Trump on Immigration: "We need a lot of people coming in."

[Yellowtail]

17 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

I replied to this quote of yours: 

 

Yes, I think illegals are farm workers, and the percentage of farm workers who are illegals is approximately 42 percent, according to the USDA in the link I provided. That shouldn't be too difficult to understand.

Sorry, I thought we disagreed, but we actually agree that a small percentage of illegal aliens are farm workers.  

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Sorry, I thought we disagreed, but we actually agree that a small percentage of illegal aliens are farm workers.  

First, define small. I know that if 42 percent of my income came from a certain source, I wouldn't think that was small. I doubt that an employer who had 42 percent of his workers being illegal aliens would call that a small number.

Second, in a way you may be right. There may well be a lot more illegal aliens working outside the agricultural industry than in it. The construction industry for one.

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

 

Actually, I don't even need to introduce a new quotation from Trump to negate your point. Here is the quote again:

"The H-1B program is neither high-skilled nor immigration: these are temporary foreign workers, imported from abroad, for the explicit purpose of substituting for American workers at lower pay. I remain totally committed to eliminating rampant, widespread H-1B abuse and ending outrageous practices such as those that occurred at Disney in Florida when Americans were forced to train their foreign replacements. I will end forever the use of the H-1B as a cheap labor program, and institute an absolute requirement to hire American workers first for every visa and immigration program."

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/statement-donald-j-trump-position-visas

 Ya think Trump believed that Disney was using agricultural visas to force its American gardeners to train foreign replacements? Not even Trump could be that benighted. 

 

Thanks for admitting you can't find a relevant quote.

 

So, yeah..........Trump in 2016 during the campaign, before he was even in the gubbermint, got confused about the myriad of visa programs.  He was running for office and was spending literally minutes every night with his advisors cramming, in between sending mean tweets.

 

How many expats equate visas with extensions, use the wrong terminology, get confused on O vs. O-A vs O-X visas?  And many of these oopsies were made by people who've been dealing with immigration for years.

 

Just a vegan nothingburger.

Do betta, yo!

[placeholder]

59 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

Let me guess: Kamala was the brightest and most worldly knowledgeable person that you ever saw.  

 

The challenge is that California universities are more interested in quotas. However, a kid in England who can outcode anyone in the U.S.> you are saying should not be able to get a job working for a top company in the U.S., that the U.S. does not want the best and the brightest working for American Companies.

 

You do not want the best and brightest professors teaching Americans how to build things or develop skills. 

 

You also realize that businesses can not just hire anyone. They have to qualify to hire a foreign person for the job by proving that an American can do it now.

 

https://www.boundless.com/immigration-resources/h-1b-occupation-list/ 

 

 

First off, what's with the irrelevant comment about Kamala? You just throwing stuff out and hoping something sticks?

And those elite universities you slam draw the best and brightest from around the world. 

 

Maybe you think coming up with a generic example constitutes some kind of valid evidence. And even then your example is a bad ones since brilliant programmers, engineers and researchers don't need H-1B visas to get into the United States. There are other visas for that. And maybe you're so infatuated with corporations that you believe that they won't try to save money any way they legally can.

 

How H-1B visas have been abused since the beginning

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-h-1b-visas-have-been-abused-since-the-beginning/

 

What's really funny about this is that enforcement of the H-1B visa program depends on government workers. The same workers that right wingers routinely malign. Or, magically, in this case are they the good guys ? The same workers That Elon Musk is now gunning for. Maybe you believe that Musk, a notoriously abusive employer,  is way too principled to let self-interest govern his decisions? It is to laugh.

 

[kingstonkid]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

First off, what's with the irrelevant comment about Kamala? You just throwing stuff out and hoping something sticks?

And those elite universities you slam draw the best and brightest from around the world. 

 

Maybe you think coming up with a generic example constitutes some kind of valid evidence. And even then your example is a bad ones since brilliant programmers, engineers and researchers don't need H-1B visas to get into the United States. There are other visas for that. And maybe you're so infatuated with corporations that you believe that they won't try to save money any way they legally can.

 

How H-1B visas have been abused since the beginning

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-h-1b-visas-have-been-abused-since-the-beginning/

 

What's really funny about this is that enforcement of the H-1B visa program depends on government workers. The same workers that right wingers routinely malign. Or, magically, in this case are they the good guys ? The same workers That Elon Musk is now gunning for. Maybe you believe that Musk, a notoriously abusive employer,  is way too principled to let self-interest govern his decisions? It is to laugh.

 

What visa are these professors coming in under

[goldenbrwn1]

Christ the usual useful idiots are at it already and he hasn’t even been inaugurated as President yet! 

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, CM Dad said:

As I said , sit down, take deep breaths and relax.  It's not grammar, "blaze" - it's correct spelling and correct use of language.

