On 10/5/2024 at 9:38 AM, Surasak said:

Two washing machines, both take coins. How do they go cashless??!!

 

Tokens, paid for by card/phone, eventually.

 

And really, what's to stop any coin operated machine currently being manufactured from being made with a contactless option from now on? I expect they're already a thing in some countries.

You'll never get a negative interest rate with cash. When cash is completely eliminated, you will be at the mercy of either the bank(s) or the central government in the case of CBDCs. When the government wants to increase the velocity of money, they'll force interest rates to be negative, which will strongly influence you to spend your money rather than save, for if you don't spend your money, it will gradually dwindle to nothingness. I'd rather have cash, or better yet, something with true intrinsic value, be it gold, silver, or some other tangible good with a long shelf life which is suitable for barter. Throughout history, people have used many things as money, such as animal pelts and tobacco, to cite a couple of examples. 

Edited October 8, 20241 yr by farangkinok

2 minutes ago, farangkinok said:

you will be at the mercy of either the bank(s) or the central government in the case of CBDCs.

 

It's quite alarming that people don't seem to understand  the very real and dangerous consequences  CBDC's  would/will have on their life in all aspects,  it means total control and monitoring the digital Panopticon of which there can be no escape.

They all agree "it's so easy" 

On 10/7/2024 at 6:40 PM, Hockeybik said:

Precisely what does your research tell you about Bitcoin? 

i did not state "bitcoin" i specifically stated "BTC"
for BTC.....
due to a restricted block size, with a maximum of ~500,000 on chain transactions a day and a fee market
it is incapable of becoming a globally accepted/used currency used by all.
there is no counter argument to this fact.

I'm not sure how secure phone banking and swiping is and I don't like the banks and others knowing exactly how and when I spend my money. I use cards when it suits me, but for what and when is my choice.

On another thought, I live on a budget, so if it's 7000bht a week I draw out 7000 and watch how it goes to make sure I don't run out. Swiping for everything even at markets and cafe's must make it very difficult to control.

On 10/5/2024 at 9:05 AM, ignis said:

No not the only one, friend in the Village much younger than me is only 60 has no idea, or his wife retired yesterday has a problem try to make it work, there Son 20's can but has a problem when trying to use my phone... 2 others in the Village that I know both in there 80's also have no idea

Likewise trying to pay bills with SCB, [scan bill] even taken phone into the Bank and they cannot make it work, Works on Bangkok Bank, but use SCB for everyday uses...  maybe is my phone ? but is Android 10

 

Maybe the phone ? don't use much as far to small cannot see - much easier on my 32" PC Monitor

 

Eyes need to be tested - with age many things change.  Get stronger glasses (maybe 2.00x to 2.5x).  Get settings changed to increase the default font size on the phone.  Upgrade Android on phone to the latest version.

On 10/5/2024 at 8:06 AM, dinsdale said:

No cash in pocket. Ok. Never mind I'll scan. DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!! My internet is down.

And how often is your internet service down?

On 10/5/2024 at 8:43 AM, Lacessit said:

I don't enjoy the inconvenience of some half-wit at the register who takes several minutes to work out how to pay with their phone.

That is rapidly becoming a commonly quoted urban myth!

 

"...some half-wit at the register..."

Some people (not I) might say that the real half-wit is the person who falsely claims with exaggeration that some people actually take "several minutes" to work out how to pay with their phone.  If these alleged incidences occur so frequently to be such an inconvenience how come there has never been a recording published of one of them taking place?    Perhaps you have some showing the many times that you have been inconvenienced in this manner that we could time?

9 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

And how often is your internet service down?

Rarely but that's not the point. It can and does happen and that can leave millions stranded with no way to pay and no way to be paid in a cashless society.

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That is rapidly becoming a commonly quoted urban myth!

 

"...some half-wit at the register..."

Some people (not I) might say that the real half-wit is the person who falsely claims with exaggeration that some people actually take "several minutes" to work out how to pay with their phone.  If these alleged incidences occur so frequently to be such an inconvenience how come there has never been a recording published of one of them taking place?    Perhaps you have some showing the many times that you have been inconvenienced in this manner that we could time?

I seem to see this "urban myth" sometimes when I'm at Lotus, Big C, 711 etc. Granted people who know what they are doing it's fine but not everyone does. As for video evidence are you suggesting everyone starts recording people at checkouts who are having problems and taking an inordinate time to work out paying using their phones and posting it?

On 10/5/2024 at 9:50 AM, Gsxrnz said:

I explain the concept of a programmable CBDC (Central Bank Digital Currency) to people and get a blank stare. Almost nobody understands the concept the WEF and many governments are about to force on us. Everyone thinks it's just a debit card or a phone app to make life easier.

 

A CBDC is the ultimate form of totalitarian control. Your programmable "money" will be far worse than prison scrip or WWII ration cards.

