Help needed with one question about UK frozen state pension.

[Keith5588]

18 minutes ago, jori123 said:

Essentially, the content mentioned above is nonsensical; no one has ever been penalized , nor is it likely to happen. Inquiring about the situation with the DWP or IPC merely serves to maintain employment  and happy for the staff at IPC. and all you are doing is drawing attention to yourselves      Les, featured in the videos, is flotsam,  he does not know anything ,changes his tune frequently, as is everyone else; however, there have been no sanctions concerning OAP, and it's  guaranteed there ever will be.

@jori123 I think you are right. Most Thai people I think we are crazy wasting time on something that has not happened. 

[Goodison]

@Keith5588  People do get caught and the link below tells about bloke who lives in Pattaya. At a minimum they want the over pay money back. Fines are between £350 & £5,000. They can stop or reduce your benefit up to 3 years and could criminally prosecute you. HMRC & DWP are joined at the hip and share info and if your caught HMRC are going to take a good look at you. We are living in an ever digital world and the UK & Thailand are both CRS Countries and if you want to know what info they share look up Common Reporting Standard WIKIPEDIA.

 

https://www.iexpats.com/cheating-expats-try-fiddle-pension-claims/

[Blueman1]

On 11/24/2024 at 8:38 PM, hotandsticky said:

 

 

I agree with you, I think that You Tuber (as helpful as he tries to be) is wrong.

 

 

I have correspondence from DWP that suggests that on returning to Thailand the pension revert to the original frozen amount when you first went to Thailand.

I have correspondence from DWP that suggests that on returning to Thailand the pension revert to the original frozen amount when you first went to Thailand.I Was Told exactly that in a Phone Call to the DWP.....So by the time You'd pay for the Return flight & Accomodation in the U.K. It Would be a TOTAL Waste of Time !!

[Blueman1]

4 hours ago, Goodison said:

@Keith5588  People do get caught and the link below tells about bloke who lives in Pattaya. At a minimum they want the over pay money back. Fines are between £350 & £5,000. They can stop or reduce your benefit up to 3 years and could criminally prosecute you. HMRC & DWP are joined at the hip and share info and if your caught HMRC are going to take a good look at you. We are living in an ever digital world and the UK & Thailand are both CRS Countries and if you want to know what info they share look up Common Reporting Standard WIKIPEDIA.

 

https://www.iexpats.com/cheating-expats-try-fiddle-pension-claims/

People do get caught.....Happened to an EX M8 of mine ( He's Only A Kopite anyway 555 ! 555 ! ) & They Stopped His SP For a Few Months Until they had their Overpaid Money back.......

[Keith5588]

6 hours ago, Goodison said:

@Keith5588  People do get caught and the link below tells about bloke who lives in Pattaya. At a minimum they want the over pay money back. Fines are between £350 & £5,000. They can stop or reduce your benefit up to 3 years and could criminally prosecute you. HMRC & DWP are joined at the hip and share info and if your caught HMRC are going to take a good look at you. We are living in an ever digital world and the UK & Thailand are both CRS Countries and if you want to know what info they share look up Common Reporting Standard WIKIPEDIA.

 

https://www.iexpats.com/cheating-expats-try-fiddle-pension-claims/

Thanks  @Goodison for your thoughts and the link. I do keep changing my mind, sorry for that.

 

Sometimes I think it best to say nothing, keep head down, act as if do not know much if questioned. I heard second hand of someone that went to the UK to have a knee operation. He opened his mouth too much telling them he was living in Thailand so he ended up paying for the operation.

To receive free NHS (which I think I should be entitled to as I worked long hours for 40 years) I am glad that I know what to say if ever asked.

Maybe it's a similar situation with the UK state pension.

I think it also depends a bit on age. I am currently 71, in about 15 years time I will be 86, probably find it difficult to remember what day it is, and couldn't care less about the DWP, and in practice even if I returned to the UK I could not imagine the DWP dragging an 86 year old into court for not informing them that they had travelled to another country! 

