Warning! New Retirement Visa Rules - Hope This Is Of Interest.

[RichardEllis]

I am starting to get really annoyed about this so called change in enforcement.

We have more than one report that it is real, at least from Bangkok.

Those reports state they have been told this is indeed a new requirement, not a punishment for those who haven't dressed up the standard, or are acting a little nervous. If this is true, this has NOTHING at all to do with the well understood situation that immigration CAN always ask for MORE information. The reports state there is a new regulation that they now MUST ask for this new document. Get the difference????

Yes, it isnt like customs at all, if you get searched and there is nothing to find you get let in. They dont reduce your visa entitlement.

If this is true, this is dead serious to people. It could mean being booted out of Thailand completely unfairly for not having a piece of paper. A piece of paper so far nobody can definitely define, and a piece of paper many people will no longer be able to get because too much time has passed, and they were never told this paper would be vital to them in future. Maybe this doesn't effect your visa situation, but again, if this can happen to one category, it can happen to any category.

And as of yet, nobody has reported definitely exactly what cuts the standard as official proof of foreign transfers, except the Foreign Transfer Form good only for transfers over 20K USD. We have reports that people who thought they had excellent proof (those check sized receipts from the bank) were told that wasn't going to cut it, that they want something else.

WHAT IS THAT SOMETHING ELSE? Precisely, what is it?

Short of this, this thread is a big wank.

OUCH! A bit harsh ref!

In the earlier days of this site, there were people working with the site who could provide reliable information direct from immigration about thorny matters like this. Has this assistance from the site ended for some reason or another?

Hrmmm. Try this one, I think it may be acceptable, it is an official receipt from the bank, about A5 size, printed on A4 paper (I have trimmed and anonymised it). The receipt is actually for a couple of mil but is the same as is used for smaller amounts transferred in. Your bank should be able to give you one of these, but if you bought the dosh in already and haven't got one of these them you need to ask your bank about what they can do.

Hope it helps.

Rich

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/R...ous/FXForm2.jpg

[Jingthing]

Thanks a million, Richard. That is something to work with. This thread is so much more than a wank now!

Anyone who has had their small "looks like a commercial check" document rejected, can you comment whether the form Richard has posted is the same, or different, than what was rejected. Maybe if it was, it was for a transfer over 20K USD, in which case it is logical that they would want the Foreign Transfer form for large amounts.

Edited August 8, 2007 by Jingthing

[PeaceBlondie]

I've got a wild idea here. RichardEllis formerly breezed straight through his annual visa extensions, but this year, something went amiss, according to his accounts of it. In post #300, Rich says, "This year she wanted to give me a 1-month extension because she was too lazy or stupid to see money had change banks but not diminished, at least until it was pointed out her superior had already approved the bank books. I didn't actually give much of a shit when she lost face because it was her own fault and therefore poetic justice." The poetic justice might relate to not giving a shit when the officer who has you by the short-hairs has just been made to lose face.

Rich, in my non-humble opinion, it's not about the LAW. That was what we left back home. This is about relationships. You broke your relationship with the lady officer, thus receiving the short end of the poetic justice stick. My wild guess is that she took some blank document out of the drawer and forced you to 'prove' something that the other officers are not going to require of other non-immigrants. In 301 posts, has any poster other than yourself reported that they are required to prove what she required of you?

I'm often mistaken, although I'm no longer mistaken for a 32 year old. Also, I think Thailand is a papaya republic.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

I am starting to get really annoyed about this so called change in enforcement.

We have more than one report that it is real, at least from Bangkok.

Those reports state they have been told this is indeed a new requirement, not a punishment for those who haven't dressed up the standard, or are acting a little nervous. If this is true, this has NOTHING at all to do with the well understood situation that immigration CAN always ask for MORE information. The reports state there is a new regulation that they now MUST ask for this new document. Get the difference????

Yes, it isnt like customs at all, if you get searched and there is nothing to find you get let in. They dont reduce your visa entitlement.

If this is true, this is dead serious to people. It could mean being booted out of Thailand completely unfairly for not having a piece of paper. A piece of paper so far nobody can definitely define, and a piece of paper many people will no longer be able to get because too much time has passed, and they were never told this paper would be vital to them in future. Maybe this doesn't effect your visa situation, but again, if this can happen to one category, it can happen to any category.

