Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[The Cyclist]

3 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

That is not exclusive.

 

Time for you to look that word up in the dictionary.

 

Again, you miss the point by the length of the Mackenzie River.

 

Well done you.

[oldcpu]

2 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

What I am telling you is that exclusive taxation rights clause does not exempt anyone from complying with a Countries tax Law, if they are tax resident of that Country.

 

 

Typically a DTA will refer to a specific type of income (such as a pension) and if that pension is noted in the DTA to be exclusively taxed by the source country-A, where the individual is a resident of country-B, then country-B as a signature to that DTA is not to tax that pension.

 

I have been very careful to make posts correct in regards to Thai law.  For example I pointed out Royal Decree-18 (ie relevant to Thai law) notes some foreign income in a DTA can be tax exempt.  And you DENIED such, stating only pre-1-Jan-2024 income can be taxable.

 

You made a mistake in stating that (claiming only pre-1-Jan-2024 remitted foreign income is exempt) when other income may also be exempt per Royal Decree.  Its time you admitted your mistake.

 

This is all in accordance with Thai law that you are ignoring. You have posted something that is contrary to Thai law (re: exempt foreign income).

[anrcaccount]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

2 hours ago, oldcpu said:

(a) do not include any civil service pension nor military pension in your Thai tax return if it is exclusively taxed in the UK

 

Because I believe that the Tax Consultant, from Siam Legal, completely destroys that myth.

 

Although to be fair, he uses US Social Security ( And not UK Government Pensions ) as his example.

 

However, the same principle must apply to all sources of income that come under the  Exclusive Taxation Rights clause.

 

Providing one is a tax resident, and the money is dispersed and remitted from the 01 Jan 2024.

 

I see nothing in the Siam Legal video that states that US Social Security needs to be included/declared in a Thai tax return. Where do you get that from the video?

 

Multiple sources have clearly stated US Social Security does NOT need to be declared on a Thai tax return.

 

You're almost as bad as Lister, the way you keep going on, with a complete inability to admit where you're incorrect.

 

If US Social Security was required to be declared, it would have been required last year, and the 10 years before that. The POR/PAW updates do not change that, many people were remitting it directly. 

[redwood1]

7 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I believe that the Revenue Department has.

 

It goes along the lines of, as a tax resident, if you earn income in 2024 and remit it to Thailand in 2024 it is assessable income for tax purposes.

 

The Thai Guy, a tax Consultant, reiterates that.

 

Perhaps you could explain where a DTA, exempts anyone, from filing a tax return, in a Country where they are resident for tax purposes ?
 

Or perhaps you would like to revert back to the mantra of, a DTA says my income is non assessable in Thailand for tax purposes. 

 

Only it doesn't. As the Thai guy, who is a Tax Consultant, reiterates.

 

Sir you are full of it......Most Thais have never filed a tax return in their life...And they sure as heck are not going to start filing in 2025...

 

It as clear as day........If you dont owe taxes YOU DO NOT NEED TO FILE...

 

Thai or farang.....Same Same...

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

Look what he says about US Social Security. Posted 2 days ago, so is the most up to date that we have.

Nothing he says about US Social Security supports your assertions.

[KhunHeineken]

26 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

I'm sorted now well in my mind I am, tax office said " no point doing a tax return when you don't need to pay any tax" I've got two UK government pensions which can only be taxed once and in the UK, Tesco pension is so small it falls below the need to pay any tax, what thay have said is good enough for me.

How will they know your remitted funds are not assessable, or covered by a DTA?

 

What if you have to produce a certificate of clearance at extension time?  You would need to file, and pay zero tax, in order to get the certificate to clear with the TRD that your funds are not taxable in Thailand. 

[The Cyclist]

5 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

I see nothing in the Siam Legal video that states that US Social Security needs to be included/declared in a Thai tax return. Where do you get that from the video?

 

Start at 3 minutes - What is assessable income

 

Through 4 minutes DTA's onto 4.39 US Social Security

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mNdXpvY1GQ

 

You must be blind and deaf.

