Russia’s economy is doomed

[VBer]

16 hours ago, candide said:

Guess which country is not in the top ten? 🤣

 

https://www.jagranjosh.com/general-knowledge/worlds-largest-economies-1694256013-1

 

GDP comparisons using PPP are arguably more useful than those using nominal GDP when assessing the domestic market of a state because PPP takes into account the relative cost of local goods, services and inflation rates of the country, rather than using international market exchange rates. 

Here the list of countries by GDP using PPP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

 

Guess which country is in the top ten? 🙂

[candide]

37 minutes ago, VBer said:

 

GDP comparisons using PPP are arguably more useful than those using nominal GDP when assessing the domestic market of a state because PPP takes into account the relative cost of local goods, services and inflation rates of the country, rather than using international market exchange rates. 

Here the list of countries by GDP using PPP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

 

Guess which country is in the top ten? 🙂

Nice try! PPP is relevant in order to assess the local dimension of the economy. In particular the standard of living in a country. That's why it is called Purchasing Power Parity. However. It is irrelevant to assess to global position of a country. A country doesn't buy or sell anything in PPP.

 

BTW, in this respect, PPP is usually used per capita. Guess which country is not even in the top 40? 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

[VBer]

39 minutes ago, candide said:

In particular the standard of living in a country.

I not agree wiith it. The standard of living in a country relevant to GDP (ppp) per capita as in your link. In that term you are right, the standard of living in Russia is pretty low.

However GDP by PPP represents whole economy more precisely than nominal GDP

[candide]

4 minutes ago, VBer said:

I not agree wiith it. The standard of living in a country relevant to GDP (ppp) per capita as in your link. In that term you are right, the standard of living in Russia is pretty low.

However GDP by PPP represents whole economy more precisely than nominal GDP

I asked Copilot (ChatGPT), in order to get an external assessment. Here's the reply:

 

### Nominal GDP:
- **Definition**: Measured at current market exchange rates, reflecting the value of goods and services in terms of the local currency converted to a common currency (usually USD).
- **Best for**: Comparing the size and strength of economies in the global market. It’s particularly relevant for evaluating countries' influence in global trade, investment, and financial markets.
- **Weakness**: It does not account for differences in cost of living across countries, which may distort the real value of economic output.

### GDP (PPP):
- **Definition**: Adjusts for differences in price levels between countries, essentially reflecting the purchasing power of each country's currency within its borders.
- **Best for**: Comparing living standards and the real value of economic output. It’s useful when you want to assess how much a given amount of income can buy in terms of goods and services within each country.
- **Weakness**: It may not accurately reflect a country’s ability to engage in international trade or its influence in global markets.

### Example of Use:
- If you're analyzing economic dominance, trade relationships, or global influence, **nominal GDP** is usually the preferred metric.
- If you're comparing living standards, economic productivity, or income distribution, **GDP (PPP)** is more appropriate.

[VBer]

2 hours ago, candide said:

### GDP (PPP)
- **Best for**: Comparing living standards and the real value of economic output. It’s useful when you want to assess how much a given amount of income can buy in terms of goods and services within each country.

So, ChatGPT says that Russia is number 4 of in  the World in terms of livings standards? 😀

I quite disagree with it.

if one country produces 1 ton of aluminium with the price of $500 and another country produces 1 ton of aluminium with the price of $1000 for me these are the same economies.

However if count by nominal GDP economy of second country will be measured as two times bigger.

 

 

[candide]

31 minutes ago, VBer said:

So, ChatGPT says that Russia is number 4 of in  the World in terms of livings standards? 😀

I quite disagree with it.

if one country produces 1 ton of aluminium with the price of $500 and another country produces 1 ton of aluminium with the price of $1000 for me these are the same economies.

However if count by nominal GDP economy of second country will be measured as two times bigger.

 

 

"So, ChatGPT says that Russia is number 4 of in  the World in terms of livings standards? 😀"

 

Where is it written in my post?

[VBer]

45 minutes ago, candide said:

Where is it written in my post?

“### GDP (PPP)
- **Best for**: Comparing living standards”

[candide]

36 minutes ago, VBer said:

“### GDP (PPP)
- **Best for**: Comparing living standards”

That's the summary made by chatGPT. With what do you disagree?

- If you're analyzing economic dominance, trade relationships, or global influence, **nominal GDP** is usually the preferred metric.
- If you're comparing living standards, economic productivity, or income distribution, **GDP (PPP)** is more appropriate.