And as of yet, nobody has reported definitely exactly what cuts the standard as official proof of foreign transfers, except the Foreign Transfer Form good only for transfers over 20K USD. We have reports that people who thought they had excellent proof (those check sized receipts from the bank) were told that wasn't going to cut it, that they want something else.

WHAT IS THAT SOMETHING ELSE? Precisely, what is it?

Short of this, this thread is a big wank.

OUCH! A bit harsh ref!

In the earlier days of this site, there were people working with the site who could provide reliable information direct from immigration about thorny matters like this. Has this assistance from the site ended for some reason or another?

Hrmmm. Try this one, I think it may be acceptable, it is an official receipt from the bank, about A5 size, printed on A4 paper (I have trimmed and anonymised it). The receipt is actually for a couple of mil but is the same as is used for smaller amounts transferred in. Your bank should be able to give you one of these, but if you bought the dosh in already and haven't got one of these them you need to ask your bank about what they can do.

Hope it helps.

Rich

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/R...ous/FXForm2.jpg

I've been using the attached receipt for my monthly deposit of a US $$ personal check to my SCB account.  It names my U.S. bank, a credit union, the amount of the $$ check, etc.

So far this has worked for a number of years.  For the future??

Mac

[brahmburgers]

Does anyone have an English translation of the Thai government book titled:

'Shoot Thyself in Thine own Foot' (?)

If Thai authorities want to dampen enthusiasm for foreigners moving here to retire - they're doing all the right things.

Can anyone disprove this theory: ....that the main source of outside revenue coming to Thailand is tourism and resident farang money - particularly paying for dowries and otherwise supporting their wife/girlfirend's families (?) That's hundreds of billions of baht that's essentially under the radar.

Much of that windfall will move to friendlier countries - if Thai bureaucrats continue to make things difficult for visas and foreign ownership.

Edited August 9, 2007 by brahmburgers

[IssanFarang]

I am starting to get really annoyed about this so called change in enforcement.

Hrmmm. Try this one, I think it may be acceptable, it is an official receipt from the bank, about A5 size, printed on A4 paper (I have trimmed and anonymised it). The receipt is actually for a couple of mil but is the same as is used for smaller amounts transferred in. Your bank should be able to give you one of these, but if you bought the dosh in already and haven't got one of these them you need to ask your bank about what they can do.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb208/R...ous/FXForm2.jpg

The bank form posted by RichardEllis is a Credit Advice ("Notice" in his case) of an inbound funds transfer which is readily available from the local bank posting the incoming funds to your account. After reading the preceding posts and browsing other forums for the August 1 "new rule", I decided to play safe by visiting my local Bangkok Bank to request credit advices for every transfer in the past year. They were readily available from the bank's database (going how far back, sorry, I didn't ask), and printed on A4 paper without the bank's letterhead.

The forms clearly stated the originating bank abroad, its confirmation number, and all amount details.

When I pointed out that I could easily duplicate such a form on my PC with my own details, the bank officer quickly stamped the forms with the bank's small, oval, certifying stamp, signed, and date-stamped it.

Will these be needed at my next extension? Who knows... be patient and see. As pointed out by a previous poster, they will be the proof to the central bank that the funds came in from abroad if I should ever want to repatriate them.

As to the form for incoming funds exceeding USD 20,000: I am loath to transfer in this amount, or more, in concern that the bank will withhold 30% per the December 2006 regulation. I've heard that this is not being enforced now, but I won't take a chance -- TIT. So, Rich, the 20,000 form wanted by the officer is susceptible to regulatory action by another govt entity, the central bank. Don't bother pointing this out to your immigr officer, however... sounds like she was having a bad day.

[higgy88]

Just to jump in here, I was asked for and produced the piece of paper from my Thai bank showing that the money in that account was transfered from the US, and that was 16 years ago. So this is definately not something new. They have not asked me for it since. I have moved about 4 times, and have changed banks and/or accounts more times than that. The last time I changed the account was about 4 months before my visa extension date this year, so the new bankbook had only the one entry in it. They asked where the money came from, I told them I changed accounts and showed them the old bankbook, and that was that. After reading this thread, I went to look for that paper and I just cannot find it anywhere, so if they do ask me for it again I will not be able to produce it for them. So I'll just have to see what happens. The one thing I do want to say about my annual visa extension interview is that the only thing that has been consistant is the inconsistancy of what they want.

[jackspratt]

Can anyone disprove this theory: ....that the main source of outside revenue coming to Thailand is tourism and resident farang money - particularly paying for dowries and otherwise supporting their wife/girlfirend's families (?) That's hundreds of billions of baht that's essentially under the radar.

