Tax Return 2025

[NorthernRyland]

7 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

As I recall, jail time is not uncommon if evasion is suspected.

you're taking about Thai nationals and ones with big money. How many Thais don't pay tax and evade? I bet the number is shocking but not surprising. We foreigners don't know what goes on, we just show up to immigration with our stacks of paper and go off aloof until the next year. They're not going to treat us like Thai millionaires running underground businesses I'm sure of that much.

[chiang mai]

12 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

you're taking about Thai nationals and ones with big money. How many Thais don't pay tax and evade? I bet the number is shocking but not surprising. We foreigners don't know what goes on, we just show up to immigration with our stacks of paper and go off aloof until the next year. They're not going to treat us like Thai millionaires running underground businesses I'm sure of that much.

I don't think the penalty change s based on nationality, why would it. But none of us know the details about this so no point debating 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

48 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

So let's assume you're one of the guys not online and paying attention then 2025 rolls around and obviously you've not filed. Personally knowing how Thailand operates I'm incredulous this person would be targeted and penalized. If they're serious about this they will in my opinion notify us properly though immigration.

 

You claim to know how Thailand works! And you expect the TRD to contact you via immigration!!!

if they are going to contact you it will come from them unless they can get a “requirement for tax clearance” added to the extension requirements.

[pauku1]

47 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If they do refuse me an extension, it's 5 year DTV time, and still no money from me.

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/dtv-visa-thailand

Quote

Do I pay Thai taxes on my foreign income as a DTV Visa Thailand holder?

This depends on the duration of your stay. According to the law, anyone who stays in Thailand for over 180 days out of a calendar year will be considered a tax resident by the Thai government. You will be liable to pay Thai taxes on your foreign income if you are a tax resident, even if you hold a Destination Thailand Visa. 

Due to updates to Thailand’s Tax Code in 2024, all foreign income of tax residents in Thailand is subject to income tax regardless of when/if it was brought into the country.

 

Edited August 11 by pauku1

[BritManToo]

45 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

I didn't file my TM30 for at LEAST 10 years (maybe my old land lady filed but I doubt it) but the other year out of the blue they decided they wanted it. What happened? I paid 1,600 baht fine and no mention was made that I broke the law for so many years.  That's typical of Thailand in my experience.

Same for me, no TM30 for 10 years, then immigration asked for one. Went to the office, they said "why is there no record of you in our system". I said, it beats me, how could that happen?

Then they decided it was a glitch in their system, made out my TM30, no fine.

Edited August 11 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, pauku1 said:

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/dtv-visa-thailand

 

If you never encounter any Thai officials (except at borders), how would they know, or enforce?

[Captain Flack]

A post making claims about another poster has been removed.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

16 hours ago, BritManToo said:

If you never encounter any Thai officials (except at borders), how would they know, or enforce?

Underestimating Thai officialdom by feeling superior—thinking 'I am smarter than everyone else and can beat the system'—usually leads to a predictable outcome.

[rattlesnake]

20 hours ago, Everyman said:

 

People have a distorted perception of the TRDs capabilities and interest in their affairs. Not that I have any special knowledge about TRD, but I just find claims about the TRD knowing everyone’s global financial information and having the manpower and interest in going after retirees with meager pensions for not filing a form, to be unrealistic. 

Absolutely. It is simply never going to happen.

[Mutt Daeng]

17 hours ago, pauku1 said:

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/dtv-visa-thailand

 

That is not an official Thai government website. It's from some law firm.

Edited August 11 by Mutt Daeng

[sqwakvfr]

Threequestions about procedure:

 

1) Thai Tax returns have to be submitted in Thai?  Therefore, all foreign documents would have to be translated. 

2) What would the approximate cost be for an agency to file a Thai Tax return for foreign tax resident? 

 

 

[CharlesHolzhauer]

10 minutes ago, Mutt Daeng said:

That is not an official Thai government website. It's from some law firm.

This one is not:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/index-eng.html

[KhunHeineken]

22 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Another of the many unsubstantiated rumours. Go off and have a read of this article.