 

Don't be anti-semantic.

[Yellowtail]

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

First, define small. I know that if 42 percent of my income came from a certain source, I wouldn't think that was small.

So if your annual income was a dollar, you would not consider 42 cents small money, got it. 

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 

I doubt that an employer who had 42 percent of his workers being illegal aliens would call that a small number.

Second, in a way you may be right. There may well be a lot more illegal aliens working outside the agricultural industry than in it. The construction industry for one.

 

My claim was that a small percentage of illegal aliens are farm workers. Do you disagree with that? I think there are only a few million farm workers in the country, and I think about half a million of them are H-2A which means they are legal. 

 

 

[placeholder]

Just now, NoDisplayName said:

 

Thanks for admitting you can't find a relevant quote.

 

So, yeah..........Trump in 2016 during the campaign, before he was even in the gubbermint, got confused about the myriad of visa programs.  He was running for office and was spending literally minutes every night with his advisors cramming, in between sending mean tweets.

 

How many expats equate visas with extensions, use the wrong terminology, get confused on O vs. O-A vs O-X visas?  And many of these oopsies were made by people who've been dealing with immigration for years.

 

Just a vegan nothingburger.

Do betta, yo!

I see all you can offer is a denial without reasoning. Trump was clearly incensed by Disney firing workers. Are you really maintaining that he believed that these were agricultural laborers. 

And it's funny. First you declare that no other quotes are eligible to be cited, and now you claim that my argument is invalidated because I didn't cite them. 

Once again, explain to me how Trump believed that the workers Disney fired were agricultural laborers.

Anyway, even though it's unnecessary, here are some more quotes for you

 

"Many mothers across this country are worried their kids won't find jobs, and they are right to be worried. One of the biggest threats is outsourcing jobs for college-educated kids are being sent to other countries," the 70-year-old reality TV star told cheering supporters in Cincinnati, Ohio."

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/default-subsec/budget/donald-trump-vows-to-create-25-mn-jobs-for-americans-rakes-up-h-1b-visa-issue-again/articleshow/54850487.cms?from=mdr

"At the same time, companies are importing low-wage workers on H-1B visas to take jobs from young college-trained A ..

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/default-subsec/budget/donald-trump-vows-to-create-25-mn-jobs-for-americans-rakes-up-h-1b-visa-issue-again/articleshow/54850487.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

 

Trump has also vowed to end the H-1B visa program that allows US employers to employ foreign workers in speciality occupations for a period of time.

He said: “I know the H1-B very well.We shouldn’t have it, it’s very, very bad for workers.”

“It’s unfair to our workers and we should end it.”

https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/donald-trump-s-most-controversial-quotes-from-his-campaign-trail-116052700503_1.html

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, jas007 said:

Sometimes, they take an expansive view of things when it suits their purposes.  Seasonal fluctuations in milk production? I know nothing about the dairy business. 

 

Not limited to seasonal work, can also be agricultural work for up to one year.  There's also an H-2A "herder rule" for isolated or 24-hour on-call employment.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Not limited to seasonal work, can also be agricultural work for up to one year.  There's also an H-2A "herder rule" for isolated or 24-hour on-call employment.

Generally, US. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) grants H-2A classification for 10 months or less, at which time the worker returns to his or her home country. If the employer would like the worker to return for work the following year, the employer can request that USCIS renew the visa.

https://www.cgdev.org/sites/default/files/archive/doc/migration/H-2A_Fact_Sheet8.6.pdf

 

At World Dairy Expo in Madison, Wisconsin, on Thursday, a coalition of dairy farmers and advocacy groups, including the American Business Immigration Coalition, held a press conference to demand the passage of a Senate bill that would legalize the nation's immigrant agricultural workforce in year-round jobs.

By some estimates, 80% of the labor on Wisconsin dairy farms is now performed by immigrants. Most of them are undocumented, since there is no visa program for year-round low-skilled agricultural jobs. 

https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2022/10/07/dairy-farmers-demand-year-round-visa-for-immigrant-workers/#:~:text=At World Dairy Expo in,workforce in year-round jobs.

 

[placeholder]

19 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

What visa are these professors coming in under

Not necessarily professors although some may teach as part of their duties.

EB-2
A permanent visa that leads to a Green Card. It usually requires a job offer, but there is an exception for the NIW subcategory. 
EB-1
A first preference employment-based visa for foreign nationals who demonstrate extraordinary ability in their field. Qualifying areas include science, arts, education, business, or athletics. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+visas+do+highly+skilled+workers+get+to+work+in+the+usa&oq=what+visas+do+highly+skilled+workers+get+to+work+in+the+usa&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCTEyMTEzajBqNKgCALACAQ&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I see all you can offer is a denial without reasoning. Trump was clearly incensed by Disney firing workers. Are you really maintaining that he believed that these were agricultural laborers. 

