Biden has pulled out of 2024 Presidential election race. What next?

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, G_Money said:

Never abandoned.  That is why I’ll never be a liberal.

Do you support Social Security and Medicare?

[susanlea]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

Employment decreased by 28 jobs?

 

Wow.

4yo, you claimed job growth when it declined. You can't even use google.

[G_Money]

6 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Do you support Social Security and Medicare?

Trick question?  If you’re trying to say only liberals support these programs you’re wrong.

 

I do for people that have paid into it.

 

You referred to Social Security and Medicare.

Not SSI or Medicaid.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Woof999 said:

 

Good questions and I don't pretend to have the answers.

 

Trump was a surprise winner in the 2020 election. I doubt that any of Putin's plans were changed because Trump came to power. However, Trump has made it pretty clear that he'll stop all (or close to all) funding for Ukraine and that will bring only one outcome.

I think he said it would be over quickly or some-such.

1 minute ago, Woof999 said:

No I don't particularly want to see NATO troops on the ground in Ukraine, BUT, do you really think that Putin will be happy with only the Donbas region plus Crimea? Do you really think he will stop before Ukraine no longer exists as a nation? He's already pretty much said that this is his goal. Once achieved, Russia will have an even bigger border with NATO.

I think it more likely he would take the Donbas and Crimea if it came with an agreement that Ukraine does not join NATO. He has to be sorry he made the move and would almost certainly like to see it end. 

 

1 minute ago, Woof999 said:

 

We're going off topic here, but if, like many here have tried to convince, Putin's whole reason for invading Ukraine was to add a greater buffer between Russia and NATO then he has already lost. Finland joining NATO massively increased the direct NATO > Russia border. I don't know the exact figures but I believe it more than doubled the direct border. Putin is not a stupid man. The NATO buffer is BS. He wants Ukraine. He wants more than Ukraine. Trump will, unwittingly or not, help him achieve this.

Putin invaded Ukraine because he wanted it and because he thought it would be fast and easy. It was not. But thinking he is going to be pushed out of the Donbas and Crimea without a sh*t effin' storm is not rational. Everyone says he will not use nukes, I am not convinced. 

 

Putin wanting Ukraine is nothing new, You, or at least the left in general are always claiming Trump is an ally of Putin, I do not see that. Again, if Trump were an ally of Putin, Putin would have had all of Ukraine before Biden took office. 

[Yellowtail]

15 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Do you support Social Security and Medicare?

I do not. Biggest mistake we ever made. 

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, G_Money said:

Trick question?  If you’re trying to say only liberals support these programs you’re wrong.

 

I do for people that have paid into it.

 

You referred to Social Security and Medicare.

Not SSI or Medicaid.

He doesn't know the difference. 

[Woof999]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

think he said it would be over quickly or some-such.

 

That's part of the issue. Trump makes bold claims but rarely tells us how he will achieve them. Short of withdawing funding, what do you think he'll do? I can't see him doing anything other than capitulating to Putin 100%.

 

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

I think it more likely he would take the Donbas and Crimea if it came with an agreement that Ukraine does not join NATO. He has to be sorry he made the move and would almost certainly like to see it end. 

 

In this phase yes. It will allow Putin to keep all of his gains and look like the great victor in the eyes of his people. It will leave Ukraine with... what? Some form of peace for a short period of time. It certainly wont remove any of the risk of another invasion. With Finland now in NATO, what does an assurance that Ukraine wont join give Putin in the grander scheme? Finland in NATO is a least the same threat to Putin as Ukraine, except that Finland was never part of USSR (officially). Again, to me, this points so Putin's real goal being the re-formation of the union. He always saw its fall as the greatest defeat. A former controlled nation being part of NATO is the issue (Putin loses face), not the fact that they are a direct neighbour. My opinion of course.

 

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Putin invaded Ukraine because he wanted it and because he thought it would be fast and easy. It was not. But thinking he is going to be pushed out of the Donbas and Crimea without a sh*t effin' storm is not rational. Everyone says he will not use nukes, I am not convinced. 

 

Putin is not one to give up. Pause, take stock and attack again is more his MO. Remember that he has as long as it takes. He has effectively installed himself as Russia's permanent leader, no matter how much other posters here try to convince us that Russia is a legitimate, functioning democracy. Can you name any world leader that does not have a limit to the length of their government who exudes world peace? I can't.

 

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Putin wanting Ukraine is nothing new, You, or at least the left in general are always claiming Trump is an ally of Putin, I do not see that. Again, if Trump were an ally of Putin, Putin would have had all of Ukraine before Biden took office. 

