Longest Sentences Yet for Rioters Involved in Racist Mob Violence Across England

[youreavinalaff]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Pin your hopes on that then.

No hopes to pin. I don't even know him.

 

I'm correcting your mistake. You denied he'd work in any of the industries under discussion. He has. Your mistake. 

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

No hopes to pin. I don't even know him.

 

I'm correcting your mistake. You denied he'd work in any of the industries under discussion. He has. Your mistake. 

OK teacher.

 

 

[RayC]

34 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I suggested a while ago that this discussion is meaning less.  

 

It's taken you this long to agree.

 

Then why did you instigate it in that case?

[youreavinalaff]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

OK teacher.

 

 

I'm not a teacher. Not that it matters. Don't need to be a teacher to spot your howlers.

[youreavinalaff]

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

Then why did you instigate it in that case?

I didn't. 

[RayC]

8 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I didn't. 

 

I'll rephrase.

 

Why join (and continue) a "futile" discussion?

[MicroB]

13 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I am not understanding your point.

 

However, I grew up in a socialist society but socialism does not exist in western countries any more, with the exception of the NHS.

 

Socialists ( capital S ) do not IMO practice socialism, just as Communists do not practice Communism- it's just labels. Eg China claims to be Communist, but in practice it's capitalist without elections, IMO.

 

State pensions exist; they are paid through the largesse of today's taxpayers. The military is paid by the taxpayer; its not a private enterprise, which was the case until the early 20th Century, when significant parts of the british military were the Militias, which literally were private armies. Famously, the East India Company had its own armies and navy. Under present rules, residential homes are state subsidised; they take all your money until that last £25k or so. A residential home will easily burn through £50k a year, so for most people, its more or less all gone after 5-6 years. The last Conservative government wanted to put a cap on personal care, so was proposing to initiate effectively a socialist policy (ie. in the end, the State will help you to the grave). Labour has kiboshed that. The Police are also state funded, far removed from the original Bow Street Runners, that were funded throuh a business subscription. Britain still has State funded education, a socialist idea. There is also unemployment benefit and child maintenance support. Its still possible to get social housing. Having a 2 day weekend is a socialist idea. Some say Henry Ford invented it; nah, it was an idea he stole. The 2 day weekend was established in 1843 by Marsden and Lowes who secured a saturday afternoon off for Mancunian workers. Public holidays; an example of the dull hand of government interfering with the private business of enterprise. There is a reason why football matches used to all have a saturday 3pm kickoff. Then there was then paid summer break, invented by French communists in the 1930s. Maternity leave, also very socialist. Free eyeglasses and prescriptions for kids; socialist. Vouchers for childcare; socialist. Veteran's pensions from a grateful nation; socialist.

 

Lots of policies embraced by Brits who describe themselves as anti-socialist, yet would consider many of these things the natural order of things. I suspect many Americans would be quite jealous of the ability to take a paid vacation, take maternity leave or even something like redundancy rights.

 

Market Socialism and Free Market Capitalism are probably dead in the West; we don't make anything to control, because of Free Market Capitalism, and now the most ardent proponants of capitalism are finding themselves espousing quasi-communist (Godwin Law Mk2) policies of protectionism (what gives them the goddam right to tell the owners of a company where they should make things).

 

We are left with vacuous Populism. No one calls themselves a populist; that's a labeled applied by others. Populism has no ideology besides being all things to all men, ideas that bend with the wind. Populism feeds on fear.

 

Charlie Chaplin's largely adlibbed Great Dictator speech still has an impact 90 years later, thanks a bit to an Inception soundtrack

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8HdOHrc3OQ

 

Perhaps the old isms have had their day; they were largely responses to technological changes in society. Our societies are undergoing profound change due to technology, but the question will be whether we become slaves to the technologies or masters. And become masters for what purpose; we want the technologies to fix the problems in the world (eg environmental damage) and to free our time up (which is the general direction of travel taken ever since man discovered fire leading to the paid time off or early retirement in Thailand). This is when we get into gene Roddenberry visions of a society where money has no meaning.

 

Maybe that ism is technoutopianism. Though that is an ideology, but not a political ideology (yet).

