If you lived here for more than 180 days in 2024,  and you did not bring funds into Thailand during 2024,  would you still have to file a Thai Tax Return in 2025 even though no tax would be payable?

 

Also, I wonder what the position is if a Thai person takes out a properly documented personal loan from an overseas company - would that loan money be taxed ? Or would it even need to be declared to the Thai Tax Authorities?

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1 hour ago, John Phuket said:

If you lived here for more than 180 days in 2024,  and you did not bring funds into Thailand during 2024,  would you still have to file a Thai Tax Return in 2025 even though no tax would be payable?

As you would have no assessable income definitely not.

 

On your second question not sure. It has been mentioned in the tax threads as being a way around the changes effective 1/01/24. Some others will, I am sure, be along shortly to argue either way.......

I have pensions, that have already been taxed in my country prior to them being remitted to my bank account in Thailand. As there is, in place a DTA between Thailand and my home country I have no intention of registering with the TRD.

 

If they want me to register then they can come and invite me to, but I will not be doing it voluntarily. If all those in a similar position stick to that policy, I do not think that we will have any problems. The TRD have much bigger fish to fry. 

 

 

Edited August 10, 20241 yr by Moonlover

33 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

I have pensions, that have already been taxed in my country prior to them being remitted to my bank account in Thailand. As there is, in place a DTA between Thailand and my home country I have no intention of registering with the TRD.

 

If they want me to register then they can come and invite me to, but I will not be doing it voluntarily. If all those in a similar position stick to that policy, I do not think that we will have any problems. The TRD have much bigger fish to fry. 

There is no requirement to file a tax return, however there is a requirement to pay tax if any tax is due.

 

Should you decide not to pay any tax due and the TRD decides to audit you the invitation will be one that you cannot refuse 

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

There is no requirement to file a tax return, however there is a requirement to pay tax if any tax is due.

 

Should you decide not to pay any tax due and the TRD decides to audit you the invitation will be one that you cannot refuse 

Wow, you've got me quaking in my flip-flops!

7 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Wow, you've got me quaking in my flip-flops!

From what you have written, I strongly suspect you will find that 15 minutes effort today will avoid many hours inconvenience later, but each to their own. My experience of righteous indignation and cast iron principles is that they are usually misplaced. Good luck regardless whatever you decide to do.

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

If they want me to register then they can come and invite me to, but I will not be doing it voluntarily.

 

it's not surprising that (too) many foreigners think they need an invitation to follow (a) the law in thailand!

(please don't use the argument that thais don't follow the law either...)

 

what i suggest is, first, try to inform yourself about your personal tax situation and manage

your money transfer to thailand accordingly for this 2024.

 

second, wait until the end of february 2025 with requestiong a TIN number; you'll still have one month

time to file your tax return for 2024.

 

 

17 hours ago, Moonlover said:

I have pensions, that have already been taxed in my country prior to them being remitted to my bank account in Thailand. As there is, in place a DTA between Thailand and my home country I have no intention of registering with the TRD.

 

If they want me to register then they can come and invite me to, but I will not be doing it voluntarily. If all those in a similar position stick to that policy, I do not think that we will have any problems. The TRD have much bigger fish to fry. 

 

 

 

People have a distorted perception of the TRDs capabilities and interest in their affairs. Not that I have any special knowledge about TRD, but I just find claims about the TRD knowing everyone’s global financial information and having the manpower and interest in going after retirees with meager pensions for not filing a form, to be unrealistic. 

Edited August 11, 20241 yr by Everyman

25 minutes ago, Everyman said:

 

People have a distorted perception of the TRDs capabilities and interest in their affairs. Not that I have any special knowledge about TRD, but I just find claims about the TRD knowing everyone’s global financial information and having the manpower and interest in going after retirees with meager pensions for not filing a form, to be unrealistic. 

Exactly. I've done quite a trawl of the internet trying to find any article that suggests that we expat pensioners could be targeted by the TRD and I have come up with nothing, not even a hint that it might be true. In fact there are quite few websites that suggests it's quite the opposite, articles that I have previously referred to a number of times on this forum.

 

The only place where I have found any reference to this notion is right here on ASEAN NOW. IMO it's nothing more than a home grown rumour.

18 hours ago, Moonlover said:

I have pensions, that have already been taxed in my country prior to them being remitted to my bank account in Thailand. As there is, in place a DTA between Thailand and my home country I have no intention of registering with the TRD.

