Switching from Non-B to Marriage or Retirement Visa?

[Globenauta]

Hello,

 

I've been in Thailand for about a decade on a Non-B visa as an employee of a foreign company. I recently ended my employment and am planning to explore new job opportunities. In the meantime, I've been considering applying for either a marriage visa (as I'm married to a Thai citizen) or a retirement visa.

 

I've visited the local immigration office in Samut Prakan a couple of times, but the information I've received has been somewhat incomplete and unclear.

 

In your experience, what would be the best visa option in my situation?

[DrJack54]

You are changing what your extension is based on 

 

Good advice in first couple of posts in this thread 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1304886-non-b-to-non-o-retirement/

[Rob Browder]

3 hours ago, Globenauta said:

planning to explore new job opportunities

To work in Thailand, you would need a Non-B OR a Non-O based on marriage, not retirement.   If not planning to work here, the Non-O based on retirement is a much easier process.

 

If your employment has ended, I assume you provided Immigration with a letter from your company terminating your Non-B extension on the same date as your last day of work, and are now on a different permit-of-stay?

 

Edit:  Related - also consider extending your Thai-SS health insurance - paying monthly to keep it - only possible to do within a limited-time from your job's end-date, and with a Yellow-Book and pink Thai-ID card.

Edited October 2 by Rob Browder

[Globenauta]

Thanks a lot, DrJack!

 

I now understand that I need to change the reason for the extension, rather than applying for a new visa altogether.

 

It seems that I should be able to do this without leaving the country: my current extension would need to be canceled by my employer, and then I could apply for a new extension based on retirement (or marriage).

 

However, after reading the entire thread you linked, it seems the OP encountered issues with getting the extension approved in the end.

 

 

 

I’m also wondering whether it would be better to apply for an extension based on retirement or marriage. Since I’m planning to search for new job opportunities, would either option affect my ability to work in the future?

 

Lastly, if I do find new employment, could I switch back to a business extension, or would I need to apply for a new Non-B visa?

 

Thanks again!

 

 

 

 

[Globenauta]

2 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

To work in Thailand, you would need a Non-B OR a Non-O based on marriage, not retirement.   If not planning to work here, the Non-O based on retirement is a much easier process.

 

If your employment has ended, I assume you provided Immigration with a letter from your company terminating your Non-B extension on the same date as your last day of work, and are now on a different permit-of-stay?

 

Edit:  Related - also consider extending your Thai-SS health insurance - paying monthly to keep it - only possible to do within a limited-time from your job's end-date, and with a Yellow-Book and pink Thai-ID card.

 

 

Hello Rob,

 

Thank you very much for your response, and apologies for not replying earlier.

 

My employment has already been terminated, but my employer is holding off on canceling my WP for about another week. They've also mentioned that they could delay canceling the visa extension for about another month, though I’m not entirely clear on how that process works.

 

Based on the preliminary information I received from the immigration office, the Non-O based on retirement does seem like a much easier option. To apply for the one based on marriage, I would need, among other things, a marriage certificate (translated and legalized), which is quite a lengthy process (we married in Europe).

For this reason, I’m leaning towards applying for the retirement-based Non-O. My question is: if I switch to a Non-O based on retirement and later receive a job offer, would it be possible to then switch to a Non-O based on marriage to be eligible to work? Or would I need to apply for a completely new visa?

 

Regarding Thai Social Security, that's a good point. My company has been paying it, and I’m planning to continue. I visited the SSO, and they told me I have until the end of the year to make the payments. I’ve also started gathering the necessary documents to apply for the yellow book, which includes a birth certificate (quite a hassle to get).

 

Thank you again for your help!

[recom273]

14 hours ago, Globenauta said:

Thanks a lot, DrJack!

 

I now understand that I need to change the reason for the extension, rather than applying for a new visa altogether.

 

It seems that I should be able to do this without leaving the country: my current extension would need to be canceled by my employer, and then I could apply for a new extension based on retirement (or marriage).

 

However, after reading the entire thread you linked, it seems the OP encountered issues with getting the extension approved in the end.

 

 

 

I’m also wondering whether it would be better to apply for an extension based on retirement or marriage. Since I’m planning to search for new job opportunities, would either option affect my ability to work in the future?

