Religion in Thailand

[connda]

On 8/22/2024 at 1:33 AM, still kicking said:

Why are Thais so obsessed with religion? Anywhere you go you see pictures of monks (dead or alive) . Most Thais have very little money but spend it on goods for monks. I had my house and car blessed by monks Did it help me ? No. Most temples have money trees and everybody donates freely. And some monks walk around with their latest phones drink alcohol or take drugs and Thais just seem to ignore it. Well, don't compare them to catholic priests they are allowed to drink. ( I am an atheist} In India they don't eat beef because of their religion Thai monks are not supposed to acquire earthly goods (money, phones, alcohol and so on) So my question is ,,,,,, why do Thais spend most of their money on religion? Start bashing me.

It has to do with the first of the 10 Paramis or the 10 Perfections of Theravada Buddhism.

The first Parami is Dana, or generosity. 

Now in a perfect Buddhist world one would give for the sake of giving.  Unfortunately most Thais whom I know give with the full expectation of getting something in return be it as mundane as wealth and riches to more spiritual inclinations of a rebirth in a better realm of existence. 

My wife is a mix between those two - giving with the expectation of receiving something material in return, but also hoping for a better rebirth. 

For myself - I give because it is the right thing to do.  I give with no expectation of anything in return.  Why?

Most Thais follow the kind of Buddhism practiced by non-meditation "academic" monks who can be found in most city and village temples. That includes my wife.
I follow the Theravada Kammathana Forest Tradition of Thai meditation masters.

Back to the Paramis, in this case Sila, or morality. 
The kind of Buddhism practiced by non-meditation "academic" monks who can be found in city and village temples follows a rather "loose" form of morality established in the Buddhist Vinaya, or moral precepts.
The Theravada Kammathana Forest Tradition of Thai meditation masters follows a strict adherence to the Vinaya which simply is not followed by most Thai monks.

With that said, you'll probably find that lay followers of the former kind of monks to follow a loose form of morality as well as expecting "earthly rewards" for their giving of "Dana."

The lay followers of the latter Kammathana Forest Tradition are more likely to give with little expectation of "earthly rewards" but possibly an expectation that their acts of generosity will assist in the facilitation of their meditation practices, or Samadhi, and a hope to attain Nibbana (Nirvana) within a few human life-spans.

Lay follows of regular monks understand the Paramis but may not actually understand the significance of why they are important as most Thai Buddhist I personally know don't meditate, my wife included.

Lay followers of the Theravada Kammathana Forest Tradition tend to be meditation practitioners and understand that the Paramis eventually sets the conditions that lead to the outcome of the attainment of Nibbana. 

So - why are Thais so obsessed with Buddhism?  Because historically, this is a Buddhist country.  Asia in general, from Western to Central to Southeast to East Asia has a very rich, historically significant religious culture that predates Christianity.  It is what it is. 

I don't proselytize, but you did ask.  I'd suggested simply reading about the history of Buddhism.  It might answer some of your nagging questions and confusion.  Or?  It may even confuse you more.  Hard to tell actually.  Best of luck.

The 10 Perfections of Buddhism - The 10 Paramis.
Generosity (dana)
Virtue (sila)
Renunciation (nekkhamma)
Wisdom (pañña)
Energy (viriya)
Patience (khanti)
Truthfulness (sacca)
Determination (aditthana)
Lovingkindness (metta)
Equanimity (upekkha)

[connda]

Just now, connda said:

It has to do with the first of the 10 Paramis or the 10 Perfections of Theravada Buddhism.

The first Parami is Dana, or generosity. 

Now in a perfect Buddhist world one would give for the sake of giving.  Unfortunately most Thais whom I know give with the full expectation of getting something in return be it as mundane as wealth and riches to more spiritual inclinations of a rebirth in a better realm of existence. 

My wife is a mix between those two - giving with the expectation of receiving something material in return, but also hoping for a better rebirth. 

For myself - I give because it is the right thing to do.  I give with no expectation of anything in return.  Why?

