Tax files

[digger70]

22 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

AI...though not always correct....

 

if the tax you pay in the UK qualifies as a tax credit in Thailand and the credit exceeds the amount of tax you would owe in Thailand, then you typically would not have to pay any additional tax in Thailand.

Read this this is all that  I found.

 https://www.expattaxthailand.com/understanding-uk-pensions-tax-thailand/#:~:text=The UK state pension is,taxable in

[digger70]

18 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

???

 

What tax rule?  por.161.162 came out in 2023 (not last year). Those are Thai RD ministerial directives ... and they did NOT, under any interpretation, state:

 

So you have me very curious.  What tax rule are you referring to?

 

Once again, I am aware of no such new rule.

Like I said that rule came into Action Last year Ok it came out 3023 So What 

Just read it and you'll Know. 🙏

[digger70]

8 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

 False.  

Nah.

True You read the New Tax rule that came in Last Year.

[oldcpu]

13 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Like I said that rule came into Action Last year Ok it came out 3023 So What 

Just read it and you'll Know. 🙏

There is no such rule.

 

Maybe in year 3023 but that is 1000 years away.

[NoDisplayName]

18 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Like I said that rule came into Action Last year Ok it came out 3023 So What 

Just read it and you'll Know. 🙏

 

Oh, gawd, you're not bringing up CRS, are you?

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, digger70 said:

Thailand can tax it if they think that one has't paid Enough tax  to there liking n the Home country according to the New Tax rule 

I posted this in another thread, 

 

This guy explains it quiet well. 

 

Basically, if your home country has say 5% tax and Thailand has say 15% tax, you pay the 5% in your home country and get 5% credit for it in Thailand, so Thailand can only tax you 10%, so the combined total is 15% tax.

 

All a DTA does is stop the same money being taxed twice.   

 

Many members wrongly believe that is they pay any tax in their home country, then Thailand doesn't get to tax their money at all.  Nothing could be further from the truth. 

 

 

[oldcpu]

2 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Basically, if your home country has say 5% tax and Thailand has say 15% tax, you pay the 5% in your home country and get 5% credit for it in Thailand, so Thailand can only tax you 10%, so the combined total is 15% tax.

 

All a DTA does is stop the same money being taxed twice.   

 

Many members wrongly believe that is they pay any tax in their home country, then Thailand doesn't get to tax their money at all.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

 

This is only true for cases where both countries are allowed to tax an income.  There are DTAs which clearly state only the source country is allowed to tax a DTA and the resident country has no taxation rights.

 

One needs to be careful here in generalizations.

[Will B Good]

AI......

 

Gifting money to your Thai wife in Thailand is tax-free, regardless of the amount or source, there is no limit and the gifted funds can be given as a lump sum or monthly payments.

 

 

So what is to stop those of us dumb enough to get married, from transferring any money we need this way....avoiding all tax?

 

I'm thinking if we spend, say 80,000 baht a month, I gift her 40,000 each month and avoid, or significantly reduce, any tax I might have to pay. Easy to argue then, that she is not simply transferring the money back to me.

[newbee2022]

Just now, Will B Good said:

AI......

 

Gifting money to your Thai wife in Thailand is tax-free, regardless of the amount or source, there is no limit and the gifted funds can be given as a lump sum or monthly payments.

 

 

So what is to stop those of us dumb enough to get married, from transferring any money we need this way....avoiding all tax?

 

I'm thinking if we spend, say 80,000 baht a month, I gift her 40,000 each month and avoid, or significantly reduce, any tax I might have to pay. Easy to argue then, that she is not simply transferring the money back to me.

Some flaws in your comment🤗

If you got access to your gift and benefitting from your gift..... it's again taxable ❗

[Will B Good]

Just now, newbee2022 said:

Some flaws in your comment🤗

If you got access to your gift and benefitting from your gift..... it's again taxable ❗

 

But the idea is if we show our monthly living costs are split 50:50......she isn't transferring any money back to me.

[newbee2022]

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

 

But the idea is if we show our monthly living costs are split 50:50......she isn't transferring any money back to me.

Yeah, but you're benefitting from that gift. So it's not a gift anymore.

But you can buy for her earrings eg🤗

[KhunHeineken]

6 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

The difference is: state pension is guaranteed by state but private Pension (by companies) is granted but not guaranteed 

In relation to the Australia / Thailand DTA, "government service pensions" are covered.  One may receive a government service pension for working in the military, for example.  

 

The old aged pension, whilst still paid by the government, is not covered by the DTA because receiving it does not involve ever having to perform any "government service." (employment)

 

Many old aged Aussie pensioners are under the belief their pension is covered by the DTA, it's not.   

[Will B Good]

4 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Yeah, but you're benefitting from that gift. So it's not a gift anymore.

But you can buy for her earrings eg🤗

 

Oh I think I see what you mean now.........because I'm gifting her that money..........I now benefit from not having to pay for her share of the groceries, electricity, meals out, fuel etc......so it is back to being classed as taxable.....correct? 

