Opening UK bank account-non tax resident

[stubuzz]

I will give you the short version. I have a home in Thailand. I work in KSA and my salary is paid to Barclays UK.

I have a UK address and I want to open another savings account. The application is asking about UK tax residency- What are the implications if i am not truthful? Could this possibly affect my account with Barclays?

[Gaccha]

I don't understand. You want to tell them you live in Thailand when you really live in KSA?  I cannot understand the aim of your scheming and this may affect the unraveling of the consequences.

 

In any event, it will be fraud by false representation under the Fraud Act 2006. There will then be a cascade of further problems as you appear to be considering tax evasion.

[stubuzz]

9 minutes ago, Gaccha said:

You want to tell them you live in Thailand when you really live in KSA? 

I don't actually live in the KSA i work here. My home in Thailand is in my wife's name. I am still registered in the UK at my family home and i need a new savings account there.

 

Bank applications ask for tax residency information, i can add my KSA details if necessary.

 

As for tax evasion, my KSA salary is not taxable as i am not a UK tax resident.

 

Maybe offshore is the way to go.

[Keeps]

17 minutes ago, stubuzz said:

Maybe offshore is the way to go.

I had a quick look at the below link earlier. I will look at in more depth when I have time. Might be of use to you though.

 

I'm slightly puzzled regarding some of your comment. Do you specifically want to open an account with someone other than Barclays? I have Barclays current account but have just opened an Everyday Saver account with them and no questions whatsoever were asked. 

 

https://international.standardbank.com/international/personal

[stubuzz]

15 minutes ago, Keeps said:

Do you specifically want to open an account with someone other than Barclays? I have Barclays current account but have just opened an Everyday Saver account with them and no questions whatsoever were asked. 

Barclays saver is about 2.75% whereas, these https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/savings-accounts-best-interest/ 4.8%.

 

Did you open the account through the app? Are you still living in the UK or are you in a similar situation to me with a Uk address but living/working elsewhere?

[NanLaew]

34 minutes ago, stubuzz said:

I don't actually live in the KSA i work here. My home in Thailand is in my wife's name. I am still registered in the UK at my family home and i need a new savings account there.

 

Bank applications ask for tax residency information, i can add my KSA details if necessary.

 

As for tax evasion, my KSA salary is not taxable as i am not a UK tax resident.

 

Maybe offshore is the way to go.

 

Which country do you spend most of your time in? That would normally determine your tax domicile. Are you depositing your Saudi-earned, tax-free salary in a UK bank? A Thai bank?

 

The simple days of declaring to HMRC that you are "non-resident and not ordinarily resident" doesn't hold the same guarantees as it used to.

 

Opening an offshore account isn't too easy any more. Most of them, like the Isle of Man, are restricted to residents (and tax payers) of the Isle of Man. I recall the Channel Island "tax havens" are similarly restrictive.

 

However, if you are a high net worth individual and can afford a half-million opening deposit and maintain a minimum amount of half of that at all times, there's still some banks that will welcome you.

 

Maybe seek the counsel of a qualified financial advisor in the UK before opening another account there?

[Keeps]

4 minutes ago, stubuzz said:

Barclays saver is about 2.75% whereas, these https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/savings-accounts-best-interest/ 4.8%.

 

Did you open the account through the app? Are you still living in the UK or are you in a similar situation to me with a Uk address but living/working elsewhere?

I am earning 5.12% on Barclays Rainy Day Saver account but only up to £5,000 limit. The rate then drops considerably over this threshold. I set the account up via online banking but I have Premier Banking which I think is the reason for the enhanced interest rate. I also use SAGA and Newcastle Building Society for larger amounts with decent rates.

 

My circumstances are different to yourself. I split my time pretty much equally between UK and Thailand but would currently view my residence as UK. I pay no tax in the UK, nor elsewhere. I am 56 years old but retired. I have structured my finances in such a way that currently, I do not pay tax in the UK. I envisage this to continue until I am of State Pension age.

 

I appreciate that this is not really of any help to what you are trying to achieve. Have you looked at any of the APP only savings accounts mentioned on moneysavingexpert? I assume they will still ask the pertinent questions but maybe worth a look?

[NanLaew]

15 minutes ago, stubuzz said:

Barclays saver is about 2.75% whereas, these https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/savings-accounts-best-interest/ 4.8%.

 

Did you open the account through the app? Are you still living in the UK or are you in a similar situation to me with a Uk address but living/working elsewhere?

 

Barclays have a reputation for closing accounts of those they suspect are no longer resident in the UK. No questions asked either.

