Help needed with one question about UK frozen state pension.

[bkk_mike]

On 11/24/2024 at 2:38 PM, Denim said:

Put another way.

 

A man starts receiving his state pension.

 

He stays in the UK for 4 years and receives the annual increase.

He then honestly informs the DWP that he is retiring to Thailand.

 

The question  therefore is , if he retires to Thailand does he receive his pension plus the annual increases or , once  he departs the UK does his pension drop back to his original first amount ?

 

What a can of worms !

Your pension is frozen at the rate you were receiving when you first moved abroad. - so he'd keep the first 4 years of increases.

It will revert to the unfrozen amount if you go and live in a country where pensions aren't frozen for a while. But if you then return to a frozen pension country, it goes back to the earlier frozen amount.

 

It's one reason why the Philippines is maybe a better retirement location than Thailand for those dependent on the state pension.

 

English is also more widely spoken in the Philippines (because it used to be a US territory, which I always believed was the reason your pension isn't frozen there - because it's not frozen in the US). The UK hasn't signed a new agreement for over 40 years, so the only hope for those retiring to Thailand is that the Trans Pacific Partnership starts having rules around things like this (like the EU does - which is why your pension doesn't get frozen in Spain even though the UK never signed an agreement on it with Spain directly.)

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, BumGun said:

Read this story today of this lady having a go to unfreeze the UK Pensions

 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2024/nov/30/war-veteran-frozen-pensions-no-10

If she is so hard up that she says " “I can’t remember when I bought anything new, and I have to limit even essential purchases to thrift and similar stores." Who is paying for her flight and accommodation?

[jori123]

On 11/29/2024 at 1:31 AM, Goodison said:

@Keith5588  People do get caught and the link below tells about bloke who lives in Pattaya. At a minimum they want the over pay money back. Fines are between £350 & £5,000. They can stop or reduce your benefit up to 3 years and could criminally prosecute you. HMRC & DWP are joined at the hip and share info and if your caught HMRC are going to take a good look at you. We are living in an ever digital world and the UK & Thailand are both CRS Countries and if you want to know what info they share look up Common Reporting Standard WIKIPEDIA.

 

https://www.iexpats.com/cheating-expats-try-fiddle-pension-claims/

 

   You are the font of all the most useless crap imaginal.   Another scouser  having a tilt at wonderment.

 

 "common reporting standards " right  This was a bad start for one, along with the blizzard of crap following. 

 

   Did read ,(enough of it) he is 71 and look at health insurance there  LOL  

 

  In your search for the holy grail of DWP think tank on days in/days out  there is none...period. 

[bkk_mike]

5 hours ago, wavodavo said:

I would guess that after w/w2 the U.S would have had a lot of soldiers that stayed in the Philipines and probably British and Aussies  also so the  gov. made it easy for them to access pensions and benifits from back home.

I call male bovine excrement on the idea that the government was trying to make it easier after the war...
 

Because if the UK government wanted to "make it easy" for people retiring to allied countries after WW2, Australia, Canada and New Zealand wouldn't be in the list of countries where pensions are frozen. (New Zealand will actually top up a Brits frozen pension to what they deem an amount that can be lived on - similar to how pension credit in the UK would top up a New Zealander's frozen pension - New Zealand being the other country that freezes pensions if you retire abroad...)

[NoshowJones]

On 11/26/2024 at 8:23 AM, BritManToo said:

1. I don't show them my passport (and nobody in the UK has the right to see it)

2. I don't use my UK bank account for overseas transactions

3. Only the first 2 people in a property pay council tax

4. Electoral role has quite a few people missing from it, including the homeless

 

I haven't lived at my UK home address for 16 years, nor does anyone I know.

My bank, the DWP, HMRC, Passport Office, credit check agencies et al, haven't noticed yet.

 

While it may seem quite easy for them to check all this stuff, for some reason they don't. 

Is it not just the case that the DWP do not have enough staff to check anything although they can and will if anyone is grassed up, and even at that if someone wants to grass you up they would need to know your date of birth, and probably other things as well.

[Goodison]

@NoshowJones  You might find the link below an interesting read.

 

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/new-british-law-to-crack-down-on-overseas-benefit-fraud-starts-in-2025-479979

[Blueman1]

On 11/29/2024 at 7:46 PM, jori123 said:

No,impossible

What's Impossible ??

 

[Blueman1]

On 11/30/2024 at 7:24 PM, bkk_mike said:

I call male bovine excrement on the idea that the government was trying to make it easier after the war...
 

Because if the UK government wanted to "make it easy" for people retiring to allied countries after WW2, Australia, Canada and New Zealand wouldn't be in the list of countries where pensions are frozen. (New Zealand will actually top up a Brits frozen pension to what they deem an amount that can be lived on - similar to how pension credit in the UK would top up a New Zealander's frozen pension - New Zealand being the other country that freezes pensions if you retire abroad...)

WHAT Are YOU Smoking ?? YOU'VE Contradicted yourself !!!

[jori123]

17 minutes ago, Blueman1 said:

What's Impossible ??

