BYD Sealion 6 DM-i - is it worth buying it to replace an ICE car?

[4myr]

I am considering buying the BYD Sealion 6 PHEV to replace my 8 yr old Mazda 3. This car is also known as Song Plus [China] or Seal U DM-i [Europe].

Would like to hear your own experience or additional knowledge you gained from other sources to improve my decision making.

 

Reasons to consider the BYD is the 80km [considering to keep 25% SoC for HEV fuel efficiency] pure EV range for daily/weekly city trip.

I have excess solar power and can charge at home with a portable charger, as my daily commute is less than 50 km.

 

For longer weekend/vacation trips I will not have range or charging station anxiety, having a 60L fuel tank and around 25km/L fuel efficiency as long as I drive below 110 km/hr and keep the battery charged above 25%.

My yearly mileage is around 7-10,000 km.

 

The price vs value is the biggest attraction. The 2-wheel drive model Dynamic is sold for 939,900 Thai baht.
Other Chinese manufacturers e.g. MG have lowered their PHEV prices accordingly, however the value proposition of BYD is better.  

 

I am intending to keep the BYD as long as I can, for at least 5-6 years.

 

What are the unknowns right now for me:

• maintenance costs.
  I read on a Australian site cost of around 200 USD / year over the first 5 years. The ATTO 3 BEV maintainance package of Rever of 8 years is worth 120 USD per year. I assume maintenance for a PHEV is more expensive than a BEV. Next month I'll hear from BYD.
• insurance costs.
  I read that EV insurance in Thailand is twice as expensive compared to ICE cars
• how many years software and security updates are warrantied?
  BYD has many models/variations worldwide to keep up to date. Will BYD behave like Samsung for smartphones or more like Apple in terms of software updates? Will the car management firmware still work after 8 years, except that [security] bugs will not be solved. 
• after 8 years or 160,000 km battery warranty of 70% battery health, the car will have lower pure EV range. I assume it should keep it's fuel efficiency as a hybrid, as long as the SoC is above 25%? So the PHEV becomes more or less a HEV, after gradual deterioration of the battery.
• the resale value/depreciation after 5-6 years.
  I'd guess nobody can answer this, except within China. As the Song Plus is already in the market for several years. The DM-i hybrid technology is on it's 4th iteration, and the 5th iteration has recently been launched in China regaining it's ICE power efficiency crown of 46% from Geely  [Seal 7 DM-i]

 

Things in the news or online reviews that have bothered me:

• on durability: e.g. mold found in the interiors of stored cars in Europe, exterior paint peeling off. Are these issues included in the car warranty?
• on suspension level: too soft I read.
  I will need to adapt from the sporty and direct steering nature of the Mazda. I also read reviews that after changing tires and suspension the BYD's suspension behaves better. I also read of motion sickness of some passengers in the back due to the soft suspension. Fortunately in Thailand the max legal speed is 90 km/h and 120 km/h on toll roads. I will need to test drive this on the highway to find out myself.

Edited September 23 by 4myr

[motdaeng]

i'm sorry, but i can't answer your questions because i don't own a phev nor a byd. hopefully, other forum members can offer more help.

 

that said, i'd like to share why a fully electric vehicle (bev) is the choice for me personally:

• with a phev, you get both the pros and cons of electric and combustion engines. this includes maintenance costs, fuel and electricity expenses, driving comfort, noise, vibrations, and emissions.
• the 18 kWh battery in the byd sealion 6 is put under considerable stress, especially at high and low battery levels. frequent charging cycles can also lead to faster degradation.
• the higher engine power in the byd sealion 6 comes from the electric motor, offering 145 kW of power, while the 1.5-liter combustion engine provides just 72 kW. when full power is required, the (cold) ice engine has to "spring in", may creating noticeable noise and vibrations.
• to be efficient and perform well on long trips, a phev needs to be charged regularly, the same as a bev.

 

i drive about 400 km on day trips each month, and i take two longer road trips a year (lasting 2 to 6 weeks) covering 2,000 to 4,000 km. typically, i (we need to ) take a 30-minute break every two hours, which gives me plenty of time to charge the battery, and i'm also never in rush on long journeys ...

 

for some, a phev might be a better fit than a bev. however, i'm not sure all phev buyers fully consider also the potential drawbacks ...

[JBChiangRai]

BYD have a good reputation, I doubt they got anything wrong on the car.

 

I like that they have the most power on the electric motor.  I had a PHEV Mercedes in 2018 where most of the power was on the ICE and the electric only range was about 20km.  I could just about get away with a trip to a restaurant, picking up a couple of friends and the return journey, but I was frequently using the ICE.