 

So not much point in giving you this, even if you could read it, I doubt that you would understand it

 

https://www.pwc.com/th/en/tax/assets/thai-tax/thai-tax-booklet-2024-25.pdf

 

 

 

[The Cyclist]

3 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Nothing he says about US Social Security supports your assertions.

 

Not my assertion its his. US Social Security is assessable income if you are a tax resident, it is issued in 2024 and remitted in 2024.

 

Told you 3 times, phone him and tell him he is wrong. Record the conversation and post it on here when he rips you a new one.

[Sandboxer]

On 1/16/2025 at 4:39 PM, Card said:

You bring in foreign currency in your baggage? Where will u exchange it in thailand? Forex dealings require your passport.

Easy. Send the wife and girlfriends to the money exchangers, and park the money in their accounts or under your mango tree.

[Badrabbit]

6 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

How will they know your remitted funds are not assessable, or covered by a DTA?

 

What if you have to produce a certificate of clearance at extension time?  You would need to file, and pay zero tax, in order to get the certificate to clear with the TRD that your funds are not taxable in Thailand. 

I am so fed up with all this tax talk, I don't need to pay tax, been to my tax office 3 or 4 times they must be getting fed up with me, my next extension is Oct, I'm not worrying any more.

DTA UK/Thailand, 

[KhunHeineken]

1 minute ago, Badrabbit said:

I don't need to pay tax,

I know, no one suggested that you had to, however, you MAY need to produce a certificate of clearance from the TRD for your extension. 

 

Don't confuse paying tax with the possible need for the certificate at extension time. 

 

3 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

been to my tax office 3 or 4 times they must be getting fed up with me,

I wonder if you would get the same information from another TRD office. 

 

3 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

my next extension is Oct, I'm not worrying any more

You are in an interesting position. 

 

The deadline is 31st March.  You will do nothing. 

 

Your extension is October 2025. 

 

If we start reading that immigration require a certificate of clearance for extensions, what happens if you file after the 31st March, but have no tax to pay?  Surely you can't be fined if you have no tax to pay.   

[JimGant]

10 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Not my assertion its his. US Social Security is assessable income if you are a tax resident, it is issued in 2024 and remitted in 2024.

 

Told you 3 times, phone him and tell him he is wrong. Record the conversation and post it on here when he rips you a new one

Your nuts! He uses US Social Security as an example of exclusive income, per DTA, taxable only in the US. Yes, he at first says it's "assessable income" -- but then says, per the DTA, it is, because of the exclusive language in the DTA, taxable only in the US. Thus, IPSO FACTO, it is non assessable income for Thai taxation purposes.

 

 

[anrcaccount]

22 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

33 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

I see nothing in the Siam Legal video that states that US Social Security needs to be included/declared in a Thai tax return. Where do you get that from the video?

 

Start at 3 minutes - What is assessable income

 

Through 4 minutes DTA's onto 4.39 US Social Security

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mNdXpvY1GQ

 

You must be blind and deaf.

 

What he says is:

 

"to give an example US Social security payments is assessable income from work duties abroad, so if you receive it during the year in which you are resident of Thailand, and you transfer it to your Thai bank account, generally you would have been taxed on that under the residence rule.

 

HOWEVER, according to the DTA between Thailand and the US, Social Security payments is taxable only in the countries of the payer. Because this is paid from the US, then it is taxable only in the US, in other words it's not taxable in Thailand." 
 

So, where do you get from this, that this needs be declared on a Thai tax return?

 

He doesn't state that.  

 

22 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

So not much point in giving you this, even if you could read it, I doubt that you would understand it

 

https://www.pwc.com/th/en/tax/assets/thai-tax/thai-tax-booklet-2024-25.pdf

 

Nothing in this document refers to US Social Security being required to be declared in a Thai tax return. 