But basically I was raised to be totally truthful and feel uncomfortable if I am not. Also there might be awkward communication in the future if I feel the need to hide the fact that I am not living in the UK. Also as you point out DWP may find out themselves.

I also like to know. I spent a lot of time researching Thailand’s immigration requirements. It was worth it as I spend very little time at immigration, find them helpful, have never paid any “extra” and never used an agent ……….  And it makes me feel good!

 

So I would like to find out what would be needed to permanently increase a frozen UK state pension.

Concerning Les and his videos, myself, you and some others don’t think he is correct. But some other people think he is totally correct.

Hopefully we will get some information from Les in the future but if not I will probably try to get an answer sometime after March next year.

[Blueman1]

3 minutes ago, Keith5588 said:

Thanks  @Goodison for your thoughts and the link. I do keep changing my mind, sorry for that.

 

Sometimes I think it best to say nothing, keep head down, act as if do not know much if questioned. I heard second hand of someone that went to the UK to have a knee operation. He opened his mouth too much telling them he was living in Thailand so he ended up paying for the operation.

To receive free NHS (which I think I should be entitled to as I worked long hours for 40 years) I am glad that I know what to say if ever asked.

Maybe it's a similar situation with the UK state pension.

I think it also depends a bit on age. I am currently 71, in about 15 years time I will be 86, probably find it difficult to remember what day it is, and couldn't care less about the DWP, and in practice even if I returned to the UK I could not imagine the DWP dragging an 86 year old into court for not informing them that they had travelled to another country! 

But basically I was raised to be totally truthful and feel uncomfortable if I am not. Also there might be awkward communication in the future if I feel the need to hide the fact that I am not living in the UK. Also as you point out DWP may find out themselves.

I also like to know. I spent a lot of time researching Thailand’s immigration requirements. It was worth it as I spend very little time at immigration, find them helpful, have never paid any “extra” and never used an agent ……….  And it makes me feel good!

 

So I would like to find out what would be needed to permanently increase a frozen UK state pension.

Concerning Les and his videos, myself, you and some others don’t think he is correct. But some other people think he is totally correct.

Hopefully we will get some information from Les in the future but if not I will probably try to get an answer sometime after March next year.

 and couldn't care less about the DWP, and in practice even if I returned to the UK I could not imagine the DWP dragging an 86 year old into court for not informing them that they had travelled to another country! ...I Think You'd be Wrong M8,I Reckon They WOULD They have NO Scruples !!!

[jori123]

10 hours ago, Goodison said:

@Keith5588  People do get caught and the link below tells about bloke who lives in Pattaya. At a minimum they want the over pay money back. Fines are between £350 & £5,000. They can stop or reduce your benefit up to 3 years and could criminally prosecute you. HMRC & DWP are joined at the hip and share info and if your caught HMRC are going to take a good look at you. We are living in an ever digital world and the UK & Thailand are both CRS Countries and if you want to know what info they share look up Common Reporting Standard WIKIPEDIA.

 

https://www.iexpats.com/cheating-expats-try-fiddle-pension-claims/

Is this correct, I mean is it actually correct the link  Its words trotted out (click bait ) for an entirety in different publications.  They cannot do anything ,there are no fines ,there is no back payment, no criminality and most certainly no SAM.  Id look and take more interest in DWPs own rules and regulations before wandering off into fantasy land

[jori123]

6 hours ago, Blueman1 said:

People do get caught.....Happened to an EX M8 of mine ( He's Only A Kopite anyway 555 ! 555 ! ) & They Stopped His SP For a Few Months Until they had their Overpaid Money back.......

