3 hours ago, Yumthai said:

People who are able to remit THB6M/year certainly meet the requirements to apply for a LTR visa and be legally tax exempted on all their foreign remittances, if they choose to do so.

So, they do something about taxes.

Not sitting on the fence and wait and see

2 hours ago, khunPer said:

Being snowbird from the Northern hemisphere should not enforce income tax, as a stay will be split over two tax-years

Only the first time    (duh!)

55 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Which is another way of saying you can't provide a link. I thought that might be the case.

No skin off my nose, what you believe or think, or how you want to appear to forum members as a consequence of the things you believe.

2 hours ago, motdaeng said:

sorry, but that's not correct.

staying january to march and from oktober to december in the same year results in more than 180 days in a tax year ... snowbirds need to stay under 180 days if they like to avoid any tax issues .

..

Yes, if you repeat being a snowbird with a total stay for more 180+ days within a calendar year.

54 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

                 As is usual on this forum,  certain topics , provoke certain members , to promote themselves to the level of "expert"    Often based on whatever work they did back home  prior to their retirement. 

                Its not  surprising, when one considers the age of many who frequent this forum   its only to be expected that some retirees in the autumn years of their lives might feel the need to appear "relevant" once again, by dishing out  well meant  ( but inaccurate ) advice, 

                 Then there are  those who despite knowing even less about this subject,  delight in spreading  panic  and posting speculative , scaremongering, rubbish  with no basis in fact.

                  Finally lets not forget about the all dubious  "professionals"  only too keen to offer  their  totally unessessary services   for a generous fee  to those shaking in thier boots with fear

                   Astonishingly some people appear to have actually acted on the "advice" handed out by these charlatans, and  reports of people visiting tax offices, only to be sent packing, tells us all we need to know about how seriously the authorities are taking this matter. 

                    Would   anybody on this forum who  found themselves  in trouble with the police,  seriously  seek , take , or  act on any advice dished out by an annonymous sttanger claiming to be a  retired police officer from a western country ?    I sincerely hope not    

                   

Intended, i suspect, to come across as perceptive and worldly wise, it only made me wonder how you managed to become so jaded.

All ifs and buts but no decision has been made how to track foreigners  who don’t earn a living in Thailand like retirees and don’t have a TIN. 

2 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

All ifs and buts but no decision has been made how to track foreigners  who don’t earn a living in Thailand like retirees and don’t have a TIN. 

I would be extremely surprised to learn that the TRD intended to track foreigners period.

 

From my dated and limited professional interactions with HMRC years ago,....no wait, I can't tell you that otherwise I risk appearing relevant or scaremongering or any of the things that some people accuse others of, when they say something, damn and blast!  Oh what the heck, I'll say it any way..........

 

Revenue Departments don't need to track people when all they have to do is watch transactions and look at the reporting done by banks. When they see transactions that make them curious, they simply ask questions.  Years ago I imported funds to buy a condo and BOT called me to ask what I was doing, that wasn't supposed to be part of the process and it wasn't written down anywhere, but they called nevertheless. 7 mill for a condo in the North was a lot of money back then so somebody decided to check, so I told them I was retired etc etc. Of course, when you've got Immigration....no wait, I can't say that, that's scaremongering, damn again. What I can safely say (I hope) is that it's an increasingly joined up electronic world which makes trying to do things discretely, difficult at times.

17 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I would be extremely surprised to learn that the TRD intended to track foreigners period.

 

From my dated and limited professional interactions with HMRC years ago,....no wait, I can't tell you that otherwise I risk appearing relevant or scaremongering or any of the things that some people accuse others of, when they say something, damn and blast!  Oh what the heck, I'll say it any way..........

 

Revenue Departments don't need to track people when all they have to do is watch transactions and look at the reporting done by banks. When they see transactions that make them curious, they simply ask questions.  Years ago I imported funds to buy a condo and BOT called me to ask what I was doing, that wasn't supposed to be part of the process and it wasn't written down anywhere, but they called nevertheless. 7 mill for a condo in the North was a lot of money back then so somebody decided to check, so I told them I was retired etc etc. Of course, when you've got Immigration....no wait, I can't say that, that's scaremongering, damn again. What I can safely say (I hope) is that it's an increasingly joined up electronic world which makes trying to do things discretely, difficult at times.