[The Cyclist]

3 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Yes, he at first says it's "assessable income" -- but then says, per the DTA, it is, because of the exclusive language in the DTA, taxable only in the US.

 

Correct

 

So if its assessable t needs filing

 

3 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Thus, IPSO FACTO, it is non assessable income for Thai taxation purposes.

 

Thus IPSO FACTO - Not taxable in Thailand due to DTA.

 

Try and get your head around the fact that something can be both assessable and not taxable.

 

" It's all kosher Guv, honest " isn't going to wash.

[Badrabbit]

34 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I know, no one suggested that you had to, however, you MAY need to produce a certificate of clearance from the TRD for your extension. 

 

Don't confuse paying tax with the possible need for the certificate at extension time. 

 

I wonder if you would get the same information from another TRD office. 

 

You are in an interesting position. 

 

The deadline is 31st March.  You will do nothing. 

 

Your extension is October 2025. 

 

If we start reading that immigration require a certificate of clearance for extensions, what happens if you file after the 31st March, but have no tax to pay?  Surely you can't be fined if you have no tax to pay.   

My tax office will not give me a clearence certificate, thay will not give me a TIN number, thay said "you don't need to file"

Thay agreed my london fire brigade pension is not taxable in Thailand the same with my State pension, my Tesco pension is not enough to be taxed.

My State Pension is 24,000bht my Tesco is 1,800bht per month, I'm 68 thay discussed this and said " you won't need to pay tax"

Thay said "if you should have a problem get them to call here"

This is all ridiculous, I've done as much as I'm prepared to do.

[The Cyclist]

6 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

What he says is:

 

See post above to gant.

 

It is assessable income - File a tax return.

 

It is not taxable -  Due to DTA.

 

A DTA does not exempt / give a free pass / excuse anyone, from complying with a Countries Tax Law.

 

Quote

Nothing in this document refers to US Social Security being required to be declared in a Thai tax return. 

 

I never said it did. What it does say right at the end of the massive spiel, right before you hit DTA's is

 

Quote

The above taxes may be reduced or exempt under DTA's.

 

And I'm still going with, for taxes to be reduced or exempt, they first need to be declared.

[redwood1]

17 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I know, no one suggested that you had to, however, you MAY need to produce a certificate of clearance from the TRD for your extension. 

 

Don't confuse paying tax with the possible need for the certificate at extension time. 

 

I wonder if you would get the same information from another TRD office. 

 

You are in an interesting position. 

 

The deadline is 31st March.  You will do nothing. 

 

Your extension is October 2025. 

 

If we start reading that immigration require a certificate of clearance for extensions, what happens if you file after the 31st March, but have no tax to pay?  Surely you can't be fined if you have no tax to pay.   

 

Khun give it a rest......We are bored with your, what if at visa renewal time threat, repeatedly...

 

Others nationalities are miles behind on keeping up with any of this...I sure have not noticed any self proclaimed tax gurus making you tube videos in Chinese Russian or Indian

[0ffshore360]

33 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Start at 3 minutes - What is assessable income

 

Through 4 minutes DTA's onto 4.39 US Social Security

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mNdXpvY1GQ

 

You must be blind and deaf.

 

So not much point in giving you this, even if you could read it, I doubt that you would understand it

 

https://www.pwc.com/th/en/tax/assets/thai-tax/thai-tax-booklet-2024-25.pdf

 

 

 

Do you  or are you a retired person with a vested interest in convincing potential dupes into feathering a cowbird  nest ?

[The Cyclist]

Just now, 0ffshore360 said:

Do you  or are you a retired person with a vested interest in convincing potential dupes into feathering a cowbird  nest ?

 

As I have posed videos from the ranty American / Thai guy, the brit guy and the Thai Guy. No, I do not represent, or have any interest in any of them

[JimGant]

8 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Try and get your head around the fact that something can be both assessable and not taxable.