   Crap, a scouser?  in court for everything bar a OAP

 

  If you can read ,and I'm assuming nothing, there are DWP  rules and regulations that apply and there is nothing in those rules and regulations that even  come close to state anything that you imply.  So who to believe ?you or the DWP   I know who'd I ignore.  By the way its unlawful to deny a Pensioner his pension

[jori123]

4 hours ago, Blueman1 said:

 and couldn't care less about the DWP, and in practice even if I returned to the UK I could not imagine the DWP dragging an 86 year old into court for not informing them that they had travelled to another country! ...I Think You'd be Wrong M8,I Reckon They WOULD They have NO Scruples !!!

No,impossible

[jori123]

" In respect of  Old age pensions ,,   fraud undermines the  value of income for people at a time of life when sources of income become ever more limited, the chances of financial recovery of income for people of that age and at a time of life when sources of income become more limited, and the chances of financial recovery are nil"

 

  source govt funded survey from Portsmouth university

[BritManToo]

11 hours ago, Goodison said:

@Keith5588  People do get caught and the link below tells about bloke who lives in Pattaya. At a minimum they want the over pay money back. Fines are between £350 & £5,000. They can stop or reduce your benefit up to 3 years and could criminally prosecute you. HMRC & DWP are joined at the hip and share info and if your caught HMRC are going to take a good look at you. We are living in an ever digital world and the UK & Thailand are both CRS Countries and if you want to know what info they share look up Common Reporting Standard WIKIPEDIA.

 

https://www.iexpats.com/cheating-expats-try-fiddle-pension-claims/

Everything I get is taxed at source by HMRC, they can look as hard as they like at me, and if they find anything extra, send me my 80% and keep their 20% with my thanks.

 

If the DWP could reduce my pension and recover any overpayment, then HMRC would need to return the 20% tax they took out of my gross taxable income.

[BritManToo]

5 hours ago, Keith5588 said:

But basically I was raised to be totally truthful and feel uncomfortable if I am not. Also there might be awkward communication in the future if I feel the need to hide the fact that I am not living in the UK. Also as you point out DWP may find out themselves.

No need to hide anything, they don't ask, and you don't volunteer information.

 

But if you do offer unrequested information,

1 accept your state pension reduction,

2 accept your randommly stopped pension (due to not recieving proof of life forms), 

3 accept your loss of using the NHS,

4 accept your risk of having your UK bank account cancelled with no notice

 

You will have no-one to blame but yourself!

[Goodison]

@Keith5588  As you mentioned the NHS I am going to go off topic as you might not know the following. Vachira Government Hospital in Phuket was the first to open a Foreigner/VIP Office and was the model for the ones that followed in Chiang Mai, Hua Hin, Udon Thani, Khon Kaen. I use the one in Udon and the service is 810 THB. For that you wait in an a/c waiting room. They have PR ladies who speak English to assist you. They fast track you to see a Dr though you still got some wait. I spoke to the PR girls and they showed me a long list that is most of the Thai Health Insurance Companies that they can bill direct and of course as a rules of thumb government hospitals are a 1/3rd the cost if a standard private hospital. Also note Khon Kaen Houses Queen Siriket Heart Center which only gets great reports on here (I put a link to one thread below). Udon Thani also has the Government Cancer Hospital (I put a ASEANNOW thread where it gets a great report). I was there last week checking out for a friend who is thinking of coming up to get his prostrate cancer treated. It is more like a private hospital than government one. Some of the reception girls speak English.   The told me the cost is the same for foreigners as Thais. It has a new 6 story radiotherapy center. 2 of my wife’s friends work at one of the private hospitals and told me if any patients need RT they take them the government hospital and they also collect and cancer medicine from there. To get an idea on prices I asked about RT. Tye told me they have different machines and 4 types of RT and depends on what type and where the cancer is to which one you need. Anyway the costs did 30 sessions for the 4 types are 120,000, 160,000, 200,000, 240,000. I also put a link below if a Vid that shows the Foreign Customer/VIP office at Udon government hospital.