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, MicroB said:

 

State pensions exist; they are paid through the largesse of today's taxpayers. The military is paid by the taxpayer; its not a private enterprise, which was the case until the early 20th Century, when significant parts of the british military were the Militias, which literally were private armies. Famously, the East India Company had its own armies and navy. Under present rules, residential homes are state subsidised; they take all your money until that last £25k or so. A residential home will easily burn through £50k a year, so for most people, its more or less all gone after 5-6 years. The last Conservative government wanted to put a cap on personal care, so was proposing to initiate effectively a socialist policy (ie. in the end, the State will help you to the grave). Labour has kiboshed that. The Police are also state funded, far removed from the original Bow Street Runners, that were funded throuh a business subscription. Britain still has State funded education, a socialist idea. There is also unemployment benefit and child maintenance support. Its still possible to get social housing. Having a 2 day weekend is a socialist idea. Some say Henry Ford invented it; nah, it was an idea he stole. The 2 day weekend was established in 1843 by Marsden and Lowes who secured a saturday afternoon off for Mancunian workers. Public holidays; an example of the dull hand of government interfering with the private business of enterprise. There is a reason why football matches used to all have a saturday 3pm kickoff. Then there was then paid summer break, invented by French communists in the 1930s. Maternity leave, also very socialist. Free eyeglasses and prescriptions for kids; socialist. Vouchers for childcare; socialist. Veteran's pensions from a grateful nation; socialist.

 

Lots of policies embraced by Brits who describe themselves as anti-socialist, yet would consider many of these things the natural order of things. I suspect many Americans would be quite jealous of the ability to take a paid vacation, take maternity leave or even something like redundancy rights.

 

Market Socialism and Free Market Capitalism are probably dead in the West; we don't make anything to control, because of Free Market Capitalism, and now the most ardent proponants of capitalism are finding themselves espousing quasi-communist (Godwin Law Mk2) policies of protectionism (what gives them the goddam right to tell the owners of a company where they should make things).

 

We are left with vacuous Populism. No one calls themselves a populist; that's a labeled applied by others. Populism has no ideology besides being all things to all men, ideas that bend with the wind. Populism feeds on fear.

 

Charlie Chaplin's largely adlibbed Great Dictator speech still has an impact 90 years later, thanks a bit to an Inception soundtrack

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8HdOHrc3OQ

 

Perhaps the old isms have had their day; they were largely responses to technological changes in society. Our societies are undergoing profound change due to technology, but the question will be whether we become slaves to the technologies or masters. And become masters for what purpose; we want the technologies to fix the problems in the world (eg environmental damage) and to free our time up (which is the general direction of travel taken ever since man discovered fire leading to the paid time off or early retirement in Thailand). This is when we get into gene Roddenberry visions of a society where money has no meaning.

 

Maybe that ism is technoutopianism. Though that is an ideology, but not a political ideology (yet).

A very good summary.

 

Though we I think the answer on the technology front is in, it’s already controlled by plutocrats.

 

“Conservative government wanted to put a cap on personal care, so was proposing to initiate effectively a socialist policy (ie. in the end, the State will help you to the grave). Labour has kiboshed that.”

 

And rightly so. It was an attempt to protect the estates of the wealthy at cost to the rest of society.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

The good news just keeps coming:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/23/brothers-jailed-riot-rotherham-hotel

 

More please.

[MicroB]

On 8/23/2024 at 9:12 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

A very good summary.

 

Though we I think the answer on the technology front is in, it’s already controlled by plutocrats.

 

“Conservative government wanted to put a cap on personal care, so was proposing to initiate effectively a socialist policy (ie. in the end, the State will help you to the grave). Labour has kiboshed that.”

 

And rightly so. It was an attempt to protect the estates of the wealthy at cost to the rest of society.

 

 

 

They proposed raising the cap to about £100k. That's not protecting the wealthy. Labour supported this Conservative policy, so the reversal is not due to some change in principle, but about the current state of the UK finances. Essentially, the Labour policy is abandoning Cradle-to-Grave; the State might be responsible for bringing you into this world, but you are on your own when you leave it.

 

When you pay for a residential home, that's not your savings going to the state, that's your savings going to a private company. 84% of care home beds are in the private sector. The biggest operator is HC-One, and they operate through an offshore company. Essentially, the national wealth, which is what sits in people's savings accounts, and which generally finds its way into the rest of the UK economy, is being siphoned out.

 

https://www.epsu.org/article/uk-s-largest-care-home-operator-shifts-cash-tax-havens-new-report

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/07/care-home-operators-accused-of-extracting-disguised-profits

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59504521

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/oct/13/canadian-owners-of-signature-care-homes-avoid-uk-taxes-researchers-claim

 

The average annual cost of a UK care home is £50,000 per resident, with maybe 50 residents per home.

 

Most of these homes plead poverty, but the numbers don't add up.

 

Potentially, £15bn a year is extracted from the UK economy. Savings, estates, are passed on. The very basis of the idea was created in the early 19th Century in order to move wealth of the hands of a few elderly people  into the wider economy.

 

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

14 minutes ago, MicroB said:

 

They proposed raising the cap to about £100k. That's not protecting the wealthy. Labour supported this Conservative policy, so the reversal is not due to some change in principle, but about the current state of the UK finances. Essentially, the Labour policy is abandoning Cradle-to-Grave; the State might be responsible for bringing you into this world, but you are on your own when you leave it.