What unmitigated nonsense. Have a look here http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2814.htm

GDP $206 billion (2006)

Merchandise exports $128 billion ie 62% of GDP. That's TBH 4 trillion (approx). That's an awful lot of sinsot

[Krub]

Time to close this topic

Nothing new coming in

Too much Thai bashing and not enough useful information related to immigration

[RichardEllis]

I've got a wild idea here. RichardEllis formerly breezed straight through his annual visa extensions, but this year, something went amiss, according to his accounts of it. In post #300, Rich says, "This year she wanted to give me a 1-month extension because she was too lazy or stupid to see money had change banks but not diminished, at least until it was pointed out her superior had already approved the bank books. I didn't actually give much of a shit when she lost face because it was her own fault and therefore poetic justice." The poetic justice might relate to not giving a shit when the officer who has you by the short-hairs has just been made to lose face.

Rich, in my non-humble opinion,

Nothing wrong with not being humble, look at Uriah heep.

it's not about the LAW. That was what we left back home. This is about relationships. You broke your relationship with the lady officer, thus receiving the short end of the poetic justice stick.

Not at all, I had no contact with her until I wished her a polite goodbye. The actual business was done by the legal eagle and I didnt even know about the <deleted> until I had left and was briefed on the events of the day.

My wild guess is that she took some blank document out of the drawer and forced you to 'prove' something that the other officers are not going to require of other non-immigrants. In 301 posts, has any poster other than yourself reported that they are required to prove what she required of you?

I am afraid that is a bit wild and is not supported by any of the posts in this thread. Others have reported being asked for the same form, which is a new requirement and (I understand that) ALL applications for extension based on 800kbt require to prove the origin even if it has not been requested in previous years and is in fact the same money (i.e. a new regulation). The form isn't new, the global requirement to present the form is what is new (as per my original post).

What you seem to be saying is that this woman decided to give me a hard time because of my attitude, despite not having seen or spoken with me. Interesting but it doesnt fly, and when dealing with Thais (everywhere but on the road) I am scrupulously polite if not deferential.

I'm often mistaken, although I'm no longer mistaken for a 32 year old. Also, I think Thailand is a papaya republic.

Ya. I am also mistaken on occasion but not about Thais or Thailand. Dont get me wrong, I actually love Thailand and I admire many Thais. But I do not let this dictate my reaction to their obvious failings, and we all have them. It is just that Thais like not to see theirs.

One point though - you are quite wrong in saying it isn't about the law but about relationships. It IS about the law and not about relationships, which is why Thailand has so many lawyers and so few social workers. If what you said were true then Thailand would be irrevocably doomed to be an irrelevant part of the third world.

Rich

Edited August 9, 2007 by RichardEllis

[RichardEllis]

Time to close this topic

Nothing new coming in

Too much Thai bashing and not enough useful information related to immigration

Hrmm. Dont know, I think most has been useful. If stating facts is Thai-bashing then, with respect you need some time out of Thailand. If the facts that exist are uncomplimentary to Thais then Thais ought to make the facts different.

I believe most posts have been helpful if not politically correct, and all background conclusions and experiences are helpful in determining ones own actions and attitudes, this is how we learn from each other. Turning a blind eye is how we get to think there really aren't any ships.

Rich

Edited August 9, 2007 by RichardEllis

[RichardEllis]

Can anyone disprove this theory: ....that the main source of outside revenue coming to Thailand is tourism and resident farang money - particularly paying for dowries and otherwise supporting their wife/girlfirend's families (?) That's hundreds of billions of baht that's essentially under the radar.

What unmitigated nonsense. Have a look here http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2814.htm

GDP $206 billion (2006)

Merchandise exports $128 billion ie 62% of GDP. That's TBH 4 trillion (approx). That's an awful lot of sinsot

It is indeed. But the OP has a point, that retirees and other farang residents of Thailand bring in a lot of money. Tourism is (I believe) a major export earner in Thailand, and this is vulnerable to Thai attitudezs to foreigners as reflected in their immigration policies.

It hasnt been mentioned before but it may well be a factor, that when times get hard (economically or socially) many populations look around to see who they can blame other than themselves. Foreigners are a popular target and the amount of anti-foreigner sentiment noted by posters to this and other boards appears to have increased markedly since the economic and political situations became volatile last year (it began prior to the coup). If it is true that the problems in extending retirement visas are a part of a generally less congenial approach to foreigners then the experiences in this topic are understandable if not reasonable.