Where are they going to get all the staff to chase up the 3 plus million expats retired or working in Thailand ?

17 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

Where are they going to get all the staff to chase up the 3 plus million expats retired or working in Thailand ?

and anybody else who stays 180 days or more in a year

18 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

Where are they going to get all the staff to chase up the 3 plus million expats retired or working in Thailand ?

Once again, I don't foresee much chasing up at all. If I had to guess at how this will move forward, the model would look something like this:

 

Phase I - current and maybe next one or two tax years - TRD ramps up staffing, comes up to speed on DTA's. The number of people filing tax returns for the first time increases markedly. TRD steps up investigations of high value remittances and audits more foreigners.

 

Phase II - Organic growth of the tax net reaches a plateau, tax clearance certificates are mentioned increasingly, this probably causes more people to file returns for the first time.

 

Phase III - Linkage in place between visa's and tax.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

it hasn't stopped you and others quoting various fictional  possibly unpleasant yet conflicting  scenarios though has it  for example in your case 

"..if you don't file, you don't get a visa and you have to leave, that sort of thing"    and then...

" If the TRD has determined taxes are owed, they are payable immediately and the person will be prevented from leaving until they are paid."

   So do the rest of us uninformed mere mortals  need to prepare  for detention or deportation ?   or should we prepare for both, just to be on the safe side?

There is a big difference between advising somebody and relaying the facts, I'm pretty sure that what I have done is to relay the facts/law/rules as I understand them.

 

As far as whatifery is concerned: This is a social media discussion forum, I think members are well within their rights to hypothesise and offer opinion based on fact. If that sort of extrapolation of information leaves some people feeling uncomfortable I have to wonder why. It has been said many times by numerous posters over the past nine months that tax clearance certificates appear probable at some point in the future, failure to provide one would hinder the visa extension process, that's perfectly logical. Fictional? Yes. Probable? Yes also!

2 hours ago, Lorry said:

So, they do something about taxes.

Not sitting on the fence and wait and see

I suspect everybody would make a move to continue living their life - untaxed - as usual, unfortunately most of the people do not meet the financial requirements to do so.

3 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Or just as likely ....

                                Phase one ,     the revenue department becomes surprised by the number of  foreigners attempting to file unecessary tax returns  ( due to advice they have received from "experts" on forums like this"

                                 Phase 2            the revenue department  issues guidance advising expats that it is not required

                                 Phase 3            Forum experts , becoming indignant and losing face double down on the scaremongering

                                 Phase 4             The Thai revenue department , not being inclined to look a gift horse in the mouth, and now 

                                                             having become more  aware of the amount of money involved due to the number of                                                                           enquiries  from worried expats. announce a major change in the legislation which will cause 

                                                             thousands of people to be liable to be taxed

                                  Phase 5            Forum experts pat each other on the back telling us they were right all along                                                          

Whatever makes you feel comfortable.....I get that you don't like anyone talking about tax and providing information, presumably because it scares you. I get also that you think anyone who knows more than you about Thai tax is a bad guy with no scruples or morals and is thoroughly untrustworthy. Sorry I can't help you.

12 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

There is a big difference between advising somebody and relaying the facts, I'm pretty sure that what I have done is to relay the facts/law/rules as I understand them.

 

As far as whatifery is concerned: This is a social media discussion forum, I think members are well within their rights to hypothesise and offer opinion based on fact. If that sort of extrapolation of information leaves some people feeling uncomfortable I have to wonder why. It has been said many times by numerous posters over the past nine months that tax clearance certificates appear probable at some point in the future, failure to provide one would hinder the visa extension process, that's perfectly logical. Fictional? Yes. Probable? Yes also!