 

When you pay for a residential home, that's not your savings going to the state, that's your savings going to a private company. 84% of care home beds are in the private sector. The biggest operator is HC-One, and they operate through an offshore company. Essentially, the national wealth, which is what sits in people's savings accounts, and which generally finds its way into the rest of the UK economy, is being siphoned out.

 

https://www.epsu.org/article/uk-s-largest-care-home-operator-shifts-cash-tax-havens-new-report

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/07/care-home-operators-accused-of-extracting-disguised-profits

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59504521

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/oct/13/canadian-owners-of-signature-care-homes-avoid-uk-taxes-researchers-claim

 

The average annual cost of a UK care home is £50,000 per resident, with maybe 50 residents per home.

 

Most of these homes plead poverty, but the numbers don't add up.

 

Potentially, £15bn a year is extracted from the UK economy. Savings, estates, are passed on. The very basis of the idea was created in the early 19th Century in order to move wealth of the hands of a few elderly people  into the wider economy.

 

 

 

 

People who can afford it paying for their own care rather than the bill being passed to others.

 

Where’s the problem?

[Chomper Higgot]

Yet more good news and of course more crying from the dock:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/29/grandmother-and-daughter-plead-guilty-to-far-right-disorder-in-middlesbrough

[James105]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Yet more good news and of course more crying from the dock:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/29/grandmother-and-daughter-plead-guilty-to-far-right-disorder-in-middlesbrough

 

Any news on the violence from the Notting hill riots carnival yet where 50 police officers were attacked and 8 people were stabbed?  Seems a bit more serious than someone pulling on someones car wing mirror.  

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c07e55159kro

[JonnyF]

14 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

Any news on the violence from the Notting hill riots carnival yet where 50 police officers were attacked and 8 people were stabbed?  Seems a bit more serious than someone pulling on someones car wing mirror.  

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c07e55159kro

 

Highly unlikely.

 

Wouldn't want to appear racist in 2 tier Britain.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/24/notting-hill-carnival-example-two-tier-policing/

 

[Chomper Higgot]

57 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

Any news on the violence from the Notting hill riots carnival yet where 50 police officers were attacked and 8 people were stabbed?  Seems a bit more serious than someone pulling on someones car wing mirror.  

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c07e55159kro

That would be a different thread James.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

42 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Highly unlikely.

 

Wouldn't want to appear racist in 2 tier Britain.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/24/notting-hill-carnival-example-two-tier-policing/

 

Jonny plays the race card.

 

 

[herfiehandbag]

Reported elsewhere on the forum, man who bombarded Farage with materials from a building site during the general election campaign receives a suspended sentence.

 

Now I wonder how many months in chokey he would have received if he had thrown materials from a building site at a mosque, for example, and how quickly the police and judicial system would have moved!

 

By the way, any news on the Manchester Airport pair, or the knife wielding motorcycle gangs in Birmingham?

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Reported elsewhere on the forum, man who bombarded Farage with materials from a building site during the general election campaign receives a suspended sentence.

 

Now I wonder how many months in chokey he would have received if he had thrown materials from a building site at a mosque, for example, and how quickly the police and judicial system would have moved!

 

By the way, any news on the Manchester Airport pair, or the knife wielding motorcycle gangs in Birmingham?

We should perhaps have a catch all whataboutary thread.

 

Actually there’s enough whataboutary to have a whole sub forum.

 

 

[herfiehandbag]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

We should perhaps have a catch all whataboutary thread.

 

Actually there’s enough whataboutary to have a whole sub forum.

 

 

Little point Chomper. Like any other thread on this forum dealing with UK Politics, it would be drowned out by your incessant bellowing!

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Little point Chomper. Like any other thread on this forum dealing with UK Politics, it would be drowned out by your incessant bellowing!

There is an ignore function for those who don’t like reading views they don’t agree with.

[herfiehandbag]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There is an ignore function for those who don’t like reading views they don’t agree with.

Ah, but there are times, and certain "contexts", (a word which has of late rather assumed a different meaning") when I do agree with some of your views.

 

Life is not always black and white, right or wrong, even right or left.

 

I do tend to ignore some things, for example your perpetual spats with @JonnyF

[JonnyF]

On 8/24/2024 at 8:06 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

The good news just keeps coming:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/23/brothers-jailed-riot-rotherham-hotel

 

More please.

 

Meanwhile, child rapists are spared jail because the prisons are full of people making rude posts on FaceBook about immigration from their own homes. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13768989/child-rapist-spared-jail-prison-overcrowding.html

 

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24513379.sellafield-worker-jailed-sharing-offensive-facebook-posts/

 

Interesting that you would and @placeholder support, even celebrate this.