Most Thais follow the kind of Buddhism practiced by non-meditation "academic" monks who can be found in most city and village temples. That includes my wife.
I follow the Theravada Kammathana Forest Tradition of Thai meditation masters.

Back to the Paramis, in this case Sila, or morality. 
The kind of Buddhism practiced by non-meditation "academic" monks who can be found in city and village temples follows a rather "loose" form of morality established in the Buddhist Vinaya, or moral precepts.
The Theravada Kammathana Forest Tradition of Thai meditation masters follows a strict adherence to the Vinaya which simply is not followed by most Thai monks.

With that said, you'll probably find that lay followers of the former kind of monks to follow a loose form of morality as well as expecting "earthly rewards" for their giving of "Dana."

The lay followers of the latter Kammathana Forest Tradition are more likely to give with little expectation of "earthly rewards" but possibly an expectation that their acts of generosity will assist in the facilitation of their meditation practices, or Samadhi, and a hope to attain Nibbana (Nirvana) within a few human life-spans.

Lay follows of regular monks understand the Paramis but may not actually understand the significance of why they are important as most Thai Buddhist I personally know don't meditate, my wife included.

Lay followers of the Theravada Kammathana Forest Tradition tend to be meditation practitioners and understand that the Paramis eventually sets the conditions that lead to the outcome of the attainment of Nibbana. 

So - why are Thais so obsessed with Buddhism?  Because historically, this is a Buddhist country.  Asia in general, from Western to Central to Southeast to East Asia has a very rich, historically significant religious culture that predates Christianity.  It is what it is. 

I don't proselytize, but you did ask.  I'd suggested simply reading about the history of Buddhism.  It might answer some of your nagging questions and confusion.  Or?  It may even confuse you more.  Hard to tell actually.  Best of luck.

The 10 Perfections of Buddhism - The 10 Paramis.
Generosity (dana)
Virtue (sila)
Renunciation (nekkhamma)
Wisdom (pañña)
Energy (viriya)
Patience (khanti)
Truthfulness (sacca)
Determination (aditthana)
Lovingkindness (metta)
Equanimity (upekkha)

Dasa Pāramīs

 

 

1. Dāna-pāramī: generosity

2. Sīla-pāramī: virtue

3. Nekkhamma-pāramī: renunciation of sensuality (and of the household life)

4. Paññā-pāramī: the search for discernment

5. Viriya-pāramī: persistence

6. Khanti-pāramī: endurance, patience

7. Sacca-pāramī: truthfulness

8. Adhiṭṭhāna-pāramī: determination

9. Mettā-pāramī: goodwill

10. Upekkhā-pāramī: equanimity

 

 

The Four Brahmavihārās – The Sublime Attitudes

 

1. Loving kindness (maitrī/mettā)

2. Compassion (karuṇā)

3. Sympathetic Joy (muditā)

4. Equanimity (upekṣā/upekkhā)

 

 

Dāna: Generosity

 

Dāna pāramī saṃpanno, (generosity / perfection / endowed)

Dāna upapāramī saṃpanno,

Dāna paramattha-pāramī saṃpanno,

Mettā – Maitrī - Karunā - Muditā - Upekkhā pāramī saṃpanno

Itipi so bhagavā

 

Endowed with the perfection of giving, (parami)

Endowed with the higher perfection of giving, (upaparami)

Endowed with the ultimate perfection of giving, (paramatta parami)

Endowed with the perfection of loving kindness, friendliness, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity,

So indeed is the Blessed One.

 

Sīla: Virtue

Sīla pāramī saṃpanno, Sīla upapāramī saṃpanno, Sīla paramattha-pāramī saṃpanno, Mettā Maitrī Karunā Muditā Upekkhā pāramī saṃpanno, itipi so bhagavā

 

Endowed with the perfection of virtue, endowed with the higher perfection of virtue, endowed with the ultimate perfection of virtue, endowed with the perfection of loving kindness, friendliness, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity, so indeed is the Blessed One.