 

Lastly, if I do find new employment, could I switch back to a business extension, or would I need to apply for a new Non-B visa?

 

Thanks again!

 

 

 

 

 
You can get a work permit on a non-o marriage, working on a retirement is prohibited. If you are on a marriage extension, there is no need to go back to a non-b. 

 

I always had a marriage visa (I had multiple entry at that time) and a work permit, I taught in a school and didn’t want to be beholding to a school who would remove my ability to stay here, if I left their employment. 

[parallelman]

30 +years ago I came to Thailand on a Non-B, firstly on Marriage system and then switched to Retirement later. Didn't change visa type and still have the same Non-B. Has the system changed?

[Globenauta]

1 hour ago, recom273 said:

 
You can get a work permit on a non-o marriage, working on a retirement is prohibited. If you are on a marriage extension, there is no need to go back to a non-b. 

 

I always had a marriage visa (I had multiple entry at that time) and a work permit, I taught in a school and didn’t want to be beholding to a school who would remove my ability to stay here, if I left their employment. 

 

 

Thank you, Recom,

 

So, if I understand correctly, I should apply for an extension of my current stay based on marriage, rather than applying for a completely new marriage visa. This can be done without leaving the country - or at least, that’s my understanding.

 

The challenge is timing. My company may cancel my current visa within a month or so, although they weren’t clear on the exact timeframe. That might not give me enough time to gather all the necessary documentation for the marriage extension.

 

I visited the Samut Prakan immigration office, and they provided me with the attached list (which I translated using Google). Since I was married in Europe, obtaining the marriage certificate here is quite a lengthy process.

 

I also understand that if I can't get the marriage extension while my current visa is still valid, I may need to leave the country, return on a temporary tourist visa, and then apply for a new marriage visa.

 

Does that sound accurate?

 

Thanks again for your reply!

 

[Globenauta]

I’ve been thinking, and now I’m wondering: due to my time constraints, would it be possible to first apply for an extension based on retirement (since it seems easier), and then switch to a marriage visa while on that extension?

 

Also, are there any agencies or consultants who can assist with this process and provide guidance?

 

Thanks again!

[Liquorice]

7 hours ago, Globenauta said:

I’ve been thinking, and now I’m wondering: due to my time constraints, would it be possible to first apply for an extension based on retirement (since it seems easier), and then switch to a marriage visa while on that extension?

 

This topic has arisen before.

Your current extension applications have been based on employment, now you want to change the reason to Thai spouse.

For this purpose, Immigration now insist you must obtain the Non O visa to apply for an extension for the purpose of retirement/Thai spouse.

 

Depart the Country on the last day of your current permission of stay and either apply for the Non O based on Thai spouse from a local Thai Embassy to re-enter Thailand, or enter VE and apply for the Non O based on Thai spouse at Immigration.
Some years ago, Immigration allowed changing the reason for your extension from employment to retirement/Thai spouse from a Non B, but that policy appears to have changed.

 

You should enquire at your own Immigration office regarding their policy on the subject for a definitive answer.

[bigt3116]

2 hours ago, Liquorice said:

For this purpose, Immigration now insist you must obtain the Non O visa to apply for an extension for the purpose of retirement/Thai spouse.

 

When did that change? People were still just changing their reason to stay last August, (per the link posted above).

[bigt3116]

2 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Some years ago, Immigration allowed changing the reason for your extension from employment to retirement/Thai spouse from a Non B, but that policy appears to have changed.

 

Any evidence, link or post to support this change?

[Liquorice]

5 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

 

When did that change? People were still just changing their reason to stay last August, (per the link posted above).

Around 2021 at my IO.
They started insisting on a Non O.

[Liquorice]

5 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

 

Any evidence, link or post to support this change?

Read this topic for the recent experience of an OP at CW.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1304886-non-b-to-non-o-retirement/page/2/#comment-19276839

 

[bigt3116]

17 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

Read this topic for the recent experience of an OP at CW.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1304886-non-b-to-non-o-retirement/page/2/#comment-19276839

 

 

OK, having just read the whole post, I can guess why the change was denied, (and it ain't because of a change in the rules).