Geez, we've been over that ad nauseam:

-- Assessable income = taxable income

-- Not assessable income = non assessable income

-- Non assessable income = not taxable income

-- Not taxable income = exempt income

-- The Cyclist = screw loose

[The Cyclist]

7 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Geez, we've been over that ad nauseam:

-- Assessable income = taxable income

-- Not assessable income = non assessable income

-- Non assessable income = not taxable income

-- Not taxable income = exempt income

-- The Cyclist = screw loose

 

Geez, and you are still thick as mince and are nothing more than an internet pixel.

 

Did you phone the Thai guy yet and put him right ?
 

Let me know when you do.

 

 

[0ffshore360]

2 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

As I have posed videos from the ranty American / Thai guy, the brit guy and the Thai Guy. No, I do not represent, or have any interest in any of them

Then why not rest quiet until reality  reveals ?

Do you actually think Thai Revenue people have primary interest in funds derived from offshore via indirect financial platforms ? To differentiate  pre-taxed State  pension funds from private equity ?

Or at end of day the more identifiable possibly  direct income for  those residing  more than 185 days in Thailand ?

 

 

 

[The Cyclist]

3 minutes ago, 0ffshore360 said:

Then why not rest quiet until reality  reveals ?

 

I believe reality has revealed

 

There are some that are in denial and terrified that they might have to file a tax return

 

Cannot think why, unless they are hiding something, or from something.

[0ffshore360]

5 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I believe reality has revealed

 

There are some that are in denial and terrified that they might have to file a tax return

 

Cannot think why, unless they are hiding something, or from something.

I apologize in that case.

I was under the impression you  advocated conformance to the mob mentality of submission .

[The Cyclist]

9 minutes ago, 0ffshore360 said:

I was under the impression you  advocated conformance to the mob mentality of submission .

 

I advocate complying ( No matter how much I Agree or disagree with them ) with the rules in Thailand.

 

Not looking for obscure wording to try and avoid those rules.

[anrcaccount]

52 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

And I'm still going with, for taxes to be reduced or exempt, they first need to be declared.

 

No, incorrect, exempt is no need to declare. Let's add to the list:

 

• Gifts remitted, exempt, no need to declare unless over 20M THB. 
• Income remitted that is exempt under DTA, no need to declare. 
• Pre 2024 income remitted, exempt, no need to declare. 
• Remittance of proceeds of assets sold at cost or a loss, exempt, no need to declare,
• Loans,  exempt, no need to declare.
• Any asset or income not remitted to Thailand - exempt, no need to declare. 

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Because I believe that the Tax Consultant, from Siam Legal, completely destroys that myth.

 

Although to be fair, he uses US Social Security ( And not UK Government Pensions ) as his example.

 

The "tax consultant" that claims that US social security is assessable income?

 

It is to laugh.

 

Ha.

[The Cyclist]

6 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

No, incorrect, exempt is no need to declare. Let's add to the list:

 

• Gifts remitted, exempt, no need to declare unless over 20M THB. 
• Income remitted that is exempt under DTA, no need to declare. 
• Pre 2024 income remitted, exempt, no need to declare. 
• Remittance of proceeds of assets sold at cost or a loss, exempt, no need to declare,
• Loans,  exempt, no need to declare.
• Any asset or income not remitted to Thailand - exempt, no need to declare. 

 

How many of those apply to retired Pensioners, who make up the majority of these threads.

[0ffshore360]

6 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I advocate complying ( No matter how much I Agree or disagree with them ) with the rules in Thailand.

 

Not looking for obscure wording to try and avoid those rules.

In that case i need advise that i reserve my apology.

There has been ample "quoted) reports of  divergent opinion/interpretation from number of individuals concerned enough to question more qualified local Thai as to applicable individual generic situations with little consensus that IMHO convinces me that I need adopt a need to prematurely "comply" with/to obscure relevant "rules".

 

 

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

The "tax consultant" that claims that US social security is assessable income?

 

It is to laugh.

 

Ha.

 

Could you list you tax qualifications and the Office that you work for ?
 

If not, your nothing but an internet pixel