[NanLaew]

I have heard and read good things about Chase online and I see their savings account can earn 4.75% on new accounts. You need to have a current account first though. You apply for that online via their app.

[stubuzz]

47 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Which country do you spend most of your time in? That would normally determine your tax domicile. Are you depositing your Saudi-earned, tax-free salary in a UK bank

Most of my time is in Saudi working. 2-3 months in Thailand and a few weeks in the UK.

My salary is tax free deposited in the UK which is also tax exempt as a non UK tax resident.

[stubuzz]

53 minutes ago, Keeps said:

I am earning 5.12% on Barclays Rainy Day Saver account but only up to £5,000 limit.

Barclays 1 year bonds are giving 3.9%. I may look at the application process in the app to see if they ask any questions.

[Keeps]

1 minute ago, stubuzz said:

Barclays 1 year bonds are giving 3.9%. I may look at the application process in the app to see if they ask any questions.

Could also consider applying for a Barclays Cash ISA which you could deposit £20k to before April (assuming you haven't used your annual allowance already) and same again a week or so later (new tax year). Can currently get 3.85% fixed for 18 months (and all tax free within an ISA) or I think they are offering 4% for a one year fix. 

[topt]

8 hours ago, Keeps said:

I pay no tax in the UK, nor elsewhere. I am 56 years old but retired. I have structured my finances in such a way that currently, I do not pay tax in the UK.

Congratulations on being able to do that.

Can I presume your income is all nearly tax free vehicles in the UK as otherwise you would be liable for tax on it? (sounds like you spend more than 90 days a tax year in UK).

[topt]

9 hours ago, stubuzz said:

I will give you the short version. I have a home in Thailand. I work in KSA and my salary is paid to Barclays UK.

I have a UK address and I want to open another savings account. The application is asking about UK tax residency- What are the implications if i am not truthful? Could this possibly affect my account with Barclays?

Strictly speaking as a non-UK resident for tax you should not declare you are in order to open a new account but that is really only down to how you feel about it. Personally if you need one I would open with someone other than Barclays if only to make sure you have another UK account if Barclays decided to debank you as @NanLaew mentioned.

 

I doubt another bank will learn or care as long as nothing else changes.

 

 

[topt]

9 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Most of them, like the Isle of Man, are restricted to residents (and tax payers) of the Isle of Man.

I am not sure that is true for the offshore versions of UK banks.

Certainly not the case for Lloyds International but don't have time now to check the others that spring to mind - Santander, Barclays, Citi, Standard Bank for example

[NanLaew]

9 minutes ago, topt said:

I am not sure that is true for the offshore versions of UK banks.

Certainly not the case for Lloyds International but don't have time now to check the others that spring to mind - Santander, Barclays, Citi, Standard Bank for example

 

I stand corrected and should have been more specific. Old accounts with the "main" UK bank's international divisions are unaffected but they have increased their due diligence on existing account holders through more detailed KYC requirements. I believe there's a higher bar for those wishing to open a new offshore account, including declaration of domicile and minimum deposit.

 

For example the NatWest International permitted domiciles are, "Austria, Bahrain, Belgium, Bermuda, Canada, China (Expats only), Denmark, Finland, France, Hong Kong, Kuwait, Norway, Oman, Qatar, South Africa, Sweden, Switzerland, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom (Non-domiciled only) or the United States of America."

 

How recent was your experience opening a new account at Lloyds International? Are they Isle of Man or Channel Islands registered? Was it all achieved online or was there any face-to-face required?

[NanLaew]

For the OP, maybe check the following as an alternative to UK high street banking at Barclays.

 

https://international.barclays.com/who-we-help/uk-expats/

 

A lower financial kick-off requirement ia available at NWI.

 

https://www.natwestinternational.com/international-banking/current-accounts/international-select-account.html#overview

[sandyf]

9 hours ago, Keeps said:

I am earning 5.12% on Barclays Rainy Day Saver account but only up to £5,000 limit. The rate then drops considerably over this threshold. I set the account up via online banking but I have Premier Banking which I think is the reason for the enhanced interest rate. I also use SAGA and Newcastle Building Society for larger amounts with decent rates.

The query is because you are asking for a savings account. You can say you are UK tax resident, many UK tax residents do not pay any tax.

If the amount of interest earned reaches a certain level the bank will be obliged to inform HMRC, who will in turn then ask you to pay the tax.

They may well decline the application for other tax residencies.

I had the same with HSBC, only confirmation was required not numbers or anything.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, topt said:

Strictly speaking as a non-UK resident for tax you should not declare you are in order to open a new account but that is really only down to how you feel about it.

You can be tax resident in more than one jurisdiction.