 

The BYD will have excellent performance on the electric motor, once the battery is exhausted, say on a long journey, your performance will drop.  There is probably an option to use the petrol engine to charge the battery (there was on the Mercedes), I never did because I considered it inefficient.= to use petrol to charge the battery.

 

So if your usage pattern is mostly journeys of under the electric only range with the occasional long distance trip, then I think it is perfect for you.

 

And if you are anything like me, a PHEV will give you the confidence to go fully BEV next time.

Edited September 24 by JBChiangRai

[ronster]

Looked at several video reviews of the sealion 6 and all said was a great car with the suspension just being a little soft on some conditions , but easy to replace. Said interior materials were good quality as was driving comfort and range etc 

Also seen a review of sealion 7 and it's even better seemingly and has a bit of a X1/ urus type shape to it .

Will be changing car in the next year and will definitely be checking out these options . Also the reviews said the mid range model of the 6 was the best option out of the three models available. 

[outsidetrader]

Yrs fir sure if its BYD then you are on a winner ;)

[newnative]

     My Thai spouse and I have booked a new Sealion, scheduled for delivery sometime in October.  He drives, I don't in Thailand.   We took a test drive and he was impressed with how it drove.  I liked the ride comfort, the seat comfort, and the excellent seating position and view out the front.  The back seats were also comfortable and there was a lot of leg room for the Thai family members we sometimes have in the car.  The ride seemed fine to us but I would suggest taking a test drive to see how you like how it drives.

    We both liked the beautiful exterior styling and the very well-equipped and nice-looking interior, including the interior color combination--it was nice to see an interior that was not all black, as we have had with so many cars and are bored with.  

    We decided we wanted PHEV because we wanted to move into electric but we felt we were not ready for all-electric yet.  We think that with most of our driving around town we will be able to just use the electric mode and save on buying gas.  Probably 75% of our driving is around town

      When we travel, about once a month, we won't have range anxiety and we can fill up quickly at a gas station and not have to wait around for the the electric mode to recharge--although we do have the option to recharge if we stop somewhere that has an electric charger free and we are going to be having lunch and won't mind the wait.   

      We have a new house and we had an electric charger built in the carport as part of the build, so we can easily charge the car at night.  I'm not sure we would have selected PHEV if we still lived in a condo project--and certainly not if there wasn't charging available on-site.  

     We currently own a 2018 Honda CR-V.  It has been a terrific car and we would have liked to buy another one but, frankly, the 'new' model looked very dated--especially side-by-side with the new Chinese models we looked at.  I have posted before that it looks like it should have been the 2020 or 2021 model, with little new that we could see except a refreshed front and back.  The 2024 model should have been a really new blank page design.  

     Another big minus for the CR-V was the price--over 1.7MB for the model we were interested in.  As you have noted, the Sealion, about the same size as the CR-V and better equipped, is less than 1MB.  We could not see what made the Honda cost 700,000 baht more--enough to buy a second BYD like the Dolphin. 

   We will likely buy the upper model Sealion but even that model is only 1,039,000 baht; tremendous value, we feel, for a very nice car.  We thought it looked as nice, or nicer, than some car models we looked at costing 2MB or more.   We are getting 600,000 baht for our Honda trade so our outlay for the new car is 439,000 baht.  One of our concerns is buying a Chinese auto for the first time and how good service will be.  We'll see.

    We realize that resale will likely be much lower than with a Japanese model but, hey, we have already saved about 700,000 baht.  We like that BYD has a Pattaya dealership.  We know we are taking a bit of a gamble with the Sealion vs. buying another CR-V but we added up all the pros and cons and the Sealion won--for us.   Good luck with your car search and your decision.

    

[4myr]

On 9/24/2024 at 8:25 AM, motdaeng said:

i'm sorry, but i can't answer your questions because i don't own a phev nor a byd. hopefully, other forum members can offer more help.

 

that said, i'd like to share why a fully electric vehicle (bev) is the choice for me personally:

• with a phev, you get both the pros and cons of electric and combustion engines. this includes maintenance costs, fuel and electricity expenses, driving comfort, noise, vibrations, and emissions.
• the 18 kWh battery in the byd sealion 6 is put under considerable stress, especially at high and low battery levels. frequent charging cycles can also lead to faster degradation.
• the higher engine power in the byd sealion 6 comes from the electric motor, offering 145 kW of power, while the 1.5-liter combustion engine provides just 72 kW. when full power is required, the (cold) ice engine has to "spring in", may creating noticeable noise and vibrations.
• to be efficient and perform well on long trips, a phev needs to be charged regularly, the same as a bev.

