Why Donald Trump Could be a Major Challenge for the British Government

[nauseus]

57 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

Rinse and repeat:

 

"The topic is about what the Trump presidency might mean for the UK. This naturally leads to a discussion about how the UK might mitigate any potential negative effects. One suggestion is to forge closer ties with our European neighbours, so discussion about EU/UK relations is very much 'on topic'." (Potentially rejoining the EU forms part of a discussion of EU/UK relations so, again, very much 'on topic').

 

Over to you.

 

And who made this "suggestion"?

[James105]

13 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

It is a bit disingenuous to focus solely on the 2024 election when highlighting the anomalies caused by FPTP. No government has won more than 50% of the vote since 1935. The current Labour government has as much of a mandate to govern as any other elected under FPTP.

 

Notwithstanding that, I am in total agreement with you about the unfairness of the FPTP system. Unfortunately, the UK electorate did not share our view and rejected PR. I would think that support for PR has increased over the past decade - although I have no empirical evidence to  support that claim - but whether those of us who favour PR are now in a majority is unlikely.

 

Imo Farage has been one of the most important political voices in the UK this century. Without him, I doubt that there would have been a Brexit referendum, so his influence is clear. However, if The Guardian article is factually correct, then, to date, Farage has spent a risible proportion of his time since the election in Clacton. If he wishes to voice his support for overseas causes and politicians that is his perojective, but it should not be at the expense of his constituents. Farage is not a minister, so his focus should be the same as any other MP i.e. on the needs of his constituents.

 

 

The UK has never been offered a vote on PR.  I think you may be referring to AV which was what was on offer and was some kind of ranking system that would eventually get to a majority government.   It was complex and I don't think it was sold particularly well hence only 42% turnout for the referendum so the majority were ambivalent to it.  

 

Farage is a leader of a party that represents over 4 million voters with just 5 seats in parliament.   That's about 800,000 voters per MP, so a bit different to a Labour backbench MP who only needed about 20,000 votes per seat.  So his role is a bit different to a typical constituency MP don't you think?  Who else will represent and stand up for those 4 million+ voters who are being ignored by the Labour party?   

[RayC]

20 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

The UK rolled over existing EU Trade deals. Not UK Trade deals struck by the EU.

 

Which was the simplist thing to do until such times as the UK sorted out it's own trade deals.

 

My point was that most of the current UK trade deals have nothing nothing to do with Brexit. 

 

The UK doesn't seem to be making much progress on sorting out its' own deals.

 

20 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

The most significant trade deal so far is the CPTPP which comes into effect next month. Which will be a major stumbling block in any backdoor attempt to rejoin the EU.

 

The UK/ CPTPP deal was meant to be signed in 2022, but has been delayed by a dispute regarding access to the UK agricultural market, a problem which caused talks about a bi-lateral UK-Canada deal to be curtailed. It is by no means certain that the UK/ CPTPP deal will be signed.

 

Moreover, welcome as any deals may be, the estimated financial benefit of joining CPTPP are small compared to the estimated losses of leaving the single market: Modelling suggests joining CPTPP could boost UK GDP by around £13.5 billion every year in the long-run (Source: gov.uk). To put this into context, the Centre for European Research estimated that leaving the Single Market cost the UK £12.9 billion in December 2021 alone (https://www.cer.eu/insights/cost-brexit-december-2021#:~:text=For%20many%20months%2C%20the%20CER's,the%20month%20(Chart%201).

 

Nevertheless, you are correct any bi-lateral trade deals struck by the UK since Brexit  - including CPTPP - would present a stumbling block to rejoining. We would probably face a stark choice i.e. rip up these deals or remain outside of the EU. If it's a purely financial decision, imo the choice seems obvious.

[RayC]

5 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

The UK has never been offered a vote on PR.  I think you may be referring to AV which was what was on offer and was some kind of ranking system that would eventually get to a majority government.   It was complex and I don't think it was sold particularly well hence only 42% turnout for the referendum so the majority were ambivalent to it.  

 

AV is a form of PR.

 

5 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

Farage is a leader of a party that represents over 4 million voters with just 5 seats in parliament.   That's about 800,000 voters per MP, so a bit different to a Labour backbench MP who only needed about 20,000 votes per seat.  So his role is a bit different to a typical constituency MP don't you think?  Who else will represent and stand up for those 4 million+ voters who are being ignored by the Labour party?   

 

No, I don't. His full-time job should be looking after the interests of his constituents. That is what he was elected to do. His role as leader of Reform is secondary.

 

If he has got too much on his plate, then he needs to prioritise. Perhaps, he could start by cutting down on the amount of time that he spends in the US. I doubt that very many of the 4 million Reform voters reside there.