Rich

[bottleymike]

For what its worth, here is my recent experience with Pattaya ( Jomtien) immigration, regarding renewing my one year retirement visa extension for the third year.

Firstly, as I live locally, i visited immigration and asked at reception what I currently needed to provide immigration with to renew my one year extension.

I was advised that I needed copies of passport pages ( Picture page, details page, and all previous Thai visa stamp pages and landing card copied).

I would also need one 6cm * 4cm passport size photo.

I would also need 800,000 Baht in a bank account.And a letter confirming this from the bank.

( the prevviously needed doctors certificate is no longer needed)

Armed with everything I thought that I needed ,i visited immigration yesterday.

i was told that the bank account I had held and used previously for my visa extension renewal was no longer any good.This bank account was not a savings account, and I was advised I needed 800,000 Baht in a savings account.

I was told to get it changed and come back the next day.

With a lot of running around I moved enough money into an existing savings account I already had, which initially only had 25,000Baht in it.

This account had been open for over a year, and at one point had had over 1,000,000 Baht moved into it from England by IMO.

I topped this up to 800,000 Baht.

I Got copies of this accounts pages, and a new bank letter referring to this account.

I returned to immigration today. I had to get a couple of extra passport pages copied at the family copy shop in the immigration yard. But other than that, the savings bank account was accepted.

I did note that the immigration officer highlighted the 1,000,000 Baht entry I had previously paid in last year from England.

But other than the standard bank letter confirming the money in the savings account, I was not asked to provide any other bank reciepts or confirmations of money transfer from abroad.

I return this PM hopefully to pick up my passport.

I hope this may be of use to others in a similar position. But I think its always wise if you can to actually ask immigration what they need from you, rather than listen to other farrangs whose circumstances may not be the same as your own.

[RichardEllis]

For what its worth, here is my recent experience with Pattaya ( Jomtien) immigration, regarding renewing my one year retirement visa extension for the third year.

Firstly, as I live locally, i visited immigration and asked at reception what I currently needed to provide immigration with to renew my one year extension.

I was advised that I needed copies of passport pages ( Picture page, details page, and all previous Thai visa stamp pages and landing card copied).

I would also need one 6cm * 4cm passport size photo.

I would also need 800,000 Baht in a bank account.And a letter confirming this from the bank.

( the prevviously needed doctors certificate is no longer needed)

Armed with everything I thought that I needed ,i visited immigration yesterday.

i was told that the bank account I had held and used previously for my visa extension renewal was no longer any good.This bank account was not a savings account, and I was advised I needed 800,000 Baht in a savings account.

I was told to get it changed and come back the next day.

With a lot of running around I moved enough money into an existing savings account I already had, which initially only had 25,000Baht in it.

This account had been open for over a year, and at one point had had over 1,000,000 Baht moved into it from England by IMO.

I topped this up to 800,000 Baht.

I Got copies of this accounts pages, and a new bank letter referring to this account.

I returned to immigration today. I had to get a couple of extra passport pages copied at the family copy shop in the immigration yard. But other than that, the savings bank account was accepted.

I did note that the immigration officer highlighted the 1,000,000 Baht entry I had previously paid in last year from England.

But other than the standard bank letter confirming the money in the savings account, I was not asked to provide any other bank reciepts or confirmations of money transfer from abroad.

I return this PM hopefully to pick up my passport.

I hope this may be of use to others in a similar position. But I think its always wise if you can to actually ask immigration what they need from you, rather than listen to other farrangs whose circumstances may not be the same as your own.

Good post. Of course it would help if the Immigration officers were consistent. There are 2 possible issues which could have been picked up on:

1. Did you really only need 1 photo? they normally ask for 2.

2. I know it is pedantic but the money needs to have been in the account for 3 months. Kudos to your immigration officer for applying reason. Sounds like I may take a trip to Jomtien at extension time next year.

It does appear that peoples experiences differ. All part of the intrinsic charm of living in Thaialnd I suppose...

Rich

Edited August 9, 2007 by RichardEllis

[R123]

Thanks for your helpful posting bottleymike.

You say that your were told the bank account where you previously held the funds was no good for renewal.

Can we know what type of account, and with which bank?

And any reason given to you why no good?

grateful!

