Warning Signs: The Looming Collapse of a Critical Ocean System

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, rickudon said:

Co2 levels are higher than they have been in a million years, and physics indisputably proves that CO2 warms the atmosphere.

Water vapour is apparently the largest greenhouse gas, but governments never mention that as it would be hard taxing water vapour.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

Of course to the uneducated and inexperienced... nothing is obvious.. you've nicely confirmed you lack of knowledge.

 

It seems you're so naive that you expect some simple, cheap and effective solution for a planet wide problem. 

I never mentioned simple or cheap. Making it up as usual.

Are you saying we should use ineffective solutions?

Edited yesterday at 04:09 AM by thaibeachlovers

[BritManToo]

On 12/2/2024 at 8:21 AM, Yagoda said:

Is this related to the Ice Age they were predicting 40 years ago?

I thought we hit the tipping point already and were all doomed.

Don't worry, there's always 10 years left ...........

 

[Yagoda]

4 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

Great you're putting your intelligence on display for all to see.

Well since your so smart, answer the question. Here Ill make it easier, what was the average world wide temperature between dec 1, 1522 and dec 1, 1532?

 

Surely if the world is warming to the point of crisis (as it was cooling to the point of crisis 40 years ago) that question should be answerable.

 

 

[tomazbodner]

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

Well since your so smart, answer the question. Here Ill make it easier, what was the average world wide temperature between dec 1, 1522 and dec 1, 1532?

 

Surely if the world is warming to the point of crisis (as it was cooling to the point of crisis 40 years ago) that question should be answerable.

 

 

You still don't get it.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I suspect it's the "man made" part they don't believe. It's a bit hard to deny that climate is changing.

 

IMO the man made part was introduced so governments could levy more taxes and give taxpayers money to countries that are making zero attempts to prepare for natural climate change. They want to give a trillion $ to "poor countries" LOL, but no mention of how the money would be spent. One suspects very little of whatever money is given gets past certain government pockets.

I tend to agree a lot of money dedicated to climate change is badly directed. Carbon Capture and Storage ( CCS ) is an example, thermodynamic BS. There is not a single CCS facility operating to design specifications. Billions have been wasted on white elephants.

 

A 1.1 degree C change in ocean temperature doesn't sound like much. In fact, it represents a massive amount of energy.

 

The Russian Tsar Bomba is the most powerful nuke ever detonated. It produced an energy output of 2 X 10*17 joules.

 

The total volume of the world's oceans is approximately 1.335 billion cubic kilometres.

 

To raise the temperature of the world's oceans by a single degree requires 5,45 X 10*24 joules. I.e 7 orders of magnitude greater than the Tsar Bomba.

 

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Water vapour is apparently the largest greenhouse gas, but governments never mention that as it would be hard taxing water vapour.

We can do something about the amount of carbon dioxide we generate. AFAIK nothing can be done to prevent generation of water vapor.

 

Every 1 degree C increase in temperature results in the atmosphere holding 7% more water.

[newbee2022]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I suspect it's the "man made" part they don't believe. It's a bit hard to deny that climate is changing.

 

IMO the man made part was introduced so governments could levy more taxes and give taxpayers money to countries that are making zero attempts to prepare for natural climate change. They want to give a trillion $ to "poor countries" LOL, but no mention of how the money would be spent. One suspects very little of whatever money is given gets past certain government pockets.

I don't agree. Clean air and lower (as it's now) temperature is not for free unless you're ready to pay for it by giving knowledge and money to "undeveloped" countries to save the environment and to reduce CO2 output. Of course, if you are a 78 yo President you will not care about climate change.

[Yagoda]

4 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

You still don't get it.

Translation: I cant answer the question.

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Well since your so smart, answer the question. Here Ill make it easier, what was the average world wide temperature between dec 1, 1522 and dec 1, 1532?

 

Surely if the world is warming to the point of crisis (as it was cooling to the point of crisis 40 years ago) that question should be answerable.

 

 

The first thermoscope was invented in 1592. It could only measure temperature changes, not specific measurements.

 

There is no accurate answer to your question. Red Indians in America and Aborigines in Australia did not have thermometers to get average data until 300 years later.

 

Asking scientists to measure the temperature from ice cores and tree rings over a 10 year period in the Middle Ages is too small a time span. Try 100 years, you might get an answer.

 

We know the average sea temperature has risen by 1.1 C since the Industrial Revolution. We also know CO2 levels have gone from 300 ppm to 420 ppm. QED.