 

If they want me to register then they can come and invite me to, but I will not be doing it voluntarily. If all those in a similar position stick to that policy, I do not think that we will have any problems. The TRD have much bigger fish to fry. 

 

 

A DTA ensures the same money is not taxed twice.  A DTA does not ensure the money is only taxed in one country. 

 

What you post about is a common myth, which this guy explains quite well.

 

 

 

18 hours ago, Moonlover said:

f they want me to register then they can come and invite me to, but I will not be doing it voluntarily.

An invitation that I a suspect will be eventually attached to your annual extension. 

Edited August 11, 20241 yr by KhunHeineken

14 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

An invitation that I a suspect will be eventually attached to your annual extension. 

Another of the many unsubstantiated rumours. Go off and have a read of this article.

 

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/dont-panic-because-thai-revenue-has-written-to-100000-tax-residents-urging-registration-465598

16 hours ago, motdaeng said:

t's not surprising that (too) many foreigners think they need an invitation to follow (a) the law in thailand!

What's the (b) option?

40 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

A DTA ensures the same money is not taxed twice.  A DTA does not ensure the money is only taxed in one country. 

 

What you post about is a common myth, which this guy explains quite well.

 

 

 

A DTA does not ensure that funds are not taxed twice. The purpose of a DTA is to identiify primary responsibility for the collection of tax and where appropriate, the secondary also. It is entirely feasible that funds arising in country A my be taxed at X percent. The DTA may then assign the right to tax those funds to country B, at Y percent. If Y percent is higher and country A does not issue a tax credit, or the tax credit is not usable for whatever reason, or the tax credit cannot be carried forward to a subsequent year (where tax years do not align) the funds will not only be taxed at a higher rate but potentially also taxed twice. I understand from past conversations that issuance of tax credits and carry forwards in Thailand is an issue where the way forward is unclear.

Edited August 11, 20241 yr by chiang mai

19 hours ago, Moonlover said:

I have pensions, that have already been taxed in my country prior to them being remitted to my bank account in Thailand. As there is, in place a DTA between Thailand and my home country I have no intention of registering with the TRD.

 

If they want me to register then they can come and invite me to, but I will not be doing it voluntarily. If all those in a similar position stick to that policy, I do not think that we will have any problems. The TRD have much bigger fish to fry. 

 

 

That may still be breaking Thai Tax Law if you ae here more than 180 days of 2024 and do remit ASSESSABLE income then according to their laws, you should obtain a Thai Tax ID number and fill out the tax forms.  They of course say it will be up to the individual to OBEY the law.  If the DTA of your country with Thailand exempts monies you remit then and you have no other asssessable income, then by their law you don't have to get an ID number and file taxes.  If you do have assessable income, they could at some point audit you back for up to 10 years and require you to pay any back tax with penalties too.  The Revenue Department provides an ENGLISH translation of their tax laws as well as the Thai version too.  Easy enough to find and understand.  Best of luck to you!

Apparently, if you've been spending money in Thailand which is earned in the current year you've be liable for taxation. Technically they could audit all of us anytime and request back taxes for 5,10,20 years. The real news will be when they start doing this. For all any of us know they could backtrack on this if they get enough blowback and you would have wasted time and money trying to comply with this "new" law.

2 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

Apparently, if you've been spending money in Thailand which is earned in the current year you've be liable for taxation. Technically they could audit all of us anytime and request back taxes for 5,10,20 years. The real news will be when they start doing this. For all any of us know they could backtrack on this if they get enough blowback and you would have wasted time and money trying to comply with this "new" law.

Not all of us, the DTA still applied during the other years too and US govt pensions were still non-taxable for the Thais.  We only had to pay US taxes on that income and any other income we happened to have.

6 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

Apparently, if you've been spending money in Thailand which is earned in the current year you've be liable for taxation. Technically they could audit all of us anytime and request back taxes for 5,10,20 years. The real news will be when they start doing this. For all any of us know they could backtrack on this if they get enough blowback and you would have wasted time and money trying to comply with this "new" law.

Statute of limitations for back audits is 3 years, 10 years where no return was filed and evasion is detected.

Just now, chiang mai said:

Statute of limitations for back audits is 3 years, 10 years where no return was filed and evasion is detected.

 

Very well but that still includes basically all of us. I bet 90% of people living here have been spending money earned/acquired in the current year (regardless of origin) and thus liable for taxation. The only thing this new law changes is that you no longer can deny it.