 

Interesting that you say I'm on the left. Historically I never was. I support many traditionally right wing policies, although I've also softened on others over the years. I don't support Trump. The guy is the epitomy of weakness. An ally or not of Putin, Trump enables Putin. What makes me really laugh is that Trump probably believes that Putin, Xi Jingping and perhaps Little Kim has respect for him. I bet they can't believe their luck.

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

That's part of the issue. Trump makes bold claims but rarely tells us how he will achieve them. Short of withdawing funding, what do you think he'll do? I can't see him doing anything other than capitulating to Putin 100%.

He could threaten to massively increase funding. 

9 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

In this phase yes. It will allow Putin to keep all of his gains and look like the great victor in the eyes of his people. It will leave Ukraine with... what? Some form of peace for a short period of time. It certainly wont remove any of the risk of another invasion. With Finland now in NATO, what does an assurance that Ukraine wont join give Putin in the grander scheme? Finland in NATO is a least the same threat to Putin as Ukraine, except that Finland was never part of USSR (officially). Again, to me, this points so Putin's real goal being the re-formation of the union. He always saw its fall as the greatest defeat. A former controlled nation being part of NATO is the issue (Putin loses face), not the fact that they are a direct neighbour. My opinion of course.

All we have are our opinions. So, how do you see it ending? Putin saves face by getting Crimea and the Donbas legitimized/formalized, and a promise that Ukraine stays out of NATO. 

 

To be clear, I would like to see Russia pushed all the way back, but at what cost to Ukraine? 

 

9 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

Putin is not one to give up. Pause, take stock and attack again is more his MO. Remember that he has as long as it takes. He has effectively installed himself as Russia's permanent leader, no matter how much other posters here try to convince us that Russia is a legitimate, functioning democracy. Can you name any world leader that does not have a limit to the length of their government who exudes world peace? I can't.

So how do you see it ending? Once the fighting stops, continue arming Ukraine and reestablish missile defense. 

 

Do you think Russia is on the ropes? I do not. Any I agree that "...he has as long as it takes.". 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

Interesting that you say I'm on the left. Historically I never was. I support many traditionally right wing policies, although I've also softened on others over the years. I don't support Trump. The guy is the epitomy of weakness. An ally or not of Putin, Trump enables Putin. What makes me really laugh is that Trump probably believes that Putin, Xi Jingping and perhaps Little Kim has respect for him. I bet they can't believe their luck.

What traditional right-wing policies do you support? 

 

Again, why did Putin not invade while Trump was in office? Do you really think Biden projects strength and commands respect? 

 

They do not respect Trump, but they fear Trump. Trump is unpredictable. 

 

 

[Woof999]

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

He could threaten to massively increase funding. 

 

He could, but that would appear to be the opposite of what GOP are suggesting.

 

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

All we have are our opinions. So, how do you see it ending? Putin saves face by getting Crimea and the Donbas legitimized/formalized, and a promise that Ukraine stays out of NATO. 

 

To be clear, I would like to see Russia pushed all the way back, but at what cost to Ukraine? 

 

How I see it ending and how I want it to end are two different things. Ukraine cannot defeat Russia on their own. However, believing that a short term solution (which is all that Trump will offer, and will strip Ukraine of any dignity in the name of "peace") will stop Putin's longer term goals is naive.

 

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So how do you see it ending? Once the fighting stops, continue arming Ukraine and reestablish missile defense. 

 

Do you think Russia is on the ropes? I do not. Any I agree that "...he has as long as it takes.". 

 

On the ropes against Ukraine only, no? However, Putin cannot defeat a Ukraine that has the unwavering (indirect) support of NATO. Whether Ukraine with that same support can push back Putin is a different question. Quite possible not. Putin would play the long game given the chance. Whether his grip on power would survive that long game is another matter.

 

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What traditional right-wing policies do you support? 

 

Capitalism along with some social welfare. Limited immigration based on what benefits that immigration brings to the nation, along with at least some empathy to refugees. However, I don't think that the centre right exists in the US any more, certainly not in GOP. That is what cost them the last election. MAGA is too extreme and, although the extreme left also exists, it hasn't yet totally destroyed what remains of the centralists.

 

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Again, why did Putin not invade while Trump was in office? Do you really think Biden projects strength and commands respect? 

 

I'll turn that on its head. I don't think Putin didn't FURTHER invade Ukraine BECAUSE Trump was in power.