 

  Everything you quoted

 

On 11/29/2024 at 5:46 AM, Blueman1 said:

s.hite

On 11/29/2024 at 5:46 AM, Blueman1 said:

People do get caught.....Happened to an EX M8 of mine ( He's Only A Kopite anyway 555 ! 555 ! ) & They Stopped His SP For a Few Months Until they had their Overpaid Money back.......

  

  I sincerely do mean and I do indeed bow down to your inspired and  factual  (ugh ) knowledgeable account ,however scousers are a bit prone to telling porkies, excluding you of course I can tell you are bereft of the crap that DWP regarding sanctions,..good on you

 

 

dwp regulations state non sanctionable?

You're correct. Some benefits, like Attendance Allowance (AA),  OAP are considered non-sanctionable. This means that even if there is an issue with your claim, your benefit won't be reduced or stopped as a penalty1. However, advisable l to report any changes in your circumstances to avoid potential underpayments or complications. Could well be frozen if you so wish

Would you like more information on how to report your travel plans to the DWP to ensure your benefit continues smoothly?

[jori123]

1 hour ago, Goodison said:

@NoshowJones  You might find the link below an interesting read.

 

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/new-british-law-to-crack-down-on-overseas-benefit-fraud-starts-in-2025-479979

I mean is this correct, it looks from a reliable source and not looking for clickbait  lol    I find your "interesting read" a tad erm ? what to say ? s.hite

[Blueman1]

12 minutes ago, jori123 said:

  Everything you quoted

 

  

  I sincerely do mean and I do indeed bow down to your inspired and  factual  (ugh ) knowledgeable account ,however scousers are a bit prone to telling porkies, excluding you of course I can tell you are bereft of the crap that DWP regarding sanctions,..good on you

 

 

dwp regulations state non sanctionable?

You're correct. Some benefits, like Attendance Allowance (AA),  OAP are considered non-sanctionable. This means that even if there is an issue with your claim, your benefit won't be reduced or stopped as a penalty1. However, advisable l to report any changes in your circumstances to avoid potential underpayments or complications. Could well be frozen if you so wish

Would you like more information on how to report your travel plans to the DWP to ensure your benefit continues smoothly?

I DO NOT Tell Porkies, Everything I Posted is TRUE.....

[jori123]

Just now, Blueman1 said:

I DO NOT Tell Porkies, Everything I Posted is TRUE.....

'fraid not. Its dishonest crap

[Blueman1]

1 minute ago, jori123 said:

'fraid not. Its dishonest crap

Oh F.0ff then....

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, Goodison said:

@NoshowJones  You might find the link below an interesting read.

 

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/new-british-law-to-crack-down-on-overseas-benefit-fraud-starts-in-2025-479979

Cannot get this link but have an idea what it is about.

[treetops]

20 hours ago, Goodison said:

@NoshowJones  You might find the link below an interesting read.

 

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/new-british-law-to-crack-down-on-overseas-benefit-fraud-starts-in-2025-479979

 

It's been mentioned either earlier in this thread or in a similar one that the bill mentioned in that article was prorogued in April of this year and will not be progressing any further.  There's a replacement due to be pursued by the new Labour government but it's not had it's first reading yet.

[Seppius]

I am trying to help an old boy here in Pattaya, his pension has been stopped, he told them before he moved he was going to live here so he is legit,

 

+44 191 218 7777 goes straight to voice message, it's the internation UK pension line,

 

 

Its all due to some complication coming from Santander

[Phulublub]

On 12/18/2024 at 6:40 PM, Seppius said:

I am trying to help an old boy here in Pattaya, his pension has been stopped, he told them before he moved he was going to live here so he is legit,

 

+44 191 218 7777 goes straight to voice message, it's the internation UK pension line,

 

 

Its all due to some complication coming from Santander

 

Perhaps try the online enquiry form, thought the website currently does say "It is taking longer than usual to reply to online queries."

but if that is due to staff shortages, perhaps explains why the phone is not being answered.

 

PH

 

[Seppius]

34 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

 

Perhaps try the online enquiry form, thought the website currently does say "It is taking longer than usual to reply to online queries."

but if that is due to staff shortages, perhaps explains why the phone is not being answered.

 

PH

 

Thanks for the reply, I did suggest to him this, and he got a reply saying will reply in 10 days, what would you do if it was urgent? it's crazy.

[Phulublub]

On 12/20/2024 at 2:52 PM, Seppius said:

Thanks for the reply, I did suggest to him this, and he got a reply saying will reply in 10 days, what would you do if it was urgent? it's crazy.

Agree,  CAn he use Skype or similar through a VPN to access the Pension freephone helpline on  0800 731 0469?

 

PH

[Seppius]

18 hours ago, Phulublub said:

Agree,  CAn he use Skype or similar through a VPN to access the Pension freephone helpline on  0800 731 0469?