 

The gent got his extension at Chamchuri (BOI), but tried to change it at CW, that is the most likely reason for his denial, not a change in the rules.

 

That's my take on it anyway.

Edited Friday at 02:48 AM by bigt3116

[Globenauta]

Hello everyone,

 

I was wondering if anyone could recommend specific agencies that handle marriage visas in the Samut Prakan or Bangkok area. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thank you!

[Globenauta]

All my visa extensions for the last 10 years (Non-B) have been handled at Chamchuri (BOI), though I actually reside in Samut Prakan.

 

My current extension, which expires at the end of this year, will likely be canceled soon due to my employment ending, and I’m now exploring my options.

 

From the helpful replies I’ve received so far, I’m getting mixed advice. Some suggest that I can apply for a new extension based on retirement or marriage, while others, like @Liquorice mentioned I may need to leave Thailand and apply for a new Non-O visa.

 

I’d like to understand where I can get the most reliable information on this process. Should I consult the immigration office, or would a visa agent be more reliable in this case?

 

Additionally, if I do go to immigration, should I visit Chamchuri, or go to Samut Prakan?

 

Any guidance, or even recommendations for reliable visa agents, would be much appreciated!

 

Thank you all in advance!

[Rob Browder]

On 10/2/2024 at 8:26 PM, Globenauta said:

My employment has already been terminated, but my employer is holding off on canceling my WP for about another week. They've also mentioned that they could delay canceling the visa extension for about another month, though I’m not entirely clear on how that process works.

They should cancel them both at the same time.  The Non-B is invalid after the work-permit is canceled.  Ask them to provide you with a letter stating your termination date, in advance, which you can present to immigration.

 

Others have answered the other questions - and not clear if they will allow you to switch w/o leaving the country - would have to ask.  I would ask them immediately after you cancel your permitted stay from the Non-B, while you still have some permitted-stay days remaining. 

 

An easy place to get a Non-O 90-day Visa is Savannakhet Laos - for retirement or marriage.  Keep in mind that whichever you choose, when you apply for your FIRST 1-year extension at immigration, it will need to be for the same reason as the Non-O.  Marriage-based is possible at Vientiane.  Both Savannakhet and Vientiane require booking an appointment in-advance through their online system.

 

Also, I hope your local Ampuhur does not "time you out" on the Yellow Book, until it is too late to get into Thai-Health.  Mine took months after supplying everything including witness statements, but others report getting it on the day of application.

 

Edited Sunday at 10:39 AM by Rob Browder

[Globenauta]

Hi Rob,

 

Thanks again for the detailed reply! Here are my considerations, and I would appreciate your opinion if you have any.

 

18 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

They should cancel them both at the same time.  The Non-B is invalid after the work-permit is canceled.  Ask them to provide you with a letter stating your termination date, in advance, which you can present to immigration.

 

The HR is giving me confusing feedback, possibly because the visa and work permit are managed through an agency. A few months ago, when I visited the Labour Dept., they mentioned that the visa doesn’t need to be canceled at the same time as the work permit, but I keep getting mixed feedback about this. I'll ask my HR again and see if I can clarify the situation

 

 

18 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

Others have answered the other questions - and not clear if they will allow you to switch w/o leaving the country - would have to ask.  I would ask them immediately after you cancel your permitted stay from the Non-B, while you still have some permitted-stay days remaining.

 

Yes, the main point is if I can get the Non-O without leaving the country or not. I already went to the IO twice, but the communication was difficult, partly because of the language barrier and partly because I didn’t know exactly what to ask. I’ll try to be clearer next time. Maybe getting help from a visa agency would be a good idea.

 

 

18 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

An easy place to get a Non-O 90-day Visa is Savannakhet Laos - for retirement or marriage.  Keep in mind that whichever you choose, when you apply for your FIRST 1-year extension at immigration, it will need to be for the same reason as the Non-O.  Marriage-based is possible at Vientiane.  Both Savannakhet and Vientiane require booking an appointment in-advance through their online system.