 

i drive about 400 km on day trips each month, and i take two longer road trips a year (lasting 2 to 6 weeks) covering 2,000 to 4,000 km. typically, i (we need to ) take a 30-minute break every two hours, which gives me plenty of time to charge the battery, and i'm also never in rush on long journeys ...

 

for some, a phev might be a better fit than a bev. however, i'm not sure all phev buyers fully consider also the potential drawbacks ...

i agree with you on only maintenance costs, that for phev  it’s higher than bev and ice.

 

i owned for 5 years one of the first phev’s - the chevy volt subsidized by obama i. the ice engine can work as range extender and in parallel. most of my commute i use ev mode and i charge 2 times a day. after 5 years battery health was 88%. btw the maintenance costs of my volt was lower than my previous ice car and this is due to the quality of the car. 
 

 only complaint i had is the noise when soc battery is low and the ice must do the heavy lifting on its own. that’s why byd like to keep the soc 20-30% so you can drive quietly in hev mode and the ice engine works primarily to charge the battery. byd seems to do a great job in canceling the ice noise in range extender mode. if you drive faster than 110 the ice charger cannot keep up with the battery drain, so then the ice needs to do the job on its own in the end.

 

with a bev you don’t have these speed limitations, on the other hand the legal max speed is 90km on most roads here in thailand.

 

i prefer speed limitations over bev limitations and frustrations. with regards to 30-45 min dc charging vs 10 min fueling,  where you have to plan your trips on the availability of 125kw dc chargers. suppose you wanna tour around for several weeks on koh lanta or koh samui where no dc charger is to be found. how about the charger app low response times during rush hours in the weekends and downtime of some remote chargers due to mediocre maintenance

[4myr]

On 9/25/2024 at 8:49 AM, newnative said:

     My Thai spouse and I have booked a new Sealion, scheduled for delivery sometime in October.  He drives, I don't in Thailand.   We took a test drive and he was impressed with how it drove.  I liked the ride comfort, the seat comfort, and the excellent seating position and view out the front.  The back seats were also comfortable and there was a lot of leg room for the Thai family members we sometimes have in the car.  The ride seemed fine to us but I would suggest taking a test drive to see how you like how it drives.

    

thanks for sharing. yes i will plan a test drive.

 

the car is much bigger than my mazda, however the boot space is a tiny bit larger. i entered a demo car that had a long trip on a very hot day. i sat in the back and i could feel the heat permeating through the cover of the glass roof. the back ac outlets could not cool my head, only the front middle ac outlets. i had to increase the ac volume to feel the ac working

 

[JBChiangRai]

Glass roofs on the move are cooled by airflow over the roof and are not a problem.

 

They are a problem when parked in the sun, they get hot and radiate a lot of heat onto your head.

 

i sat in the back of a Seal test drive and had the same issue, I’ve not noticed it in 9 months of ownership but I rarely park in the sun and if I do I remotely start the air con before returning to the vehicle.

[motdaeng]

9 hours ago, 4myr said:

i agree with you on only maintenance costs, that for phev  it’s higher than bev and ice.

 

i owned for 5 years one of the first phev’s - the chevy volt subsidized by obama i. the ice engine can work as range extender and in parallel. most of my commute i use ev mode and i charge 2 times a day. after 5 years battery health was 88%. btw the maintenance costs of my volt was lower than my previous ice car and this is due to the quality of the car. 
 

 only complaint i had is the noise when soc battery is low and the ice must do the heavy lifting on its own. that’s why byd like to keep the soc 20-30% so you can drive quietly in hev mode and the ice engine works primarily to charge the battery. byd seems to do a great job in canceling the ice noise in range extender mode. if you drive faster than 110 the ice charger cannot keep up with the battery drain, so then the ice needs to do the job on its own in the end.

 

with a bev you don’t have these speed limitations, on the other hand the legal max speed is 90km on most roads here in thailand.

 

i prefer speed limitations over bev limitations and frustrations. with regards to 30-45 min dc charging vs 10 min fueling,  where you have to plan your trips on the availability of 125kw dc chargers. suppose you wanna tour around for several weeks on koh lanta or koh samui where no dc charger is to be found. how about the charger app low response times during rush hours in the weekends and downtime of some remote chargers due to mediocre maintenance

 

@4myr, thank you for the detailed response. it’s appreciated to get first-hand experiences from ev owners ...

[harryviking]

With the occasional "madness" on Thai highways, I would not even dare having an EV. They are also falling sharply in popularity!