Edited August 9, 2007 by R123

[bottleymike]

For what its worth, here is my recent experience with Pattaya ( Jomtien) immigration, regarding renewing my one year retirement visa extension for the third year.

Firstly, as I live locally, i visited immigration and asked at reception what I currently needed to provide immigration with to renew my one year extension.

I was advised that I needed copies of passport pages ( Picture page, details page, and all previous Thai visa stamp pages and landing card copied).

I would also need one 6cm * 4cm passport size photo.

I would also need 800,000 Baht in a bank account.And a letter confirming this from the bank.

( the prevviously needed doctors certificate is no longer needed)

Armed with everything I thought that I needed ,i visited immigration yesterday.

i was told that the bank account I had held and used previously for my visa extension renewal was no longer any good.This bank account was not a savings account, and I was advised I needed 800,000 Baht in a savings account.

I was told to get it changed and come back the next day.

With a lot of running around I moved enough money into an existing savings account I already had, which initially only had 25,000Baht in it.

This account had been open for over a year, and at one point had had over 1,000,000 Baht moved into it from England by IMO.

I topped this up to 800,000 Baht.

I Got copies of this accounts pages, and a new bank letter referring to this account.

I returned to immigration today. I had to get a couple of extra passport pages copied at the family copy shop in the immigration yard. But other than that, the savings bank account was accepted.

I did note that the immigration officer highlighted the 1,000,000 Baht entry I had previously paid in last year from England.

But other than the standard bank letter confirming the money in the savings account, I was not asked to provide any other bank reciepts or confirmations of money transfer from abroad.

I return this PM hopefully to pick up my passport.

I hope this may be of use to others in a similar position. But I think its always wise if you can to actually ask immigration what they need from you, rather than listen to other farrangs whose circumstances may not be the same as your own.

Good post. Of course it would help if the Immigration officers were consistent. There are 2 possible issues which could have been picked up on:

1. Did you really only need 1 photo? they normally ask for 2.

2. I know it is pedantic but the money needs to have been in the account for 3 months. Kudos to your immigration officer for applying reason. Sounds like I may take a trip to Jomtien at extension time next year.

It does appear that peoples experiences differ. All part of the intrinsic charm of living in Thaialnd I suppose...

Rich

Rich, They definatly only wanted one photo for the visa extension. i asked them when I first visited, and had no problem with the one photo when I handed the application in today.

Although, I did have several spare pictures on me in case they were suddenly required.

Mike

PS. If you were doing a re entry permit at the same time, as I was, you would need one more photo for that re entry permit form. But thats a different transaction as it were.

[bottleymike]

Thanks for your helpful posting bottleymike.

You say that your were told the bank account where you previously held the funds was no good for renewal.

Can we know what type of account, and with which bank?

And any reason given to you why no good?

grateful!

The account was held at the Kasikorn bank central klang.

It was a government bond 12 A fund account, called the Ruang Khao government bond.

previously because it was an account effectivly lending money to the Thai Government though a bond for a fixed 1 year period it was acceptable to immigration.

Now under the new rule application they say it is not acceptable. The only reason quoted was that it was not a SAVINGS account and the new rules say it must be a savings account.

It seems a bit strange to me that money put into a bond with the Thai government is not acceptable to the Thai governments immigration rules, but there you go.

[Jingthing]

To the the guy who said this thread should be closed, I say no, it should definitely not be closed.

This is because more reports might come in about the pattern of enforcement about the requirement of proof of foreign money transfer, as reported here by more than one poster (for those using the bank account only method).

What will happen if this is enforced to someone here for 5 years who can no longer get the holy grail paper. not because they broke any rule, but because too much time has passed? We want to know.

BTW, I recently read the government of the Philippines has calculated that for every one expat retiree FOUR jobs are created for Filipinos. Some may protest, but Thailand and the Philippines are at similar economic levels. Also both have serious political problems. The Filipino government hopes to lure TWO MILLION expat retirees, thus creating 8 million local jobs. Towards this end, they have recently radically liberalized their retirement program requirements (for example those over 50 showing no pension can now bring in only 20K USD ONE TIME, as opposed to 50K USD, and this money can be used to buy housing). That is one time folks, and you are set their for life. No annual visits to potential deportation. I would much rather retire in Thailand, but I do fantasize about a retirement visa program where we are actually made to feel wanted and secure. And, yes, I will be headed to the Philippines if Thailand shakes out this baby with the bathwater. (Maybe they should be high waiing US as we are bringing a benefit to Thailand. Yes, we are but we are being abused in the process.) So, to sum up,

Philippines: lured and appreciated, we can't get enough of you guys, tell your friends to come!!!