 

Thank you for the tips about Laos! I’ll keep that in mind if I need to leave the country. Regarding the Non-O, my understanding is that the first application is a two-step process: first, you get a 90-day visa, and then you apply for a 1-year extension. As you may have gathered, I was considering applying for the Non-O based on retirement first, since that would give me time to gather the relevant documents to apply for a marriage-based extension after the initial 90 days. From what you’ve said, I now understand that’s not possible, right?

 

18 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

Also, I hope your local Ampuhur does not "time you out" on the Yellow Book, until it is too late to get into Thai-Health.  Mine took months after supplying everything including witness statements, but others report getting it on the day of application.

 

From what I understood after my visit to the SSO and Amphur, I first need a birth certificate to get the Yellow Book. I’ve already made an appointment at my embassy to request the birth certificate, but it’s going to take some time.
Also, I have a minor issue with a name mismatch between the documents issued in my country and my passport, which for some reason doesn’t include my middle name. I’ve asked my embassy how I can resolve this and I’m waiting for their feedback.
Regarding the SSO, they told me that I have until the end of the year before being “timed out” from the SS system. I hope I can get everything sorted before that happens.

 

 

Thanks again for your continued help! 🙏

 

Edited yesterday at 05:18 AM by Globenauta

[Liquorice]

19 minutes ago, Globenauta said:

The HR is giving me confusing feedback, possibly because the visa and work permit are managed through an agency. A few months ago, when I visited the Labour Dept., they mentioned that the visa doesn’t need to be canceled at the same time as the work permit, but I keep getting mixed feedback about this. I'll ask my HR again and see if I can clarify the situation

Not sure Immigration would have the same view as the labour department.

Your current permission of stay is based on employment. Cancel the WP, and technically you can no longer work, which invalidates the permission of stay based on employment. Ideally, both should be cancelled together on the same future date.

 

23 minutes ago, Globenauta said:

Yes, the main point is if I can get the Non-O without leaving the country or not. I already went to the IO twice, but the communication was difficult, partly because of the language barrier and partly because I didn’t know exactly what to ask. I’ll try to be clearer next time. Maybe getting help from a visa agency would be a good idea.

In Country, the Non O is only available if you entered VE or a Tourist visa.

Your Non B is specific for business employment, not retirement or Thai spouse.

You need to change the reason for your extension from employment to Thai spouse. Simply ask your Immigration office if you can change the reason for your extension to Thai spouse from a Non B, or do you need to obtain a Non O visa first.

 

28 minutes ago, Globenauta said:

Thank you for the tips about Laos! I’ll keep that in mind if I need to leave the country. Regarding the Non-O, my understanding is that the first application is a two-step process: first, you get a 90-day visa, and then you apply for a 1-year extension. As you may have gathered, I was considering applying for the Non-O based on retirement first, since that would give me time to gather the relevant documents to apply for a marriage-based extension after the initial 90 days. From what you’ve said, I now understand that’s not possible, right?

To apply for the Non O at Savannahket based on Thai spouse, you will require proof of 400K THB funds in a Thai bank for 2 months (in your sole name) prior to the date of submitting the application. On entry to Thailand, you will be permitted to stay for 90 days.

To apply for the 1 year extension based on Thai spouse, proof of 400K THB funds in a Thai bank for 2 months (in your sole name) prior to the date of submitting the application.
You can apply for the 1 year extension within the last 30 days of the 90 days granted on entry.
That gives you 60 days to get your documents in order.

 

36 minutes ago, Globenauta said:

From what I understood after my visit to the SSO and Amphur, I first need a birth certificate to get the Yellow Book. I’ve already made an appointment at my embassy to request the birth certificate, but it’s going to take some time.

Usually Amphoes require a certified Embassy copy of your passport, translated into Thai, then legalised by the Consular section of the MFA.

If they are requesting an Embassy certified copy of your Birth certificate, then this will also require translating and legalising by the MFA.

 

Are you a UK national by any chance?

[Rob Browder]

10 hours ago, Globenauta said:

Thank you for the tips about Laos! I’ll keep that in mind if I need to leave the country. Regarding the Non-O, my understanding is that the first application is a two-step process: first, you get a 90-day visa, and then you apply for a 1-year extension. As you may have gathered, I was considering applying for the Non-O based on retirement first, since that would give me time to gather the relevant documents to apply for a marriage-based extension after the initial 90 days. From what you’ve said, I now understand that’s not possible, right?