 

They won't need any type of physical or legislative force to control you.

 

The first thing they'll do is attach carbon credits to every purchase. You'll try to buy a steak or diesel - sorry, you've used up this month's allocation. Or try to buy an airline ticket - sorry you've already used up your credits, but they can be "banked", so in seven years you will have enough for that trip to Thailand.

 

They'll also make your credits appreciate or depreciate depending on fiscal need - sir, you're not spending enough and we need to boost consumption. We'll devalue your credits by 10% each month if you don't meet the spending requirements.

 

CBDC's and the 15 minute city. Welcome to dystopia. 

"The first thing they'll do is..." 

"They'll also make..."

Says who? 

7 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

20 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

And how often is your internet service down?

Rarely but that's not the point.

Exactly, I think that is the point.  How many times has that actually happened to you when you've been trying to buy something? 

21 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Exactly, I think that is the point.  How many times has that actually happened to you when you've been trying to buy something? 

Don't cherry pick my reply. 

 

31 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Rarely but that's not the point. It can and does happen and that can leave millions stranded with no way to pay and no way to be paid in a cashless society.

 

28 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That is rapidly becoming a commonly quoted urban myth!

 

"...some half-wit at the register..."

Some people (not I) might say that the real half-wit is the person who falsely claims with exaggeration that some people actually take "several minutes" to work out how to pay with their phone.  If these alleged incidences occur so frequently to be such an inconvenience how come there has never been a recording published of one of them taking place?    Perhaps you have some showing the many times that you have been inconvenienced in this manner that we could time?

If I was to take a video recording of each time I was held up at a register, I would probably get into trouble with the people I am filming for invasion of privacy.

 

IME it takes  no more than 30 seconds for anyone to make change when paying in cash.

 

I suppose it is too much to ask that you think before you post.

47 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

And how often is your internet service down?

My internet service regularly goes down at noon for about ten minutes, and sometimes late in the afternoon. Maybe it's a switch to another server.

13 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

And how often is your internet service down?

In Thailand, rarely.

In home- country,  it's usually down.

Oh, in many countries I go I am not allowed to use internet as a foreigner. 

Not everywhere is Liverpool.

 

10 minutes ago, Lorry said:

In Thailand, rarely.

In home- country,  it's usually down.

Oh, in many countries I go I am not allowed to use internet as a foreigner. 

Not everywhere is Liverpool.

 

Which countries bar foreigners from using the internet??

2 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Which countries bar foreigners from using the internet??

Many.

Not allowed to buy a SIM, not allowed to get a contract for SIM or home internet.  That's pretty normal.  Of course, you always find a workaround. But do you want to use these workarounds for banking. 

Public Wifi can usually be used by foreigners - but again,  for banking?

And you can always use your home country SIM and pay roaming fees, but have to mortgage your house first. 

 

I would think that Thailand is the exception where every foreigner can buy a SIM. But I may be wrong, I don't have statistics. 

 

5 hours ago, Lorry said:

Many.

Not allowed to buy a SIM, not allowed to get a contract for SIM or home internet.  That's pretty normal.  Of course, you always find a workaround. But do you want to use these workarounds for banking. 

Public Wifi can usually be used by foreigners - but again,  for banking?

And you can always use your home country SIM and pay roaming fees, but have to mortgage your house first. 

 

I would think that Thailand is the exception where every foreigner can buy a SIM. But I may be wrong, I don't have statistics. 

 

Ok, so no countries bar foreigners from using the internet.

3 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Ok, so no countries bar foreigners from using the internet.

Technically,  you are right (not sure about " no country"). 

 

Practically,  I am right. You cannot go to a country you are not familiar with and expect to pay using the internet.

We just had this problem on a business trip, just a couple of days. It was a PITA.

 

As usual on AN, this has degenerated into "I am right! Me, me, me!". Very useful.

Edited October 11, 20241 yr by Lorry

Search 'Are There Countries Without Internet Access '  > Yes look it up there is lots

 

Then you come to Internet Cafes, or rather the lack of them or Countries where there  banned

 

Last time I was visiting the USA, None there,  also at that time there was over 83%  of the USA with no  internet access..

I had to drive a long way to a Library to use the internet + in the daytime when they were open !. 

 

 

So I went to buy a coffee at a cafe in Bangkok but they didn't accept cash or payment by credit card. Only by some "app" you can download to your mobile phone that would scan their payment QR code. I left decaffeinated!

 

I attach an image of what is printed on every Thai bank note "ธนบัตรเป็นเงินที่ชำระหนี้ตามกฏหมาย" (Banknotes are legal tender).

 

So my understanding is that legally, cash must be accepted for payment for any good or service. By going cashless are businesses breaking the law?