 

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/dont-panic-because-thai-revenue-has-written-to-100000-tax-residents-urging-registration-465598

It's not a rumor, it's an obvious method available to Thai authorities in regards to tax enforcement for expats.  Thus, it's a prediction, and not just from me, but from many others as well, and worthy of some consideration, especially as you already need to produce some documents at extension time.  If it's being discussed by expats, you can bet the Thai authorities have considered it, because it's so obvious. 

 

A "rumor" would be someone posting on here "My friend at the TRD told me you will need a certificate of clearance for your extension."  That's spreading a rumor. 

 

There's a difference between a rumor and a prediction. 

 

I just can't see the Thai's allowing people like yourself, and others, to continue on as normal, doing nothing about Thai tax policy.  If they allowed you to do nothing, everyone else would do nothing, thus no money for them. 

 

They will have something up their sleeve to force you into their tax system.  At this stage, what it is, we don't know, but there's a lot of money just sitting there, untapped, and I can't see the Thai's giving farang a free pass.  

 

A certificate of clearance at extension time is only one of many methods they have available to them, but it would be the easiest and cheapest way to force farang to make contact with the TRD, rather than the TRD chasing the farang. 

 

I keep an open mind as to what they can / will do here, and "we" may be able to get away with doing nothing for a while, but eventually I can see them scooping up all farang that have been inside Thailand for 180 days in a calendar year and making them pay "something" and when I use the word "something" it could be as simple as 300 baht for a certificate of clearance, just like the certificate of residence, making the Thai tax policy a joke for many, but a nice earner for the TRD, which sends the money up the chain. 

 

Time will tell. 

[KhunHeineken]

22 hours ago, chiang mai said:

A DTA does not ensure that funds are not taxed twice. The purpose of a DTA is to identiify primary responsibility for the collection of tax and where appropriate, the secondary also. It is entirely feasible that funds arising in country A my be taxed at X percent. The DTA may then assign the right to tax those funds to country B, at Y percent. If Y percent is higher and country A does not issue a tax credit, or the tax credit is not usable for whatever reason, or the tax credit cannot be carried forward to a subsequent year (where tax years do not align) the funds will not only be taxed at a higher rate but potentially also taxed twice. I understand from past conversations that issuance of tax credits and carry forwards in Thailand is an issue where the way forward is unclear.

I over simplified it for the purposes of explaining to those that believe a DTA means if their money was taxed in their home country, then it can not be taxed in Thailand, which is a myth, and explained quite well by the guy in the youtube video I posted. 

[chiang mai]

3 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Threequestions about procedure:

 

1) Thai Tax returns have to be submitted in Thai?  Therefore, all foreign documents would have to be translated. 

2) What would the approximate cost be for an agency to file a Thai Tax return for foreign tax resident? 

 

 

Tax returns can be in English, forms are available.

 

My guess is it varies massively, based on location and whether you just want form filling or form filling and advice. Expect say 7k to 30k. The staff at the TRD are very good and will do it for you for free.

[KhunHeineken]

23 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Exactly. I've done quite a trawl of the internet trying to find any article that suggests that we expat pensioners could be targeted by the TRD and I have come up with nothing, not even a hint that it might be true. In fact there are quite few websites that suggests it's quite the opposite, articles that I have previously referred to a number of times on this forum.

 

The only place where I have found any reference to this notion is right here on ASEAN NOW. IMO it's nothing more than a home grown rumour.

I've never suggested expat pensioners will be "targeted by the TRD." 

 

Expat pensioners will simply be scooped up by Thai tax laws, and whilst Thai authorities maybe be focusing on high wealth individuals, the law will apply to all, Thai and farang, who are inside Thailand for 180 days in a calendar year.   

[KhunHeineken]

4 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Absolutely. It is simply never going to happen.

Like I have said in the past, the TRD may simply want 300, 500, or 1000 baht for a Certificate of Clearance each year, just like we pay 300 baht for a Certificate of Residence, when they should be free. 