 

Nekkhama: Renunciation

Nekkhamma pāramī saṃpanno, Nekkhamma upapāramī saṃpanno, Nekkhamma paramattha-pāramī saṃpanno, Mettā Maitrī Karunā Muditā Upekkhā pāramī saṃpanno, itipi so bhagavā

 

Endowed with the perfection of renunciation, endowed with the higher perfection of renunciation, endowed with the ultimate perfection of renunciation, endowed with the perfection of loving kindness, friendliness, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity, so indeed is the Blessed One.

 

Vīriya: Persistence

Vīriya pāramī saṃpanno, Vīriya upapāramī saṃpanno, Vīriya paramattha-pāramī saṃpanno, Mettā Maitrī Karunā Muditā Upekkhā pāramī saṃpanno, itipi so bhagavā

 

Endowed with the perfection of energy, endowed with the higher perfection of energy, endowed with the ultimate perfection of energy, endowed with the perfection of loving kindness, friendliness, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity, so indeed is the Blessed One.

 

Paññā: Wisdom (Discernment)

Paññā pāramī saṃpanno, Paññā upapāramī saṃpanno, Paññā paramattha-pāramī saṃpanno, Mettā Maitrī Karunā Muditā Upekkhā pāramī saṃpanno, itipi so bhagavā

 

Endowed with the perfection of wisdom, endowed with the higher perfection of wisdom, endowed with the ultimate perfection of wisdom, endowed with the perfection of loving kindness, friendliness, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity, so indeed is the Blessed One.

 

Khanti: Patience

Khanti pāramī saṃpanno, Khanti upapāramī saṃpanno, Khanti paramattha-pāramī saṃpanno, Mettā Maitrī Karunā Muditā Upekkhā pāramī saṃpanno, itipi so bhagavā

 

Endowed with the perfection of patience, endowed with the higher perfection of patience, endowed with the ultimate perfection of patience, endowed with the perfection of loving kindness, friendliness, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity, so indeed is the Blessed One.

 

Sacca: Truthfulness (Honesty)

Sacca pāramī saṃpanno, Sacca upapāramī saṃpanno, Sacca paramattha-pāramī saṃpanno, Mettā Maitrī Karunā Muditā Upekkhā pāramī saṃpanno, itipi so bhagavā

 

Endowed with the perfection of honesty, endowed with the higher perfection of honesty, endowed with the ultimate perfection of honesty, endowed with the perfection of loving kindness, friendliness, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity, so indeed is the Blessed One.

 

Adhiṭṭhāna: Determination

Adhiṭṭhāna pāramī saṃpanno, Adhiṭṭhāna upapāramī saṃpanno, Adhiṭṭhāna paramattha-pāramī saṃpanno, Mettā Maitrī Karunā Muditā Upekkhā pāramī saṃpanno, itipi so bhagavā

 

Endowed with the perfection of determination, endowed with the higher perfection of determination, endowed with the ultimate perfection of determination, endowed with the perfection of loving kindness, friendliness, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity, so indeed is the Blessed One.

 

Mettā: Goodwill

Mettā pāramī saṃpanno, Mettā upapāramī saṃpanno, Mettā paramattha-pāramī saṃpanno, Mettā Maitrī Karunā Muditā Upekkhā pāramī saṃpanno, itipi so bhagavā

 

Endowed with the perfection of loving-kindness, endowed with the higher perfection of loving-kindness, endowed with the ultimate perfection of loving-kindness, endowed with the perfection of loving kindness, friendliness, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity, so indeed is the Blessed One.

 

Upekkhā: Equanimity

Upekkhā pāramī saṃpanno, Upekkhā upapāramī saṃpanno, Upekkhā paramattha-pāramī saṃpanno, Mettā Maitrī Karunā Muditā Upekkhā pāramī saṃpanno, itipi so bhagavā

 

Endowed with the perfection of equanimity, endowed with the higher perfection of equanimity, endowed with the ultimate perfection of equanimity, endowed with the perfection of loving kindness, friendliness, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity, so indeed is the Blessed One.