[newbee2022]

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

 

Oh I think I see what you mean now.........because I'm gifting her that money..........I now benefit from not having to pay for her share of the groceries, electricity, meals out, fuel etc......so it is back to being classed as taxable.....correct? 

👍🙏👏

[KhunHeineken]

6 hours ago, Presnock said:

Depends on the country's DTA, as US DTA says civil service pensions are only taxable by the US but that state and private pensions can be taxed by the county in which the US citizen is a tax resident i.e. THAILAND.  We all have had the opportunity to link to the TRD many times and you are well aware of where it is or you can just google DTA for whatever country you want.

Yes, the DTA's vary from country to country. 

 

From what I have read from American members posting, the USA / Thailand DTA is "kinder" than the DTA's for many other countries.  

 

The old aged pension in the Australia / Thailand DTA is not covered. 

[Presnock]

12 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Yes, the DTA's vary from country to country. 

 

From what I have read from American members posting, the USA / Thailand DTA is "kinder" than the DTA's for many other countries.  

 

The old aged pension in the Australia / Thailand DTA is not covered. 

Yessir, from what I have heard from forum users and TRD people and agents, the US DTA spells out more clearly on some issues.  But hopefully the govt and TRD will treat expats nicely.

[oldcpu]

23 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Yes, the DTA's vary from country to country. 

 

From what I have read from American members posting, the USA / Thailand DTA is "kinder" than the DTA's for many other countries.  

 

The old aged pension in the Australia / Thailand DTA is not covered. 

 

Which is 'kinder' in regards to a DTA.  That can be interesting to ponder.

 

In regards to the German-Thai DTA, for German sourced (non-civil servant/non-military) pensions, only Thailand (and not Germany) can tax that pension. 

 

So if that German pension (being payed from 31-Dec-2023 onwards) is remitted to Thailand, I guess it then comes down to which country has the most deductions and lowest tax rate - in order to make an assessment as to whom is "kinder".

 

I have never made the calculations myself (for as long as I have been a Thai tax resident, I have never yet remitted my German pension payments to Thailand).

[KhunHeineken]

2 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

This is only true for cases where both countries are allowed to tax an income.  There are DTAs which clearly state only the source country is allowed to tax a DTA and the resident country has no taxation rights.

 

One needs to be careful here in generalizations.

Yes, you are correct.  Some DTA's are "kinder" than others. 

 

It's up to the individual to read their own country's DTA with Thailand, but there are quite a few where the source and resident country both have taxing rights. 

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

Yessir, from what I have heard from forum users and TRD people and agents, the US DTA spells out more clearly on some issues.  But hopefully the govt and TRD will treat expats nicely.

I have said from Day 1, we will all have "something" to pay.  They are clearly opening up a new revenue stream, and no free passes for farang. 

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

Which is 'kinder' in regards to a DTA.  That can be interesting to ponder.

I have just posted in another thread that the TRD may not care about assessable, non assessable, pre 2024 savings, DTA's etc. 

 

They may ask for a bank statement, calculate the total of annual remittance, deductions for age and marital status, and churn out a figure you have to pay. 

 

Don't pay, no extension. 

 

A member has already posted this was his experience. 

[topt]

30 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I have just posted in another thread that the TRD may not care about assessable, non assessable, pre 2024 savings, DTA's etc. 

 

They may ask for a bank statement, calculate the total of annual remittance, deductions for age and marital status, and churn out a figure you have to pay. 

 

Don't pay, no extension. 

 

A member has already posted this was his experience. 

Which member?

If you are referring to @essexman in the pinned thread it had nothing to do with Immigration so I am presuming you mean somebody else?

[oldcpu]

36 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I have just posted in another thread that the TRD may not care about assessable, non assessable, pre 2024 savings, DTA's etc. 

 

They may ask for a bank statement, calculate the total of annual remittance, deductions for age and marital status, and churn out a figure you have to pay. 

 

Don't pay, no extension. 

 

A member has already posted this was his experience. 

 

Yes - I pondered over that 'bank statement' .  I guess if the could show a Thai bank statement (with remittances into Thailand) or a Wise statement (showing transfers into Thailand), but depending on the person, there could be many non-relevant transfers.  It could be painful to scroll through (ie many pages long).

 

I note the comment re:extensions.  I think I might even have been one of the 1st to note that might be a way to enforce foreigners to file tax returns.

 

But that was speculation by me then and speculation now.   I don't see that one user's case as indicative, as I can not help but believe there was more to his story than what he posted.

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

 

Yes - I pondered over that 'bank statement' .  I guess if the could show a Thai bank statement (with remittances into Thailand) or a Wise statement (showing transfers into Thailand), but depending on the person, there could be many non-relevant transfers.  It could be painful to scroll through (ie many pages long).

 

I note the comment re:extensions.  I think I might even have been one of the 1st to note that might be a way to enforce foreigners to file tax returns.

 

But that was speculation by me then and speculation now.   I don't see that one user's case as indicative, as I can not help but believe there was more to his story than what he posted.

I was one of the first also to state the obvious, that a document from the TRD MAY be needed for immigration in the future. 

