400.000 Baht disappeared, a story of BKK Bank, SCB and Advice IT

[Carsten07]

Just before Christmas the phone SMS beeped and 400.500 were gone, transferred To Advice IT, the

largest Online seller for PC Equipment. Within the hour another 21.000 were gone, i had two accounts under the Internet banking Log On.

SMS came and E Mail as well, so i thought that can't be too difficult to retrieve the money.

Advice confirmed these two amounts but were reluctant to transfer it back.

 

BKK Bank, were the money originated suggested to contact Advice. We did, and warned them to not send out anything as it was paid with stolen money.

 

Then the usual runaround started, police report, contacting the banks (SCB is the receiving bank for Advice) etc.

 

Advice never called back, not me and not the police. And never answered any letter send to them by police. Strange.

 

Tomorrow i will go again to let the police request the log file, (who logged into my account and initiated the transfer). And ask Advice who placed such a large order.

 

 

Its an ongoing investigation, i will keep you up when news arrive but so far: Don't leave a large amount in your account which is accessible via Browser (Internet Banking) or App (Your phone).

 

About Advice, holding stolen money - no comment.

[BritManToo]

How did they overcome the 50kbht electronic transaction limit on foreigner accounts?

BKB, I have to go to the branch in person for more than 50k in a day.

[UWEB]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

How did they overcome the 50kbht electronic transaction limit on foreigner accounts?

BKB, I have to go to the branch in person for more than 50k in a day.

BBL Onlinebanking Limit is 500K, you can set the Limit from 0 to 500k by yourself. You can apply also for a higher Limit up to 2.000.000 a day in your Branch.

[Carsten07]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

How did they overcome the 50kbht electronic transaction limit on foreigner accounts?

BKB, I have to go to the branch in person for more than 50k in a day.

I set the limit up to 500K because when i die my wife can get the money via transfer or ATM.

Online banking requires no Photo and limits can be set at will.

[Carsten07]

I start thinking that phone banking is safer.

Who would have thought that..

[Ralf001]

7 minutes ago, UWEB said:

BBL Onlinebanking Limit is 500K, you can set the Limit from 0 to 500k by yourself. You can apply also for a higher Limit up to 2.000.000 a day in your Branch.

 

it is up to 500k if you set it at that.... I have not and my daily is the account limit as set up....50k.

[Celsius]

it's a police matter. Advice will not talk to you.

[KannikaP]

6 minutes ago, Carsten07 said:

I set the limit up to 500K because when i die my wife can get the money via transfer or ATM.

Online banking requires no Photo and limits can be set at will.

That is illegal until Probate has been sorted out, unless it is a joint account.

[Lacessit]

30 minutes ago, Carsten07 said:

Just before Christmas the phone SMS beeped and 400.500 were gone, transferred To Advice IT, the

largest Online seller for PC Equipment. Within the hour another 21.000 were gone, i had two accounts under the Internet banking Log On.

SMS came and E Mail as well, so i thought that can't be too difficult to retrieve the money.

Advice confirmed these two amounts but were reluctant to transfer it back.

 

BKK Bank, were the money originated suggested to contact Advice. We did, and warned them to not send out anything as it was paid with stolen money.

 

Then the usual runaround started, police report, contacting the banks (SCB is the receiving bank for Advice) etc.

 

Advice never called back, not me and not the police. And never answered any letter send to them by police. Strange.

 

Tomorrow i will go again to let the police request the log file, (who logged into my account and initiated the transfer). And ask Advice who placed such a large order.

 

 

Its an ongoing investigation, i will keep you up when news arrive but so far: Don't leave a large amount in your account which is accessible via Browser (Internet Banking) or App (Your phone).

 

About Advice, holding stolen money - no comment.

Unless you have a business relationship with Advice IT, I don't understand how they can access your account and withdraw money. 

 

Do you order equipment from them regularly?

 

It sounds like Advice IT has been hacked by an outside agency.

[The Fugitive]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Unless you have a business relationship with Advice IT, I don't understand how they can access your account and withdraw money. 

 

Do you order equipment from them regularly?

