Taxation Registration

[Aforek]

On 12/9/2024 at 11:09 AM, msbkk said:

I went to the Revenue Department to obtain a tax ID without any problem. 

Which documents did you provide ? I read we need a "proof of address" , is the tabian enough ? I live in a house (I build it for my wife ) 

thank you 

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Aforek said:

Which documents did you provide ? I read we need a "proof of address" , is the tabian enough ? I live in a house (I build it for my wife ) 

thank you 

A yellow house book would probably suffice, as would any recent correspondence addressed to you from say a bank. FWIW I keep past copies of my bank credit card bill, for this purpose.

[Mutt Daeng]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

5 minutes ago, Aforek said:

Which documents did you provide ? I read we need a "proof of address" , is the tabian enough ? I live in a house (I build it for my wife ) 

thank you 

A yellow house book would probably suffice, as would any recent correspondence addressed to you from say a bank. FWIW I keep past copies of my bank credit card bill, for this purpose.

The YHB is what I used recently when I applied for a TIN.

[msbkk]

1 hour ago, Aforek said:

Which documents did you provide ? I read we need a "proof of address" , is the tabian enough ? I live in a house (I build it for my wife ) 

thank you 

Passport, visa, tabian baan and copies of withholding tax payments for some dividends. 

[lamyai3]

I noticed I have a TIN listed on one of my savings account statements here in relation to the (very low) interest rates given. Is this the same number the RD is talking about? 

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, lamyai3 said:

I noticed I have a TIN listed on one of my savings account statements here in relation to the (very low) interest rates given. Is this the same number the RD is talking about? 

It may be a bank tax ID number.

[worrab]

On 12/10/2024 at 12:11 PM, merijn said:

I fully agree with you and i'm not afraid for the uimmigration departament as they are not linked anyhow with the tax departement but the tax department could start doing audits and then start doing difficult when not paying taxes.

 

As it was explained to me is that the Thai embassy has to authorise/certify the translation the UK (P60) tax papers, but that wasn't very clear i have to admit.

And then this had to be authorised (or how you call it) by the MOFA in Bangkok.

 

 

I understood that, and someone will correct me if wrong, no translation of P60, for example, was required. English was accepted.

 

[worrab]

Had a chat with an advisor for a Tax Accountancy firm yesterday. The upshot of the discussion was, if you do not remit money to Thailand then you do not need to register for TIN. He also reckoned not to bother in order to reclaim tax back on interest on a bank account. Let sleeping dogs lie and avoid opening a potential can of worms. 

[black tabby12345]

On 12/9/2024 at 10:54 AM, StevieAus said:

I read an article on this site by an expat

"taxation expert" advising expats who reside here permeantly to register and obtain a tax ID. 

I am interested as to how many have followed this advice. 

 

Forget about that BS.

It is the scare campaign that only benefits some crook accounting firms.

Providing Useless Advice to the foreigners and charging them hefty fee($500-1000 for 60-90 minutes senseless talk).

Thai govt has not made any clear announcement on after some media's sensational headlines in May this year.

So those accountants really wouldn't know how it goes either. 

Still, they are trying to take  advantages of the worry of the expat.

 

If you are after Useful Expert Advice, better read the article below.

It was posted last weekend here.

 

[sikishrory]

Got it through work. Very simple. 

[Upnotover]

3 minutes ago, sikishrory said:

Got it through work. Very simple. 

So that's your suggestion?  Get a job?

[soalbundy]

On 12/9/2024 at 1:41 PM, oldcpu said:

I agree that there is more than one than one thread on this topic.

 

I posted many times on my current experience here. 

 

What the Phuket RD office told me (via my Thai wife as translator) that as long as I had insufficient assessable income from within Thailand, and if I was bringing no money into Thailand from outside of the country, then I did not need a Thai Tax_ID number (TIN).

 

Further, other factors come into play in assessing whether one's foreign income is assessed as assessable income if remitted to Thailand.

 

Recently (last year) the Thai RD documents PAW.161 and PAW.162 appear to indicate that any savings as of 31-Dec-2023 and earlier, if brought into Thailand after 31-Dec-2023, are NOT taxable (and I suspect not considered assessable income). Hence remitting such money is not enough justification to obtain a Thai TIN.