And it's funny. First you declare that no other quotes are eligible to be cited, and now you claim that my argument is invalidated because I didn't cite them. 

Once again, explain to me how Trump believed that the workers Disney fired were agricultural laborers.

Anyway, even though it's unnecessary, here are some more quotes for you

 

"Many mothers across this country are worried their kids won't find jobs, and they are right to be worried. One of the biggest threats is outsourcing jobs for college-educated kids are being sent to other countries," the 70-year-old reality TV star told cheering supporters in Cincinnati, Ohio."

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/default-subsec/budget/donald-trump-vows-to-create-25-mn-jobs-for-americans-rakes-up-h-1b-visa-issue-again/articleshow/54850487.cms?from=mdr

"At the same time, companies are importing low-wage workers on H-1B visas to take jobs from young college-trained A ..

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/default-subsec/budget/donald-trump-vows-to-create-25-mn-jobs-for-americans-rakes-up-h-1b-visa-issue-again/articleshow/54850487.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

 

Trump has also vowed to end the H-1B visa program that allows US employers to employ foreign workers in speciality occupations for a period of time.

He said: “I know the H1-B very well.We shouldn’t have it, it’s very, very bad for workers.”

“It’s unfair to our workers and we should end it.”

https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/donald-trump-s-most-controversial-quotes-from-his-campaign-trail-116052700503_1.html

 

 

So are you for or against the H1-B program? 

Are you for or against illegal immigration? 

 

Or are you just all about attacking Trump? 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Generally, US. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) grants H-2A classification for 10 months or less, at which time the worker returns to his or her home country. If the employer would like the worker to return for work the following year, the employer can request that USCIS renew the visa.

https://www.cgdev.org/sites/default/files/archive/doc/migration/H-2A_Fact_Sheet8.6.pdf

 

At World Dairy Expo in Madison, Wisconsin, on Thursday, a coalition of dairy farmers and advocacy groups, including the American Business Immigration Coalition, held a press conference to demand the passage of a Senate bill that would legalize the nation's immigrant agricultural workforce in year-round jobs.

By some estimates, 80% of the labor on Wisconsin dairy farms is now performed by immigrants. Most of them are undocumented, since there is no visa program for year-round low-skilled agricultural jobs. 

https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2022/10/07/dairy-farmers-demand-year-round-visa-for-immigrant-workers/#:~:text=At World Dairy Expo in,workforce in year-round jobs.

 

I think people that hire illegals should be prosecuted, do you? 

[BangkokReady]

3 hours ago, Mavideol said:

are u saying all skilled immigrants/migrants are legal  🤔

 

The ones who have the H-1B visas presumably are.

[placeholder]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

So are you for or against the H1-B program? 

Are you for or against illegal immigration? 

 

Or are you just all about attacking Trump? 

As most economists have pointed out, illegal immigrants mostly do work Americans won't do. They are, in fact, vital to the American economy. So visas should be granted far more freely. Certainly the agriicultural, construction, and services industries think so. And unlike now, workers shouldn't be tied to one employer. That's why employers love the H-1B program as it now stands. Those workers can't look for jobs elsewhere. That goes double for abusive employers like Musk.

And, of course, if right wingers were serious about stopping illegal immigration, they would campaign to make it a felony to hire undocumented aliens. But they want to have their cake and eat it too. And so far, they're doing just that.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

As most economists have pointed out, illegal immigrants mostly do work Americans won't do. They are, in fact, vital to the American economy. So visas should be granted far more freely. Certainly the agriicultural, construction, and services industries think so. And unlike now, workers shouldn't be tied to one employer. That's why employers love the H-1B program as it now stands. Those workers can't look for jobs elsewhere. That goes double for abusive employers like Musk.

And, of course, if right wingers were serious about stopping illegal immigration, they would campaign to make it a felony to hire undocumented aliens. But they want to have their cake and eat it too. And so far, they're doing just that.

I did not ask what most economists think. I asked you:

Are you for or against the H1-B program? 

Are you for or against illegal immigration? 

 

Or are you just all about attacking Trump? 

 

I agree illegal immigration juices the economy and benefits a the rich, but I think it hurts the poor.  

 

 

 

 

 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I did not ask what most economists think. I asked you:

Are you for or against the H1-B program? 

Are you for or against illegal immigration? 

 

Or are you just all about attacking Trump? 

 

I agree illegal immigration juices the economy and benefits a the rich, but I think it hurts the poor.  

 

 

 

 

 

As the H-1B program now stands, I'm against it. 