Thailand: CRACKDOWN, you are always a SUSPECT

Edited August 9, 2007 by Jingthing

[RichardEllis]

For what its worth, here is my recent experience with Pattaya ( Jomtien) immigration, regarding renewing my one year retirement visa extension for the third year.

Firstly, as I live locally, i visited immigration and asked at reception what I currently needed to provide immigration with to renew my one year extension.

I was advised that I needed copies of passport pages ( Picture page, details page, and all previous Thai visa stamp pages and landing card copied).

I would also need one 6cm * 4cm passport size photo.

I would also need 800,000 Baht in a bank account.And a letter confirming this from the bank.

( the prevviously needed doctors certificate is no longer needed)

Armed with everything I thought that I needed ,i visited immigration yesterday.

i was told that the bank account I had held and used previously for my visa extension renewal was no longer any good.This bank account was not a savings account, and I was advised I needed 800,000 Baht in a savings account.

I was told to get it changed and come back the next day.

With a lot of running around I moved enough money into an existing savings account I already had, which initially only had 25,000Baht in it.

This account had been open for over a year, and at one point had had over 1,000,000 Baht moved into it from England by IMO.

I topped this up to 800,000 Baht.

I Got copies of this accounts pages, and a new bank letter referring to this account.

I returned to immigration today. I had to get a couple of extra passport pages copied at the family copy shop in the immigration yard. But other than that, the savings bank account was accepted.

I did note that the immigration officer highlighted the 1,000,000 Baht entry I had previously paid in last year from England.

But other than the standard bank letter confirming the money in the savings account, I was not asked to provide any other bank reciepts or confirmations of money transfer from abroad.

I return this PM hopefully to pick up my passport.

I hope this may be of use to others in a similar position. But I think its always wise if you can to actually ask immigration what they need from you, rather than listen to other farrangs whose circumstances may not be the same as your own.

Good post. Of course it would help if the Immigration officers were consistent. There are 2 possible issues which could have been picked up on:

1. Did you really only need 1 photo? they normally ask for 2.

2. I know it is pedantic but the money needs to have been in the account for 3 months. Kudos to your immigration officer for applying reason. Sounds like I may take a trip to Jomtien at extension time next year.

It does appear that peoples experiences differ. All part of the intrinsic charm of living in Thaialnd I suppose...

Rich

Rich, They definatly only wanted one photo for the visa extension. i asked them when I first visited, and had no problem with the one photo when I handed the application in today.

Although, I did have several spare pictures on me in case they were suddenly required.

Mike

PS. If you were doing a re entry permit at the same time, as I was, you would need one more photo for that re entry permit form. But thats a different transaction as it were.

Cheers, as it happens I did need a re-entry as well, perhaps that was it.

Rich

[Lite Beer]

A couple of things flowing from my Visa extension experience at Suan Phlu today.

First, if you haven't had the money in the bank for 3 months they will want to give you a 1-month visa. I changed banks last m onth (transferred money same day) and they still wanted to give me a 1-month after 2 successive and successful 12m extensions, even though I had all bank books with me for inspection.

Second, you are now required to prove that the 800k came from overseas. Fortunately I had an old certificate from the bank at home otherwise I would have needed to get the bank (which I no longer deal with) to certify a FX transaction from 3 years ago. I imagine that would have been a lot of fun. I was told this new regulation came in today. I was also told nobody had been told in advance. Making it up as they go along I think.

Rich

Richard.

On 17th July you wrote that your Wife is threatening to make your Visa renewal a big problem as she has contacts in high places. Mabe your prophecy came true.

[mahjongguy]

Thanks a million, Richard. That is something to work with. This thread is so much more than a wank now!

Anyone who has had their small "looks like a commercial check" document rejected, can you comment whether the form Richard has posted is the same, or different, than what was rejected. Maybe if it was, it was for a transfer over 20K USD, in which case it is logical that they would want the Foreign Transfer form for large amounts.

Let me attempt to clarify this a little:

For a wire transfer of any size, large or small, you should request (and will be given) a Credit Detail or whatever your bank calls it. As noted, you need to get the bank to stamp and initial this. Better yet, pay them to write a cover letter in Thai.