 

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

They do not respect Trump, but they fear Trump. Trump is unpredictable. 

 

Correct, but he's unpredicatable on almost every front. What you might argue is a strength against Putin can also be see as a weakness for everything else. An unpredicatable government is not a good mix with capitalism. It's not a good quality for foreign relations with allies.

 

He's also quite predictable on a number of things linked to his vanity. Blow some smoke up his arse and he'll love you, regardless of who or what you stand for.

 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

 

He could, but that would appear to be the opposite of what GOP are suggesting.

I think you are wrong. I do not think that would be opposite of what the GOP are suggesting. 

 

What do you think the GOP is suggesting?  

3 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

How I see it ending and how I want it to end are two different things. Ukraine cannot defeat Russia on their own. However, believing that a short term solution (which is all that Trump will offer, and will strip Ukraine of any dignity in the name of "peace") will stop Putin's longer term goals is naive.

Why are you claiming that that's "...all that Trump will offer..."? 

 

3 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

On the ropes against Ukraine only, no? However, Putin cannot defeat a Ukraine that has the unwavering (indirect) support of NATO. Whether Ukraine with that same support can push back Putin is a different question. Quite possible not. Putin would play the long game given the chance. Whether his grip on power would survive that long game is another matter.

So, boots on the ground and Putin pushed back to 2008 borders? 

3 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

 

Capitalism along with some social welfare. Limited immigration based on what benefits that immigration brings to the nation, along with at least some empathy to refugees. However, I don't think that the centre right exists in the US any more, certainly not in GOP. That is what cost them the last election. MAGA is too extreme and, although the extreme left also exists, it hasn't yet totally destroyed what remains of the centralists.

Do you agree with the Republican platform?

 

What about MAGA is too extreme? 

3 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

I'll turn that on its head. I don't think Putin didn't FURTHER invade Ukraine BECAUSE Trump was in power.

That's not turning anything on its head, it's just a dodge. 

3 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

Correct, but he's unpredicatable on almost every front. What you might argue is a strength against Putin can also be see as a weakness for everything else. An unpredicatable government is not a good mix with capitalism. It's not a good quality for foreign relations with allies.

No, I think he is absolutely predictable on most things. 

3 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

He's also quite predictable on a number of things linked to his vanity. Blow some smoke up his arse and he'll love you, regardless of who or what you stand for.

Yeah, I do not see any evidence of that. 

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, Woof999 said:

Putin's whole reason for invading Ukraine was to add a greater buffer between Russia and NATO then he has already lost.

 

Naive, overly simplified generality. On Nato in particular, that idiot BIDEN provided critical motivation for Putin to invade:

 

Biden’s approach ignored Putin’s fear of Ukraine moving closer to the West and joining NATO. Although Biden and his senior officials never explicitly called for Ukraine to join NATO, they dangled NATO membership before Ukraine and repeatedly said this decision was up to Ukraine. Biden further confused the situation by stating several times in 2021 that the United States and NATO would stand behind Ukraine’s “sovereignty and territorial integrity,” statements that sounded like Biden offered Ukraine security guarantees. In addition, during a June 2021 NATO Summit, NATO reaffirmed the commitment made at the 2008 NATO Bucharest Summit that Ukraine would one day become a member.

     --America First, Russia, & Ukraine

 

And much more, if you read the article.

 

1 hour ago, Woof999 said:

I doubt that any of Putin's plans were changed because Trump came to power.

 

Trump's tough stance towards Russia was in fact a big deterrence, as you can read about in the above article. No invasion when he was prez. Biden, however, undid a lot, cozied up to Ukraine (Hunter Biden and his 10% for "the big guy"), blabbed about NATO, and displayed contemptible weakness.

 

1 hour ago, Woof999 said:

Trump will, unwittingly or not, help him achieve this.

 

Nothing's free. Ukraine's losing, as I predicted from the beginning, and will continue to do so w/o direct USA/NATO involvement. NOW Russia's got cozy alliances with China, Iran, and NK. India's OK on the side of the BRICS. Nobody's interested in a wider war. Germany's just slashed military aid to Ukraine. WOT???

 

And most in the USA are tired of endless wars. Trump's tough but not a war monger.

 

So though Trump would have prevented the war in the first place, now there'll have to be a price paid for peace. Biden/Blinken can't negotiate their way out of a paper bag, and, beholden to the military-industrial complex, will simply demagogue to their base and try to expand the conflict right into WW3. Trump will probably make the best deal possible under the circumstances using a combo of stick and carrot.