 

Also, if one has foreign income from a country with a Double Tax Agreement (DTA) with Thailand, dependent on the wording /agreement within that DTA, its possible one's foreign income (such as pensions) may not be taxable in Thailand....  Of course the DTA might say the opposite, so one needs to check their DTA.

 

I guess what I am saying, is this really depends on the specific situation of each person, and its quite possible most expats do not need a to register for Thai taxation.  ...   BUT in all due honesty - I don't know.  I don't know the average financial situation of expats.

 

Every expat needs to examine their own financial situation and make an appropriate determination as to their own requirements. 

 

I've just fished out a tax assessment sent to me from my German tax office from a few years ago of which I took no notice but was relieved that I didn't have to pay any tax in Germany on my income. Basically it said due to the DTA, Thailand has the right to tax my income and therefore no tax demands from Germany will be made of me. So for me it seems straight forward, I have to pay tax in Thailand. I can't be upset about that though, it means I haven't paid tax anywhere for the last 19 years.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, black tabby12345 said:

 

Forget about that BS.

It is the scare campaign that only benefits some crook accounting firms.

Providing Useless Advice to the foreigners and charging them hefty fee($500-1000 for 60-90 minutes senseless talk).

Thai govt has not made any clear announcement on after some media's sensational headlines in May this year.

So those accountants really wouldn't know how it goes either. 

Still, they are trying to take  advantages of the worry of the expat.

 

If you are after Useful Expert Advice, better read the article below.

It was posted last weekend here.

 

I became aware recently on another (local) forum that one naïve  soul paid 7,000 THB to an adviser just to obtain a TIN! Nothing else, just a TIN.

 

Don't go there @StevieAus

 

 

[black tabby12345]

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

I became aware recently on another (local) forum that one naïve  soul paid 7,000 THB to an adviser just to obtain a TIN! Nothing else, just a TIN.

 

Don't go there @StevieAus

 

 

 

Really?

Unfortunate, but pretty ill-informed man.

Paying that much money for nothing.

For something he wouldn't even need(if not working here) in the first place.

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, black tabby12345 said:

 

Really?

Unfortunate, but pretty ill-informed man.

Paying that much money for nothing.

For something he wouldn't even need(if not working here) in the first place.

Maybe he wanted to claim a tax refund of tax paid on bank savings account interest?

 

Maybe his overseas bank requested his Thai TIN?

 

Maybe he remitted a large amount of assessable income?

 

There could be many valid reasons but there's no good reason pay 7k baht to obtain one, it's almost like paying thousands to get your visa extended! 

[black tabby12345]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Maybe he wanted to claim a tax refund of tax paid on bank savings account interest?

 

 

If so, makes some sense.

Only if the 15% tax on his bank interest exceeds accountant fee though.

[ujayujay]

Yesterday I renewed my 1 Year Retirement Visa.....Tax Number etc. never was a Topic for Bank and Immigration

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, ujayujay said:

Yesterday I renewed my 1 Year Retirement Visa.....Tax Number etc. never was a Topic for Bank and Immigration

I've never seen it said that it would be, only that it could be linked in the future at some point but that's pure speculation.

[ujayujay]

23 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I've never seen it said that it would be, only that it could be linked in the future at some point but that's pure speculation.

My words👍

[thaibreaker]

4 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I've just fished out a tax assessment sent to me from my German tax office from a few years ago of which I took no notice but was relieved that I didn't have to pay any tax in Germany on my income. Basically it said due to the DTA, Thailand has the right to tax my income and therefore no tax demands from Germany will be made of me. So for me it seems straight forward, I have to pay tax in Thailand. I can't be upset about that though, it means I haven't paid tax anywhere for the last 19 years.

Same as in Norway, and Scandinavian countries. It's the law saying if you live more than half the year in Thailand (or any country), you must pay taxes there. The DTA only makes sure you aren't double taxed.

However, the threshold for not paying taxes on pension in Norway, is 260.000 NOK. Or 23.200 USD, 790.000 baht. It's obviously lower in Thailand, so if that is our income, and what we bring into Thailand, we will pay around 5-8% tax on that, depending on our deductions. 