If you get the Non-O from a Visa-Exempt or Tourist entry in Thailand, then you get the 90-day visa at immigration first, (2 visits for this, with an "under consideration" period between them), then you return again to apply for the 1 year extension.   

 

If they let you simply change the reason for your permitted stay from work (Non-B) to marriage or retirement (Non-O), then it's just one "step."   Whether they will do this (like they always did before) is not clear, and may depend on the office.

 

If they do not let you make this change in-country, then you will need to leave/return with a border-run.  In that case, I would personally just get the 90-day Non-O in Laos, vs doing that step in Thailand - but you could do it either way.  

 

Note that no funds are required for a 90-day Non-O based on marriage at Vientiane or Savannakhet - but, the 1-year Multiple-Entry version at Savannakhet does require showing 400K in a Thai bank for 2 months.  That ME-Visa gives you 90-day permitted-stay per-entry for the year, requiring border-bounces.

 

You may also extend your permitted stay on any new entry to Thailand by 60-days "to visit your wife" - regardless of whether a TR, VE, or Non-O entry.  In theory, you could do this from the cancellation date on your Non-B permitted-stay - but, I would ask this after you complete canceling your Non-B stay.  Your wife must attend immigration to get that 60-days.

 

10 hours ago, Globenauta said:

A few months ago, when I visited the Labour Dept., they mentioned that the visa doesn’t need to be canceled at the same time as the work permit, but I keep getting mixed feedback about this.

Canceling the visa-extension first would not make a problem at Immigration.  Canceling the Work-Permit first COULD create a problem with immigration, as your Non-B permitted-stay would become "Invalid" when the WP was canceled.  You could be charged "overstay" for every day after the work-permit cancellation that you remained in Thailand on a Non-B permitted-stay.

[Globenauta]

Hi @Liquorice,

 

Thanks a lot for the detailed reply! It’s very helpful, and I appreciate your time.

 

 

21 hours ago, Liquorice said:

You need to change the reason for your extension from employment to Thai spouse. Simply ask your Immigration office if you can change the reason for your extension to Thai spouse from a Non B, or do you need to obtain a Non O visa first.

 

Thanks, I will ask the SP immigration office during my next visit.

 

 

21 hours ago, Liquorice said:

 

To apply for the Non O at Savannahket based on Thai spouse, you will require proof of 400K THB funds in a Thai bank for 2 months (in your sole name) prior to the date of submitting the application. On entry to Thailand, you will be permitted to stay for 90 days.

To apply for the 1 year extension based on Thai spouse, proof of 400K THB funds in a Thai bank for 2 months (in your sole name) prior to the date of submitting the application.
You can apply for the 1 year extension within the last 30 days of the 90 days granted on entry.
That gives you 60 days to get your documents in order.

 

Luckily, the money requirement is not an issue. However, I’m still unclear about the advantages of applying for the Non-O from outside the country versus in-country. Would you say there’s any significant benefit to doing this in Savannakhet rather than here?

 

 

21 hours ago, Liquorice said:

 

Usually Amphoes require a certified Embassy copy of your passport, translated into Thai, then legalised by the Consular section of the MFA.

If they are requesting an Embassy certified copy of your Birth certificate, then this will also require translating and legalising by the MFA.

 

Are you a UK national by any chance?

 

The Amphur office gave me the attached document (translated via Google). It’s a list of required documents for the Yellow Book, which includes a birth certificate in addition to the passport. I’m in the process of obtaining the birth certificate through my embassy, but it looks like this may take some time.

 

Also, there’s a discrepancy between documents issued in my home country and my passport, which doesn’t include my middle name for some reason. I’m concerned this might cause issues with the Amphur office and Immigration. I’ve already reached out to my embassy for advice and am waiting on their feedback.

 

And no, I’m not from the UK. 😊

 

[Liquorice]

5 hours ago, Globenauta said:

Thanks, I will ask the SP immigration office during my next visit.

Please come back and advise the forum if they allow you to change the reason from employment to Thai spouse, or if they insist you obtain a Non O.