These reports are kept at the bank's wire center for years. Based on my interpretation of Immigration's scrutiny of my documents last week, they want to see reports totalling at least 800,000 baht, regardless of when that money arrived. Maybe you brought in 300,000 a year for the past three years; if so, you may be asked to show the detail reports for all three. If the last time you brought in money was several years ago,

you are going to have to do some fancy dancing about just how you are getting by. Maybe proof of foreign ATM withdrawals will work, I cannot say.

Secondly, there has been mention of a "$20,000" form. I think this is a misunderstanding. There is a form out there that mentions "20,000" but that reference is clearly to baht, not dollars. However, there is regulation from 2006 that requires you to go to your designated branch and sign for any amount equivalent to US$20,000 or more. I know this because last March I was sitting around waiting for a transfer and it never appeared. When I finally called the Wire Center they said they were waiting for me to go to the bank and sign first. News to me! Anyway, that form does not seem to be of interest to Immigration.

[Jingthing]

Thanks Mah.

I my case there is nothing fancy at all.

The only thing is for my initial transfer, of course it went over 800K baht in total, was done in more than one wire within a short time period (not years), but not one wire over 20K USD.

However, I think you are mistaken that the special form is for transactions over 20K BAHT. I think it is quite clear it is only for transactions over 20K US DOLLARS. Otherwise, why on earth would the wording say: "or the equilavent at market rate"?? So far, everyone has agreed that form (posted initially by Richard) is indeed only for such over 20K USD transactions, NOT baht.

I think this form predated the 2006 regulations, didn't it? We already have word it is exactly the same form as needed for condo purchase foreign transfers (which are almost always over 20K USD).

If you are correct and I am not about that form, can someone provide further evidence?

There is a lesson to be learned for everyone in future. Always go to the bank and get paperwork every time you do an incoming wire. You never know if/when you will need it.

Edited August 9, 2007 by Jingthing

[jackspratt]

Yes, we are but we are being abused in the process.

So please tell us exactly how you are being abused Jing - is it physically, emotionally, legally, financially................etc

From my reading of this thread, and numerous other threads over the past couple of years, it is my understanding there are two main things happening in relation to visas:

1. Visa laws and regulations have been tightened up and enforced more efficiently to crack down on abusers (there is that word again) and evaders ie a proper application of government policy. Examples are the 90/180 day rule, and the 800k/3 month rule

2. Individual immigration officers have imposed idiosyncratic and sometimes nonsensical conditions on individual visa/extension applicants ie not seemingly government policy. There are numerous examples of this.

I am therefore struggling to conclude that the government is trying to make life universally hard for the vast majority of the farangs who are living in Thailand in accordance with the laws and policy objectives - which of course are the prerogative of the government to determine.

JMHO

[Jingthing]

A case can be made that abuse is too strong a word. I am specifically talking about the retirement visa program,

Not welcoming might be a better way to put it.

Where is the Thailand retirement program website such as those for Malaysia and the Philippines? Both of those governments have an official government policy to promote and expand the retirement program. Is there any doubt that Thailand does not, and is instead treating all current such visa holders as potential suspects? The three month rule is a good example. Why burden everyone with that? Why not instead just give a hard time to people whose bank records show evidence of monkey business? This onerous rule recently cost me money. I had to make a large transfer at very bad rates. I would have preferred to wait, but no choice. Other countries are competing for us, and liberalizing their retirement visa programs, even lowering the financial requirements. Not to mention offering 5, 10 year or lifetime programs, instead of annual extensions. Thailand is going the opposite way, Again, future retirees, you have been warned. Listen to the people who have experienced this first hand, and not the Thai authorities can do no wrong crowd.

Bottom line, it is all about money and wealth levels. Thailand wants more of it and will want more of it in future. For bank account qualifiers, it is actually a de facto raise in the annual amount needed, because you need to show 800K 3 months prior, so you in reality will need something to live on for those 3 months, won't you? Thailand is totally affordable (and indeed a wonderful place) to lower wealth retirees, but the Thailand government does not want you or the four local jobs you create (going by the Filipino studies for their country). Other countries do. That is the main message. I think people who aren't US dollar millionaires (at least) should look elsewhere, for their own self interest.

I think Thailand wants fewer retirees and wants those retirees to be very wealthy. If you aren't very wealthy (and you know who you are) you will never be secure here with the government, even if you can afford a wonderful life here.

Edited August 9, 2007 by Jingthing

[RichardEllis]

A couple of things flowing from my Visa extension experience at Suan Phlu today.

