Revenue Department boss calls on tax residents in Thailand to file 2024 returns by March 31

[ronnie50]

Just now, chiang mai said:

Savings don't have to be from years gone by, only pre 31/12/23, according to POR 162

So what does that mean for remittances from money saved before that in a bank account arboad?

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, ronnie50 said:

So what does that mean for remittances from money saved before that in a bank account arboad?

Free of Thai tax, not Thai assessable.

[oldcpu]

I am thinking the article is mostly reporting on a quote of an RD official who was thinking of Thai citizen taxpapers.

 

The article makes no mention of the difference between Assessable and Not Assessable income.  Further the article refers to P.N.D. 90 and Form P.N.D. 91 forms ... and it would not surprise me if the Thai official made no specific mention of those forms, but possibly such was inserted by writer or editor of Siam Rath Online.

 

There is no mention of requirement for a TIN (where for Thai citizens their ID card # is automatically their TIN).

 

Frankly,  in regards to expatriates in Thailand, I don't think this adds anything more than what has already mostly been posted on this forum.

 

I still see aspects as to what is assessable, what is not assessable, and whether assessable tax exempt remitted foreign income requires a Thai tax return (where many on this forum believe (and could be correct) that no tax return required if assessable remitted income is tax exempt).  

 

My hope is that eventually we will obtain clarity on these aspects.

[ronnie50]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Free of Thai tax, not Thai assessable.

Thanks, that's what I thought. The whole thing is still nonsense because there's not really any real way to prove or disprove when the money was earned, is that right?

[proton]

Only not confused about one thing, I will not be paying this government any income tax, would rather leave

[chiang mai]

Just now, ronnie50 said:

Thanks, that's what I thought. The whole thing is still nonsense because there's not really any real way to prove or disprove when the money was earned, is that right?

It is YOU, the taxpayer, who files the tax return and must state whether the income you have declared is tax assessable or not, when it was earned and who MUST be able to prove what you say, if audited or required. So you better hope there's a way to prove it or you're in trouble.

 

https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

[ronnie50]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

It is YOU, the taxpayer, who files the tax return and must state whether the income you have declared is tax assessable or not, when it was earned and who MUST be able to prove what you say, if audited or required. So you better hope there's a way to prove it or you're in trouble.

 

https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

Yes I do understand these points. What I'm trying to say is assuming I had a USD 500k savings account slowly accumulating over 30  years (I don't), and I send USD 50k to Thailand in any tax year from that account, how do I judge if I'm sending freshly minted 50k, or 50k that I earned 10 years ago, was already taxed and was sitting in that account? This is largely rhetorical, as I don't think there is any clarity on this. Sure, I could show the bank statements if challenged. That doesn't answer if the money is new or old though... does it?

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, ronnie50 said:

Yes I do understand these points. What I'm trying to say is assuming I had a USD 500k savings account slowly accumulating over 30  years (I don't), and I send USD 50k to Thailand in any tax year from that account, how do I judge if I'm sending freshly minted 50k, or 50k that I earned 10 years ago, was already taxed and was sitting in that account? This is largely rhetorical, as I don't think there is any clarity on this. Sure, I could show the bank statements if challenged. That doesn't answer if the money is new or old though... does it?

What you describe is a commingled account where savings and income are fed into the same account and funds are then remitted. FIFO rules can be deployed to address the problem you describe but you need to have the paper work to support it. the funds first deposited into the account with FI (first In), FO or first out was the money you remitted...the newly minted 50k would only be relevant after the savings had been depleted.

[chiang mai]

Just now, Gobbler said:

Reeling in one fish at a time is the new motto.  No new law, no promulgation in the Royal Gazette yet the tuna are too eager to jump into the net.  

 

There is no new law that is needed hence, it doesn't have to published in the Gazette. POR 161 and POR 162 are reinterpretations of existings rules, they are internal procedures not laws.

[Gobbler]

Just now, chiang mai said:

There is no new law that is needed hence, it doesn't have to published in the Gazette. POR 161 and POR 162 are reinterpretations of existings rules, they are internal procedures not laws.

It will be challenged in court. 

[oldcpu]

36 minutes ago, ronnie50 said:

Yes I do understand these points. What I'm trying to say is assuming I had a USD 500k savings account slowly accumulating over 30  years (I don't), and I send USD 50k to Thailand in any tax year from that account, how do I judge if I'm sending freshly minted 50k, or 50k that I earned 10 years ago, was already taxed and was sitting in that account? This is largely rhetorical, as I don't think there is any clarity on this. Sure, I could show the bank statements if challenged. That doesn't answer if the money is new or old though... does it?

 

What I plan to do is keep a record (in a spreadsheet - call this spreadsheet-1) of my foreign savings as of end-of-business on 31-Dec-2023. 

 

I also plan to keep a separate record (in a separate spreadsheet - call this spreadsheet-2) of any foreign income after 31-Dec-2023.  I will deduct any withdrawals NOT brought into Thailand from spreadsheet-2. Only if spreadsheet-2 is about to go 'negative' will I deduct the remaining withdrawal money (not brought into Thailand) from spreadhseet-1.

 

And any money I bring into Thailand I will always deduct from Spreadsheet-1. 

 

The idea here to undo the 'commingled' aspects best possible via an accounting method - to prove all money brought into Thailand was before 1-Jan-2024.