People  being told by others that they are going to suffer either a heavy tax bill or some draconian punishment  are feeling uncomfortable , and you have to wonder why ?     I would have thought it was glaringly obvious

Again most of  what has been said by the various posters on this subject over the past 9 months has been totally  irrelevant ,  

9 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Whatever makes you feel comfortable.....I get that you don't like anyone talking about tax and providing information, presumably because it scares you. I get also that you think anyone who knows more than you about Thai tax is a bad guy with no scruples or morals and is thoroughly untrustworthy. Sorry I can't help you.

 No need to apologise I didn't  request your assistance,   you must be confusing me with somebody else,    

25 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

It has been said many times by numerous posters over the past nine months that tax clearance certificates appear probable at some point in the future, failure to provide one would hinder the visa extension process, that's perfectly logical. Fictional? Yes. Probable? Yes also!

It's possible not probable. Or can you bring facts/evidences that prove there's > 50% chance that such event happens?

1 hour ago, Jumbo1968 said:

Where are they going to get all the staff to chase up the 3 plus million expats retired or working in Thailand ?

Care to disclose where your figure of 3 plus million expats comes from .........or are you including all the Myanmar, Lao, Cambodian workers as well...

 

I have a feeling it is substantially less as last figure I saw for "expats" was about 9 to 10 times less..........If so hyperbole much.......

OP had a question. 

I wonder who helped him more - CM or the posters who call him names?

9 minutes ago, Lorry said:

OP had a question. 

I wonder who helped him more - CM or the posters who call him names?

nobody here is able to help him, despite what any of the self appointed experts say or think,  nobody yet knows how this will play out.  The OP invited people to share their experiences and opinions,  well its too early for any experiences to have been reported, , so in reality , all he is going to get is opinions, I  really can't see what use any persons opinion would be to the OP unless the person giving the opinion was a senior player in the Thai  revenue department, and even then, it would still only be an opinion  

On 8/23/2024 at 7:35 PM, Chivas said:

 

Playing devils advocate (and having proof of origin of  cash funds) if I or anybody depart the UK and bring say £5,000 hard cash into Thailand how on earth is that going to be taxed  if I stay 181 days

...

 

It won't be.

 

Neither will the OP be.

 

5 pages and counting...

If you can help anyone who comes here asking questions, thank you. We appreciate that. If we have to come in and clean up personal attacks and childish bickering like I just did, we're going to take away some people's ability to post in order to make sure people asking for advice don't just leave in frustration.

 

If you can help, please do so.

 

If you can't help yourself and want to turn every discussion into an argument, please read quietly or go elsewhere.

6 hours ago, Yumthai said:

It's possible not probable. Or can you bring facts/evidences that prove there's > 50% chance that such event happens?

Nope, there's no evidence other than the logic of it all. Any move to tax non-Thai's is a huge step change that can't be only partially done. The only way to ensure full compliance is via the visa process and Immigration. If it makes you happier I can agree to to a word other than probable, not that it changes much that's meaningful.

6 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

People  being told by others that they are going to suffer either a heavy tax bill or some draconian punishment  are feeling uncomfortable , and you have to wonder why ?     I would have thought it was glaringly obvious

Again most of  what has been said by the various posters on this subject over the past 9 months has been totally  irrelevant ,  

I could not disagree more. The vast majority of readers of the tax threads have all undergone a steep learning curve to understand the basic mechanics of the Thai tax system and the issue that is involved here. I have read all the threads and I have seen that said repeatedly. A rough calculation shows that the various tax threads have seen over 500k views, that's half a million times that readers have come looking for information and from what I have read, had many of their needs met. If there are readers out there who feel uncomfortable about hearing what the tax penalties can be (and you keep mentioning this for some reason), they need to deal with that because they are reality and many people want to understand that, I know I do.