[RayC]

15 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

And who made this "suggestion"?

 

It's me and me alone. There is no one else among the 70 million UK inhabitants or UK voters overseas who thinks that we should have closer ties with our European neighbours.

 

You really are getting desperate 🤦

[James105]

5 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

AV is a form of PR.

 

 

No, I don't. His full-time job should be looking after the interests of his constituents. That is what he was elected to do. His role as leader of Reform is secondary.

 

If he has got too much on his plate, then he needs to prioritise. Perhaps, he could start by cutting down on the amount of time that he spends in the US. I doubt that very many of the 4 million Reform voters reside there.

 

You mean you want him to be focusing on what Brenda at number 14 needs instead of holding the clowns in government to account and acting in the best interests of those being ignored (or jailed) by Labour.  I get it, it is the current tedious leftist talking point that every leftist has been issued with to repeat ad nauseam whenever they can.   I'm sure Farage (like other party leaders) has admin staff to help Brenda with whatever issue she has.  

[nauseus]

14 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

It's me and me alone. There is no one else among the 70 million UK inhabitants or UK voters overseas who thinks that we should have closer ties with our European neighbours.

 

You really are getting desperate 🤦

 

Desperate? Look at your own reply. Bye.

[RayC]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Desperate? Look at your own reply. Bye.

 

Have a look at yourself. Your response when challenged about anything in this thread is to either reply with a bored emoji or some ridiculous one-liner. I agree. No point us continuing this type of  puerile exchange.

 

Bye. How a nice weekend.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

 

Have a look at yourself. Your response when challenged about anything in this thread is to either reply with a bored emoji or some ridiculous one-liner. I agree. No point us continuing this type of  puerile exchange.

 

Bye. How a nice weekend.

 

Challenges within a thread should concern the topic and not your preferred EU tosh.

 

You too..

[RayC]

16 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

You mean you want him to be focusing on what Brenda at number 14 needs instead of holding the clowns in government to account and acting in the best interests of those being ignored (or jailed) by Labour.  I get it, it is the current tedious leftist talking point that every leftist has been issued with to repeat ad nauseam whenever they can.   I'm sure Farage (like other party leaders) has admin staff to help Brenda with whatever issue she has.  

 

So that's it. Farage's prime responsibility is to the viewers of GB News rather than his constituents in Clacton?

 

You'll clearly hear no criticism of the blessed Nig. 

[The Cyclist]

35 minutes ago, RayC said:

The UK/ CPTPP deal was meant to be signed in 2022, but has been delayed by a dispute regarding access to the UK agricultural market, a problem which caused talks about a bi-lateral UK-Canada deal to be curtailed. It is by no means certain that the UK/ CPTPP deal will be signed.

 

You appear to be somewhat out of date

 

Quote

UK to join CPTPP by 15 December

Following Peru’s ratification of our deal to join the bloc, the agreement will now officially enter into force by 15 December 2024.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-to-join-cptpp-by-15-december#:~:text=News story-,UK to join CPTPP by 15 December,force by 15 December 2024.

 

And anything that prevents the backdoor re-entry to the EU is a good thing, in my book.

 

It would have been a sound project if it had remained a Trade block, rather than a creeping, by stealth, political and monetary block.

[RayC]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Challenges within a thread should concern the topic and not your preferred EU tosh.

 

You too..

 

For the third time:

 

"The topic is about what the Trump presidency might mean for the UK. This naturally leads to a discussion about how the UK might mitigate any potential negative effects. One suggestion is to forge closer ties with our European neighbours, so discussion about EU/UK relations is very much 'on topic'." (Potentially rejoining the EU forms part of a discussion of EU/UK relations so, again, very much 'on topic')"

[sungod]

7 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

If (when) we rejoin, it seems that adopting the Euro will be a condition.  Might take a while for people to get used to, but inevitable in the long-run.

I dont see UK rejoining in that case.

[sungod]

22 hours ago, RayC said:

 

Politicians cannot effect change unless they are in office. Starmer will compromise on his beliefs in to gain (remain in) office. He's no different to almost any other politician in that regard irrespective of the colour of the rosette.

Yes, we can see already he has zero integrity.

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

For the third time:

 

"The topic is about what the Trump presidency might mean for the UK. This naturally leads to a discussion about how the UK might mitigate any potential negative effects. One suggestion is to forge closer ties with our European neighbours, so discussion about EU/UK relations is very much 'on topic'." (Potentially rejoining the EU forms part of a discussion of EU/UK relations so, again, very much 'on topic')"

 

Maybe, by now, you might see why I'm a proponent of the bored emoji?