[Gaccha]

 

There is an ongoing conflation of domicile and residence. If you were born in the UK it is almost certain that you will remain domiciled in the UK for the rest of your life. It is notoriously difficult to lose that position. What you are almost certainly talking about is residency for tax purposes.

 

And I still don't get the OP's position:

 

15 hours ago, stubuzz said:

I don't actually live in the KSA i work here. My home in Thailand is in my wife's name.

 

Where is "here"? My assumption is Thailand. And what do you mean by live? More than 180 days so you are clearly a resident in tax matters. You mentioned earlier that you spend most of your year in KSA, which means that you live there, not "here".

 

In any event, you can easily open a pound sterling offshore bank account in the Isle of Man etc.

 

If you attempt to open a British onshore bank account then they will not allow it unless you lie about your place of residency. That is, as I explained earlier, a crime. The bank will ask you for your tax ID. What are you going to do? 

 

The money might not be taxed in the UK or Saudi Arabia, as you've pointed out, but that does not mean that Thailand cannot tax it if it enters Thailand such as via an ATM withdrawal, should you at any point be resident of Thailand.

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, Gaccha said:

 

If you attempt to open a British onshore bank account then they will not allow it unless you lie about your place of residency. That is, as I explained earlier, a crime. The bank will ask you for your tax ID. What are you going to do?

That's actually not true, when you try to open a UK bank account, they do a simple credit check (for identification purposes). Same when you claim a company pension.

 

Which they can't do without a UK address, last place you lived in the UK will usually get that credit check. Only a crime if it's in order to steal money.

[Gaccha]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

That's actually not true

 

It's literally the first thing they ask.

 

 

Whether it amounts to a crime obviously will depend on the circumstances, but the government's own explanatory guidelines even offer up this very scenario:

 

 

You'll notice this is much wider than stealing from another. You don't even need a victim. Obviously using the account to enact tax evasion is to cause loss to another party.

[Keeps]

9 hours ago, topt said:

Congratulations on being able to do that.

Can I presume your income is all nearly tax free vehicles in the UK as otherwise you would be liable for tax on it? (sounds like you spend more than 90 days a tax year in UK).

Stocks and Shares ISA, Cash ISA and SIPP. The ISA's are tax free and I can move money from the SIPP into drawdown taking 25% tax free. This combination currently provides the income I require. I have not taken any income from the drawdown pot as this would be taxable although I could take my annual tax free allowance of £12,570.

 

I can also churn some of the money taken from the SIPP into the Stocks and Shares ISA to reduce my tax liabilities going forward. At some stage I will need to pay tax but hopefully not too much. I am still 11 years away from state pension age. Of course, tax free rules could change in the future but this strategy works for me currently. I currently spend approximately 5 and half months in Thailand each year with the remainder in the UK. 

[BritManToo]

24 minutes ago, Gaccha said:

 

It's literally the first thing they ask.

 

 

Whether it amounts to a crime obviously will depend on the circumstances, but the government's own explanatory guidelines even offer up this very scenario:

 

 

You'll notice this is much wider than stealing from another. You don't even need a victim. Obviously using the account to enact tax evasion is to cause loss to another party.

Did you read the "make a gain" bit?

[topt]

8 hours ago, sandyf said:

You can be tax resident in more than one jurisdiction.

Aware of that but not sure how that has anything to do with what I was posting.......

[topt]

4 hours ago, Gaccha said:

The bank will ask you for your tax ID. What are you going to do? 

Give them your NI number.

Forgetting the "legality/ethics?" of the question that is what you would do if you were UK resident for tax anyhow so that by itself I would suggest is not an issue.

[Gaccha]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Did you read the "make a gain" bit?

Did you miss the "or" and the "or" and the "or"?

[arick]

If you have an account already just open up another account they don't ask any questions you just open up another account on your app.

[arick]

11 hours ago, Keeps said:

Stocks and Shares ISA, Cash ISA and SIPP. The ISA's are tax free and I can move money from the SIPP into drawdown taking 25% tax free. This combination currently provides the income I require. I have not taken any income from the drawdown pot as this would be taxable although I could take my annual tax free allowance of £12,570.

 

I can also churn some of the money taken from the SIPP into the Stocks and Shares ISA to reduce my tax liabilities going forward. At some stage I will need to pay tax but hopefully not too much. I am still 11 years away from state pension age. Of course, tax free rules could change in the future but this strategy works for me currently. I currently spend approximately 5 and half months in Thailand each year with the remainder in the UK. 

You're better off not to be a tax in the UK if you want your state pension just pay class to contributions if you ever get through might take them 18 months or 2 years until you end up getting through to the his Majesty's revenue and pensions