Whole-house Power-Backup?: Reliable solution for frequent power failures.4K to 6K watts req

[GammaGlobulin]

Earlier this evening, I was sitting in the dark cogitating, as is my wont, due to local electrical power supply vagaries and uncertain power-outage times.... The local power consumers in my area love surprises. So, they have told the power company to cut the power, just any old time, and DO NOT TELL US in advance....Because, "We Love Surprises!".

 

Power-supply outages occur at the rate of about one per week, during times when there is a trickle of rain falling, and often when there is only forecasted rain.

 

As I was sitting in the dark, I thought:  This is STUPID of me!!!!  Why should I sit in the dark? Is there any benefit to me for engaging in this behavior?

 

As soon as the power was restored, I logged on to my computer.

 

I began reading about all the options.

However, I just want to know what might work very well in Thailand, either with or without a solar panel connected, but having this option.

The backup must be capable of providing 220 volts, and a steady 4k to 6k watts of power, and for period of two hours.

 

a. While I might like to connect a solar panel to the battery-inverter sometime in the future, I have no plan to do so now.

 

b. I need to be able to have more control over my life. When power outages happen at this rate, like what is happening around me locally, it's really purposeless to try to plan your life, to plan work, to plan video conferences, to meet a schedule, or to meet other's expectations, or follow-through on promises, or obligations.  Pretty near IMPOSSIBLE, i would say.....  It would be impossible for any logical person, in my view.

 

c. I am trying to find a solution that I can afford, and that is cost-effective, and not buy something so expensive that the cost is not justified relative to my needs.

 

d.  Most of the garbage I buy in Thailand seems to be quite unreliable.  Therefore, what would be the purpose of buying an unreliable backup-power-supply in order to protect me from a very unreliable power company supply?   True IRONY.

 

Also, I need something that most electricians can install...if possible....nothing super complex or complicated.

 

I need to get more control over my electrically-powered life.

Things like this just cannot be allowed to continue.

Even now, how do I know if I can even finish this Top

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

You need an industrial UPS and to have the areas of your house wired for it.

We have only bothered to put our security system and network on the UPS 

the batteries are external to the UPS and if we want a longer run time we can just add more batteries.

The company is CyberPower the have a 2 year on site warranty (it does work I have used it)

 

this is one of their units, we have 2 x 12v 50 Ah deep cycle batteries. If you need more power either add another unit or buy a bigger one.

 

This is NOT cheap, it is effective.

we have a smaller one, the one above is 36,800 + shipping batteries not included, expect to pay at least another 12,000 and up for them (4 x 12v 50Ah) possibly more

[Crossy]

Since you are possibly going to add solar at some point, I'd be looking at one of the many on/off grid hybrid inverters.

 

We have three Deye SUN-5K-SG03LP1-EU 5kW units running in parallel, you would only need one. Should be 35-40k Baht on Lazada, then wait for payday or 11/11 vouchers for further discount.

 

Are you actually using a full 4-6kW all the time? That's a lot of energy and would need a fair size battery pack. For example, our 14kWh Lithium packs cost about 60,000 Baht. You might save some $$$ by going for lead-acid batteries since they'll be running in "standby" most of the time.

 

Can you do a power audit of what you actually need to be running, that would allow you to choose an inverter without going crazy. 

Also, how many kWh you use during the time when the power might be off. Read your meter at about the time power failures occur and again after 6 hours. That will allow you to size your battery pack.

 

Solar panels are cheap, there's really no reason not to add them if you have space, they will save you money all the time the sun is shining 🙂 

 

You could also consider a generator with an ATS (automatic Transfer Switch). It would likely be a cheaper solution although, of course, it needs fuel and maintenance.

 

EDIT Where in Thailand are you located, I may have something "in-stock" that would suit your purposes for a competitive price. PM me if you wish to remain private 🙂 

[Bandersnatch]

About a year ago I gave my meter back to PEA. I have solar and house batteries, but what really gave me the confidence to not rely on PEA as a backup was my new EV which has bi-directional charging.

 

I have connected my EV to the grid connection of my inverters to run my whole house, but a more simple solution would be to setup a permanent electric connection to a power outlet in your bedroom from where you park your EV, this would save you the hassle of running extension  cables in the dark when you have a power-cut. You would then be able to power lights, fans and your internet etc.

 

You might not be in the market for a new car at the moment but it is definitely worth considering as factor in your next car choice. 

[GammaGlobulin]

8 hours ago, Crossy said:

Since you are possibly going to add solar at some point, I'd be looking at one of the many on/off grid hybrid inverters.

 

We have three Deye SUN-5K-SG03LP1-EU 5kW units running in parallel, you would only need one. Should be 35-40k Baht on Lazada, then wait for payday or 11/11 vouchers for further discount.

 

Are you actually using a full 4-6kW all the time? That's a lot of energy and would need a fair size battery pack. For example, our 14kWh Lithium packs cost about 60,000 Baht. You might save some $$$ by going for lead-acid batteries since they'll be running in "standby" most of the time.