 

Edited July 24 by BigStar

[Woof999]

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What do you think the GOP is suggesting?  

 

Because I've seen no evidence to the contrary. What do you think GOP is suggesting?

 

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Why are you claiming that that's "...all that Trump will offer..."? 

 

As above. Again, what do you think Trump will do?

 

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So, boots on the ground and Putin pushed back to 2008 borders? 

 

I didn't say boots on the ground. Yes, 2008 borders would be a good goal. Achievable or not is a different matter.

 

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Do you agree with the Republican platform?

 

What about MAGA is too extreme? 

 

MAGA and Republican are now effectively one and the same thing. EVERYTHING is my way or the highway. Bipartisan does not exist. If any suggestion comes from somewhere other than MAGA then it must be bad, purely because of that one fact, nothing to do with the merits of the idea.

 

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

That's not turning anything on its head, it's just a dodge. 

 

Err, no it's not. You seem to be suggesting that Putin's invasion was based on Trump no longer being in power and Biden projecting weakness. I'm suggesting that it was nothing of the sort. Press all you like, I've given my answer.

 

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

No, I think he is absolutely predictable on most things. 

 

So is he predictable or not? This comment is at odds with your last comment about him being unpredictable.

 

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yeah, I do not see any evidence of that. 

 

and so we disagree on that point.

 

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Woof999 said:

Because I've seen no evidence to the contrary. What do you think GOP is suggesting?

Another dodge? You said: "He could, but that would appear to be the opposite of what GOP are suggesting."

 

Again, what do you think GOP is suggesting?

 

1 minute ago, Woof999 said:

As above. Again, what do you think Trump will do?

So, you have no idea, and are just attacking Trump. I think Trump will threaten him with escalation. 

1 minute ago, Woof999 said:

I didn't say boots on the ground. Yes, 2008 borders would be a good goal. Achievable or not is a different matter.

Then what are you saying? What do you think the end game is now, stay the course? 

1 minute ago, Woof999 said:

MAGA and Republican are now effectively one and the same thing. EVERYTHING is my way or the highway. Bipartisan does not exist. If any suggestion comes from somewhere other than MAGA then it must be bad, purely because of that one fact, nothing to do with the merits of the idea.

Did you not understand the question? Those are not positions, and it takes two to be bipartisan, is it your position that the left is trying to reach across the aisle? That's hilarious. 

 

What MAGA policies and or positions do you think are too extreme? 

 

Do you agree with the Republican platform?

 

1 minute ago, Woof999 said:

Err, no it's not. You seem to be suggesting that Putin's invasion was based on Trump no longer being in power and Biden projecting weakness. I'm suggesting that it was nothing of the sort. Press all you like, I've given my answer.

So, Putin was just resting while Trump was in office, got it. 

 

Do you think Afghanistan projected strength? 

1 minute ago, Woof999 said:

So is he predictable or not? This comment is at odds with your last comment about him being unpredictable.

It's not at odds in context. We were talking specifically about how foreign adversaries might see a potential response, not border policies. 

1 minute ago, Woof999 said:

and so we disagree on that point.

You seem to be saying there is evidence, yet you did not provide any evidence, which is fine. 

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, G_Money said:

Trick question?  If you’re trying to say only liberals support these programs you’re wrong.

 

I do for people that have paid into it.

 

You referred to Social Security and Medicare.

Not SSI or Medicaid.

It's a straight up question: do you support Social Security and Medicare?

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

I presume that New Zealand has a National Health Service that you utilize.

I have Medicare and I self-insure in Thailand. 

 

I was planning to fish New Zealand once, but it ended up canceled. 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

It's a straight up question: do you support Social Security and Medicare?

Everyone that has ever worked in the US supports both Social Security and Medicare, whether they want to or not. 

 

Why, are you going to argue that these programs were put in place by Democrats? The left loves making people dependent on the government, it's how they maintain control. 

[Danderman123]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Everyone that has ever worked in the US supports both Social Security and Medicare, whether they want to or not. 

I mean support in a political sense.

[Danderman123]

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The left loves making people dependent on the government, it's how they maintain control. 

The US right is about using government to support the top 1%.

 

Why is why most billionaires support the GOP. But, not all. Some have a conscience.

Edited July 24 by Danderman123

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

I mean support in a political sense.

Yes, but then when G_Money said: "I do for people that have paid into it.", why what that answer not sufficient? 

 

[Hawaiian]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Everyone that has ever worked in the US supports both Social Security and Medicare, whether they want to or not. 