 

It sounds like Advice IT has been hacked by an outside agency.

My AliExpress account was hacked. I had a stored credit card. The hacker ordered goods and changed the delivery address to Moldova. 

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, The Fugitive said:

My AliExpress account was hacked. I had a stored credit card. The hacker ordered goods and changed the delivery address to Moldova. 

The only debit card I have registered online is with Lazada.

 

Should I be worried?

[CharlieH]

Is it possible your phone has been cloned ?

Or your card been skimmed ?

 

Just a possibility.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, CharlieH said:

Is it possible your phone has been cloned ?

Or your card been skimmed ?

 

Just a possibility.

How does one clone a phone?

 

I understand skimming, my cards are in a Faraday cage.

[Carsten07]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Unless you have a business relationship with Advice IT, I don't understand how they can access your account and withdraw money. 

 

Do you order equipment from them regularly?

 

It sounds like Advice IT has been hacked by an outside agency.

 

When you order from Advice they transfer you to your Online banking webpage. So they have no access to your account, unlike Lazada for example.

After payment you must send them a screenshot of payment with the order number.

 

And No, they have not been hacked from outside. They confirmed the money incoming and were happy about not sending out some merchandise. They refuse to return the stolen money, sit tight and wait for the storm to whither and keep the cash. Bad.

[Carsten07]

3 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Is it possible your phone has been cloned ?

Or your card been skimmed ?

 

Just a possibility.

No.

 

Was done via Online banking = Browser.

No Card, no app.

[Carsten07]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The only debit card I have registered online is with Lazada.

 

Should I be worried?

No. Lazada is cool and on the buyers side.

 

AliExpress also.

[CharlieH]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

How does one clone a phone?

 

I understand skimming, my cards are in a Faraday cage.

If the phone has wi-fi open or Bluetooth open, it can be hacked and copied just like any computer.

 

Particularly if you are using a free Wi-Fi in a coffee shop, hotel etc.

[Carsten07]

9 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

My AliExpress account was hacked. I had a stored credit card. The hacker ordered goods and changed the delivery address to Moldova. 

Happened to me also. Ali refunded immediately and i took the card off their system.

Now i put in the numbers for each purchase and leave nothing with them. Was a small amount anyway..

[Carsten07]

2 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

If the phone has wi-fi open or Bluetooth open, it can be hacked and copied just like any computer.

That might be but i dont have the phone app on my phone, and no passwords anyway.

[Lacessit]

Just now, CharlieH said:

If the phone has wi-fi open or Bluetooth open, it can be hacked and copied just like any computer.

Thanks. All the more reason to avoid putting banking apps on my phone.

 

Too many thieves nowadays, perhaps we should revert to amputation of the right hand.

 

 

[Carsten07]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Thanks. All the more reason to avoid putting banking apps on my phone.

 

Too many thieves nowadays, perhaps we should revert to amputation of the right hand.

 

 

 

Well, its digital now but i agree with your comment.

 

What i find hard to believe is that a large company, listed on the stock market, has 340+ Outlet stores refuses to refund stolen money.

There is something ethically wrong in the heads of the responsible persons!

Plus its illegal in Thailand to keep money that arrived by whatever reasons in your account incorrectly.

[RSD1]

1 hour ago, Carsten07 said:

Just before Christmas the phone SMS beeped and 400.500 were gone, transferred To Advice IT, the

largest Online seller for PC Equipment. Within the hour another 21.000 were gone, i had two accounts under the Internet banking Log On.

SMS came and E Mail as well, so i thought that can't be too difficult to retrieve the money.

Advice confirmed these two amounts but were reluctant to transfer it back.

 

Lower daily transfer limits could have clearly prevented this type of fraud, as others have already pointed out. Additionally, your current setup isn’t ideal for ensuring your wife has access to funds in the event of your death. You should consider setting up a separate legal structure for that, as your current arrangement increases your exposure to fraud, as you’ve unfortunately discovered.

