How Has Thailand’s New Income Tax Law Affected Your Spending Habits?

[Lacessit]

It makes zero difference to me.

 

I have 5-6 years of non-taxable pre-2024 savings to transfer, before I start bringing in anything that can be classed as income.

 

Even then, it is a pension subject to a DTA.

 

I'll start worrying when Immigration starts demanding a Thai tax return as part of the retirement extension process.

[RSD1]

4 hours ago, flexomike said:

Not true, only if you go to a tax office and have them activate the number for tax purposes. There is a form that you have to fill out to get this done.

Interesting if that is true. But also, if you have interest earning bank accounts or equity investments overseas, then you often need to provide the overseas financial institution with a local TIN. Perhaps people with pink cards just provide their Thai ID numbers to overseas financial institutions in those instances. So I wonder what happens if those financial institutions eventually start sending income statements and tax documents to the TRD under all those foreigner owned Thai ID card numbers. 

[kinyara]

1 minute ago, RSD1 said:

Good and bad. Hard to generalize. Once somebody moves to Thailand full-time, they usually buy a vehicle or two, which is a large purchase and often carries large import duties. Some also buy condos. These are all large sums that go into the economy. In addition, people above the age of 50 may spend a lot more money on private healthcare in Thailand over the next 20 to 30 years. They may also leave a sizable inheritance to a younger Thai wife, which then will also get also spent within the local economy. 

 

As you say it is hard to generalise, if they have all the above are they really likely to uproot themselves and potentially family to save what in reality with personal allowances a relatively small amount of tax.

[RSD1]

5 minutes ago, kinyara said:

 

I don't even think there is even a couple of hundred thousand retired expats in the country. I'm sure I read a figure of 60,000 quoted by the head honcho a few years ago. I think we generally overstate our importance.

30 years ago, I remember hearing a figure that there were over 100,000 Japanese residents living in Thailand alone. Perhaps that number has grown since then. Add to that all the new Chinese runaways and the numbers there could be large too. And this is not even counting retirees from Western countries.

[RSD1]

8 minutes ago, kinyara said:

 

As you say it is hard to generalise, if they have all the above are they really likely to uproot themselves and potentially family to save what in reality with personal allowances a relatively small amount of tax.

It all depends on how big their tax liability might be. For some it could be small, but these probably aren't the bigger spenders and earners either. The ones with the larger sums, who would be paying a lot more tax are more likely to leave. If you read through all the posts on this topic, you will already see a few people who mentioned that they've already uprooted and are happy to spend their money in other countries, and not just to other cheap places like Vietnam and Cambodia. Some of them are heading back to Western countries as well. Presumably, these aren't the ones who are on small fixed incomes and who do have other options to leave. 

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, Surasak said:

This is not a NEW LAW! It has been in existence since the 1970s to my knowledge, but only this year been fully implemented.

I didn't say it was a new law. The rule on question has been reinterpreted, that reinterpretation has only existed since September 2023, not forever.

[scubascuba3]

4 hours ago, flexomike said:

Why would you do like that when you have been saying that you would be staying outside of Thailand so that you don't meet the 180 day threshold

Just in case

[ChumpChange]

I've seen a few of the usual suspects and their posts talking about how they're not going to apply for a TIN or file a tax return until the hammer falls where they need to supply one to the Immigration department in order to extend their long-term visas and/or they get threatened with legal or criminal action by the local authorities. 

 

What I think this brazen minority is failing to understand is that the TRD could simply take a list of long-term residents from the Immigration department and then start knocking on the doors of the ones who haven't filed a tax return for 2-3 years. 

 

The TRD and the MOFA might even instruct Immigration not to extend their long-term visas again until they clear all their back taxes, together with interest and penalties. That could get really nasty. 

 

Probably not worth tempting fate because if they smell easy money from some low-hanging fruit, then they are pretty likely to go after it. So I wouldn't want to be in those shoes a couple of years from now. Basically, it sounds to me like the ones who plan to put their head in the sand and ignore the tax filing requirements really haven't thought things through too carefully. 

 

But if you prefer to live life by the seat of your pants as you age into your golden years, then go for it.