 

I wasn't active in these discussions in the earlier stages but from what I have read here and elsewhere, the tax guide prepared by Mike Lister is not complete but it appears to have proved very useful because I have seen it linked and referenced repeatedly in various threads. Importantly, that appears to have been done at a time when there was very little else available. In more recent months, other entities such as Expat Tax have appeared and done similar things, they have answered questions that readers wanted answered. That you might not have similar questions, doesn't make you typical of the people who have been helped. That you think all this passing along of information and views has not been helpful, doesn't put you in the majority of readers on this subject. I don't mind that you don't like me or my involvement in these discussions but now that you've made your feeling known, get over it,  this thread is not about your feelings towards me, message delivered, move on.

there are two groups of forum members discussing the new tax law:

 

group A is made up of members who have studied the topic and share their knowledge with others. they present up-to-date facts and laws,

helping everyone assess their own tax situation. they also highlight that tax authorities have various scenarios for implementing the laws,

but how these will evolve in the coming months and years remains uncertain for everyone.

 

group B consists of skeptics who argue that everything is still unclear, that the new law is not enforceable, or that it might never be applied.

some of these members suggest doing nothing and waiting, as they believe nothing will happen at all. 

 

personally, i have a clear preference for which group i trust. a big thank you to those members for their tireless efforts and patience in

helping me and other members to understand the tax law better.

 

in the end, it’s up to each individual to decide how they will respond to the new tax law.

i think in a few years (not months), we will all have a clearer picture about the "enforcment" of the law ...

Edited August 25, 20241 yr by motdaeng

yes ....  they will tax you everyday your here.

 

every time you go to 7-11 to buy something, you will pay VAT 7% the total purchase.  

5 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Nope, there's no evidence other than the logic of it all. Any move to tax non-Thai's is a huge step change that can't be only partially done. The only way to ensure full compliance is via the visa process and Immigration. If it makes you happier I can agree to to a word other than probable, not that it changes much that's meaningful.

Your western logic is irrelevant in Thailand.

I agree that the only way tax could be strictly enforced onto foreigners is through Immigration... but then what about locals?

What would makes me happier is that I could distinguish facts from opinions when reading you because it gets confusing at times, and yes words have sense.

13 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Your western logic is irrelevant in Thailand.

I agree that the only way tax could be strictly enforced onto foreigners is through Immigration... but then what about locals?

What would makes me happier is that I could distinguish facts from opinions when reading you because it gets confusing at times, and yes words have sense.

Does this discussion really care about locals, their tax system has been in place for decades and they deal with it, in their own way. It's foreigners that are the new kids on the block.

 

I didn't understand what reference you were using when you wrote vis vie fact and opinion. If you have concerns on that score, please feel free to ask me to clarify, any time.

6 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Does this discussion really care about locals, their tax system has been in place for decades and they deal with it, in their own way. It's foreigners that are the new kids on the block.

As you mentioned earlier Tax rules apply the same way onto locals and foreigners.

Hence, there can't be two sets of tax enforcement. That would be blatant discrimination leading, in my opinion, to foreign exodus.

So, some bored members have wasted 3 pages of comments predicting Thai Logic.  Why? Those who that have been consistently successful are not Known by Name.

 

What is Known is Revenue Department follows info and orders available on the website.  They have a number and date like order 161 2023 or order 162 2023. This is helpful, useful, verifiable info to share.

 

The Double Tax Treaty is usually in digital PDF Form.

There are Page Numbers for documents which are sometimes  different than the PDF page number so provide Both.  The section and paragraph and "Quote the Tax Agreement", then your supporting interpretation.

 

STOP, WASTING the limit time we have left posting info, comments, beliefs that have little value and are Not helpful to many others.

 

DEBATE Out of the comments section, DIRECTLY with someone you want to discuss your  opinions or beliefs that have No BENEFIT to others who read to be educated, informed, prepared and seek guidance and help.

Just now, Yumthai said:

As you mentioned earlier Tax rules apply the same way onto locals and foreigners.

Hence, there can't be two sets of tax enforcement. That would be blatant discrimination leading, in my opinion, to foreign exodus.

Yes indeed, but the foreigners don't understand how it all works, the locals do. Plus foreigners are at a disadvantage because of language, culture, expectations and reputation as ATM's.