[JonnyF]

21 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Jonny plays the race card.

 

 

 

Highlighting 2 tier policing based on ethnicity is not playing the race card. 

 

It's highlighting 2 tier policing. I know you'd rather sweep it under the carpet since we already know you support discrimination against people based on race. I believe you call it "positive" discrimination (as long as it's a certain race being discriminated against then you consider it a positive thing). 

 

You also apply the "one drop" rule when it comes to labeling people black (Obama, Harris etc.).

 

Interesting stance for a so called anti racist.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

Meanwhile, child rapists are spared jail because the prisons are full of people making rude posts on FaceBook about immigration from their own homes. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13768989/child-rapist-spared-jail-prison-overcrowding.html

 

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24513379.sellafield-worker-jailed-sharing-offensive-facebook-posts/

 

Interesting that you would and @placeholder support, even celebrate this.

Non sequitur.

 

Actually three non sequiturs.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

Highlighting 2 tier policing based on ethnicity is not playing the race card. 

 

It's highlighting 2 tier policing. I know you'd rather sweep it under the carpet since we already know you support discrimination against people based on race. I believe you call it "positive" discrimination (as long as it's a certain race being discriminated against then you consider it a positive thing). 

 

You also apply the "one drop" rule when it comes to labeling people black (Obama, Harris etc.).

 

Interesting stance for a so called anti racist.

I ‘also apply the one drop rule’.

 

Your attempts to demonstrate that to be true are going to be interesting.

 

That aside, it’s a very odd and no longer extant ‘rule’ to drag out of the sordid history of American racism.

 

There is no two tier policing.

 

 

 

 

 

[JonnyF]

23 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I ‘also apply the one drop rule’.

 

Your attempts to demonstrate that to be true are going to be interesting.

 

That aside, it’s a very odd and no longer extant ‘rule’ to drag out of the sordid history of American racism.

 

There is no two tier policing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 have died now following the Notting Hill riots.

 

Not much focus on that. Nobody rushed through the courts and jailed to unusually long sentences within a week.

 

How many died at the so called "far right" riots? How many stabbings and sexual assaults? 

 

But the mythical far right are the problem. Notting Hill was simply a marvellous celebration of diversity marred by a few unfortunate incidents. Yeah right...

 

Two tier policing. 2 tier Britain. 2 tier reporting from the MSM. 

 

Gaslight all you want. Everyone can see it. 

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, JonnyF said:

 

2 have died now following the Notting Hill riots.

 

Not much focus on that. Nobody rushed through the courts and jailed to unusually long sentences within a week.

 

How many died at the so called "far right" riots? How many stabbings and sexual assaults? 

 

But the mythical far right are the problem. Notting Hill was simply a marvellous celebration of diversity marred by a few unfortunate incidents. Yeah right...

 

Two tier policing. 2 tier Britain. 2 tier reporting from the MSM. 

 

Gaslight all you want. Everyone can see it. 

Contact the Forum administrators, they might open a thread on the subject.

If you suggest the thread, I’ll offer up a suggestion for the title:  

 

“Yaxley Lennon’s ridiculous claimed of two tier policing gain traction amongst the far right wing and their fellow travelers the grievance junkies”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/06/england-riots-two-tier-policing-myth-widespread

 

[JonnyF]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Contact the Forum administrators, they might open a thread on the subject.

If you suggest the thread, I’ll offer up a suggestion for the title:  

 

“Yaxley Lennon’s ridiculous claimed of two tier policing gain traction amongst the far right wing and their fellow travelers the grievance junkies”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/06/england-riots-two-tier-policing-myth-widespread

 

 

What a surprise the Guardian are also gaslighting about it 😄.

 

Nothing to see here. Shut up and accept it or we will call you racist and far right. 

 

The left are creating huge problems labelling normal people far right. I predict it will backfire. 

 

Self fulfilling prophecy. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/22/2024 at 9:10 PM, Doctor Tom said:

it's the feckless, inefficient, entitled workforces in the various sectors, managed by the second rate, on behalf of the people.  

Shall we set up re education camps to instill a sense of hard work in the feckless workers, so the employers can exploit them more easily to make more profit?

 

Some of us worked to make a living. Perhaps others inherited their money.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/23/2024 at 7:34 AM, MicroB said:

but the question will be whether we become slaves to the technologies or masters.

Actually there is no question, IMO. Technology makes money, so the 1% will "own" tech for their own benefit. As usual something that could set humans free from the grind of hard labour, illness, and poverty will be used to make even more profit for the few. In this Brave New World of ours greed is everything.

Don't expect government to change it- politicians IMO are craven servants of the 1%, with their backdoor bribery, lobbyists and financial support during elections.