Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[Dogmatix]

While 31 March was the last day for filing PND 90 or 91 in hard copy, yesterday was the last day for filing online.  Now you can still file for 2024 late and pay the fine but only in hard copy which is more of a hassle because the RD online system nowadays has a lot of your data already loaded, e.g. deductions for family and your insurance premiums, charitable donations and tax deductible consumer purchases. It also calculates the tax for you. 

 

I filed my own PND90 last week but filed for Mrs Dog, who is a Thai accountant but lets me do her tax, because tax is not her specialty or interest. As always her information that was not yet pre-loaded by the RD arrived at the last minute.  

 

After doing both PND90s with different types of income, I can confirm that absolutely nothing has changed in the system since last year, despite widespread speculation that the RD would update forms to allow for DTA claims.  There is a box to tick, if you have stock dividends from overseas but that has been there for years. I have never declared any but I assume it is just there because there are no tax credits on foreign dividends, so the form for them excludes that calculation. 

 

It would be interesting to see reports of people who have filed PND90s for foreign income remitted to Thailand last year.  It seems the only way to do this and claim DTA benefits if by filing in person at an RD office, assuming they know how to do, which seems doubtful in most locations.

[Expat68]

On 4/9/2025 at 12:38 PM, Dogmatix said:

The obvious problem is that, despite the fact the UK state pension had long been in existence when the UK DTA was negotiated, the British negotiators, unlike the Americans, didn't insist on the sole rights to tax state pensions.  The fact that they did insist on the sole right to tax civil servant pensions made clear that was all they cared about. Now  Brits are left scrabbling to establish some sort of equivalency based on the DTA that specifically excluded their pensions.

Went to my amphur, head of tax office said no need to fill tax form in. I am lucky in that if it all goes pair shaped I still have a house in the uk. I will just leave, I have had 15 great retirement years already, so no problem for me

[redwood1]

On 4/11/2025 at 9:25 AM, Expat68 said:

Went to my amphur, head of tax office said no need to fill tax form in. I am lucky in that if it all goes pair shaped I still have a house in the uk. I will just leave, I have had 15 great retirement years already, so no problem for me

 

Your Amphur would not let you pay tax.....Thats terrible......Maybe try going  to a number of tax offices until you can find one who will let you pay tax......

 

Offering many thousands in tea money might encourage them to let you pay tax.....

 

And if this did not work I would say it would be high time to take some hostages in the tax office until they came their senses and realized they simply are not going home Ever, until a farang can pay tax...

 

[JimGant]

On 4/6/2025 at 1:14 AM, ukrules said:

The dude in the video seemed to think not and said this also applies to foreigners, perhaps this explains why some people have been told they don't have to pay anything while others have to pay something.

Anyway - it's Carden from AITA and here's the video at the exact part where he begins to discuss this equality thing : 

If I were a Brit, I'd certainly bank Carden's interpretation, and thus NOT consider my remitted OAP as assessable income. There's tons of wiggle room with this, as the UK-Thai DTA never addresses OAPs -- and there's not even an "other income" Article in the DTA addressing income not specific to other Articles. Thus OAP is an orphan, ripe for interpretation to your advantage.

 

So, if you have to file a Thai tax return ('cause you have assessable income that exceeds allowances, and thus you owe taxes on it) -- do so; but don't include your OAP. And, of course, if no tax return need to be filed, 'cause OAP's non inclusion puts you below the taxable threshold -- don't file. Don't get a TIN, if you haven't already. And thus stay off the TRD radar screen. Nothing's going to happen. Less than a 1% chance, I would guess, of being called in for a chat at TRD -- unless you remit a huge amount of money to Thailand and thus raise a red flag. And if called in -- take your thumb drive with Carden's and his licensed Thai tax associate's advice on OAP assessability. Hey, always give yourself the advantage in a gray area, particularly if you have a thumb drive backing up your decision.

 

Why some folks, like ExpatThaiTax say, yes, OAPs are assessable -- is beyond me. It really is a gray area, when the DTA is so silent about it. And, if TRD had put something out there to clarify, in Thailand's favor -- I would think Carden would have included this assessment. Or maybe not -- he's the dude that advertised to US expats that, retire in Thailand, and never have to pay taxes on your Traditional IRA again. Snake oil, anyone?