[zmisha]

On 3/26/2025 at 5:50 AM, TedG said:

Here is a list of Western companies still doing business with Russia. 

 

https://leave-russia.org/staying-companies?flt[147][eq][]=9057

 

I don't know why the Western governments allow this to happen.

The entire industrialization of Russia in the Stalin era was made by American specialists. Sanctions were far more strict during those times. Seems like there are no walls that can stop business on its way to huge profits.

[VBer]

1 hour ago, candide said:

With what do you disagree?

I disagree that GDP by PPP represents living standards

Quality of life is affected by GDP by PPP per capita, not by GDP per PPP.

 

GDP by PPP represents the total strength of economy measured in goods sold and services provided. In this term Russia is #4 is the world, went up from #6 in last some years. 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, stevenl said:

I was hoping you would explain so you might see yourself how nonsensical your argument?/post was. Unless you think that when posters see a doomed economy it will implode within a few months.

 

Didn't seem particulary insane to me. I've been on worse exercises than that.

 

As for the numptie showing a white light on his face at minute 15, what the **** was he thinking. Waste of time driving without lights if the passenger is lit up like a street lamp.

I wasn't making an argument, as I stated the fact that the thread started in November- are you going to say it wasn't?

 

As for Give it some time. on that basis so is America's economy with it's multi trillion $ debt.

 

Russia is doing just fine when some on here claim it's in imminent danger of collapsing

 

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, VBer said:

I not agree wiith it. The standard of living in a country relevant to GDP (ppp) per capita as in your link. In that term you are right, the standard of living in Russia is pretty low.

However GDP by PPP represents whole economy more precisely than nominal GDP

Wittering about GDP etc is a waste of time as it says nothing about "standard of living" as reality for real people. Just spending more does not make people better off. Bhutan is the only country in the world with a sane SOL index as it measure people's happiness, not their money in the bank.

 

I doubt there is any western country where a majority of the people are happy.

[VBer]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just spending more does not make people better off

There are numerous studies proving than general happiness and life expectancy depend on personal income. That’s true, after certain level of income the dependency fades, in US its around 70k$ per year, in Russia I would say it’s 30k$ per year. But below  these amounts the relation is direct.

 

The general poorness in Russia is the reason why going to war is fully voluntary (unlike in the Ukraine, where men are being catched at street like a stray dogs).

For many people 10-20k$ payment on signing contract and 2.5-3.5k$ monthly is the only way out of poor life, that’s why Russia do not have problems with drafting new soldiers without general mobilization.

[MicroB]

Good discussion about the coming collapse of the Russian rail network due to lack of bearings:

 

Can also add in the impacts of Siemens not fulfilling their 2022 contract to upgrade the entire Russian Railway points system. It was worn out Soviet era kit 3 years ago. Its still worn out Soviet era kit.

[johng]

2 minutes ago, MicroB said:

due to lack of bearings:

 

You think that a country with its own space program,nuclear power and weapons  can't produce its own bearings ???   come on !!

[MicroB]

22 minutes ago, johng said:

 

You think that a country with its own space program,nuclear power and weapons  can't produce its own bearings ???   come on !!

 

Same country had to turn to a third world nation for drones that it couldn't design. same country couldn't produce shells, so i9t turn ed to 70 year old North Koerean supplies.

 

During the Cold War, Russia couldn't produce the computers necessary of CAD of submarine propellors. So it smuggled Toshiba units, Remember that?

 

Russia expends considerable effort, and probably paying over the odds, to smuggle in European and Japanese bearings. It wouldn't do so if it could make them.

 

https://united24media.com/war-in-ukraine/russia-defies-sanctions-continues-to-secure-critical-bearings-including-from-eu-manufacturers-5104

 

Russian Rail is dependant on 3 suppliers for rail wagon cassette bearings: wedish SKF,Timken and Amsted Rail. These 3 firms had established assembly plants in Russia, importing components, with final assembly to Russian specs in Mother Russia. They all left.

 

The Russians have claimed to have adapted, through local manufacture by EPK-Brenko and TEK-KOM. These bearings have about 5 years service life, and the last Western ones were fitted in 2022. The rail system has seen increased uptick is usage by heavy cargo, given the tank refurbishment factories are out in the far east, and all of the Korean munitons are coming in by rail. The frequency of derailments increased first in the fair east, then Caucasus, and now now hitting the Mosco region, indicating indigenous attempts to plug the bearings supply has failed; Russia, as the Soviet Union, with A-Bombs, men in space, could make bearings, but they never were able to make the grade of bearings for rail stock, and the main supplier always used to be Finland. Glasnost enabled access to Western Know-how. But Know-How goes once the Western engineers go home.