 

They may chase high net worth individuals, but for your average expat pensioner, maybe it's all about paying a few baht for a document from the TRD each year and be on your merry way. 

 

Who knows at this stage, but it's an easy earner for them, and I can't see them walking away from easy money. 

[KhunHeineken]

21 hours ago, BritManToo said:

If you never encounter any Thai officials (except at borders), how would they know, or enforce?

As I have said in the past, there is an immigration desk at the airports where people can pay their overstay fines. 

 

There very well may be a TRD desk in the future where the immigration guy says, "You have been in Thailand more than 180 days this calendar year, go over to the TRD desk then come back."  The computer will do the calculation, as it does for over stayers.  At the TRD desk, one may have to pay "something" not necessarily the correct amount of tax, but "something."  

 

Not a rumor, not scaremongering, just a prediction about what Thai authorities MAY do.  They already do it for over stayers.  It's possible they MAY also do it for tax collection. 

 

There already is a VAT return office at the airport for tourists. 

[chiang mai]

9 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Like I have said in the past, the TRD may simply want 300, 500, or 1000 baht for a Certificate of Clearance each year, just like we pay 300 baht for a Certificate of Residence, when they should be free. 

 

They may chase high net worth individuals, but for your average expat pensioner, maybe it's all about paying a few baht for a document from the TRD each year and be on your merry way. 

 

Who knows at this stage, but it's an easy earner for them, and I can't see them walking away from easy money. 

Or there again they may just want you to file your tax return and there will be no paid for alternative. My guess is that TRD will not follow the Immigration model, I'm betting this one is strictly above board.

[Yumthai]

 

16 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

They will have something up their sleeve to force you into their tax system.  At this stage, what it is, we don't know, but there's a lot of money just sitting there, untapped, and I can't see the Thai's giving farang a free pass.

And there is even much more money to be milked from the locals, how is TRD going to force them to comply and pay?

 

I'm wondering because every single day I need to let pass motorbikes riding on the sidewalk although there's a big sign with cameras drawings stating "2,000 THB fine for driving vehicles on the pavement".

[KhunHeineken]

On 8/10/2024 at 8:12 AM, Moonlover said:

If they want me to register then they can come and invite me to,

Do you think their public announcements that have been in the news is their "invitation?  I am sure the Thai authorities now consider you as being "informed."

 

Sure, you can try doing "nothing" and pleading ignorance, but that may have some consequences, probably measured in baht. 

 

I think those that do nothing will just be easy targets for some quick money in the future.  A bit like saying, "no one else is wearing a helmet, so I thought I didn't need to wear one." 

[KhunHeineken]

2 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

 

And there is even much more money to be milked from the locals, how is TRD going to force them to comply and pay?

 

I'm wondering because every single day I need to let pass motorbikes riding on the sidewalk although there's a big sign with cameras drawings stating "2,000 THB fine for driving vehicles on the pavement".

Many Thai's work in the cash economy. 

 

Foreigners, on the other hand, have to use the global financial banking system to remit their funds from their home country to Thailand, thus, a money paper trail, with precise amounts, times, and dates.  Gotcha.  

[KhunHeineken]

10 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Or there again they may just want you to file your tax return and there will be no paid for alternative. My guess is that TRD will not follow the Immigration model, I'm betting this one is strictly above board.

I am giving consideration to all possibilities of collection and enforcement.  Nothing is off the table.  They will not care about the chaos, just the revenue it brings in. 

[Yumthai]

2 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Many Thai's work in the cash economy. 

Yes and they put the cash in their bank account(s).

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Do you think their public announcements that have been in the news is their "invitation?  I am sure the Thai authorities now consider you as being "informed."

 

Sure, you can try doing "nothing" and pleading ignorance, but that may have some consequences, probably measured in baht. 

 

I think those that do nothing will just be easy targets for some quick money in the future.  A bit like saying, "no one else is wearing a helmet, so I thought I didn't need to wear one." 

I don't watch TV

I don't know any foreigners

I don't participate on social media

I don't read, write or speak Thai

 

Even if they do want me to pay income tax (which I doubt), how would I know about it?