[Yumthai]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Nothing's going to happen. Less than a 1% chance, I would guess, of being called in for a chat at TRD -- unless you remit a huge amount of money to Thailand and thus raise a red flag.

How much % do you assess people who remit undeclared several millions -truly tax-exempted or not- to buy property in Thailand will be likely to be audited? That's a bunch of people (Thais and foreigners alike).

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, Yumthai said:

How much % do you assess people who remit undeclared several millions -truly tax-exempted or not- to buy property in Thailand will be likely to be audited?

Thailand's not completely stupid -- they're not going to torpedo the golden goose that's foreign direct investment by quizzing all large expat remitters. So, if a large chunk of money is wired to Thailand, and the amount was large enough to trigger TRD's concern -- I imagine their next question to the bank would be: did it just sit there, or was it forwarded to, say, a construction company.

 

In my case, as I am sending  millions to Thailand these days -- 'cause I can't make my Thai nieces and nephews PODs of my US financial accounts (no SSN) and I have no US Will to cover this event -- it might raise a red flag, as this money isn't transferred to a construction company. So what? Call me in for a chat, and I'll show you my LTR visa, or that the money comes from a savings account whose balance on Dec 31 2023 was well in excess of what I've wired (Por 162).

[Yumthai]

49 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Thailand's not completely stupid -- they're not going to torpedo the golden goose that's foreign direct investment by quizzing all large expat remitters. So, if a large chunk of money is wired to Thailand, and the amount was large enough to trigger TRD's concern -- I imagine their next question to the bank would be: did it just sit there, or was it forwarded to, say, a construction company.

So you're implying remittances forwarded to construction companies (within X days?), car dealers and by extension any Thai company dissociated from the remitter would be -illegally- considered non assessable income by TRD since beneficial for Thai economy. Interesting.

 

I think TRD will not start screening bank accounts remittances and ask questions more than they ever did before, simply because they are not capable or willing to deal with all multiple and inconsistent tax and country DTAs rules plus foreign documentation they can't check.

[anrcaccount]

5 hours ago, Yumthai said:

How much % do you assess people who remit undeclared several millions -truly tax-exempted or not- to buy property in Thailand will be likely to be audited? That's a bunch of people (Thais and foreigners alike).

IMO “several millions” will be completely under the radar. 
 

Even 50-100M remitted unlikely to raise any serious flags IMO. 
 

Thousands of properties are purchased by foreigners ( and many more by Thais) every year for 30M+, never heard of a single audit due to foreign remittance.

 

 

 

 

[JimGant]

On 4/14/2025 at 7:56 PM, Yumthai said:

So you're implying remittances forwarded to construction companies (within X days?), car dealers and by extension any Thai company dissociated from the remitter would be -illegally- considered non assessable income by TRD since beneficial for Thai economy. Interesting.

Yep. Certainly in the interest of not disrupting FDI -- one of BoI's price projects -- enuf so that I'm sure they'd object to any over concern of large remittances by TRD.....

.... and furthermore, along with your observation, that TRD just isn't equipped/funded to ferret out valid DTA and Por 162 remittances. Self assessment by the remitter will logically remain the name of the game.

[rainwater]

has there been any instances in Thailand of expats being detained at the airport for not filing a tax return

[The Cyclist]

are we all aware that the TRD website has been updated ?
 

You should all have a read of this 

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2024/GUIDE_90_67_Complete.pdf

 

Make up your own mind whether you need to file ot not 😀😀

[Yumthai]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

are we all aware that the TRD website has been updated ?
 

You should all have a read of this 

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2024/GUIDE_90_67_Complete.pdf

 

Make up your own mind whether you need to file ot not 😀😀

 

Page 3:

 

2. Non-residents of Thailand

If you stayed in Thailand for less than 180 days in the tax year, you were a non-resident of Thailand for tax
purposes. If you derived any income which is subject to Thai personal income tax and you meet the
conditions stated in 1. (1) and (2), you are required to file this return

 

Funnily enough they omit to define what income is/isn't subject to Thai personal income tax as a non-resident for tax purposes... unless they imply income subject to tax is the same as being tax resident which then makes no sense to distinguish both categories at all.