[johng]

7 minutes ago, MicroB said:

as the Soviet Union, with A-Bombs, men in space, could make bearings, but they never were able to make the grade of bearings for rail stock, and the main supplier always used to be Finland. Glasnost enabled access to Western Know-how. But Know-How goes once the Western engineers go home.

Yeah I still say rubbish,  the equipment and the know how is still very much there  once the Western engineers go home, not that is really "rocket science" in the first place..and if  (big if)  the Russians can't make the bearings then of course their close neighbour and friendly country China would oblige.

 

As a side note  I made bearing journals for British Timken at a factory in Potters Bar.

 

13 minutes ago, MicroB said:

During the Cold War, Russia couldn't produce the computers necessary of CAD of submarine propellors. So it smuggled Toshiba units, Remember that?

No don't remember that    I do remember the Americans spending millions producing a pen to write in space  and the Russians just used a pencil.

[MicroB]

3 hours ago, johng said:

Yeah I still say rubbish,  the equipment and the know how is still very much there  once the Western engineers go home, not that is really "rocket science" in the first place..and if  (big if)  the Russians can't make the bearings then of course their close neighbour and friendly country China would oblige.

 

As a side note  I made bearing journals for British Timken at a factory in Potters Bar.

 

No don't remember that    I do remember the Americans spending millions producing a pen to write in space  and the Russians just used a pencil.

 

deleted because I don't care about the defenders of barabarism

[johng]

16 minutes ago, MicroB said:

 

deleted because I don't care about the defenders of barabarism

Well  ok up to you 👌.

Don't know who's defending barbarism certainly not me.

[rabas]

5 hours ago, johng said:

Well  ok up to you 👌.

Don't know who's defending barbarism certainly not me.

 

Anyone who discusses this war while overlooking Putin's horrifically barbaric targeting and killing of innocent civilians, families, children, cruise missile a children's cancer hospital?  is certainly defending barbarism. 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, MicroB said:

 

Same country had to turn to a third world nation for drones that it couldn't design. same country couldn't produce shells, so i9t turn ed to 70 year old North Koerean supplies.

 

During the Cold War, Russia couldn't produce the computers necessary of CAD of submarine propellors. So it smuggled Toshiba units, Remember that?

 

Russia expends considerable effort, and probably paying over the odds, to smuggle in European and Japanese bearings. It wouldn't do so if it could make them.

 

https://united24media.com/war-in-ukraine/russia-defies-sanctions-continues-to-secure-critical-bearings-including-from-eu-manufacturers-5104

 

Russian Rail is dependant on 3 suppliers for rail wagon cassette bearings: wedish SKF,Timken and Amsted Rail. These 3 firms had established assembly plants in Russia, importing components, with final assembly to Russian specs in Mother Russia. They all left.

 

The Russians have claimed to have adapted, through local manufacture by EPK-Brenko and TEK-KOM. These bearings have about 5 years service life, and the last Western ones were fitted in 2022. The rail system has seen increased uptick is usage by heavy cargo, given the tank refurbishment factories are out in the far east, and all of the Korean munitons are coming in by rail. The frequency of derailments increased first in the fair east, then Caucasus, and now now hitting the Mosco region, indicating indigenous attempts to plug the bearings supply has failed; Russia, as the Soviet Union, with A-Bombs, men in space, could make bearings, but they never were able to make the grade of bearings for rail stock, and the main supplier always used to be Finland. Glasnost enabled access to Western Know-how. But Know-How goes once the Western engineers go home.

I'll add that to the list of posts over the past couple years claiming that Russia had no tanks, no missiles, no troops, no oil, no money, no drones, no bullets etc etc etc.

 

Ever hear the story of the boy that called wolf?

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, rabas said:

 

Anyone who discusses this war while overlooking Putin's horrifically barbaric targeting and killing of innocent civilians, families, children, cruise missile a children's cancer hospital?  is certainly defending barbarism. 

 

Anything to say about a different war with similar? I expect you don't.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, johng said:

No don't remember that    I do remember the Americans spending millions producing a pen to write in space  and the Russians just used a pencil.

Good one!

How many thousands do you think the Russians spend for a military plane toilet seat?

 

https://www.military.com/defensetech/2018/07/11/air-force-no-longer-spending-10000-toilet-seats-officials-say.html

Air Force No Longer Spending $10,000 on Toilet Seats, Officials Say

[TedG]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Good one!