 

[Goodison]

@Keith5588 I watched Les Vid again he says his sub contacted the DWP and was told he would only get his pension unfrozen for he duration of the visit. Les then contacted the DWP and was told no He is right and the pension will be reset. The sub then contacted the DWP and was told the same as Les but they refused to give this in writing and the Sub is now in the Philippines. From other links on here including Mike Lister in a link who actually went back the UK passed a habitual resident test and got that in writing from the DWP that also informed him there is no set time period and it is about satisfying the DWP assessor that he had settled back in the UK with the intent to keep it as his main resident home.I found another article from the Daily Telegraph and put the link below,  saying much the same that you must have settled back in the UK to reset your state pension otherwise it will revert back to the previous frozen rate. It’s beyond me why you have to do this in the UK and only have to spend 185 days in a reciprocal Country with no intent of settling there or need to pass a habitual resident test. So we got some people at the DWP say you only get your pension unfrozen for the duration of the visit and others saying it resets your pension and nobody there who wil give any if this in writing.  

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/will-moving-back-to-the-uk-for-a-few-years-unfreeze-my-state-pension/ar-BB1qO60G?apiversion=v2&noservercache=1&domshim=1&renderwebcomponents=1&wcseo=1&batchservertelemetry=1&noservertelemetry=1

[Keith5588]

6 hours ago, Goodison said:

@Keith5588 I watched Les Vid again he says his sub contacted the DWP and was told he would only get his pension unfrozen for he duration of the visit. Les then contacted the DWP and was told no He is right and the pension will be reset. The sub then contacted the DWP and was told the same as Les but they refused to give this in writing and the Sub is now in the Philippines. From other links on here including Mike Lister in a link who actually went back the UK passed a habitual resident test and got that in writing from the DWP that also informed him there is no set time period and it is about satisfying the DWP assessor that he had settled back in the UK with the intent to keep it as his main resident home.I found another article from the Daily Telegraph and put the link below,  saying much the same that you must have settled back in the UK to reset your state pension otherwise it will revert back to the previous frozen rate. It’s beyond me why you have to do this in the UK and only have to spend 185 days in a reciprocal Country with no intent of settling there or need to pass a habitual resident test. So we got some people at the DWP say you only get your pension unfrozen for the duration of the visit and others saying it resets your pension and nobody there who wil give any if this in writing.  

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/will-moving-back-to-the-uk-for-a-few-years-unfreeze-my-state-pension/ar-BB1qO60G?apiversion=v2&noservercache=1&domshim=1&renderwebcomponents=1&wcseo=1&batchservertelemetry=1&noservertelemetry=1

Thank you @Goodison  I agree with you, if Les is correct it is very strange that you can just go to the Philippines for 185.

 

I think the guy Stephen worded the question well to the Telegraphs pensions doctor and the reply was good.
That article enforces what you have been saying.
It states that if you move from Thailand to the UK and make sure that DWP knows you are "ordinary resident" (which I believe is the same as habitually resident or permanent resident) then on return to Thailand (after changing your mind about staying in the UK) then your pension will be frozen at the higher current amount.
If however your visit to the UK is simply regarded as visiting with no intension of permanently staying (same I believe as spending 185 days in the Philippines) then on returning to Thailand your pension will revert to the origin lower frozen amount.
 

I have now also watched Les’s recent video again. Concerning the first “pause”, the person states that the International Pensions Centre will not reply in writing.

This does annoy me, when I write to them I will do my best to get the reply in writing, I cannot see how you can make important decisions without getting the facts in writing.

The next “pause” I found to be a bit confusing. Les also talks about speaking to DWP but the first guy contacted the International Pensions Centre.

The 3^rd “pause” I found totally irrelevant. The guy went to the Philippines Sept 2024 and has had his pension increased, nobody is disputing that this will happen?

Maybe I am being a bit petty, I think Les was always contacting the International Pensions Centre.

 

Hopefully we will eventually be confident of the facts.