Yes, given how inadequate the visa system currently is, I'm for illegal immigration. Without it the American economy would face severe economic problems. The fertility rate in American is well below replacement levels. Without immigration, legal and illegal, America's population would be a lot older and facing the same kind of problems that Europe and much of Asia, including China and Thailand, are facing.

As for it benefitting the rich...all those houses being built in texas and elsewhere aren't being built only for rich people.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

As the H-1B program now stands, I'm against it. 

So you agree with Trump and Musk, that that it needs changing. 

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Yes, given how inadequate the visa system currently is, I'm for illegal immigration. Without it the American economy would face severe economic problems. The fertility rate in American is well below replacement levels. Without immigration, legal and illegal, America's population would be a lot older and facing the same kind of problems that Europe and much of Asia, including China and Thailand, are facing.

I think only the rich would suffer economic "problems". I think the poor would benefit. 

 

Do you not think that if the fertility rate is the problem, would addressing the fertility rate not make more sense? 

 

 

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

As for it benefitting the rich...all those houses being built in texas and elsewhere aren't being built only for rich people.

They're not being building them for the homeless. 

[candide]

Some recent statistics about illegal aliens' employment

https://edworkforce.house.gov/uploadedfiles/9.13.23_camarota_testimony_help_subcommittee_hearing_on_open_borders_and_workforce.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjW7JHC59aKAxVPXWwGHShbCgoQFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0hBr7ePnu5LzZJ_UmDyZ6r

[Mavideol]

59 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

 

The ones who have the H-1B visas presumably are.

I like the "presumably" escape, well done...

[Mavideol]

21 minutes ago, candide said:

Some recent statistics about illegal aliens' employment

https://edworkforce.house.gov/uploadedfiles/9.13.23_camarota_testimony_help_subcommittee_hearing_on_open_borders_and_workforce.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjW7JHC59aKAxVPXWwGHShbCgoQFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0hBr7ePnu5LzZJ_UmDyZ6r

would like to see how many H1-B visa holders will be plastering, cleaning toilets, maids, working on the farms/agricultural, doing janitorial work,  etc. after the so called "undocumented" ones are send away or maybe the US citizens, mostly Trump MAGA supporters,  will be doing these types of jobs

[BangkokReady]

7 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

I like the "presumably" escape, well done...

 

Am I wrong in making that presumption?

[Mavideol]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Sorry, I thought we disagreed, but we actually agree that a small percentage of illegal aliens are farm workers.  

small or big percentage it's not important, they are still "illegal" but maybe you will be happy to do their job once they are sent away

[Mavideol]

1 minute ago, BangkokReady said:

 

Am I wrong in making that presumption?

you tell me !!!  "presumably" you could be right or "presumably" you could be wrong

 

[Yellowtail]

23 minutes ago, candide said:

Some recent statistics about illegal aliens' employment

https://edworkforce.house.gov/uploadedfiles/9.13.23_camarota_testimony_help_subcommittee_hearing_on_open_borders_and_workforce.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjW7JHC59aKAxVPXWwGHShbCgoQFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0hBr7ePnu5LzZJ_UmDyZ6r

So I was right, and only a small percentage of illegal aliens are farm workers, thanks! 

 

It's also worth noting that in every occupation, there are a lot of Americans that will do those jobs. So much for the claims of economists. 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

small or big percentage it's not important, they are still "illegal" but maybe you will be happy to do their job once they are sent away

Nothing is important but the continued leftward shift of the country, yes? 

[Mavideol]

3 hours ago, frank83628 said:

"Illegal"

have you ever thought about the people who work on the farms picking the stuff that you and I and many other eat on a daily basis, they are illegal, temporary workers that have been doing that job for generations and generations, they travel across the border on a regular basis, in and out, working  and treated like slaves working 20 or more hours a day for a 2-3 months, their great grand parents did it, these  jobs are passed from generation to generation, they never applied for legal status as it would be an harassment for them to do with all unnecessary paper work, the immigration knows them and close their or have been closing their eyes on that because they know how important they are for the US economy, maybe you are ready to take their place and do their job, are you??? if so, go ahead kick them out, but please don't come back complaining about how hard it is how expensive dairy products became.... I am sure u got the point

[BangkokReady]

9 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

you tell me !!!  "presumably" you could be right or "presumably" you could be wrong

 

I've told you already.  I presume that they are legal.  You seem to be disagreeing with that.  🤷‍♂️

 

If you're going to make a claim, at least have the decency back it up.  🙄

[Mavideol]

Just now, BangkokReady said:

 

I've told you already.  I presume that they are legal.  You seem to be disagreeing with that.  🤷‍♂️

 

If you're going to make a claim, at least have the decency back it up.  🙄

I didn't claim anything, barely asked you a question, but since you mention it, you did make a claim, do you have any back up data to support such claim