 

Can you do a power audit of what you actually need to be running, that would allow you to choose an inverter without going crazy. 

Also, how many kWh you use during the time when the power might be off. Read your meter at about the time power failures occur and again after 6 hours. That will allow you to size your battery pack.

 

Solar panels are cheap, there's really no reason not to add them if you have space, they will save you money all the time the sun is shining 🙂 

 

You could also consider a generator with an ATS (automatic Transfer Switch). It would likely be a cheaper solution although, of course, it needs fuel and maintenance.

 

EDIT Where in Thailand are you located, I may have something "in-stock" that would suit your purposes for a competitive price. PM me if you wish to remain private 🙂 

 

Thanks, Man!

Some good food for thought in what you have mentioned.

 

Also, I think no need for me to look at my power meter.

For one thing, it's just better and more accurate to estimate power requirement by counting up essential appliances and computer equipment that must remain operational during a 2-hour power outage.

 

Also, in my house, the power meter is located across the street, and not inside my walls.

And, I have said many times, I do not enjoy venturing forth when it's not absolutely necessary.

Sometimes the neighbors will stare at me, for example, being curious about what kind of person might lock themselves up, behind walls, for months on end.

 

=============

In my case, I think that the bare minimum might be...

2K-watts of power for two hours.

 

And this would be true if I decided I did not want to use at least one AC during these periods of power loss.

 

============

Still, there is more to the story than this:

 

I have noticed that the voltage here is also not stable, on an ongoing basis.

 

For example, the CFL bulbs will often flicker, which brings me to the conclusion that this is caused by a temporary dip in voltage.

This is not caused by loose wiring in-house, nor by faulty bulb sockets.

 

Also, my hot water Stiebel Eltron machine is designed to draw about 37 amps to provide 8000 watts of heating, depending on actual voltage being delivered to the machine.

However, after doing a bit of testing, I see that the voltage dips amazingly low after the machine has been operating for about 5 seconds.

What I would like to have for my Eltron machine is a steady 240VOLTS, and then this would give me about 9.5kW of water heating. Instead, I think the voltage dips down to about 205VOLTS, which means less than 8kW of heating, far less.  And, this, for me, is totally inadequate for a decent shower on some of our FREEZING CM winters, when the Sun don't shine.

 

Therefore, I would be interested in some add-on battery inverter which could maintain 240VOLTS of steady and pure electrical power.

 

==============

 

Then, I think this crazy local power supply is playing havoc with my computer equipment, even though I have three APC UPS machines in use. What a waste!

 

============

 

So, in conclusion, thank you much for your food for thought.

Now, I will need to consider my minimum requirements.

Which means, I need completely uninterupted internet access, and I mean high bandwidth of no less than about 500Kbps, even during power outages.

I need to run ceiling lights.

And, I want to be able to use at least two of my microwave ovens.

And, I want the refrigerators to stay on, too.

I think, initially, I can get by without running the ACs.

 

BUT, I am ALWAYS IN FEAR of the power failing while I am in the middle of one of my long hot showers.

The soap gets in my eyes when this happens.

And, often reminds me of that great Nat King Cole song.

 

=======

Good thought about being able to add a solar panel, in the near future, and on an ongoing basis.

I run ACs 24/7/365....  So, during daylight hours, I could probably save about Bt.2500.00  PER MONTH, off my PEA bill.

 

Thanks again for your suggestions.

I just need to think a bit about the minimum that I will need.

And then calculate the savings of having 2 -panels.

BUT, the real impetus for doing....ANYTHING....is pretty much solely to solve this very regrettable situation of being forced to sit in the dark, at odd hours, and often.

Also, losing internet even for a brief period of time is not acceptable, due to the UNCERTAINTY of the TIMING of these outages.

 

All I know now is that this MUST be done if I am to continue living here.

Otherwise, maybe I should move to a hospital or something...where the power supplied by PEA is more of a priority.

 

Tks!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

[Crossy]

A couple of important questions:-

• Is this your own house or do you rent? If a rental you're going to need permission from the landlord who may want to hold on to your upgrades when you move on. If you need a portable solution then ...
• What's your (approximate) budget, we don't want to go and specify something that's way outside what you're wanting to spend.

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

A couple of important questions:-

• Is this your own house or do you rent? If a rental you're going to need permission from the landlord who may want to hold on to your upgrades when you move on. If you need a portable solution then ...
• What's your (approximate) budget, we don't want to go and specify something that's way outside what you're wanting to spend.

 

 

 

a. If the upgrades/installation is not destructive to the house, then the landlord is not a problem.  Fortunately, this time around, I lucked out on a very nice landlord.  (This goes for 3 ACs installed, as well. I never live in a place where I cannot install my own machines, and then take them with me...when the time comes.)