 

[TheAppletons]

8 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

 

Page 3:

 

2. Non-residents of Thailand

If you stayed in Thailand for less than 180 days in the tax year, you were a non-resident of Thailand for tax
purposes. If you derived any income which is subject to Thai personal income tax and you meet the
conditions stated in 1. (1) and (2), you are required to file this return

 

Funnily enough they omit to define what income is/isn't subject to Thai personal income tax as a non-resident for tax purposes... unless they imply income subject to tax is the same as being tax resident which then makes no sense to distinguish both categories at all.

 

 

  Nothing new.  Most pensioners don't have income that is "subject to Thai personal income tax" due to the various DTAs in place.  

[The Cyclist]

6 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

 

Page 3:

 

2. Non-residents of Thailand

If you stayed in Thailand for less than 180 days in the tax year, you were a non-resident of Thailand for tax
purposes. If you derived any income which is subject to Thai personal income tax and you meet the
conditions stated in 1. (1) and (2), you are required to file this return

 

Funnily enough they omit to define what income is/isn't subject to Thai personal income tax as a non-resident for tax purposes... unless they imply income subject to tax is the same as being tax resident which then makes no sense to distinguish both categories at all.

 

 

I didn't post for the benefit of Non-residents

 

Try looking at the Para for Thai Tax Resident, then looking at what is assessable income under 40 ( 1 )

[Yumthai]

3 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Try looking at the Para for Thai Tax Resident, then looking at what is assessable income under 40 ( 1 )

I read nothing new.

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  Nothing new.  Most pensioners don't have income that is "subject to Thai personal income tax" due to the various DTAs in place.  

 

Thai Domestic Tax Policy - Which covers all Thai Tax Residents is Different from a DTA agreement, which is a bilateral International Agreement.

 

As I said many times. A DTA might exempt you from paying tax in Thailand. It does not exempt you from complying with Thai Domestic Tax Policy if you fall under the bracket of being a Thai Tax Resident.

 

In any case. I was posting it for the poster who continually howled about the DTA website has net been updated. Well it has now, and the handy guide tells you who and over what amounts, someone is required to file a tax return.

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, Yumthai said:

I read nothing new.

 

That comes as no surprise.

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

I read nothing new.

Best way, the nutters wanting to read everything and then volunteer to pay tax, betray us all.

[Yumthai]

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

That comes as no surprise.

What's your point? If you notice some change feel free to enlighten us.

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, Yumthai said:

What's your point? If you notice some change feel free to enlighten us.

 

The point was. The TRD website has been updated, and contains a handy guide.

 

Whether you can read it or not, how you wish to interpret it, is your choice.

[topt]

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2024/GUIDE_90_67_Complete.pdf

Thanks for posting.

Curious do you know when this was actually added?

 

My quick initial skim suggests it does not clarify many issues for foreigners (apart from possibly the statement highlighted below) because it is heavily biased towards those with local income - in whatever form. So guessing it is mainly a translation of some current Thai RD documents but could easily be wrong.

I did find this amusing however -

 

Quote

WHO HAS TO FILE ภ.ง.ด.90?

4. A deceased

Good luck with that..........

 

However this statement "suggests" any money you had anywhere prior to 31/12/23 is not taxable if remitted...........

Quote

Furthermore, as a tax resident earning assessable income from outside Thailand, you will only be subject to tax if such income is earned in any tax year starting from January 1,2024 onwards and is remitted to Thailand, either fully or partially, in the same or a later tax year.

[The Cyclist]

10 minutes ago, topt said:

Thanks for posting.

Curious do you know when this was actually added?

 

Not sure, but it says 26 March 2025 here

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/67692.html

 

I suspect that tax year 2024 will be a bit of a grace year, and it will kick off at the end of 2025.

[ukrules]

49 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Not sure, but it says 26 March 2025 here

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/67692.html

 

I suspect that tax year 2024 will be a bit of a grace year, and it will kick off at the end of 2025.

 

I'm still staying non resident until at least 2029, maybe 2030 - depends on how I structure my income and holdings nearer to that time.

 

[The Cyclist]

16 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

I'm still staying non resident until at least 2029, maybe 2030 - depends on how I structure my income and holdings nearer to that time.

 

 

Sensible.

 

No point in being bitten on the @rse, by being in denial.

[topt]

4 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

I suspect that tax year 2024 will be a bit of a grace year, and it will kick off at the end of 2025.

Even though there is no reference to DTA's?

 

And no observation from you on the statement about "income" prior to 31/12/2023?

 

So what exactly do you think will "kick off"?