Edited 15 hours ago by Lacessit

[still kicking]

On 12/2/2024 at 9:18 AM, RichardColeman said:

Easy fix 200% tariff on everything from india, China and other mass polluting countries. Turn it off at source, little point in us doing anything with them running riot

10 Countries with Highest Total CO₂ emissions in 2019 (Global Carbon Project):

Country	CO₂ emissions 2022
China	12667.43
United States	4853.78
India	2693.03
Russia	1909.04
Japan	1082.65
Indonesia	692.24
Iran	686.42
Germany	673.6
South Korea	635.5
Saudi Arabia	607.91

[connda]

Don't worry.  The earth will be nuked before the ice caps melt and oceanic gyres grind to a halt.  I've studied that stuff so I know what happens next - but don't worry.  You're much more likely to either die from a 1,000,000 C fireball or nuclear winter.  The only "climate change" I see in the future is made by thermonuclear Armageddon. But hey - feel free to worry about the ocean currents stopping.  It will take your minds off of the Geo-politics that will probably end the world as ya'll know it.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

You still don't get it.

So you don't know the answer then.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

I don't agree. Clean air and lower (as it's now) temperature is not for free unless you're ready to pay for it by giving knowledge and money to "undeveloped" countries to save the environment and to reduce CO2 output. Of course, if you are a 78 yo President you will not care about climate change.

The witteratis have been wittering about climate change for about 20 or 30 years and why has nothing been done up till now? IMO because the ruling elites knew it was BS, but now they are running out of money to fund their wars and need more money, ergo climate change is the ideal way to raise taxes and transfer vast sums of money by pretending that if we only give enough money to "undeveloped" countries the problem will magically go away, which is a nonsense.

 

BTW, Undeveloped nations have loads of resources and make loads of money, but it doesn't get spent on improving the country. I'm sure you know that.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, connda said:

Don't worry.  The earth will be nuked before the ice caps melt and oceanic gyres grind to a halt.  I've studied that stuff so I know what happens next - but don't worry.  You're much more likely to either die from a 1,000,000 C fireball or nuclear winter.  The only "climate change" I see in the future is made by thermonuclear Armageddon. But hey - feel free to worry about the ocean currents stopping.  It will take your minds off of the Geo-politics that will probably end the world as ya'll know it.

I disagree on the nuking. I think even the most stupid leader knows that a nuclear war kills us all, even them.

I do agree that those born today will not die of old age. Pollution, dead oceans, burnt forests, drought and lack of potable water will likely kill many, followed by most in the water wars, and by plague.

Meanwhile the mobs carry on, wittering about the latest apple phone ( people actually pay $2,000 for a phone now, gasp ) or the latest Beyonce warbling, or the latest footballer scandal, and ignoring that the planet is in crisis, not because of IMO fake MMCC, but simply from overpopulation, from which all our problems ensue.

 

Baaaaah.

[ElwoodP]

Post advocating violence removed.

[BritManToo]

11 hours ago, Lacessit said:

We know the average sea temperature has risen by 1.1 C since the Industrial Revolution. We also know CO2 levels have gone from 300 ppm to 420 ppm. QED.

CO2 in the Cambrian period was 4000ppm, that was the time when most diversity of life first appeared (Cambrian explosion) on earth. The average temp at that time was 22c (vs 14c now).

 

So it looks like higher Co2 and higher temperature was better for life back then. 

Edited 4 hours ago by BritManToo

[impulse]

11 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The first thermoscope was invented in 1592. It could only measure temperature changes, not specific measurements.

 

There is no accurate answer to your question. Red Indians in America and Aborigines in Australia did not have thermometers to get average data until 300 years later.

 

They estimate historical temperatures by looking at tree rings, pollen, ice cores and other well accepted methods.  So there is an answer.  Maybe not one that fits the narrative.  But there is an answer.

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by impulse

[tomazbodner]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So you don't know the answer then.

Another genius

[thaibeachlovers]

23 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Another genius

So you still don't know the answer.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/2/2024 at 2:19 PM, nobodysfriend said:

Self inflicted suffering and final disappearance are the consequences for a species that designed it's world on political and economical systems that are based on greed and ignorance .

Disagree that they are based on ignorance. IMO they knew exactly what would happen and did it anyway. Their own children will suffer, but they still pursue profit over good.

[newbee2022]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The witteratis have been wittering about climate change for about 20 or 30 years and why has nothing been done up till now? IMO because the ruling elites knew it was BS, but now they are running out of money to fund their wars and need more money, ergo climate change is the ideal way to raise taxes and transfer vast sums of money by pretending that if we only give enough money to "undeveloped" countries the problem will magically go away, which is a nonsense.