[spidermike007]

These lLaws have not gone into effect yet they're still being proposed they're still being written we have no obligation whatsoever to pay anything until the laws are on the books. 

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

These lLaws have not gone into effect yet they're still being proposed they're still being written we have no obligation whatsoever to pay anything until the laws are on the books. 

The TRD doesn't agree with you, neither do I.

[kinyara]

45 minutes ago, RSD1 said:

30 years ago, I remember hearing a figure that there were over 100,000 Japanese residents living in Thailand alone. Perhaps that number has grown since then. Add to that all the new Chinese runaways and the numbers there could be large too. And this is not even counting retirees from Western countries.

 

I was talking about those on retirement visa status. The Japanese would certainly have been the biggest community of working foreigners back then and are probably still significant in the business community but they would already be taxpayers under income tax regulations. I seriously doubt the Japanese figure significantly in the currently retiree population affected by this tax law change 

[aldriglikvid]

Talked to a local realtor that has been making decent to good money the last years: business slowed down somewhat earlier this year and the remittance tax was said the reason by the customers; now the market has come to an halt. She tells me that 80-90% of customers enticed to buy use the remittance tax to not go ahead. 

[kinyara]

If I wasn't already retired in Thailand but dead set at making the move, if I was planning on bring in the money to purchase big ticket items like a condo and a car, that would be the year I managed my time in country to less than 180 days. 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, aldriglikvid said:

Talked to a local realtor that has been making decent to good money the last years: business slowed down somewhat earlier this year and the remittance tax was said the reason by the customers; now the market has come to an halt. She tells me that 80-90% of customers enticed to buy use the remittance tax to not go ahead. 

Not surprising but there is a fairly easy way to avoid that.

Just be sure to NOT be a Thai tax resident in the year that you bring in your funds to buy the real estate. Easiest for those initially moving to Thailand. 

[RSD1]

8 minutes ago, kinyara said:

 

I was talking about those on retirement visa status. The Japanese would certainly have been the biggest community of working foreigners back then and are probably still significant in the business community but they would already be taxpayers under income tax regulations. I seriously doubt the Japanese figure significantly in the currently retiree population affected by this tax law change 

I realize you were referring to retirees and not Japanese expats working for Japanese companies in Thailand, but I had figured by now that quite a few of them had retired here too. Though it seems I was wrong and the foreign resident retiree figure you gave is nearly spot on, plus there was likely even some drop off during and after Covid. I just read the following:

 

As of 2021, approximately 52,040 foreigners were residing in Thailand on retirement visas, up from 10,709 in 2005. In 2018, Thailand issued nearly 80,000 retirement visas, marking a 30% increase from 2014, with British nationals making up a significant portion of these visas. A 2016 estimate indicated there were 68,300 foreigners over the age of 50 holding long-stay visas in Thailand, reflecting a 9% increase over the previous two years.

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, john donson said:

people that say they will not live here for 6 months, so you still pay rent here and elsewhere? sounds expensive and you don't have  a job, wife, kids here, that you can be away for months?

If worldwide income taxation ever goes into effect, then 6 months elsewhere may be beneficial for some.

 

I'd be looking at minimum US$10,000 tax liability to Thailand, each and every year.  Just two years of Thai tax payments would buy a decent condo in Cambodia.

 

With the current change in interpretation, we're putting off major purchases until we know how this will be implemented next year.  Now only bringing in savings within TEDA amount, spending down Thai bank accounts, and will get a couple more years use out of the Hilux with 400k on the clock.

[RSD1]

4 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

I'd be looking at minimum US$10,000 tax liability to Thailand, each and every year.  Just two years of Thai tax payments would buy a decent condo in Cambodia.

You can buy a decent condo in Cambodia for $20,000? I know this is off-topic, but what does that look like?

[CallumWK]

17 hours ago, RSD1 said:

 

Anyone who has a pink card already has a Thai TIN whether they like it or not. The 13 digit ID number on the pink card is also your TIN.

 No it isn't.

 

I have yellow book and pink card for about 10 years. I got a TIN about 5 years ago. Not the same number

[NoDisplayName]

50 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 No it isn't.

