Wife transfers from dependent visa to Retirement Visa in case I pass away before her.

[Liquorice]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Yes, she said that, obviously, because her advice and your actions would be illegal, something in which she does not want to be complicit!

Not illegal at all if your spouse is entitled to your assets by law.
It may be immoral, but it's not illegal.

[Liquorice]

52 minutes ago, LivingNThailand said:

Actually, this post started as a question about immigration procedures and policies and ended up talking all about the money.   Any other ideas about immigration?   Or is it a mixed bag depending on the mood of the immigration office the day you show up? 

There is no written policy or procedure in your situation.
If you decease, then your wife's permission of stay ends, as it was based on you meeting the criteria.
Whether Immigration would honour any remaining permission of stay (as they do when a Thai wife passes) would in my opinion be purely at their discretion. They could give her 7 days to leave the Country.

 

Alternatively, if she is in the process of obtaining a court order to release your assets to her (easy if you have a Will in place) then an acting lawyer should be able to issue her a letter for Immigration to obtain a 90-day extension under section 2.26 of Immigration order 327/2557.

 

Sorry, it brings us back to the financial aspect, which is just as much a part of the process for your wife to apply for an extension of stay based on retirement in her own right.

[Liquorice]

@LivingNThailand

 

I assume you keep that 800K locked in an account throughout the year for Immigration purposes.
I also assume you transfer other funds to cover monthly expenditure.

 

If you can afford to make a monthly overseas transfer of 65K per month to your wife's Thai bank account in her sole name, then after 12 x monthly transfers she qualifies for an extension based on retirement independent of you.

[Tropicalevo]

On 9/16/2024 at 12:36 PM, LivingNThailand said:

Yeah, she's fast.  😂  Does all the online banking stuff.  I don't think there is a problem.  Actually told yet another older retired couple in our neighborhood to open an account in the wife's name because you have to transfer "fast".  The wife said it sounded so mean.    Mean, Schmean.   800,000 THB is nothing to sneeze at.  Thanks for the advice.  will look into that co-sign things 

 

 

If your wife does all of the online banking, just give her your password details and your phone.

She can then transfer all of the money from your account to hers.

This is what I did when my wife died.

I used to do all of the online banking and so I had access to her bank account.

All of our 'joint' money was there (she earned more than I did). My account was for running the business.

When my wife died, I just transferred everything to my account. No one automatically tells the bank when an account holder dies.

I asked my lawyer if this was a problem and the response was - 'no - everyone does it.'

[LivingNThailand]

1 hour ago, Liquorice said:

If you can afford to make a monthly overseas transfer of 65K per month to your wife's Thai bank account in her sole name, then after 12 x monthly transfers she qualifies for an extension based on retirement independent of you.

Well heck, that would be easy to do.  Originally we had our social security money sent through Bangkok Bank's NY office and sent to our BKK joint account every month.  About 4 months ago the bank changed the account to direct deposit and froze the account due to Social Security mandates on foreign accounts.   So now we have the money sent to our US Bank and wire it to our joint account  in a lump sum which is more that 65,000 (the bank unfroze the account when we changed the system).     All we would have to do is change the wire instructions to my wife's account.  I would mean some paperwork and probably a phone call to confirm.  (I hope this isn't confusing)

 

So you are saying if there is a deposit of 65,000 or more per month into a single account from a US Bank that is considered income method.    What about this Thai tax thing I have been reading about?

Now I know what Dr. Jack was talking about.

 

I will definitely look into this option soon.

 

Not planning on going soon, but neither did my neighbor and he is now in the hospital......

 

 

 

 

Edited September 17 by LivingNThailand

[LivingNThailand]

36 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

When my wife died, I just transferred everything to my account. No one automatically tells the bank when an account holder dies.

I asked my lawyer if this was a problem and the response was - 'no - everyone does it.'

That's what I thought.  Probably not 100% perfectly legal, but I think the worse thing that could happen is that there would be a 'tax" if found out.  Anyway, I think she will be okay.  Just trying to dot the i's and cross the t's.   Thanks everyone.

[Liquorice]

2 hours ago, LivingNThailand said:

Well heck, that would be easy to do.  Originally we had our social security money sent through Bangkok Bank's NY office and sent to our BKK joint account every month.  About 4 months ago the bank changed the account to direct deposit and froze the account due to Social Security mandates on foreign accounts.   So now we have the money sent to our US Bank and wire it to our joint account  in a lump sum which is more that 65,000 (the bank unfroze the account when we changed the system).     All we would have to do is change the wire instructions to my wife's account.  I would mean some paperwork and probably a phone call to confirm.  (I hope this isn't confusing)

No idea what charges you incur for a direct wire transfer, but you should compare those charges against using 'Wise', which the majority of expats use for transfers.
Transparent site, low cost fees and good exchange rates.

 

2 hours ago, LivingNThailand said:

So you are saying if there is a deposit of 65,000 or more per month into a single account from a US Bank that is considered income method.    What about this Thai tax thing I have been reading about?

