DTV visa extension

[NorthernRyland]

9 hours ago, Tod Daniels said:

I think you got your wires crossed 😮 

I know someone who got one of the first DTV's issued (just after they started handing them out) and he's been in and out of the country over a dozen times on it since his first entry.. Each entry got him a new 180 day entry stamp and he wasn't asked anything by the officer at passport control. 

 

Yes but it's not even been 6 months since it was issued. What remains to be seen is what happens when you get past the 12 month mark.

[DrJack54]

25 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

What remains to be seen is what happens when you get past the 12 month mark.

The "soft power" options are a joke.

I can deal with the online remote work. 

Not so much 5 yr visa to lean to make Pad Thai or mess around in a gym.

Will be interesting to see how agents in Thailand assisting with DTV in places such a as Savannakhet will change when eVisa starts 2025

[NorthernRyland]

7 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

The "soft power" options are a joke.

I can deal with the online remote work. 

Not so much 5 yr visa to lean to make Pad Thai or mess around in a gym.

Will be interesting to see how agents in Thailand assisting with DTV in places such a as Savannakhet will change when eVisa starts 2025

It makes more sense when you consider there was no official agreement between the departments. Immigration may think it's a joke too but no one ever asked them. What they did totally turned the whole immigration system upside down and they did this unilaterally (a person mentioned one guy signed off on it)  but that's not the same as going through parliament or something.

 

My brother has basically given up on running a business in Thailand is trying to sell now. One of the primary reason is the hassle he goes through every year and apparently he has to pay bribes just it through do extra documents requested etc... That's how immigration normally is so what you say about soft power makes no sense they would tolerate this.

[ericthai]

5 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

Yes - Thai's jobs lost / businesses closed when immigration blocked their repeat-customers from staying here with "crackdowns" against "coming too often" / "staying too long" - which isn't even a legal-reason to deny-entry..  

I dont know why your friends place closed up as Thailand as been strict on staying in Thailand long term on a tourist visa and visa exempt since the early 2000's, so no new crackdowns on that. 

 

really I dont believe that many people got denied or stop coming to Thailand to be able to close down businesses. 

You do know Thailand has had 30+ million visitors this year. Are you sure Covid wasn't the issue for lack of customers?

 

lastly immigration is doing their jobs. They always say that you need to stay in Thailand on the proper visa. Trying to live in Thailand full time on tourist visa is not the correct visa and is going to be an issue at some point. Yes, immigration can legally deny anyone, a visa doesn't guarantee entry.  

 

[Scouse123]

14 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

That's not "abuse."  The purpose is to bring in longer-staying people, who have at least 500K savings, which weeds-out poor people, who have close-to-zero savings.

 

Anyone caught begging, stealing, working-illegally, etc should be deported and banned for-cause. The type of visa they used to enter is irrelevant.  

 

The 500K funds step reduces the likelihood of that sort of behavior, vs tourist-type entries. Some will undoubtedly financially-wreck themselves with the Thai version of "The stripper really likes me" delusion, and similar - the same as do some retirees, tourists, etc.

 

 

So you are saying a 5-year visa for a two-week cookery course, or a few fillings with a clean and polish at a dentist, is the ' spirit ' of which this visa was created or intended?

 

I differ in my thinking.

 

The retirement extension based on "O" VISA and money in the bank method, ensures you must have 800K for two months before, and three months after the granting of the visa.

 

It can never fall below 400K in the bank outside these months.

 

I don't see any such rule for the 500K on the DTV visa, bearing in mind this money is supposed to be a guarantee they can sustain themselves, particularly on soft power visas, where they don't have provable income.

 

Proof remains to be seen on how this visa is viewed by the authorities down the line.

[Rob Browder]

On 12/17/2024 at 10:06 PM, ericthai said:

... immigration is doing their jobs. They always say that you need to stay in Thailand on the proper visa. Trying to live in Thailand full time on tourist visa is not the correct visa and is going to be an issue at some point. Yes, immigration can legally deny anyone, a visa doesn't guarantee entry

They can "legally deny" - yes - but that isn't what they are doing.   "Staying here too much" on tourist-entries is not a legal reason to deny entry, which is why they then stamp a different false-reason in the passport, to cover their tracks. 

 

If there is any doubt as to the motivating-reason for this behavior, note they have agent-services lined-up to cash in on what they are doing.  Annual-extensions are similar - see the agent, and the "problems" go away. 

 

As long as folks don't mistakenly think immigration are "just doing their job," then they can budget and plan to deal with the real-world situation, and stay here with few problems.  Being naive, and believing "following the law" is enough, and things can end badly. 

[Rob Browder]

On 12/18/2024 at 6:17 AM, Scouse123 said:

So you are saying a 5-year visa for a two-week cookery course, or a few fillings with a clean and polish at a dentist, is the ' spirit ' of which this visa was created or intended?

 

I differ in my thinking.

 

The retirement extension based on "O" VISA and money in the bank method, ensures you must have 800K for two months before, and three months after the granting of the visa.