Edited August 12 by BritManToo

[KhunHeineken]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I don't watch TV

I don't know any foreigners

I don't participate on social media don't read, write or speak Thai

 

Even if they do want me to pay income tax (which I doubt), how would I know about it?

 

BMT:  "I am here for my annual extension."

 

IO:  "Where your paper from TRD?"

 

BMT:  "I didn't know I needed a paper from the TRD."

 

IO:  "You need a paper from the TRD.  Come back when you have the TRD paper."

 

BMT:  "But extension finish soon." 

 

IO:  "Your problem, not mine." 

 

BMT:  "But, I not know about TRD paper."

 

IO:  "Next customer." 

 

Just another reason for it to be attached to the annual extension, to scoop up people pleading ignorance.   

 

Plead ignorance at your own risk. 

 

Many are lucky enough their renewal falls after the 31st March 2025, so they can sit back and wait and watch.

 

There will most likely be chaos, and most of it may not make any sense, to the point of being humorous for all of us, but at the end of the day, I just can't see the Thai's walking away from being able to extract some easy money, legit or otherwise, out of farang, and some significant money out of high net worth Thai's and foreigners. 

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, Yumthai said:

Yes and they put the cash in their bank account(s).

They live hand to mouth.  You know this. 

[BritManToo]

14 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

BMT:  "I am here for my annual extension."

 

IO:  "Where your paper from TRD?"

 

BMT:  "I didn't know I needed a paper from the TRD."

 

IO:  "You need a paper from the TRD.  Come back when you have the TRD paper."

 

BMT:  "But extension finish soon." 

 

IO:  "Your problem, not mine." 

 

BMT:  "But, I not know about TRD paper."

 

IO:  "Next customer." 

 

Just another reason for it to be attached to the annual extension, to scoop up people pleading ignorance.   

 

Plead ignorance at your own risk. 

 

Many are lucky enough their renewal falls after the 31st March 2025, so they can sit back and wait and watch.

 

There will most likely be chaos, and most of it may not make any sense, to the point of being humorous for all of us, but at the end of the day, I just can't see the Thai's walking away from being able to extract some easy money, legit or otherwise, out of farang, and some significant money out of high net worth Thai's and foreigners. 

It might happen, but I'd just leave and buy a DTV.

Or failing that, abandon my house, mortgage and family for Cambodia or PI.

Edited August 12 by BritManToo

[sometimewoodworker]

6 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

2) What would the approximate cost be for an agency to file a Thai Tax return for foreign tax resident? 

One of the big 4 is offering a ฿17,000 + vat fixed price, many other tax preparers offer lower and higher prices, as has been mentioned you are likely, if you have a Thai speaker with you, to get the TRD to help for free. I filed a tax return a few years ago with TRD and translator for free and got a bit over a ฿300 refund.

 

The TRD assistance is unlikely to be so good if you are trying to use a DTA reduction in tax due.

Edited August 12 by sometimewoodworker

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I don't watch TV

I don't know any foreigners

I don't participate on social media

I don't read, write or speak Thai

 

Even if they do want me to pay income tax (which I doubt), how would I know about it?

When you say  'I don't participate on social media' perhaps you should have added 'with the exception of ASEAN NOW'. 😉

 

Non the less, that aside I completely agree with you. I'm much the same as you and if I hadn't become aware of this RUMOUR and that's all it is, on ASEAN NOW I wouldn't know about it at all. 

 

And I'd that wager that there are thousands of resident expats out there who genuinely don't know about it.

 

I'll come back to that word RUMOUR that I used because many people may not be aware of how and when this RUMOUR started.

 

It started on or just after the 18th Sep last year when The Thai Enquirer published an article on the amendment to Thai tax rulings. And in that article it clearly stated 'Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand'.

 

I have yet to come across anything, anywhere that contradicts that statement. And I've made a pretty thorough search.

 

https://www.thaienquirer.com/50744/thai-government-to-tax-all-income-from-abroad-for-tax-residents-starting-2024/