 

Why, are you going to argue that these programs were put in place by Democrats? The left loves making people dependent on the government, it's how they maintain control. 

You forgot to mention that Social Security has become a source of cheap money for a corrupt and spendthrift government. 

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

The US right is about using government to support the top 1%.

 

Why is why most billionaires support the GOP. But, not all. Some have a conscience.

Why do you make things up and pretend they are facts? You never have anything that supports your claims. 

 

I will agree that some (not on the left) have a conscience, but everything else you said is false. 

[Woof999]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Another dodge? You said: "He could, but that would appear to be the opposite of what GOP are suggesting."

 

Again, what do you think GOP is suggesting?

 

Dodge? Give it a break. I've answered the question several times. I believe Trump will cut funding. Go on, ask me again and get the same answer.

 

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So, you have no idea, and are just attacking Trump. I think Trump will threaten him with escalation. 

 

Me believing Trump will cut funding to Ukraine is an attack on Trump? Wow.

 

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Then what are you saying? What do you think the end game is now, stay the course? 

 

I don't know the end game. I'm not pretending to know the end game. Press all you like.

 

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Did you not understand the question? Those are not positions, and it takes two to be bipartisan, is it your position that the left is trying to reach across the aisle? That's hilarious. 

 

Condescention? Really? Was the border bill that failed the Senate vote in May not bipartisan? Was it not significantly negotiated by James Lankford? On the flip side, Mike Johnson tries to do a deal with the Dems and is immediately attacked by MTG and wider MAGA.

 

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What MAGA policies and or positions do you think are too extreme? 

 

Abortion for one... the "leave it up to the individual States" cop out fools nobody. Also, any and all positions that try to tie government and religion. Religion and policy do not belong together.

 

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Do you agree with the Republican platform?

 

Asked and answered. Right now Republican and MAGA are the same thing. Do you disagree? If so, why?

 

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Do you think Afghanistan projected strength? 

 

The Afghanistan withdrawal? If that's what you mean, who intially negitiated that withdrawal and set the timescale? Did the almost complete lack of handover at a critical time not impede it?

 

 

 

[Woof999]

10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I will agree that some (not on the left) have a conscience

 

I should have mentioned my biggest pet hate. Divisiveness.

[Yellowtail]

18 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

 

I should have mentioned my biggest pet hate. Divisiveness.

Yet here you are promoting it...

[theblether]

6 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Presidential pardons are generally messy, with friends and family getting preference.

 

I'm aware of that. I'm only pointing the obvious. Anyone who believes that Joe Biden will risk leaving Hunter in prison after he leaves office doesn't know Joe Biden. And, to be honest, I wouldn't blame him. 

 

I'm fed up with the election already, and esp with the wild conspiracy theories on both sides. I do believe that Joe is in the last couple of years of viable life and it would be an act of self-harm to lose Hunter to jail for the limited viable time he has left. 

 

Joe has to pardon him, as if its left to Kamala it will be a snakebite that will poison her Presidency.  

[Yellowtail]

25 minutes ago, theblether said:

 

I'm aware of that. I'm only pointing the obvious. Anyone who believes that Joe Biden will risk leaving Hunter in prison after he leaves office doesn't know Joe Biden. And, to be honest, I wouldn't blame him. 

 

I'm fed up with the election already, and esp with the wild conspiracy theories on both sides. I do believe that Joe is in the last couple of years of viable life and it would be an act of self-harm to lose Hunter to jail for the limited viable time he has left. 

 

Joe has to pardon him, as if its left to Kamala it will be a snakebite that will poison her Presidency.  

I doubt very much anyone would give a whit if Biden pardoned Hunter before he leaves office, or even Kamala after the election. I would not. 

[Danderman123]

10 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

You forgot to mention that Social Security has become a source of cheap money for a corrupt and spendthrift government. 

Are you advocating ending Social Security?

[Danderman123]

10 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Why do you make things up and pretend they are facts? You never have anything that supports your claims. 

 

I will agree that some (not on the left) have a conscience, but everything else you said is false. 

Speaking of false, what's your take on Project 2025?

[Danderman123]

19 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

The left loves making people dependent on the government, it's how they maintain control. 

Your party - the GOP - is trying to control women's bodies by mandating they carry embryos to term, with women having no choice but to comply.

 

Tell me that's the GOP vision of freedom.

 

[Danderman123]

23 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Do you have anything that supports your claim?

 

I think only the never Trumpers are calling for him to dump JD. 

Russian TV Turns on JD Vance

 

How about your Russian friends?