Yes, the purpose was getting people who were spending their money in other countries, where immigration do not hassle people on tourist-entries, to stay in Thailand, instead.  Why else make it 5 years for "soft power" options?  Why push them out to spend their money in Cambodia, instead of Thailand?  Add "e-gate" entry, and Immigration will be cut out of the loop (to their consternation - no agent-money with "pre-screened" / "vip" entry).

 

The money-rules are silly, when dealing with people who have no reason to work illegally for a tiny-fraction of the min-wage in their home country, and have no access to Thai welfare in any form.  "Running out of money" is a self-correcting problem.  The rare oddball who is caught sleeping rough can easily be rounded-up and deported - one case among tens of thousands.  Those money-rules only exist to create agent-business.

[Rob Browder]

On 12/17/2024 at 6:56 PM, NorthernRyland said:

This begs the question, why have the 5 year elite visa? Why make retirees, married people and business do annual extensions anymore? 

The "elite visa" is via a private company, who pay off immigration with part of the money. 

The annual extensions should be scrapped - ideally, would be like an online 90-day report, and electronically pay the fee.  In Laos/Cambodia, it's ~$350-USD / year - a bit more if under retirement-age - no hoops except the money, which also proves you are not destitute.

[bigt3116]

7 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

The "elite visa" is via a private company, who pay off immigration with part of the money. 

The annual extensions should be scrapped - ideally, would be like an online 90-day report, and electronically pay the fee.  In Laos/Cambodia, it's ~$350-USD / year - a bit more if under retirement-age - no hoops except the money, which also proves you are not destitute.

 

The Thailand Elite Visa program is managed by Thailand Privilege Card Co., Ltd. (TPC), a state-owned enterprise under the supervision of the Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT). 

[ericthai]

23 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

They can "legally deny" - yes - but that isn't what they are doing.   "Staying here too much" on tourist-entries is not a legal reason to deny entry, which is why they then stamp a different false-reason in the passport, to cover their tracks. 

 

If there is any doubt as to the motivating-reason for this behavior, note they have agent-services lined-up to cash in on what they are doing.  Annual-extensions are similar - see the agent, and the "problems" go away. 

 

As long as folks don't mistakenly think immigration are "just doing their job," then they can budget and plan to deal with the real-world situation, and stay here with few problems.  Being naive, and believing "following the law" is enough, and things can end badly. 

This isn't what I asked, you said that you had Thai friends that lost their business due to immigration denying people entry and what immigration is doing is illegal. 

 

As I said what immigration is doing is not illegal, they will ask for onward ticket, see cash, etc if you dont have any of these they will refuse you entry, all valid, nothing to do with covering their tracks, it's procedure. 

 

But this isn't the point, I asked how did this effect your Thai friends in loosing their business due to immigration?  As I dont believe that many people are turned away. This isn't  something new immigration is doing, it's been going on for decades.  Meanwhile Thailand keeps hitting new record highs for tourist numbers.

 

[bigt3116]

4 hours ago, ericthai said:

As I said what immigration is doing is not illegal, they will ask for onward ticket, see cash, etc if you dont have any of these they will refuse you entry, all valid, nothing to do with covering their tracks, it's procedure. 

 

Section 12 of the Immigration act does not mention proof of onward travel, so if you were denied entry due to that, it would indeed be illegal.

 

Also, it is the airlines that ask for proof of onward travel, not immigration.

[Phillip9]

15 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

Also, it is the airlines that ask for proof of onward travel, not immigration.

 

Immigration certainly can ask for an onward ticket.  They routinely ask my filipina gf to show her onward ticket when entering by both land or air.  Those of us with first world passports are not normally asked for it, but I suspect it is quite common that immigration asks people with third world passports if they have an onward ticket.

[bigt3116]

2 hours ago, Phillip9 said:

 

Immigration certainly can ask for an onward ticket.  They routinely ask my filipina gf to show her onward ticket when entering by both land or air.  Those of us with first world passports are not normally asked for it, but I suspect it is quite common that immigration asks people with third world passports if they have an onward ticket.

 

The terms first world etc are no longer used, they were aligned to the 2 major sides of the cold war.

 

Secondly, you do the Phillipines no justice, they are actually a 'developing nation' which would equate to the old 'second world'.

[Briggsy]

11 hours ago, ericthai said:

As I said what immigration is doing is not illegal, they will ask for onward ticket, see cash, etc if you dont have any of these they will refuse you entry, all valid, nothing to do with covering their tracks, it's procedure. 

In my case, they definitely did not ask to see onward ticket or cash. Entry was immediately refused based on history of stays in Thailand (no visa exempts, I should add). The denial stamp was for both "no appropriate means of supporting oneself" and "suspecting of illegal work in the kingdom". Both of these reasons were stamped in my passport with no investigation, no evidence and were palpably untrue. I had loads of cash on me, cash in a Thai bank account, etc. and was not working in Thailand.

 

So, the impression you seem to be under that Immigration actually stamp true reasons for denial of entry in your passport is both demonstrably false and factually wrong. They are using the 2 reasons stated above as "catch-all" reasons to provide a veneer of legal cover for themselves.