How many thousands do you think the Russians spend for a military plane toilet seat?

 

https://www.military.com/defensetech/2018/07/11/air-force-no-longer-spending-10000-toilet-seats-officials-say.html

Air Force No Longer Spending $10,000 on Toilet Seats, Officials Say

What does that have to do with Russia being a big military failure? 

[TedG]

14 hours ago, johng said:

 

 

No don't remember that    I do remember the Americans spending millions producing a pen to write in space  and the Russians just used a pencil.

 

I do remember this:

 

 

 

[rabas]

17 hours ago, johng said:

 

You think that a country with its own space program,nuclear power and weapons  can't produce its own bearings ???   come on !!

 

Yes, Russia has always had ball bearing problems. The Soviets made big missiles with big nuclear warheads while America deployed smaller missiles like Minute Man with smaller warheads.  Why? Because the US invested heavily in high precision ball bearings that made their missiles far more accurate. How? High precision ball bearings are used in gyroscopes that make guided missiles far more accurate. Smaller US weapons could take out missile silos more easily than big old Russian weapons. It's always amazed me that all that high technology boiled down to ball bearings. 

 

Similar  high tech technology gaps exit today. The next revolution has begun with chip-scale atomic clocks (CSACs) so small they can be put in missiles. Such missiles can hit precise positions around the world without radio communication like GPS.  Again Putin's lack of a broad based economy leads Russia behind.  If Russia had a broad based civilian technology we wouldn't have Putin, or Putin wars. Russians and Americans alike would breath a sigh of relief. 

[rabas]

17 hours ago, johng said:

Yeah I still say rubbish,  the equipment and the know how is still very much there  once the Western engineers go home, not that is really "rocket science" in the first place..and if  (big if)  the Russians can't make the bearings then of course their close neighbour and friendly country China would oblige.

 

As a side note  I made bearing journals for British Timken at a factory in Potters Bar.

 

No don't remember that    I do remember the Americans spending millions producing a pen to write in space  and the Russians just used a pencil.

 

A famous but false narrative. I know because I was there. Russia could not make ballpoint pens because they lacked the required high precision technology. Back then ballpoint pens were better than rubles, one or two could by a bottle of vodka.

 

Smart? Do you really want to use a graphite pencil in space inhaling graphite dust or worse a broken pencil tip that could damage your lungs? Not to mention sharpen a pencil in a sealed space capsule.

 

So no, Russia was not smarter, just desperate. Russia had excellent scientists but no broad industrial base to support them. Putin is the same but worse, he berates scientists and locks up because he's paranoid and can't trust them.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, rabas said:

Do you really want to use a graphite pencil in space inhaling graphite dust or worse a broken pencil tip that could damage your lungs?

LOL. Soooo tell us how many Russians were disabled from inhaling graphite dust or worse a pencil tip.

 

Next.

[johng]

23 hours ago, rabas said:

famous but false narrative. I know because I was there.

Well please do tell us all about your space adventures and the troublsome graphite dust.. 😋

Couldn't they just sharpen the pencil inside a paper bag ?  another option would be a crayon 🖍️

Anyway my point was that the Russians solved the problem with a quick readily available cheap solution while the Americans set about reinventing the wheel (pen)

[rabas]

3 hours ago, johng said:

Well please do tell us all about your space adventures and the troublsome graphite dust.. 😋

Couldn't they just sharpen the pencil inside a paper bag ?  another option would be a crayon 🖍️

Anyway my point was that the Russians solved the problem with a quick readily available cheap solution while the Americans set about reinventing the wheel (pen)

 

Space is incredibly thrilling and unimaginably dangerous but what I really disliked was the return parades and hero worship ... no! ... wait! ... I didn't say I was in space, I was in Russia! 😋

 

So no, Russia didn't solve a problem, they lived with known dangers, they did try grease pens 🖍️ and later bought America's Fisher Space Pen when available ~1969. Yes, we sold them space pens. BTW, graphite can also present electrical fire and short hazards in a space capsule. "Whoa dude! Who fired the retros?" 

 

I also didn't mean Russia couldn't design a space pen, they couldn't even make cheap Bic pens! It was beyond their technology. On the street we were oft confronted by small groups of Russians chanting "chewing gum, chewing gum, ballpoint pen!" Ballpoint pens were like gold, which is why we brought many.

 

But my point is not Russia bad. I admire both ways, innovation and brute force determination. My point is the human misery wrought by Russian leaders' perennial neglect of its own people. Economic doom if you will.