First, if you haven't had the money in the bank for 3 months they will want to give you a 1-month visa. I changed banks last m onth (transferred money same day) and they still wanted to give me a 1-month after 2 successive and successful 12m extensions, even though I had all bank books with me for inspection.

Second, you are now required to prove that the 800k came from overseas. Fortunately I had an old certificate from the bank at home otherwise I would have needed to get the bank (which I no longer deal with) to certify a FX transaction from 3 years ago. I imagine that would have been a lot of fun. I was told this new regulation came in today. I was also told nobody had been told in advance. Making it up as they go along I think.

Rich

Richard.

On 17th July you wrote that your Wife is threatening to make your Visa renewal a big problem as she has contacts in high places. Mabe your prophecy came true.

It is possible. The contact whom she threatened to use told me he could/would not help but he is Chinese so I dont know. He approached me as it happens because he said he was offended by the request. Still, the immigration lady who gave problems knows him and has been the recipient of 'tea-money' to my certain knowledge (he accompanied me on previous extensions - I took a lawyer this time in case there were probs). Who knows, in any event, she was pretty much neutered if that was in her mind - I was glad I had the lawyer there...

Rich

[maurizio04]

From my reading of this thread, and numerous other threads over the past couple of years, it is my understanding there are two main things happening in relation to visas:

1. Visa laws and regulations have been tightened up and enforced more efficiently to crack down on abusers (there is that word again) and evaders ie a proper application of government policy. Examples are the 90/180 day rule, and the 800k/3 month rule

2. Individual immigration officers have imposed idiosyncratic and sometimes nonsensical conditions on individual visa/extension applicants ie not seemingly government policy. There are numerous examples of this.

I am therefore struggling to conclude that the government is trying to make life universally hard for the vast majority of the farangs who are living in Thailand in accordance with the laws and policy objectives - which of course are the prerogative of the government to determine.

JMHO

Thailand have any rights to ask even very confused and complicated rules for retirements.

What i find anacceptable is the yearly cycle. No way, a retirement should be for life, so why bother people EVERY year. The minimum cycle acceptable should be 5 years.

I will never apply at this condition, better doing very long vacation, you can even get travel health insurance for close to nothing.

[Maestro]

...form...for transactions over 20K US DOLLARS...

Here is the link to that form.

--

Maestro

[Jingthing]

...form...for transactions over 20K US DOLLARS...

Here is the link to that form.

--

Maestro

So that proves once and for all that form is only available for transactions over 20K USD, correct?

[Jingthing]

From my reading of this thread, and numerous other threads over the past couple of years, it is my understanding there are two main things happening in relation to visas:

1. Visa laws and regulations have been tightened up and enforced more efficiently to crack down on abusers (there is that word again) and evaders ie a proper application of government policy. Examples are the 90/180 day rule, and the 800k/3 month rule

2. Individual immigration officers have imposed idiosyncratic and sometimes nonsensical conditions on individual visa/extension applicants ie not seemingly government policy. There are numerous examples of this.

I am therefore struggling to conclude that the government is trying to make life universally hard for the vast majority of the farangs who are living in Thailand in accordance with the laws and policy objectives - which of course are the prerogative of the government to determine.

JMHO

Thailand have any rights to ask even very confused and complicated rules for retirements.

What i find anacceptable is the yearly cycle. No way, a retirement should be for life, so why bother people EVERY year. The minimum cycle acceptable should be 5 years.

I will never apply at this condition, better doing very long vacation, you can even get travel health insurance for close to nothing.

I agree 100 percent that the yearly extension for older people is a very big negative.

At the very least, greatly increased status should be available, such as something like RETIREMENT PERMANENT RESIDENCE, for those who have done this for 5 years for example.

I also agree Thailand or any country is free to do whatever they want. Many countries that could benefit economically from expat retirees have no program whatsoever for this. Burma doesn't. Vietnam doesn't. I do think people should have their eyes wide open about what is happening here in Thailand, and not be in denial about it. I also think those who already made this move and are heavily invested in it are doing a good thing to be honest about the reality of it, so that those who haven't done this already can make informed decisions about where they choose to invest and spend their life savings. A great case can be made that it is wiser to spend it in a country where you are officially welcomed and are also offered more stability than a 12 month extension.

Edited August 9, 2007 by Jingthing

[Maestro]

...correct?

Correct.

--

Maestro