 

PH

I don't think he has tried that, thank you for the suggestion

[Goodison]

@Keith5588 Les the YTer with the channel Retired Living The Dream did a Live Steam today and reported his Sub who was assured that the 185 day rule would reset his state pension by the International DWP office had completed more than 185 days in the Philippines keeping in touch with the International DWP office who told him they would need to see copies of his passport with entry and departure stamps and his rental lease agreement had completed more than 185 days in the Philippines and returned to Thailand and his state pension has returned to the same frozen rate it was before he left for the Philippines and the reason given by the DWP is they did not believe he gone the Philippines to make it his habitual home.  Also note all this communication with the International DWP was only verbal phone calls and when requested to provide it in writing they refused to do so.  So I think we can put this one to bed now.

[Phulublub]

4 hours ago, Goodison said:

@Keith5588 Les the YTer with the channel Retired Living The Dream did a Live Steam today and reported his Sub who was assured that the 185 day rule would reset his state pension by the International DWP office had completed more than 185 days in the Philippines keeping in touch with the International DWP office who told him they would need to see copies of his passport with entry and departure stamps and his rental lease agreement had completed more than 185 days in the Philippines and returned to Thailand and his state pension has returned to the same frozen rate it was before he left for the Philippines and the reason given by the DWP is they did not believe he gone the Philippines to make it his habitual home.  Also note all this communication with the International DWP was only verbal phone calls and when requested to provide it in writing they refused to do so.  So I think we can put this one to bed now.

No surprise at all.  The pension reset is if you move permanently.  He clearly had no intention of such a move and was trying to game the system.  Badly.    This ruse MIGHT work if you really did move permanently, but then change your mind after a hyear or so.....but after 185 days - not a chance.

 

PH

[Keith5588]

Thank you @Goodison and @Phulublub

Yes I  agree with you both. I am now in the UK and listened to Les last night. I did ask him previously to be very careful in wording a question to the DWP to remove any chance of an ambitious reply.

Strange that he still thinks he is correct.

He also discussed Thai Tax. I believe that his pension from the UK fire service is not assessed for Thai tax but I do think the UK state pension is assessed if brought into Thailand. Although the UK state pension is classed as income and subject to UK tax. 

Les very positively said UK state pension is not assessed.

I might be wrong with the tax as it does not affect me and I do not have time to check. I am just relying on memory which at nearly 72 is not always good.

[Phulublub]

3 hours ago, Keith5588 said:

Thank you @Goodison and @Phulublub

Yes I  agree with you both. I am now in the UK and listened to Les last night. I did ask him previously to be very careful in wording a question to the DWP to remove any chance of an ambitious reply.

Strange that he still thinks he is correct.

He also discussed Thai Tax. I believe that his pension from the UK fire service is not assessed for Thai tax but I do think the UK state pension is assessed if brought into Thailand. Although the UK state pension is classed as income and subject to UK tax. 

Les very positively said UK state pension is not assessed.

I might be wrong with the tax as it does not affect me and I do not have time to check. I am just relying on memory which at nearly 72 is not always good.

He is making false assumptions.  Again.

 

His fire service pension - in common with MOST UK Government Service pensions - is not exempt and thus not assessable if brought into the country (there are a few exceptions and a definitive list on the gov.uk website).

 

The UK State Pension (OAP if you wish) is not exempted by the DTA and is thus assessable.  Tax paid on that, as with any other income, to the UK Government can be offset against any Thai tax liability.  Unfortunetely, the UK Personal Allowance has no effect and ALL UK income is, if not exempt, assessable when brought into Thailand.  I have not looked into it, but fear that any ISA income (from sales, dividends or interest) would also be fully assessable and the tax free UK wrapper would be irrelevent.

 

I am a couple of years off my OAP, but am hoping my military pension be "first" of my income so my Personal Allowance will be set against that and all my OAP will be taxed so I can set ALL of that against any Thai tax liability I may have.   I ahve kept meticulous records of my assets as at 31 Dec last year and will be able to show my breakdown of which money I have brought in and I should not have any problems for several years - perhaps permanently - but planning ahead to try and mitigate anything as much as possible is, IMV, prudent.

 

PH

[rough diamond]

14 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

His fire service pension - in common with MOST UK Government Service pensions - is not exempt and thus not assessable

I think you mean that it IS exempt as it is a UK Government Service pension!

[Phulublub]

13 hours ago, rough diamond said:

I think you mean that it IS exempt as it is a UK Government Service pension!

Doh!!!  Yes...

 

For completeness, the list of what is, and what is not, a Government Service Pension is jere:

 

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343040THW BG P5(10)

 

Not applicable to Thailand, but Fire Service is  not always considered as such

 

PH

 

[treetops]

21 hours ago, Phulublub said:

I am a couple of years off my OAP, but am hoping my military pension be "first" of my income so my Personal Allowance will be set against that and all my OAP will be taxed so I can set ALL of that against any Thai tax liability I may have.

It won't be.

 

The DWP have no mechanism in place to take tax off the UK State Pension and it's always paid out in full even if it exceeds the Personal Allowance.  If it does exceed the PA then your other pensions will be coded to recover the tax amount that would have been due on the State Pension.