 

A better general solution is to set up two bank accounts in Thailand at different banks. Use one account solely for savings. This account should have no ATM card, and the daily transfer limits should be set to zero. This is where you store the bulk of your money. UOB is a great option for this purpose because their banking security is stronger than that of most local banks. They also offer free life insurance and a guaranteed payout to your wife in the event of accidental death. Use the second account for daily spending, which can be with BBL, SCB, KBank, or any bank you prefer.

 

Once a month, transfer the amount needed for daily living expenses from the main savings account to the spending account. For added protection, set the daily transfer limit, ATM withdrawal limit, and debit card payment limit on the spending account as low as possible to minimize potential losses in case of fraud.

 

By implementing this system, even if the spending account is compromised, the financial impact will be minimal, and the main savings account will remain secure, especially if you use UOB. These precautions will make it significantly harder to fall victim to the type of fraud you experienced.

[RSD1]

36 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

My AliExpress account was hacked. I had a stored credit card. The hacker ordered goods and changed the delivery address to Moldova. 

 

This issue can be easily avoided by using a service provider like Wise, which offers additional digital debit cards for free, or one of the many other providers that also offers comparable features. With a digital card, you can designate it solely for online purchases and lock it in the app when not in use.

 

If the system where your card information is stored is ever hacked, the locked card ensures that no unauthorized charges can be made. My method is to unlock the digital card temporarily in the app just before making a purchase and then lock it again immediately after the online purchase is complete, which usually only takes seconds. 

 

This method provides better security and peace of mind, as even if someone obtains your card information, it cannot be used 99% of the time while the card remains locked.

 

[Tropicalevo]

57 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

That is illegal until Probate has been sorted out, unless it is a joint account.

I asked my lawyer that question when my wife died.

 

We had just sold a property and the money was in her account.

So I transferred 500,000 baht every two days until it was back in my account.

Told the lawyer, he said 'do not worry, everybody does it. Only tell the bank after probate.'

(The will was invalid - we had just sold the property and needed to change it.)

[The Fugitive]

27 minutes ago, Carsten07 said:

Happened to me also. Ali refunded immediately and i took the card off their system.

Now i put in the numbers for each purchase and leave nothing with them. Was a small amount anyway.

They only got goods worth $6 USD out of me. I noticed too late to stop the initial (trial?) transaction. The next order they made was too big for the Chinese shop to handle so they declined it! I cancelled my credit card and my bank refunded the six dollars. 

[Tropicalevo]

37 minutes ago, Carsten07 said:

No.

 

Was done via Online banking = Browser.

No Card, no app.

 

My on-line banking (Bank of Ayudhya) sends a OTP to my phone which is registered with them.

Money cannot be transferred without that password.

Three false attempts and the transaction is stopped.

 

Who do you bank with?

[The Fugitive]

46 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The only debit card I have registered online is with Lazada.

 

Should I be worried?

Not really. Best not to store any card details if you can avoid it. Just my opinion based upon my own experience.

[Tropicalevo]

19 minutes ago, RSD1 said:

This account should have no ATM card, and the daily transfer limits should be set to zero.

 

19 minutes ago, RSD1 said:

Once a month, transfer the amount needed for daily living expenses from the main savings account to the spending account.

 

So, you have to go the bank every month in order to do a manual transfer?

No thanks.

[Carsten07]

5 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

 

My on-line banking (Bank of Ayudhya) sends a OTP to my phone which is registered with them.

Money cannot be transferred without that password.

Three false attempts and the transaction is stopped.

 

Who do you bank with?

I bank with BKK Bank, as is clearly written in the OP.

 

With BKK Bank you have three transfers, once you registered that account, after that any transfer goes without OTP anymore.

Clearly not very good.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, UWEB said:

BBL Onlinebanking Limit is 500K, you can set the Limit from 0 to 500k by yourself. You can apply also for a higher Limit up to 2.000.000 a day in your Branch.

In early 2023 they limited phone app transfers to 50kbht/day for all foreigner accounts, unless you changed that at your branch.

Online, atm and in person transfers are different.

 

The op says internet banking, which has no such restriction.

I didn't read the op carefully enough, so my bad.