[JBChiangRai]

12 minutes ago, harryviking said:

With the occasional "madness" on Thai highways, I would not even dare having an EV. They are also falling sharply in popularity!

Are they? 
 

From 5% to 15% market share in Thailand during last 7 months.

 

Now 94% market share in Norway 

 

USA Q2 up massively on Q1

 

UK now considerably over the target of 22% market share.

Edited September 28 by JBChiangRai

[motdaeng]

41 minutes ago, harryviking said:

With the occasional "madness" on Thai highways, I would not even dare having an EV. They are also falling sharply in popularity!

 

are you living in a different version of thailand, or are you just completely out of touch?

[DUNROAMIN]

On 9/24/2024 at 9:08 AM, JBChiangRai said:

BYD have a good reputation, I doubt they got anything wrong on the car.

 

I like that they have the most power on the electric motor.  I had a PHEV Mercedes in 2018 where most of the power was on the ICE and the electric only range was about 20km.  I could just about get away with a trip to a restaurant, picking up a couple of friends and the return journey, but I was frequently using the ICE.

 

The BYD will have excellent performance on the electric motor, once the battery is exhausted, say on a long journey, your performance will drop.  There is probably an option to use the petrol engine to charge the battery (there was on the Mercedes), I never did because I considered it inefficient.= to use petrol to charge the battery.

 

So if your usage pattern is mostly journeys of under the electric only range with the occasional long distance trip, then I think it is perfect for you.

 

And if you are anything like me, a PHEV will give you the confidence to go fully BEV next time.

BYD have a good reputation, really, and do tell how you arrived at that conclusion.

[JBChiangRai]

6 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

BYD have a good reputation, really, and do tell how you arrived at that conclusion.

Ask any BYD owner.  Especially Thai as they are incredibly reputation oriented.

 

or you could read this https://en.byd.com/news/byd-ranked-chinas-most-admired-automotive-brand-by-fortune-magazine/#:~:text=BYD came in ranked overall,year's ranking of 15th.

 

Or perhaps you could tell me why you think otherwise? What is the data set that has brought you to that conclusion?

 

 

 

[Snackbar]

Can’t give them away as fast as they’re made

[JBChiangRai]

2 hours ago, Snackbar said:

Can’t give them away as fast as they’re made

That’s why I had to wait two months for mine after ordering it

[DUNROAMIN]

On 9/28/2024 at 3:06 PM, JBChiangRai said:

Ask any BYD owner.  Especially Thai as they are incredibly reputation oriented.

 

or you could read this https://en.byd.com/news/byd-ranked-chinas-most-admired-automotive-brand-by-fortune-magazine/#:~:text=BYD came in ranked overall,year's ranking of 15th.

 

Or perhaps you could tell me why you think otherwise? What is the data set that has brought you to that conclusion?

 

 

 

Fortune magazine, wow, most admired, ranked 15th, I better rush out and buy one before there all gone. Maybe read some real reports from auto mags around the world.

[stupidfarang]

Resale value? I do think they are a very good car, yet two things stand out. First is the price keeps on dropping with the price war amoung the EV car companies in Thailand, the second is the resale value, I read in the past week that in Europe the resale value has dropped big time. Sorry cannot remember where I read it but google will find it for you.

[newnative]

3 hours ago, stupidfarang said:

Resale value? I do think they are a very good car, yet two things stand out. First is the price keeps on dropping with the price war amoung the EV car companies in Thailand, the second is the resale value, I read in the past week that in Europe the resale value has dropped big time. Sorry cannot remember where I read it but google will find it for you.

         As I said in an earlier post, my spouse and I have a Sealion on order, which is about the same size as our current CR-V.  We will likely buy the top model, costing 1,039,000 baht.  BYD is giving us 600,000 baht for our 2018 Honda CR-V.  The car cost us 1.5MB new so driving it for 6 years has cost us 900,000 baht in depreciation. 

        If we also drive the Sealion for 6 years and, worst case, it loses 100% of its value, it will have cost us 1,039,000 baht in depreciation.  Not much difference between 900,000 and 1,039,000 baht--and we might save the difference in reduced fuel costs.

        We know going in that depreciation with the Sealion will most likely be a good deal worse than if we bought another, more expensive, Honda CR-V.   But, I very much doubt that the Sealion will have zero value in 6 years.  We will have also saved from the get-go by spending 1.039MB for the Sealion vs. spending 1.7MB for the CR-V model we might have purchased if it looked newer and had a PHEV model.  