Not much, but still some. And the TIN is definitely needed for us, if we have officially emigrated to Thailand, and reported  the change of address.

It all depends on which country you're from, and what your DTA says.

[ericbj]

On 12/10/2024 at 4:36 AM, merijn said:

I'm living on Phuket and want to apply for the Thai Tax number (TIN).

But heard mixed report that this is possible or very difficult to get.

Does anybody has experience or advice for this ?

I'm willing to use a agent if this is required and affordable.

I don't work in Thailand but transfer sometimes money from my UK account to my Thai account.

 

It seems that without a TIN you cannot pay Thai income tax.
And yet, if you receive in Thailand in one tax year (1st Jan. to 31st Dec.) at least 60,000 baht, you are obliged to register for tax.  I.e. to obtain a TIN.  Failing which a fine, even if income is below the tax threshold.
"Receiving in Thailand" includes transfers to Thailand from abroad.

 

For me, Thai derived income is negligible, being only interest on a bank deposit account (from which I believe tax is deducted at source).
But I remit to Thailand, from time to time, several months-worth of my measly UK DWP pension.  Plus a bit derived from savings; savings that are held as precious metals and converted into fiat currency as needed.

 

On Wednesday I went to the local tax office to ask for the form to fill in to request a TIN.

However the person I dealt with, who appeared to be the manager, felt I was not eligible for a TIN because not having significant income from within Thailand.

 

I pointed out I receive transfers from abroad into my Thai bank account; and showed him my passbook.

He studied this and my passport with its 'O' visa, spoke of making photocopies but did not do so, made some telephone calls, studied his computer, and finally it was arranged I should come back another day.

 

Seems no foreigners in these parts are registered  to pay tax unless they have a business or are employees.

I can see one further hurdle, if all other obstacles are cleared.  According to online doc., a copy of one's rent agreement is required.  I have none.  Despite renting the same house since 1st December 2007.

 

If I ask for a rent agreement, through the intermediary of an employee at the business of the house-owner's son-in-law (since I have not seen the house-owner for several years) there is a high risk of a rent increase.

 

[Ricohoc]

8 minutes ago, ericbj said:

 

It seems that without a TIN you cannot pay Thai income tax.
And yet, if you receive in Thailand in one tax year (1st Jan. to 31st Dec.) at least 60,000 baht, you are obliged to register for tax.  I.e. to obtain a TIN.  Failing which a fine, even if income is below the tax threshold.
"Receiving in Thailand" includes transfers to Thailand from abroad.

 

For me, Thai derived income is negligible, being only interest on a bank deposit account (from which I believe tax is deducted at source).
But I remit to Thailand, from time to time, several months-worth of my measly UK DWP pension.  Plus a bit derived from savings; savings that are held as precious metals and converted into fiat currency as needed.

 

On Wednesday I went to the local tax office to ask for the form to fill in to request a TIN.

However the person I dealt with, who appeared to be the manager, felt I was not eligible for a TIN because not having significant income from within Thailand.

 

I pointed out I receive transfers from abroad into my Thai bank account; and showed him my passbook.

He studied this and my passport with its 'O' visa, spoke of making photocopies but did not do so, made some telephone calls, studied his computer, and finally it was arranged I should come back another day.

 

Seems no foreigners in these parts are registered  to pay tax unless they have a business or are employees.

I can see one further hurdle, if all other obstacles are cleared.  According to online doc., a copy of one's rent agreement is required.  I have none.  Despite renting the same house since 1st December 2007.

 

If I ask for a rent agreement, through the intermediary of an employee at the business of the house-owner's son-in-law (since I have not seen the house-owner for several years) there is a high risk of a rent increase.

 

 

 

Thanks for this.  It seems to be different everywhere regarding the acquisition of a TIN, whether or not anyone owes tax, etc. from province to province.  It's all very much like the differences at immigration offices.

 

SO MANY unanswered questions by the Thailand government makes all the inconsistencies infuriating; and here we all sit.