 

 

5 hours ago, Globenauta said:

Luckily, the money requirement is not an issue. However, I’m still unclear about the advantages of applying for the Non-O from outside the country versus in-country. Would you say there’s any significant benefit to doing this in Savannakhet rather than here?

 

It's really a case of personal preference and how convenient or inconvenient it is to your location and access to your local Immigration office.

1. Applying at Savannahket, you need to make an appointment, and stay 2/3 nights to obtain the Non O. On entry to Thailand you will be granted permission of stay for 90 days. The advantage you can then apply directly for the 1 year extension of stay, within the last 30 days of that 90 days.
You apply for the Non O as the spouse of a Thai national.
https://savannakhet.thaiembassy.org/th/publicservice/non-immigrant-visa-o-visiting-family-member-of-a-thai-nationality-a-sp?page=5d84a44c15e39c26b400453e&menu=5d84a44c15e39c26b4004569

 

2. Applying at Immigration is a two stage procedure, subject to initially entering VE or a Tourist visa. You must have at least 15 days permission of stay remaining from your entry to apply at Immigration (23 days ate certain offices). You submit the application, which will then be subject to approval, which can take 2-3 weeks. Once approved, you return for the Non O stamp and will be granted permission of stay for 90 days. Within the last 30 days of that 90 days, you can apply for the 1 year extension.

Procedure of applying for Non O at Immigration.

 

 

5 hours ago, Globenauta said:

The Amphur office gave me the attached document (translated via Google). It’s a list of required documents for the Yellow Book, which includes a birth certificate in addition to the passport. I’m in the process of obtaining the birth certificate through my embassy, but it looks like this may take some time.

 

The reason for the birth certificate is to establish the names of your parents who are also entered into the Yellow book, the same as Thais with a Blue book.
Original English birth certificates do not state the parents names, which is why I asked of if you were from the UK.

In my case, the senior official of the Amphoe was happy to just translate their names himself and add them to my Yellow book.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Liquorice

[Liquorice]

@Globenauta

 

The certified passport and birth certificate copies must then be translated into Thai by a reputable translator. Avoid ‘touts’ waiting outside the Embassy offering their services.

I can personally recommend;
Express Translation Services
866 Phloen Chit Road

Lumphini
Pathum Wan

Bangkok 10330

Tel: 084 656 2459

https://www.expresstranslationservice.co.th

 

Many agencies provide services to get the documents legalised on your behalf and once completed return them to a given address via EMS post.

This is an option you should discuss with the agency and agree a reasonable fee.

Express Translation Services offer such a fee at very reasonable rates.

Allow several days for the documents to be returned.

For legalisation of documents by the MFA, appointments are necessary.

The MFA have now opened several centres to have the above documents legalised.
1. 123 Chaeng Watthana Road, Lak Si District, Bangkok 10210

2. MBK CENTER Shopping Mall, 5th floor, Zone A, Phaya Thai Road, Wang Mai Subdistrict, Pathum Wan District, Bangkok

3. Central Pattaya Shopping Center, 4th Floor, No. 333/102, Village No. 9, Nongprue Subdistrict, Bang Lamung District, Chonburi Province 20260

4. 7th Cycle Birthday Anniversary International Convention and Exhibition Center, 1st floor, Rueng Phueng Building 2,
Muang District, Chiang Mai Province

5. Ubon Ratchathani Provincial Hall Building, 1st floor, back west side, Ubon Ratchathani Province

6. Temporary Passport Office, Songkhla, Laem Son On Road, Bo Yang Subdistrict, Mueang District, Songkhla Province 90000

7. Central Phuket Festival Shopping Mall, B Floor, Wichit Subdistrict, Mueang District, Phuket Province

 

Office locations, maps, contact numbers

https://consular.mfa.go.th/th/publicservice/สถานที่ให้บริการรับรองนิติกรณ์เอกสาร

 

You must book an appointment here https://qlegal.consular.go.th/customer/index choosing which office and download the barcode once accepted.

 

Take the original and translated legalised documents to the Amphoe.

I recommend you take good quality (preferable laser jet) photocopies of all your documents for future reference, before visiting your Amphoe.