 

I have yellow book and pink card for about 10 years. I got a TIN about 5 years ago. Not the same number

 

I got my TIN in Bangkok in 2017, pink ID and ol' yeller in Korat last year.  Not the same numbers.  May have something to do with where issued, or perhaps tax and ID systems have been merged, so new issues will be the same number.

 

Earlier this year, visited my local district tax office because the online system no longer recognized my TIN.  Was told my pink ID number was now my tax ID.  My TIN was cancelled.

 

Was told to use pink ID number to file tax returns.  District office had to call the main provincial office to have the pink ID number activated for the online filing system.

 

YKMV

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, RSD1 said:

You can buy a decent condo in Cambodia for $20,000? I know this is off-topic, but what does that look like?

 

Sorry, I have no links, just what I recall from looking into condos a couple years ago.

 

What is found online appears to be mostly ridiculously overpriced luxury villa condo developments aimed at foreign buyers.

 

 

 

 

[pub2022]

OP, do you own a tax consultant business?

There's nothing like what you're talking about to be afraid of at the moment.

You are just scaremongering.

[khunPer]

Life-style as always, but have been spending a bit more of my savings this year for things that I want, but don't really need...😉

[bkk6060]

4 hours ago, ChumpChange said:

I've seen a few of the usual suspects and their posts talking about how they're not going to apply for a TIN or file a tax return until the hammer falls where they need to supply one to the Immigration department in order to extend their long-term visas and/or they get threatened with legal or criminal action by the local authorities. 

 

What I think this brazen minority is failing to understand is that the TRD could simply take a list of long-term residents from the Immigration department and then start knocking on the doors of the ones who haven't filed a tax return for 2-3 years. 

 

The TRD and the MOFA might even instruct Immigration not to extend their long-term visas again until they clear all their back taxes, together with interest and penalties. That could get really nasty. 

 

Probably not worth tempting fate because if they smell easy money from some low-hanging fruit, then they are pretty likely to go after it. So I wouldn't want to be in those shoes a couple of years from now. Basically, it sounds to me like the ones who plan to put their head in the sand and ignore the tax filing requirements really haven't thought things through too carefully. 

 

But if you prefer to live life by the seat of your pants as you age into your golden years, then go for it.

Could be, but the fact is we are almost at 2025, and there has been absolutely no instructions or communication between immigration and TRD regarding taxes.  And, my opinion is there never will be.

[bkk6060]

6 hours ago, ernji said:

 

If you ever visit Cambodia consider opening an account at a bank there, its really easy even on a tourist visa, then transfer money from your home country to the USD account (they will open you both a KHR and USD one) using a service such as Wise. Pull out the USD in cash and go to one of the many money changers over there to buy THB cash, from what I understand a lot of dirty money flows in that way so they are happy to sell that THB at a better rate than you will get in Thailand, then just bring it in here making sure you are under the limit that you have to declare to customs (currently USD $20,000 I think). Then you have THB cash here and Thailand has no record of it entering. I've done it twice already and it won't be the last time as its so close and not a bad place to visit. Just a thought.

So, you are recommending a tax evasion scheme?

Terrible, shame on you.

[ChumpChange]

6 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Could be, but the fact is we are almost at 2025, and there has been absolutely no instructions or communication between immigration and TRD regarding taxes.  And, my opinion is there never will be.

About 15 years ago, when I still had a work permit, I was called into the TRD office where they questioned me about some of the income I had reported on my annual tax return. The questions were not about the money itself, it was about if the income was legally earned within my work permit arrangement. If anything, those are questions that the labor department should be asking, not the TRD since they are merely the tax collectors. The point is, we don't really know what they're thinking, what they're planning or how much government departments liaise with each other. So I wouldn't assume anything.

[Airalee]

5 hours ago, RSD1 said:

Good and bad. Hard to generalize. Once somebody moves to Thailand full-time, they usually buy a vehicle or two, which is a large purchase and often carries large import duties. Some also buy condos. These are all large sums that go into the economy. In addition, people above the age of 50 may spend a lot more money on private healthcare in Thailand over the next 20 to 30 years. They may also leave a sizable inheritance to a younger Thai wife, which then also eventually gets spent within the Thai economy. 