 

Ideal?  No.  But that is my plan (although it may be totally unnecessary for me given I am on an LTR visa).

[chiang mai]

Just now, Gobbler said:

It will be challenged in court. 

It hasn't been for the past year but if you say so. Sounds like you probably shouldn't file, I mean, what have you got to loose! 

[Gobbler]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

they are internal procedures not laws.

 

People follow laws, not procedures. Perhaps we are already in Phase II

[chiang mai]

Just now, Gobbler said:

 

People follow laws, not procedures. Perhaps we are already in Phase II

Nonsense. I've tried to explain it to you, it's your prerogative to ignore it. Bye.

[Gobbler]

Just now, chiang mai said:

It hasn't been for the past year but if you say so. Sounds like you probably shouldn't file, I mean, what have you got to loose! 

 

I don't bring any taxable income to Thailand.  As a generous philanthropist, I gift money to Thais, which is not taxable. 

 

 

[Sandboxer]

I assume funds remitted from my overseas account to my Thai gf's Kasikorn account are included in the total declarable remittance amount? Ot just funds I send from overseas to my own Thai account?

[Gobbler]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

It hasn't been for the past year but if you say so. Sounds like you probably shouldn't file, I mean, what have you got to loose! 

It will take one expat with the means to pay for the lawyers to bring suit as the damaged party. 

 

It will happen.

[Gobbler]

Just now, Sandboxer said:

I assume funds remitted from my overseas account to my Thai gf's Kasikorn account are included in the total declarable remittance amount? Ot just funds I send from overseas to my own Thai account?

Better to a family member.

[Sandboxer]

2 minutes ago, Gobbler said:

I don't bring any taxable income to Thailand.  As a generous philanthropist, I gift money to Thais, which is not taxable. 

Don't think it works that way, but worth asking the experts for a confirmation.

[chiang mai]

30 minutes ago, Sandboxer said:

I assume funds remitted from my overseas account to my Thai gf's Kasikorn account are included in the total declarable remittance amount? Ot just funds I send from overseas to my own Thai account?

Funds remitted to third parties are potentially assessable on the sender, so yes, funds sent my you to your girlfriend need to be accounted for by you.

[Sandboxer]

1 minute ago, Gobbler said:

Better to a family member.

 

Yea, I'm not gonna marry one of these people to dodge tax 555.

[Gobbler]

Just now, Sandboxer said:

 

Yea, I'm not gonna marry one of these people to dodge tax 555.

 

It's not dodging if you are married or if it is sent to a child. 

 

[Gobbler]

My child has a Thai account that is not associated with the USA or any country other than Thailand.  I sold some gold and upon trying to deposit it into my account and getting asked for my passport and which country I come from, I just had my son deposit the cash.  No questions were asked.

[Gobbler]

My son pays all the bills. I'm too feeble-minded to handle such a task, or so I was told.  I have a few thousand baht in my account. I am a pauper.  When I die, my son has it all. I don't want him going through the grief (save it for me) of trying to get money from the bank.  He has it now.

 

He keeps the gold, too.

 

I have found when I ask him to pay for something, that he does inquire now why the money needs to be spent at all. 

 

That was an added bonus.

[oldcpu]

1 minute ago, Gobbler said:

My son pays all the bills. I'm too feeble-minded to handle such a task, or so I was told.  I have a few thousand baht in my account. I am a pauper.  When I die, my son has it all. I don't want him going through the grief (save it for me) of trying to get money from the bank.  He has it now.

 

He keeps the gold, too.

 

I have found when I ask him to pay for something, that he does inquire now why the money needs to be spent at all. 

 

That was an added bonus.

 

I read the issue with this approach is if your son uses the money you gift him, to pay for your food and your accommodations, and your automobile (and any aspects other of your Thailand lifestyle) then that gift of remitted money is not a tax exemption, it is then assessable, and Thailand tax may be due on that dependent on when the income came (timewise), and dependent on any DTA with the source country.

 

However I am NO tax expert. That is just what I read.  I could be wrong.

[chiang mai]

12 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

I read the issue with this approach is if your son uses the money you gift him, to pay for your food and your accommodations, and your automobile (and any aspects other of your Thailand lifestyle) then that gift of remitted money is not a tax exemption, it is then assessable, and Thailand tax may be due on that dependent on when the income came (timewise), and dependent on any DTA with the source country.

 

However I am NO tax expert. That is just what I read.  I could be wrong.

That is correct. Gifters must not benefit from gifts made to others.

[Gobbler]

This will become another reason to use an agent, bypassing all this nonsense. 

[NoDisplayName]

13 hours ago, anchadian said:

New tax rules require filing electronically, with possible refunds for early submissions.

 

That's a strange way of saying what exactly?

 

If due a refund, doesn't matter when you file.

 

I filed 2021, 2022, 2023 returns 'bout six months ago.  All filed late.  All received refunds.

[Captain Flack]

A number of troll posts have been removed.

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

I wouldn't worry too much about this, it looks like a classic case of misinterpretation by the writer.

 

Look at the publication in which the article appeared (Thai Examiner). Look at the author (Joseph O'Connor) and his past articles.On that basis consider whether this is a credible organization or a credible writer.I know what I think.