 

If their plan is to use this as the beginning of a new expat auditing program then we'll be hearing about that in 2025. Personally I'd rather pay back taxes and fines than to rush out and try to preempt this by getting a tax ID and filing. 

 

1 minute ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

Very well but that still includes basically all of us. I bet 90% of people living here have been spending money earned/acquired in the current year (regardless of origin) and thus liable for taxation. The only thing this new law changes is that you no longer can deny it.

 

If their plan is to use this as the beginning of a new expat auditing program then we'll be hearing about that in 2025. Personally I'd rather pay back taxes and fines than to rush out and try to preempt this by getting a tax ID and filing. 

 

I don't mean to frighten anyone but the penalties for not filing, when taxes are owed, are draconian.

4 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I don't mean to frighten anyone but the penalties for not filing, when taxes are owed, are draconian.

Instead of all this noodling and ranting about taxes THIS would be an interesting topic of discussion.

 

So let's assume you're one of the guys not online and paying attention then 2025 rolls around and obviously you've not filed. Personally knowing how Thailand operates I'm incredulous this person would be targeted and penalized. If they're serious about this they will in my opinion notify us properly though immigration.

 

Thailand is a country which struggles to enforce even common laws like traffic tickets. All my experience tells me unless you interact directly with an officer the laws hardly even exist. It's not like our countries where they send you a bill and when you don't pay it follow up with a court order. Not saying that can't happen but that's never been how the country functions and I don't think they're even capable of this even if it was in their nature to do so.

 

I know people disagree, just my 2 cents.

14 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I don't mean to frighten anyone but the penalties for not filing, when taxes are owed, are draconian.

I presume by 'draconian' you mean huge financial penalties that would render me baht-less. In which case I would be on a plane within hours back to the UK. Come to think of it that would be even worse than being baht-less here.....I'm off to the tax office as soon as I've finished my coffee.

Edited August 11, 20241 yr by DaLa
Spelling

3 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

Instead of all this noodling and ranting about taxes THIS would be an interesting topic of discussion.

 

So let's assume you're one of the guys not online and paying attention then 2025 rolls around and obviously you've not filed. Personally knowing how Thailand operates I'm incredulous this person would be targeted and penalized. If they're serious about this they will in my opinion notify us properly though immigration.

 

Thailand is a country which struggles to enforce even common laws like traffic tickets. All my experience tells me unless you interact directly with an officer the laws hardly even exist. It's not like our countries where they send you a bill and when you don't pay it follow up with a court order. Not saying that can't happen but that's never been how the country functions and I don't think they're even capable of this even if it was in their nature to do so.

 

I know people disagree, just my 2 cents.

I don't think any Thai government official ever expected foreign pensioners living in Thailand to ever file tax returns. This agenda is being pushed by the usual bunch who Iive in fear of everything.

14 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I don't mean to frighten anyone but the penalties for not filing, when taxes are owed, are draconian.

2,000bht fine for those that should but don't file.

1 minute ago, DaLa said:

I presume by 'draconian' you mean huge financial penalties that would render me baht-less. In which case I would be on a plane within hours back to the UK. Come to think of it that would be even worse than being baht-less here.....I'm off to the tax office as soon as I've finished my coffee.

It's Sunday, they're closed! 🙂

 

As I recall, jail time is not uncommon if evasion is suspected.

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

2,000bht fine for those that should but don't file.

Only where no tax is owed. If tax is owed, it increases to 200k and one year inside.

Edited August 11, 20241 yr by chiang mai

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Only where no tax is owed. If tax is owed, it increases to 200k and one year inside.

Rather than running scared on rumours.

Why not just wait.

 

Pages of nonsense posted by fools IMHO.

Unless they refuse me an extension, I'm paying nothing.

If they do refuse me an extension, it's 5 year DTV time, and still no money from me.

Edited August 11, 20241 yr by BritManToo

Just now, BritManToo said:

Rather than running scared on rumours.

Why not just wait.

 

Pages of nonsense posted by fools IMHO.

So why even read them, let alone participate!

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

2,000bht fine for those that should but don't file.

I didn't file my TM30 for at LEAST 10 years (maybe my old land lady filed but I doubt it) but the other year out of the blue they decided they wanted it. What happened? I paid 1,600 baht fine and no mention was made that I broke the law for so many years.  That's typical of Thailand in my experience.