Yes. Transfer 65K per month to a Thai bank account in your wife's sole name, and after 12 transfers (one year) she qualifies for an extension of stay based on retirement (50+) in her own right, not as a dependant of you. The 65K per month can be immediately withdrawn and used for expenses.

Ignore the tax thing!

Edited September 17 by Liquorice

[LivingNThailand]

2 hours ago, Liquorice said:

No idea what charges you incur for a direct wire transfer, but you should compare those charges against using 'Wise', which the majority of expats use for transfers.
Transparent site, low cost fees and good exchange rates.

wire charges are not alot.  My bank is good and reimburses the ATM fees if I use that option.    I signed up for wise, but feel more comfortable using my bank.  Charges are almost the same as using BKK bank NY.  No no big deal.  But thanks.  

Edited September 17 by LivingNThailand

[LivingNThailand]

2 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Yes. Transfer 65K per month to a Thai bank account in your wife's sole name, and after 12 transfers (one year) she qualifies for an extension of stay based on retirement (50+) in her own right, not as a dependant of you. The 65K per month can be immediately withdrawn and used for expenses.

Ignore the tax thing!

Awesome.  Will look into that soon.   I wasn't worried about the tax thing.  Just like TAT collecting the 300 THB for tourists...  hahaha  🤣  I guess I've been here too long to sweat that stuff.  Thanks for the advice.  

[DrJack54]

8 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Not illegal at all if your spouse is entitled to your assets by law.
It may be immoral, but it's not illegal.

Disagree. There is a process. 

For example farang passes and family in "home country" has Will that includes assets in Thailand.

 

Emptying bank account etc in Thailand would be illegal 

It's even illegal without Will.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Liquorice]

3 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Disagree. There is a process. 

For example farang passes and family in "home country" has Will that includes asset in Thailand.

Firstly, you should always have separate Wills for assets in Thailand and in your home Country and each should reference the other,

Your legal spouse will always be regarded as the beneficiary in the event of your demise, and a Will can either confirm or change that.

 

3 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Emptying bank account etc in Thailand would be illegal 

It's even illegal without Will.

Not in the case of Thai spouse, who under Thai ascension law is the automatic beneficiary, unless a Will states otherwise.
This as others have confirmed is why Thai banks advise you to withdraw any funds (if you have access) before advising the bank of the death.
There are no repercussions in the case of the Thai spouse making those withdrawals, even without a Will, as she is legally entitled to it.

 

I've helped Thai spouses and a Thai carer through this process 4 times in the last two years.

[bigt3116]

5 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Your legal spouse will always be regarded as the beneficiary in the event of your demise,

 

"The surviving spouse is a statutory heir but their entitlement depends on what other class of statutory heir exists. If there are surviving children of the deceased, the spouse and children take the estate between them. Therefore, if there are three children, then the estate is divided in to four equal shares."

 

This would seem to disagree with you, and every law firm page I visited says the same. So if there were children and the wife emptied the account, she would in effect be stealing from legal heirs?

[Liquorice]

4 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

 

"The surviving spouse is a statutory heir but their entitlement depends on what other class of statutory heir exists. If there are surviving children of the deceased, the spouse and children take the estate between them. Therefore, if there are three children, then the estate is divided in to four equal shares."

 

This would seem to disagree with you, and every law firm page I visited says the same. So if there were children and the wife emptied the account, she would in effect be stealing from legal heirs?

I don't disagree with that, but that's the course of inheritance when no Will is in place and your legal spouse will always remain a statutory heir.
It's why I always advocate to make a Will in Thailand regarding any Thai assets, and one in your home Country regarding any assets there.

 

Edited September 18 by Liquorice

[CMBob]

On 9/18/2024 at 1:49 AM, Liquorice said:

 ....Not in the case of Thai spouse, who under Thai ascension law is the automatic beneficiary, unless a Will states otherwise.
 

....I've helped Thai spouses and a Thai carer through this process 4 times in the last two years.

I have no doubt that you've helped others through the process.....good on you.

However, where you get the notion that under Thai law that one's spouse is the "automatic beneficiary unless the Will states otherwise" is beyond me.  I invite you to read the intestate law contained with the Thai Civil and Commercial Code.  AsBigt3116 says, the wife or spouse is a statutory heir...but not the only one! For example only, under intestate succession:

(1) If Decedent left a spouse and children, the spouse gets half and the children get half,

(2) If Decedent left no kids but a spouse and parents, the spouse gets half and the parents get half,

(3) If Decedent left no kids and no parents but full-blood siblings, the spouse gets half and the siblings get half, 

etc.

Bottom-line, of course, is that anybody having assets within Thailand should have a Thai Will so you get to pick who gets your money and stuff.  

Also, technically it would be illegal for a surviving spouse to raid a bank account in his/her spouse's name.....although, if the surviving spouse is the sole beneficiary under a Will or under intestate succession laws, it happens and is considered "no harm, no foul" (nobody is likely ever to raise the issue other than a weird circumstance where some relative jumps out of the woodwork and asserts that the Will was a product of coercion or duress or where there is no Will and the intestate law says they get a share).