 

I, and many other members that wanted to discuss this possibility had all of our posts deleted, as they were branded as "scaremongering." 

 

Discussing what would happen if you were riding a motorbike and crashed into a Thai and killed them, and were looking at either some years in gaol, or around 1 million baht compensation to the decease's Thai family is not scaremongering, but apparently discussing maybe a 10k or 20k baht tax liability was "scaremongering."  Go figure.  

 

I stand by my prediction that a TRD document will be needed by immigration, if not in 2025, at some stage in the future. 

 

In the next 2 months we will have more members post of their experience with their TRD office. 

 

Like a jigsaw puzzle, the pieces with come together and we will eventually be able to see the picture. 

[KhunHeineken]

2 hours ago, topt said:

Which member?

If you are referring to @essexman in the pinned thread it had nothing to do with Immigration so I am presuming you mean somebody else?

Yes, it was that member. 

 

He filed, declared, was given a tax bill, paid it, and got a "receipt" to use his word. 

 

I predict it's that "receipt" as he calls it that will be required by immigration in the future, whether you have some tax to pay, or not.  One's "receipt" could show zero tax owed, zero tax paid, but all good for immigration. 

 

More to the point of his post was how they "simplified" the whole tax policy to him remitting X amount, being over 65 and married, therefore he owed Y amount.  I also posted this very well may be the way the whole tax policy is implement, nation wide. 

 

No assessable, non assessable, pre 2024 savings, DTA blah blah blah.  You remitted X amount, you owe us Y amount.  Refuse to pay, no "receipt" and therefore no extension.  

 

Time will time, but one member has already posted this to be his experience at the TRD. 

[newbee2022]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

I was one of the first also to state the obvious, that a document from the TRD MAY be needed for immigration in the future. 

 

I, and many other members that wanted to discuss this possibility had all of our posts deleted, as they were branded as "scaremongering." 

 

Discussing what would happen if you were riding a motorbike and crashed into a Thai and killed them, and were looking at either some years in gaol, or around 1 million baht compensation to the decease's Thai family is not scaremongering, but apparently discussing maybe a 10k or 20k baht tax liability was "scaremongering."  Go figure.  

 

I stand by my prediction that a TRD document will be needed by immigration, if not in 2025, at some stage in the future. 

 

In the next 2 months we will have more members post of their experience with their TRD office. 

 

Like a jigsaw puzzle, the pieces with come together and we will eventually be able to see the picture. 

A document from the tax office stating that you have been taxed, for extension of stay?

At present (I started this thread) I don't pay taxes nor got a TIN. Not required said the office (state pension)

Subsequently no document.

Maybe in years to come...or never🤗

[KhunHeineken]

28 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Maybe in years to come...or never

Or, in 2025. 

 

You can't deny it's the perfect way to get farang to go to the TRD office.   You don't think the Thai's haven't thought about it? 

 

Time will tell. 

[topt]

2 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Yes, it was that member. 

 

He filed, declared, was given a tax bill, paid it, and got a "receipt" to use his word. 

 

I predict it's that "receipt" as he calls it that will be required by immigration in the future, whether you have some tax to pay, or not.  One's "receipt" could show zero tax owed, zero tax paid, but all good for immigration. 

 

More to the point of his post was how they "simplified" the whole tax policy to him remitting X amount, being over 65 and married, therefore he owed Y amount.  I also posted this very well may be the way the whole tax policy is implement, nation wide. 

 

No assessable, non assessable, pre 2024 savings, DTA blah blah blah.  You remitted X amount, you owe us Y amount.  Refuse to pay, no "receipt" and therefore no extension.  

 

Time will time, but one member has already posted this to be his experience at the TRD. 

As usual you have made the story fit your narrative.

Reading the posters actual words he gave figures which were all assessable - state and private pension. The TRD person quoted a tax figure below what he himself had calculated (rightly or wrongly) and paid said amount. 

 

Nothing whatsoever to do with any immigration requests. If he failed to claim tax credits down to him. Nothing to do with TRD making it simplified. TRD happy, he happy and if your scenario proves correct Immigration happy.

 

What else would they do......

 

The only lesson I see is that if you are determined to file make sure you understand what you are doing and what your allowances/TEDA/DTA etc are and TRD should honour what you say. 

[newbee2022]

9 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Or, in 2025. 

 

You can't deny it's the perfect way to get farang to go to the TRD office.   You don't think the Thai's haven't thought about it? 

 

Time will tell. 

That's my words(🤗) when I startet the thread a week ago.😄

[JBChiangRai]

They will never check that you made a tax return at immigration a standard thing.  

I think it highly likely that the TRD will notify Immigration with a “Limit” order when they identify someone who should be paying tax and have had no response to their requests, likewise you may be put on a no fly/no exit notice too.

 

The whole information system is integrated under Thailand 4.0 and can be considered as one large system.  If a Thai official has the authority, he can see everything about anyone.

[newbee2022]

36 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

They will never

Our clairvoyant is speaking 👏🤗