I have learnt a lot from the messages in this post

[Keith5588]

8 hours ago, Goodison said:

@Keith5588  As you mentioned the NHS I am going to go off topic as you might not know the following. Vachira Government Hospital in Phuket was the first to open a Foreigner/VIP Office and was the model for the ones that followed in Chiang Mai, Hua Hin, Udon Thani, Khon Kaen. I use the one in Udon and the service is 810 THB. For that you wait in an a/c waiting room. They have PR ladies who speak English to assist you. They fast track you to see a Dr though you still got some wait. I spoke to the PR girls and they showed me a long list that is most of the Thai Health Insurance Companies that they can bill direct and of course as a rules of thumb government hospitals are a 1/3rd the cost if a standard private hospital. Also note Khon Kaen Houses Queen Siriket Heart Center which only gets great reports on here (I put a link to one thread below). Udon Thani also has the Government Cancer Hospital (I put a ASEANNOW thread where it gets a great report). I was there last week checking out for a friend who is thinking of coming up to get his prostrate cancer treated. It is more like a private hospital than government one. Some of the reception girls speak English.   The told me the cost is the same for foreigners as Thais. It has a new 6 story radiotherapy center. 2 of my wife’s friends work at one of the private hospitals and told me if any patients need RT they take them the government hospital and they also collect and cancer medicine from there. To get an idea on prices I asked about RT. Tye told me they have different machines and 4 types of RT and depends on what type and where the cancer is to which one you need. Anyway the costs did 30 sessions for the 4 types are 120,000, 160,000, 200,000, 240,000. I also put a link below if a Vid that shows the Foreign Customer/VIP office at Udon government hospital.

 

@Goodison  Thank you for the information below. I know it is off topic but I am very interested, if we write more maybe we should start another post something like “Views and experiences of Thai government hospitals compared to private hospitals”.

 

Aug 2017 when I came to Thailand I decided to self insure and not buy health insurance which is why I am interested. I also lived with my Thai gf in Khon Kaen for the first 4 years before relocating to Hua Hin 3 years ago so I can relate to what you are writing.

I do not have much first hand experience as I have been lucky and had no health problems apart from some very minor problems.

I was aware about the choice of paying a bit more as a foreigner at Hua Hin government hospital but you have explained more. If I do need to go to hospital I have had it in mind for a long time that I will go to Hua Hin government hospital and find out as much as I can. 

 

You said that you put a link that shows the Foreign Customer/VIP office at Udon government hospital but I cannot see the link?

[Goodison]

@Keith5588  As I got to copy the links I will give you them one by one. Here is the Vidvthat shows the Foreigner/VIP office in Udon Thani.

 

 

[Goodison]

@Keith5588  This a thread from a few few years ago that says the Foreigner Office at Hua Hin government hospital is on the 5th floor of the Purple building but in another thread on a different forum the said 6th floor. Anyway 5th or 6th you should find it easy.

 

 

[Goodison]

There are a lot of threads on here that mention Queen Siriket Heart Center at Khon Kaen government hospital and here is one.

 

 

[Goodison]

@Keith5588  This is a thread where somebody says Udon Thani Cancer Hospital was excellent, cheap and easy to get an appointment. Sheryl who I think is the resident medical expert on here says Private hospitals are 4 to 5 times the cost of government. I think maybe that bus right for the more expensive ones like Bangkok Hospitals but fit standard Private hospitals I like Wattana I would say it’s about 3 times.

 

You can break hospital types in Thailand into 4 types.

 

1) Private Profit such as Bangkok Hospital.

2) Private Non Profit such as Bangkok Christian Hospital and Mission Hospitals in Bangkok and Phuket.

3) Public Non Government Hospital such as King Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital in Bangkok which is affiliated to the MOPH (Ministry Of Public Health) but is a Red Cross Hospital run by a Non Profit Trust.

4) MOPH (Government) Hospitals).

 

 

 

[Goodison]

@Keith5588  I can’t find any for the over 70’s but for those that are younger personal accident insurance is very cheap.