[connda]

2 minutes ago, connda said:

I am an atheist

There is no "God" in Buddhism.  Buddhism in not theistic. 
Siddhartha Gautama was a man.  Siddhartha Gautama Buddha was a man awakened to an unrealized potential within all men.

Although called a "religion," I see Buddhism as a Philosophy In Action.  And I practice Buddhism.  You will be want to find me say, "I practice the religion of Buddhism" as I don't consider Buddhism to be a religion.  But i am in a minority. 

But with that said, Buddhist Cosmology would blow you away with its pantheon of deities from the lowest realms of Hell to the highest forms of Brahmanic gods.  Practice meditation for a few decades and it suddenly doesn't see so far-fetched.  Just saying - if you haven't touched it, then you can't know.

However, with that said, I am a Buddhist within the Theravada Kammathana Tradition.  There is no "god worship" here.  But our fellow Buddhist practitioners in the Mahayana and the Tibetan Vajrayāna sects are a little more "deity-centric" in their beliefs.

[bokningar]

On 8/22/2024 at 11:59 PM, georgegeorgia said:

We must respect all religions but one we must try to respect is the Muslim people and rid this world of Islamophobia and show love 

Go and live in Afghanistan o Iran for a few ear and then say then again

[Photoguy21]

On 8/23/2024 at 12:22 PM, ChrisKC said:

Buddhists are atheists - this means they do not follow or pursue a theistic religion

 

Though myself, I am on the philosophy side of things - I am not interested in the rituals or believe in the afterlife or spirits. hours and hours of chanting; these aspects that I reject but accept that common practices probably have some merit towards referencing religiosity.

 

Its partly political and cultural I think; everybody seems to need to know what "religion" is represented in all countries!

What Buddhism actually says is that there may or may not be a God. It is irrelevant as it is up to the individual to act in a good way

[connda]

1 minute ago, Photoguy21 said:

What Buddhism actually says is that there may or may not be a God

No it doesn't. 
Look right above the Islamaphobic post above yours.  👆
 

Summary:

There is no "God" in Buddhism.  Buddhism in not theistic.  Siddhartha Gautama was a man.  Siddhartha Gautama Buddha was a man awakened to an unrealized potential within all men.

But with that said, Buddhist Cosmology would blow you away with its pantheon of deities from the lowest realms of Hell to the highest forms of Brahmanic gods.

[stoner]

On 8/22/2024 at 3:49 AM, MalcolmB said:

So most Thais are not really religious at all.

 

Apart from the Muslims, and even worse, the Christians.

i have seen a few weird young westerners, mostly Americans, going around trying to convert the locals to Jesus. 

I saw them in Soi 6 years ago and have heard they also descend on universities trying to convert. The Thais mostly don’t like them. 

 

 

 

 

you were living in thailand years ago ? 

[MalcolmB]

1 hour ago, stoner said:

 

you were living in thailand years ago ? 

Holiday. 
First trip straight to soi 6

[Photoguy21]

20 hours ago, connda said:

No it doesn't. 
Look right above the Islamaphobic post above yours.  👆
 

Summary:

There is no "God" in Buddhism.  Buddhism in not theistic.  Siddhartha Gautama was a man.  Siddhartha Gautama Buddha was a man awakened to an unrealized potential within all men.

But with that said, Buddhist Cosmology would blow you away with its pantheon of deities from the lowest realms of Hell to the highest forms of Brahmanic gods.

You can think what you like but they do not speculate on the existence of a god. Saw the post above mine that you refer to. Can we stop these words ending in phobia as a phobia is a fear of something. I would suggest that some of the people who think Islam is the answer to go and live in an Islamic country. I have spent 20 years in such countries and they vary. Some are a lot more tolerant than others. A friend of mine is a Muslim and a nicer person would be hard to find but there are extremists in those countries. Their ideas you could not put anywhere on the internet nor should anyone want to.

Edited August 26 by Photoguy21