 

I suppose they could argue that they hadn't yet served my coffee so I was not yet in debt to them. They just refused to serve me, period.

 

Having cash on you means you are in control. If digital, the banks are ultimately in control of "your" money, or more correctly, your means of exchange i.e. currency.

 

Then there are those apps on your phone that they "force" you to use that gather/sell all your private information. As I'm very bad sighted I cannot clearly see the small screen on my phone preferring my home PC that has a very large monitor so see clearly all things that involve money. Being a PC there is no phone number connected to an app to prove your identity nor can you download the Android or iPhone app to your PC.

7 hours ago, zackxx said:

If digital, the banks are ultimately in control of "your" money, or more correctly, your means of exchange i.e. currency.

 

Exactly! Some Canadian truckers learned this the hard way years ago.

14 hours ago, zackxx said:

...So my understanding is that legally, cash must be accepted for payment for any good or service. By going cashless are businesses breaking the law?...

 

Yes, it is breaking the law, probably a section of the Civil and Commercial Act or whatever it is called.

 

In a broad sense, it might also be interpreted as an act of lèse majesté.

I don't use cards if I can help it. Too many times they've hit the button to charge me 3% extra exploitative fee to pay in USD rather than in THB and let the bank do a live conversion without a huge markup. 

 

Keep using cash and stop all the encroachment of surveillance and control. We don't want everywhere to end up like China where it's normal to scan your face to pay. 

On 8/17/2025 at 10:03 AM, zackxx said:

So I went to buy a coffee at a cafe in Bangkok but they didn't accept cash or payment by credit card. Only by some "app" you can download to your mobile phone that would scan their payment QR code. I left decaffeinated!

 

I attach an image of what is printed on every Thai bank note "ธนบัตรเป็นเงินที่ชำระหนี้ตามกฏหมาย" (Banknotes are legal tender).

 

So my understanding is that legally, cash must be accepted for payment for any good or service. By going cashless are businesses breaking the law?

 

I suppose they could argue that they hadn't yet served my coffee so I was not yet in debt to them. They just refused to serve me, period.

 

Having cash on you means you are in control. If digital, the banks are ultimately in control of "your" money, or more correctly, your means of exchange i.e. currency.

 

Then there are those apps on your phone that they "force" you to use that gather/sell all your private information. As I'm very bad sighted I cannot clearly see the small screen on my phone preferring my home PC that has a very large monitor so see clearly all things that involve money. Being a PC there is no phone number connected to an app to prove your identity nor can you download the Android or iPhone app to your PC.

 

My understanding is that cash is legal tender for paying debts and taxes. Until a debt is created by a sale, no obligation to accept cash exists.  

 

Lack of presentation of an accepted means of payment first allows the merchant to refuse to make a sale and therefore no debt is created and no requirement to accept cash arises. I think that's how they get around it.

On 10/6/2024 at 1:09 PM, LukKrueng said:

 

Good for the people, not so for the governments

 

 

 

Everything you do, everywhere you go - you leave a trail that can be used to send you ads and offers. It is up to you if you fall for it or not. 

You use gmail? facebook? any other social media? It's all for free BECAUSE the companies that offer the services can cash on your activities in other ways. How many people out there are willing to actually pay for all those free services? and when some services actually cost money - such as netflix, spotify etc' - how many people are trying to work around the limitations and get more than they've paid for?

 

 

I don't have statistics, but pretty sure most transactions in Thailand are by QR payment - directly from 1 bank account to another. At the moment there are ne fees collected from either end.

As for businesses that accept CCs and get charged % for it - the bank's cut is already calculated into the selling price (and in small shops where it isn't, they charge that % in addition to the selling price - so the buyer pays extra but the business gets the full 1000 THB). 

Besides, those big businesses pay their suppliers by cheques, money transfers and maybe even some cash, so no % deductions again and again as you describe.

 

 

Except 7-11, where people spend the most money regularly, doesn't accept QR payments. My local 7-11s won't even take debit card payments, only credit.

On 8/17/2025 at 10:03 AM, zackxx said:

So my understanding is that legally, cash must be accepted for payment for any good or service. By going cashless are businesses breaking the law?

 

Uh no. A business can require you pay however they want. They could only accept dog turds as payment and be completely compliant with the law.

On 8/20/2025 at 1:16 PM, captain_shane said:

Uh no. A business can require you pay however they want. They could only accept dog turds as payment and be completely compliant with the law.

Correct up to the point before a debt to them is incurred. After a debt is incurred they must accept "Legal Tender". Typically they they get around this by employing a system where you paying BEFORE you incur the debt, like at a pre-pay coffee shop. But if you pay after you get your coffee then they legally must accept cash.

On 10/4/2024 at 11:08 PM, webfact said:

Thailand is on track to outpace its Southeast Asian neighbours in becoming a cashless society,

 

Good luck with that.