 

I also watched a Vid this week by a guy who had a bit of an accident on his scooter and ended up paying a hospital bill and was clueless that you could claim this back from the government compulsory Por Ror Bor insurance. I put a link below that explains what Por Ror Bor for a scooter covers and how to make claim which is not hard.

 

https://www.expatden.com/thailand/por-ror-bor-thailand/

[Goodison]

@Keith5588  I get 3 months supply at a time from the government hospital which is a fraction of the cost of a private hospital and even cheaper than the high street pharmacy. If you scroll down in the link to Fig.5 you will see that Private Hospitals get 35% of their revenue from medication sales and at the prices they charge I am not surprised. Some years ago I went to Wattana hospital and was charged 22,000 THB for 3 months supply. The next time I went to the government hospital and was charged less than 5,000 THB and in the high street pharmacy it was about 6,500 THB.

 

https://www.krungsri.com/en/research/industry/industry-outlook/services/private-hospitals/io/io-private-hospitals

[Goodison]

@Keith5588  Just to show you don’t always have to go to Bangkok and it pays to shop around. The Bid below shows a clinic on Udon Thani we’re they do the cataract operation and replace your eye lenses that fix your eye sight. The guy was asked the cost in the comments and said the whole thing start to finish was 150,144 THB.

 

 

[Goodison]

@Keith5588   As I said Vachira Government Hospital in Phuket was the first to open a Foreigner/VIP office that was the model for the others that followed and now they got this special medical clinic so maybe they are leading the way again and this will come to other places. I put a couple of Bids showing this SMC below.

 

 

[Goodison]

@Keith5588  Here is the 2nd Vid on the SMC.

 

 

[Goodison]

@Keith5588 OK to finish on this I put a link below that shows the standard room rates for hospitals in Phuket. Vachira is a government hospital and is 2,000 THB, Mission Hospital is a Private Non Profit Hospital and is 3,300 THB. Bangkok Hospital is a Private Profit Hospital and between 4,960 and 6,200 THB. 

 

https://www.easylivinginsurance.com/how-much-hospital-room-cost-in-phuket/

[Keith5588]

@Goodison Thank you very much for the information and the links.

[wavodavo]

On 11/24/2024 at 5:16 PM, oxo1947 said:

I don't want to take it off subject --but does anyone know how the  Philippines got this agreement with the UK--it couldn't have been about pensions as PI doesn't have one--& it wasn't about health care. It seems that if the Thai government had any sense, they would look at getting the same agreement as then a large part of  their ex-pat community here would be putting a lot more money back into Thailand.

I would guess that after w/w2 the U.S would have had a lot of soldiers that stayed in the Philipines and probably British and Aussies  also so the  gov. made it easy for them to access pensions and benifits from back home.

[Goodison]

@oxo1947  Nothing official out there. I think it was signed earlier but only came into force on 1989. Philippines has so many Expat workers and a thing for getting protection for them. There was not many in the UK then and not many Brit Expat pensioners in the Philippines which always seems to get more of a USA Vet destination. It was at the time when there was calls in the Philippines to close the USA navy bases which happened in 1992 and I tend to think it was part of trying to keep the Philippines sweet and on the side of the West. One thing I think we can be sure of is they never did it out of the kindness of their hearts. After decades of trying to get the UK to include indexed pensions for Brits in Australia in their reciprocal social security agreement Australia had enough and and scrapped the social security agreement. 45% of frozen pensioners live in Australia, 30% in Canada and 9% in NZ. So their Citizens have a right to be pissed off as their taxes are paying for social services that make up for some of the shortfall. They all said they won’t sign a CANZUK deal unless the UK index the pensions and with 84% living in their Countries that would end frozen pensions but this government is not interested in a CANZUK deal and want closer ties with the EU.  

[BumGun]

39 minutes ago, Goodison said:

@oxo1947   30% in Canada

Read this story today of this lady having a go to unfreeze the UK Pensions

 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2024/nov/30/war-veteran-frozen-pensions-no-10