 

 

 

[chiang mai]

26 minutes ago, ericbj said:

 

It seems that without a TIN you cannot pay Thai income tax.
And yet, if you receive in Thailand in one tax year (1st Jan. to 31st Dec.) at least 60,000 baht, you are obliged to register for tax.  I.e. to obtain a TIN.  Failing which a fine, even if income is below the tax threshold.
"Receiving in Thailand" includes transfers to Thailand from abroad.

 

For me, Thai derived income is negligible, being only interest on a bank deposit account (from which I believe tax is deducted at source).
But I remit to Thailand, from time to time, several months-worth of my measly UK DWP pension.  Plus a bit derived from savings; savings that are held as precious metals and converted into fiat currency as needed.

 

On Wednesday I went to the local tax office to ask for the form to fill in to request a TIN.

However the person I dealt with, who appeared to be the manager, felt I was not eligible for a TIN because not having significant income from within Thailand.

 

I pointed out I receive transfers from abroad into my Thai bank account; and showed him my passbook.

He studied this and my passport with its 'O' visa, spoke of making photocopies but did not do so, made some telephone calls, studied his computer, and finally it was arranged I should come back another day.

 

Seems no foreigners in these parts are registered  to pay tax unless they have a business or are employees.

I can see one further hurdle, if all other obstacles are cleared.  According to online doc., a copy of one's rent agreement is required.  I have none.  Despite renting the same house since 1st December 2007.

 

If I ask for a rent agreement, through the intermediary of an employee at the business of the house-owner's son-in-law (since I have not seen the house-owner for several years) there is a high risk of a rent increase.

 

FYI

 

Interest income

Interest received from bank deposits, loans to finance companies, debentures, and bills issued by a corporate entity is subject to WHT at a flat rate of 15%. Individuals may choose to exclude interest income from other income, in which case they pay the 15% WHT, or they may choose to include such interest income with other income and pay tax according to the PIT rates, in which case the tax withheld at source is credited against the tax liability.

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/income-determination#:~:text=Interest income,a flat rate of 15%.

 

If you had no other income that was assessable, you could just let the Revenue keep the 15% and your taxes would be deemed settled for the year, there would be no need to file.

[ericbj]

37 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

If you had no other income that was assessable, you could just let the Revenue keep the 15% and your taxes would be deemed settled for the year, there would be no need to file.

 

The problem is whether my remittances from the UK to my Thai bank account are assessable.

 

The local tax office seems to think they are not.

Unfortunately my reading of things differs; despite the fact that I have no desire to pay tax.  And also no desire to be penalised for not paying it.

 

Have certainly brought in more than the 60K baht required to register; failing which one may be subject to a fine.

You have prompted me to do a quick check on how much I have remitted to my Thai bank account this year and it looks to be just under 300K.  So one needs now to take into account allowances.

 

My expenditure well exceeds 300K baht because of purchases overseas and in Thailand made with foreign credit and debit cards.  Notably about 200K for outpatient treatment in a Thai hospital, not covered by my accident-only-inpatient-only health insurance.  [At 80 years of age health insurance becomes prohibitively expensive]

 

[chiang mai]

21 minutes ago, ericbj said:

 

The problem is whether my remittances from the UK to my Thai bank account are assessable.

 

The local tax office seems to think they are not.

Unfortunately my reading of things differs; despite the fact that I have no desire to pay tax.  And also no desire to be penalised for not paying it.

 

Have certainly brought in more than the 60K baht required to register; failing which one may be subject to a fine.

You have prompted me to do a quick check on how much I have remitted to my Thai bank account this year and it looks to be just under 300K.  So one needs now to take into account allowances.

 

My expenditure well exceeds 300K baht because of purchases overseas and in Thailand made with foreign credit and debit cards.  Notably about 200K for outpatient treatment in a Thai hospital, not covered by my accident-only-inpatient-only health insurance.  [At 80 years of age health insurance becomes prohibitively expensive]

 

If I were you, I would disregard the credit card transactions. They have been a hotly debated topic but there is scant evidence that they are considered to be assessable or that TRD is interested in them.

 

At age 80 you will likely be eligible for around 500k in deductions, exemptions and allowances, including the 150k zero rated tax band. 

 

If your pensions are government issued, such as US Social Security or UK Civil Service, they will be exempt by treaty.

 

My guess is from what you have written that you don't have much to be concerned about.