV which some assume is fact too.  Hope all get what they wish for...

[george]

3 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Based on that which I have read on the DTV recently, translations, Thai text, reading and understanding to me (though I am not an expert by any means but I am just guessing like all the rest) I think that it means a total of 360 days in a 5 year period and if the holder uses that 360 at the beginning, he must wait 4 more years before can have another DTV.  Also any extension of the 180 will cost an additional 10K.  As far as I know, there will be no tax exempt under the DTV which some assume is fact too.  Hope all get what they wish for...

 

You can only get the DTV visa once.

[LivinLOS]

24 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Based on that which I have read on the DTV recently, translations, Thai text, reading and understanding to me (though I am not an expert by any means but I am just guessing like all the rest) I think that it means a total of 360 days in a 5 year period and if the holder uses that 360 at the beginning, he must wait 4 more years before can have another DTV.  Also any extension of the 180 will cost an additional 10K.  As far as I know, there will be no tax exempt under the DTV which some assume is fact too.  Hope all get what they wish for...

Not what immigration are saying. Multiple entries as many as you arrive for over 5 years. 

And yes, tax residence is implied and no 0% tax rate as per LTR for non domestic sourced income. 

 

Edited July 18 by LivinLOS