 

b. The budget depends upon what is needed to accomplish the goal. I will first try to search a few solutions, in order to come up with some reasonable budget.  Since, however, I do not own the house, I will always choose the lowest cost, but still reliable, solution.

 

My thought was to connect the backup-power supply to the entire house.  Then, when the outages occur, I would just turn off ACs, and use the power-supply to operate what is still operating.

 

Then, the other question is how to stabilize the voltage delivered to appliances, on a continuous basis, as the voltage from PEA fluctuates, hour by hour, as it seems to do.

 

The other point is: Compensating for fluctuating voltage can, in some designs, drain batteries.  However, the APC UPSs I use are able to compensate for fluctuations in voltage WITHOUT draining the APC batteries.

 

 

[Njoku]

Seen something like this on YouTube over the weekend, its a portable battery, inverter, can charge through mains or solar, obviously you couldn't connect the house to it but you could plug in a multi power point adapter and run a few things, they come in various sizes and prices, this ones about 38,000 B https://www.lazada.co.th/products/kanto-kt-gpower-6000-3000-inverter-storage-power-station-outdoor-power-supply-power-bank-built-in-lithium-battery-cell-i3459671602-s12820885519.html?c=&channelLpJumpArgs=&clickTrackInfo=query%3Abattery%2Bstorage%2Binverter%2Ball%2Bin%2Bone%3Bnid%3A3459671602%3Bsrc%3ALazadaMainSrp%3Brn%3A7c1eaa3942e8204e8253f35f0cd60f13%3Bregion%3Ath%3Bsku%3A3459671602_TH%3Bprice%3A37550%3Bclient%3Adesktop%3Bsupplier_id%3A1000140011%3Bbiz_source%3Ah5_internal%3Bslot%3A2%3Butlog_bucket_id%3A470687%3Basc_category_id%3A14372%3Bitem_id%3A3459671602%3Bsku_id%3A12820885519%3Bshop_id%3A374290%3BtemplateInfo%3A107882_D_E%23116176_A0%23-1_A3_C%23&freeshipping=0&fs_ab=2&fuse_fs=&lang=en&location=Phra Nakhon Si Ayutthaya&price=3.755E 4&priceCompare=skuId%3A12820885519%3Bsource%3Alazada-search-voucher%3Bsn%3A7c1eaa3942e8204e8253f35f0cd60f13%3BoriginPrice%3A3755000%3BdisplayPrice%3A3755000%3BsinglePromotionId%3A-1%3BsingleToolCode%3A-1%3BvoucherPricePlugin%3A0%3Btimestamp%3A1732550145890&ratingscore=&request_id=7c1eaa3942e8204e8253f35f0cd60f13&review=&sale=0&search=1&source=search&spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.2&stock=1

[GammaGlobulin]

2 hours ago, Njoku said:

Seen something like this on YouTube over the weekend, its a portable battery, inverter, can charge through mains or solar, obviously you couldn't connect the house to it but you could plug in a multi power point adapter and run a few things, they come in various sizes and prices, this ones about 38,000 B https://www.lazada.co.th/products/kanto-kt-gpower-6000-3000-inverter-storage-power-station-outdoor-power-supply-power-bank-built-in-lithium-battery-cell-i3459671602-s12820885519.html?c=&channelLpJumpArgs=&clickTrackInfo=query%3Abattery%2Bstorage%2Binverter%2Ball%2Bin%2Bone%3Bnid%3A3459671602%3Bsrc%3ALazadaMainSrp%3Brn%3A7c1eaa3942e8204e8253f35f0cd60f13%3Bregion%3Ath%3Bsku%3A3459671602_TH%3Bprice%3A37550%3Bclient%3Adesktop%3Bsupplier_id%3A1000140011%3Bbiz_source%3Ah5_internal%3Bslot%3A2%3Butlog_bucket_id%3A470687%3Basc_category_id%3A14372%3Bitem_id%3A3459671602%3Bsku_id%3A12820885519%3Bshop_id%3A374290%3BtemplateInfo%3A107882_D_E%23116176_A0%23-1_A3_C%23&freeshipping=0&fs_ab=2&fuse_fs=&lang=en&location=Phra Nakhon Si Ayutthaya&price=3.755E 4&priceCompare=skuId%3A12820885519%3Bsource%3Alazada-search-voucher%3Bsn%3A7c1eaa3942e8204e8253f35f0cd60f13%3BoriginPrice%3A3755000%3BdisplayPrice%3A3755000%3BsinglePromotionId%3A-1%3BsingleToolCode%3A-1%3BvoucherPricePlugin%3A0%3Btimestamp%3A1732550145890&ratingscore=&request_id=7c1eaa3942e8204e8253f35f0cd60f13&review=&sale=0&search=1&source=search&spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.2&stock=1

 

Thank you.

I'm still searching for a solution.

I'm not willing to live without a stable/reliable power supply.

Just not living...IMHO.