Yup.  You’ve nailed quite a few things that the people who claim that the government doesn’t care about us because all the well heeled tourists will pick up the slack.

 

I won’t feel the need to keep my car.  Will be selling it when I return.  Already have unsolicited offers from Thai’s who want it as it’s a rare manual transmission convertible.

 

Why own a condo when I can just stay with my girlfriend at her condo?  I’ll sell that too.  At a loss of course, but right now, it’s dead money to me.  Already combing Redfin daily looking for a condo back in the US.

 

Already replaced one doctor from Thailand with another in Vietnam.

 

I won’t be “vacationing” in Thailand so beach hotels and restaurants will be replaced by ones in Vietnam.

 

The car/condo/bank account will be close to 10 million baht divested and moved out of Thailand. And my spending when I am there will drop substantially too because I won’t need to spend on goods and services that can be purchased elsewhere.

 

The retirees that don’t care probably aren’t going to be liable for any taxes so Thailand can fill their boots with the ones who pay agents 30k per year in order to extend their visa and then live on 30k/month.  
 

The ones who try to stay under the radar and hope that they aren’t pursued for taxes owed….well….wish in one hand and s#it in the other and see which fills up first.

 

Just wait until they try to hit foreigners up for property tax as was mentioned in another thread.

[Airalee]

3 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Sorry, I have no links, just what I recall from looking into condos a couple years ago.

 

What is found online appears to be mostly ridiculously overpriced luxury villa condo developments aimed at foreign buyers.

 

 

 

 

You can rent quite nice places also for far less than that $10,000 saved too.

[Airalee]

14 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

So, you are recommending a tax evasion scheme?

Terrible, shame on you.

All the people coming up with their cockamamie ways to evade taxes will eventually come to realize the old saying regarding “death and taxes”

 

Better to just leave for 6 months imho.

[helloagain]

On 12/18/2024 at 4:57 PM, BangkokBernie said:

Now that nearly a year has passed since the Thai government put a new law into affect that created a personal income tax on all cash transfers into Thailand which applies to all residents of Thailand, I’m curious how this change has affected your lifestyle and spending habits over the past year.

 

Have you found yourself reducing your spending in Thailand and/or canceling or indefinitely postponing any large purchases you were planning to make here?

 

Personally, while I’ve continued spending about the same amount, I’ve made a conscious decision to stop bringing significant sums of money into the country and to avoid keeping it in Thai banks. My Thai bank account balances have been steadily decreasing rather than staying stable or increasing. This approach, I think, isn’t achieving the taxation benefits the Thai government was hoping for. Instead, I’ve started using overseas debit cards for a lot of my spending here. While I understand that, technically, these transactions are also supposed to be reported to the Thai Revenue Department (TRD) and taxed, I’ll be honest, that’s not going to happen.

 

I’m struggling to see how this policy is a win for the Thai government. They aren’t going to collect any income tax from the money I spend in Thailand from my overseas savings, and, like many others, I’ve scaled back on transferring as much cash as possible into Thailand. The result is that they’re likely receiving less revenue from foreigners overall.

 

Maybe this policy benefits the TRD on Thai nationals earning money abroad and transferring it back home. But for foreigners, I think it’s far more likely to discourage spending and investment in the country. In fact, it already serves as a deterrent for retirees and potential long-term residents. If you don’t already have the ฿800,000 in a Thai bank account required for a retirement visa, who’s going to transfer that amount in (plus 20% more) and then lose 20% of it to taxes just to meet the visa requirement?

 

This feels like a long-term misstep for Thailand. Policies like this may discourage large purchases, property investments, and even retirement plans for foreigners who might otherwise bring significant amounts of money into the country.

 

The only way I see this policy working in Thailand’s favor is if it were limited to taxing Thai nationals on any overseas income they repatriate while leaving foreigners out of it. That way, foreigners could continue to spend freely, providing a big boost to the Thai economy.

Your wrong its not all cash transfers if you are retired.

[Airalee]

18 minutes ago, helloagain said:

Your wrong its not all cash transfers if you are retired.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I remember reading that it was the entirety of all global income and not just the amount remitted into Thailand.