 

BTW, Undeveloped nations have loads of resources and make loads of money, but it doesn't get spent on improving the country. I'm sure you know that.

What made you ignoring meteorologists the last at least 40 years? Given, that you're not a scientist, it's proven, that our increasing temperatures (air and sea) destroy our planet. You need a proof? Look for all the coral bleaching around the world or the increasing incidents of flooding, hurricanes, storms, rain. And ask the Maldives. Sea level is rising. 

For me it's sad, that there are still people denying climate change and the urgent necessity to stop it. 🥴

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, newbee2022 said:

What made you ignoring meteorologists the last at least 40 years? Given, that you're not a scientist, it's proven, that our increasing temperatures (air and sea) destroy our planet. You need a proof? Look for all the coral bleaching around the world or the increasing incidents of flooding, hurricanes, storms, rain. And ask the Maldives. Sea level is rising. 

For me it's sad, that there are still people denying climate change and the urgent necessity to stop it. 🥴

Who is denying climate change? Not I. I guess if you lot are running around screaming climate change denier it saves you from having to come up with something sensible to say.

 

I, as always, refer to the faux MMCC BS, beloved of government and the twitterati.

 

Sea level is rising.

 

You lot really love that particular bit of BS, don't you? Unless the sea is rising more at the Maldives than on the shores of NZ, then it's fake news. Sea level is rising by millimeters a year, not centimeters.

 

There are other reasons for islands flooding more, such as they are sinking. You did learn about tectonic plates at school didn't you? You know, those geological features of which land is formed and rises and falls depending on which plate is over the other.

Perhaps the Maldives are sinking simply because of the weight of BS being applied there.

 

BTW, if the islands are sinking, and it's not just a clever strategy to get developed countries to throw a few billion at them, there is not a single thing that can be done to stop it. Man vs nature, man loses every time.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Don't worry, there's always 10 years left ...........

 

As I see it there are two alternative futures for human kind

a/ climate change kills us all

 

b/ we pollute and overpopulate ourselves to extinction.

[newbee2022]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Who is denying climate change? Not I. I guess if you lot are running around screaming climate change denier it saves you from having to come up with something sensible to say.

 

I, as always, refer to the faux MMCC BS, beloved of government and the twitterati.

 

Sea level is rising.

 

You lot really love that particular bit of BS, don't you? Unless the sea is rising more at the Maldives than on the shores of NZ, then it's fake news. Sea level is rising by millimeters a year, not centimeters.

 

There are other reasons for islands flooding more, such as they are sinking. You did learn about tectonic plates at school didn't you? You know, those geological features of which land is formed and rises and falls depending on which plate is over the other.

Perhaps the Maldives are sinking simply because of the weight of BS being applied there.

 

BTW, if the islands are sinking, and it's not just a clever strategy to get developed countries to throw a few billion at them, there is not a single thing that can be done to stop it. Man vs nature, man loses every time.

 

I know now you're not into science at all. 

And you are not believing scientists? What about your doctor? Sure, you don't believe him too? 

Sorry, but I can't chatt with those who are dead from the neck up. Of course I will not include you. Have a good public holiday.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As I see it there are two alternative futures for human kind

a/ climate change kills us all

 

b/ we pollute and overpopulate ourselves to extinction.

a) I don't see CO2 as a pollutant, it's more like plant food.

b) We (as in white folk) are less than 14% of the world population (down form 60% in 1940), so I think 'we' have already done our bit for population control.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, newbee2022 said:

I know now you're not into science at all. 

And you are not believing scientists? What about your doctor? Sure, you don't believe him too? 

Sorry, but I can't chatt with those who are dead from the neck up. Of course I will not include you. Have a good public holiday.

Doctor worship ....... I don't really see doctors as scientists, and I certainly don't believe them, although I may seek their advice from time to time.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, newbee2022 said:

I know now you're not into science at all. 

And you are not believing scientists? What about your doctor? Sure, you don't believe him too? 

Sorry, but I can't chatt with those who are dead from the neck up. Of course I will not include you. Have a good public holiday.

If the doc wants to prescribe a pill, to treat symptoms, instead of discussing how to eliminate the cause, then correct, I don't trust them.

 

Scientist ... IMHO only ... usually agree with who ever is funding their research.  I no longer trust the CDC or FDA either, as lied to us enough.   If last few years haven't highlighted that, oh well, discussion over