[idealistic123]

On 9/30/2024 at 8:14 AM, newnative said:

         As I said in an earlier post, my spouse and I have a Sealion on order, which is about the same size as our current CR-V.  We will likely buy the top model, costing 1,039,000 baht.  BYD is giving us 600,000 baht for our 2018 Honda CR-V.  The car cost us 1.5MB new so driving it for 6 years has cost us 900,000 baht in depreciation. 

        If we also drive the Sealion for 6 years and, worst case, it loses 100% of its value, it will have cost us 1,039,000 baht in depreciation.  Not much difference between 900,000 and 1,039,000 baht--and we might save the difference in reduced fuel costs.

        We know going in that depreciation with the Sealion will most likely be a good deal worse than if we bought another, more expensive, Honda CR-V.   But, I very much doubt that the Sealion will have zero value in 6 years.  We will have also saved from the get-go by spending 1.039MB for the Sealion vs. spending 1.7MB for the CR-V model we might have purchased if it looked newer and had a PHEV model.  

 

Any estimate when your car will be delivered? 

 

A few days ago I went to a showroom in Chonburi and the sales person said that the demand is huge for the Sealion 6 DM-i and new orders will hopefully be delivered at the end of the year with the possibility of having to wait until next year. 

Edited October 19 by idealistic123

[newnative]

3 hours ago, idealistic123 said:

 

Any estimate when your car will be delivered? 

 

A few days ago I went to a showroom in Chonburi and the sales person said that the demand is huge for the Sealion 6 DM-i and new orders will hopefully be delivered at the end of the year with the possibility of having to wait until next year. 

        We were told that we could have a model in black by the end of this month--apparently we were one of the early bookers in Pattaya--but we like the higher end model that comes in gray so we will likely wait for that model and color.  No word yet on when one of those will be available.  

[transam]

My friend's Thai family member bought a new BYD, it is laid up in a garage because they cannot figure out what's wrong with it.

Probably waiting for someone to be flown up from BKK to investigate....🤔

 

Though, in the same family, another bought a new  Toyota hybrid, Camry I think, always at Toyota's being sorted...

 

The funny thing is, the pair are continuously borrowing my chums old Toyota Vios...😂

[Captain Flack]

Some off topic troll posts and replies have been removed, for trying to deflect the topic into bickering.

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, transam said:

My friend's Thai family member bought a new BYD, it is laid up in a garage because they cannot figure out what's wrong with it.

Probably waiting for someone to be flown up from BKK to investigate....🤔

 

Though, in the same family, another bought a new  Toyota hybrid, Camry I think, always at Toyota's being sorted...

 

The funny thing is, the pair are continuously borrowing my chums old Toyota Vios...😂

It doesn’t start? What’s the SOC of the battery?

[vinny41]

Official price BYD Sealion 6 DM-i Plug-in Hybrid: 999,900 – 1,099,900 baht (assembled in Thailand) | Increased by 60,000!

*** Price increase of 60,000 baht, effective from 1 November 2024 onwards.

For customers who reserve BYD SEALION 6 DM-i from August 8, 2024 – October 31, 2024* and receive the car by December 31, 2024* will still get the original Early Bird price of Dynamic model 939,900 baht / Premium 1,039,900 baht.

https://autolifethailand.tv/official-price-nov24-byd-sealion6-thailand/?

[stratocaster]

You don't mention it but can you charge at home. The only question pertinent to owning any model of EV anywhere in the world is can you charge at home.

[UWEB]

3 hours ago, stratocaster said:

You don't mention it but can you charge at home. The only question pertinent to owning any model of EV anywhere in the world is can you charge at home.

Wondering if everybody has his own Petrol Station at home.

[Gweiloman]

15 hours ago, stratocaster said:

You don't mention it but can you charge at home. The only question pertinent to owning any model of EV anywhere in the world is can you charge at home.

Being able to charge at home is definitely beneficial and extremely convenient. However some advanced countries like Singapore and China have an excellent public charging infrastructure so much so that many EV owners who can’t charge at home manage quite easily.

[JBChiangRai]

16 hours ago, stratocaster said:

You don't mention it but can you charge at home. The only question pertinent to owning any model of EV anywhere in the world is can you charge at home.

 

I have a 76 year old lady friend who has an MG4 X-Power, she lives off grid and can't charge at home.  She doesn't find it onerous popping into PTT and fast-charging whilst she has a coffee in Amazon roughly once a week.

 

Whether you even need a charger at home depends on your lifestyle, but if you can charge at home it's far more convenient than wasting 5 hours a year filling up with dino juice.