[RayC]

31 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

You appear to be somewhat out of date

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-to-join-cptpp-by-15-december#:~:text=News story-,UK to join CPTPP by 15 December,force by 15 December 2024.

 

I clearly am. Not sure how I missed that? Thanks for pointing it out.

 

31 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

And anything that prevents the backdoor re-entry to the EU is a good thing, in my book.

 

It would have been a sound project if it had remained a Trade block, rather than a creeping, by stealth, political and monetary block.

 

Imo increased globalization meant that simply remaining as a trading block was never an option.

 

I accept that the EU is far from perfect. For example, Imo transferring some functions from the Commission to the Parliament would improve transparency and accountability. More importantly, it is difficult to see how monetary union can be made to work efficiently and effectively for all members at the same moment in time.

 

Nevertheless, I still believe that the UK is better off inside the tent than outside.

 

Edited November 9 by RayC
Addition of missing words

[James105]

30 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

So that's it. Farage's prime responsibility is to the viewers of GB News rather than his constituents in Clacton?

 

You'll clearly hear no criticism of the blessed Nig. 

 

I didn't mention GB news.   How much time does Ed Davey spend in his constituency?  I suspect you do not know or care, and nor should you because nobody cares.  So why do you care about what Farage does or does not do, who is a leader of a party with just 5 MPs?  Because your media overlords have told you to care?   Have you ever kept such a close watch on any previous MP ever in history and how much time they spent in their constituencies? 

[RayC]

34 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

I didn't mention GB news.   How much time does Ed Davey spend in his constituency?  I suspect you do not know or care, and nor should you because nobody cares.  So why do you care about what Farage does or does not do, who is a leader of a party with just 5 MPs?  Because your media overlords have told you to care?   Have you ever kept such a close watch on any previous MP ever in history and how much time they spent in their constituencies? 

 

You appear to believe that it is almost sacreligious to levy any criticism at the Blessed Nig.

 

No, you didn't mention GB News, I did. It is another of Farage's activities which is unrelated to his constituency work.

 

I've no idea how much time Ed Davey spends in his constituency, but it appears that he at least holds some surgeries there, which is more than you can say for Farage

 

https://www.kingstonlibdems.org.uk/eddavey-mp/contact

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1l47e86r39o.amp

 

I am a betting man, and if I can find a bookie offering some decent odds, I'll place a bet on Farage not featuring in the short-list for 'Constituency MP of the Year'.

Edited November 9 by RayC
Rephrasing

[James105]

17 hours ago, RayC said:

 

I clearly am. Not sure how I missed that? Thanks for pointing it out.

 

 

Imo increased globalization meant that simply remaining as a trading block was never an option.

 

I accept that the EU is far from perfect. For example, Imo transferring some functions from the Commission to the Parliament would improve transparency and accountability. More importantly, it is difficult to see how monetary union can be made to work efficiently and effectively for all members at the same moment in time.

 

Nevertheless, I still believe that the UK is better off inside the tent than outside.

 

 

Not when Trump is in charge as apparently he is a bit of an Anglophile.  Just a shame that we have a Labour government who will not take advantage due to their stupidity and anti-Trump rhetoric.   Also queue the inevitable screams from the "chlorinated chicken" brigade who have no doubt been to the US and eaten chicken there with no complaints. 

 

The EU will be panicking as they will have to face equal tariffs that they impose on the US.  As it stands at the moment the EU imposes a 10% tariff on US cars into Europe, but there is a 2.5% tariff on European cars going to the US as just one example. 

 

 

[candide]

4 hours ago, James105 said:

 

Not when Trump is in charge as apparently he is a bit of an Anglophile.  Just a shame that we have a Labour government who will not take advantage due to their stupidity and anti-Trump rhetoric.   Also queue the inevitable screams from the "chlorinated chicken" brigade who have no doubt been to the US and eaten chicken there with no complaints. 

 

The EU will be panicking as they will have to face equal tariffs that they impose on the US.  As it stands at the moment the EU imposes a 10% tariff on US cars into Europe, but there is a 2.5% tariff on European cars going to the US as just one example. 

 

 

U.S. tariffs are differentiated according to the specific good involved. It's 2.5% on cars but 25% on trucks.

 

Keep in mind that, unlike UK, the EU is the second export market for the U.S., so it has a significant negotiating power.

 

What will Trump demand in exchange of 0% tariffs (appart from chlorinated chicken)? Are you naive enough to think that Trump will not take advantage of the assymetric power of the U.S. to extort significant concessions from UK?

Edited November 10 by candide