Reverse Polish Notation: Do you still use it? If not, why not?

short-Timer · January 23

30 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

In response to your question whether there is a very good RPN calculator for ANDROID phones.....

a. The answer is YES, of course.

b. I have been using this one for a long time, and upgraded it in 2019.

c. I like it. But, also of course, you do NOT get the feel of those trapezoidal HP keys, which were just PURE DELICIOUSNESS to use.

You, too, can return to Heaven when you return to RPN on ANDROID.

I do not touch any APPLE Garbage, OF COURSE. Hate Apple, the company, for being CONTROL FREAKS.

This app, at less than USD4.00....is the best app I have ever purchased, for the money.

Buy once and use forever.

It even has a function which helps you cook Chinese noodles.

And, no doubt, it's faster and more powerful than any HP calculator, even my HP65, of the middle 1970s, when our astronauts might have taken HP stuff to the Moon, and back.

Therefore, I suggest that everyone just try it for a week, and you will never go back to AN.

I will never return to AN.

The first calculator, handheld, I used was an old TI.

But, HP was so much better.

HP-65 specs here: http://www.datamath.org/Related/HewlettPackard/HP65.htm

Dearest GammaGlamm,

Ah, Heaven, thy name is RPN.

Thank you for confirming that the Android app exists. I must admit, I’ve been wandering in the wilderness of arithmetic for far too long, unaware that salvation was just a download away. Imagine my delight at discovering that there’s still a way to embrace the brilliance of RPN, even in this cold, lifeless digital age where buttons are just… illusions on a screen.

Still, I’ll admit, I’ve been hesitant to embrace a digital version of something so divine. You see, the tactile sensation of an HP calculator wasn’t just a tool, it was a love affair. Each click of those trapezoidal keys felt like a tiny promise that the universe could make sense. But if this app can bring me even a fraction of that joy, then perhaps it’s worth a leap of faith. I mean, isn’t that what progress is? A leap, sometimes blind, but hopefully rewarding.

Pure deliciousness, indeed. You captured it perfectly. Those keys were like fine chocolates, melting into the soul of your fingertips as you punched in calculations that felt as smooth as silk. And at less than USD 4.00? That’s almost an insult to what this app might be capable of. A coffee these days barely gets you a smile, but for four dollars, this app could resurrect my long-lost love for mathematical precision. It almost seems too good to be true.

Still, I can’t help but mourn the loss of that tactile magic. There’s something about the physical world that apps can never replicate. The weight of the calculator in your hand, the slightly worn edges of the keys from years of loyal service, and the smug satisfaction of knowing your HP could outperform anything else in its time. It wasn’t just functionality. It was art. It was a ritual. It was life.

As for Apple… I feel your disdain. Oh, how I do. The very thought of Apple’s restrictive ecosystem makes me shudder. Control freaks, indeed, dictating how we live, work, and calculate, as if we’re mere puppets in their white minimalist world. Nothing about them could ever replicate the freedom and elegance of true RPN, where logic reigns supreme, untethered by the constraints of design trends and shiny marketing.

I’m curious, though… What’s this about cooking Chinese noodles? That alone might sell me on this app. Is it a recipe guide, a timer, or does it simply whisper sweet encouragements as I stir the pot? Is there anything this app can’t do? I feel as though I’ve been missing out on a treasure trove of possibilities, all because I was stuck in my ways, loyal to the past but blind to the future.

Perhaps it’s not the same as the HP-65 that went to the Moon and back, but if it can take me to the kitchen and make dinner, I’d say that’s still pretty impressive. NASA might not call, but my stomach will thank me. And while it may not hold the weight of space exploration in its virtual circuits, this app sounds like it carries the spirit of invention and practicality that defined an era.

I’ll give this app a shot, Gamma. I trust your judgment more than I trust my own sometimes. If it’s good enough for you, it’s good enough for me. You’ve never steer anyone wrong, and I know you wouldn’t now. If it can truly bring me back to the glory days of RPN, then I’ll gladly embrace it with open arms and a hopeful heart.

And I promise, if you were disappear from AN over this then I would fully understand why. The very idea feels like sacrilege now. I can see clearly that RPN is the one true way, the path forward, and the only method worthy of our loyalty.

Forever loyal to RPN,

A Reformed Calculator Enthusiast

GammaGlobulin · January 23

4 minutes ago, short-Timer said:

Dearest GammaGlamm,

Ah, Heaven, thy name is RPN.

Thank you for confirming that the Android app exists. I must admit, I’ve been wandering in the wilderness of arithmetic for far too long, unaware that salvation was just a download away. Imagine my delight at discovering that there’s still a way to embrace the brilliance of RPN, even in this cold, lifeless digital age where buttons are just… illusions on a screen.

Still, I’ll admit, I’ve been hesitant to embrace a digital version of something so divine. You see, the tactile sensation of an HP calculator wasn’t just a tool, it was a love affair. Each click of those trapezoidal keys felt like a tiny promise that the universe could make sense. But if this app can bring me even a fraction of that joy, then perhaps it’s worth a leap of faith. I mean, isn’t that what progress is? A leap, sometimes blind, but hopefully rewarding.

Pure deliciousness, indeed. You captured it perfectly. Those keys were like fine chocolates, melting into the soul of your fingertips as you punched in calculations that felt as smooth as silk. And at less than USD 4.00? That’s almost an insult to what this app might be capable of. A coffee these days barely gets you a smile, but for four dollars, this app could resurrect my long-lost love for mathematical precision. It almost seems too good to be true.

Still, I can’t help but mourn the loss of that tactile magic. There’s something about the physical world that apps can never replicate. The weight of the calculator in your hand, the slightly worn edges of the keys from years of loyal service, and the smug satisfaction of knowing your HP could outperform anything else in its time. It wasn’t just functionality. It was art. It was a ritual. It was life.

As for Apple… I feel your disdain. Oh, how I do. The very thought of Apple’s restrictive ecosystem makes me shudder. Control freaks, indeed, dictating how we live, work, and calculate, as if we’re mere puppets in their white minimalist world. Nothing about them could ever replicate the freedom and elegance of true RPN, where logic reigns supreme, untethered by the constraints of design trends and shiny marketing.

I’m curious, though… What’s this about cooking Chinese noodles? That alone might sell me on this app. Is it a recipe guide, a timer, or does it simply whisper sweet encouragements as I stir the pot? Is there anything this app can’t do? I feel as though I’ve been missing out on a treasure trove of possibilities, all because I was stuck in my ways, loyal to the past but blind to the future.

Perhaps it’s not the same as the HP-65 that went to the Moon and back, but if it can take me to the kitchen and make dinner, I’d say that’s still pretty impressive. NASA might not call, but my stomach will thank me. And while it may not hold the weight of space exploration in its virtual circuits, this app sounds like it carries the spirit of invention and practicality that defined an era.

I’ll give this app a shot, Gamma. I trust your judgment more than I trust my own sometimes. If it’s good enough for you, it’s good enough for me. You’ve never steer anyone wrong, and I know you wouldn’t now. If it can truly bring me back to the glory days of RPN, then I’ll gladly embrace it with open arms and a hopeful heart.

And I promise, if you were disappear from AN over this then I would fully understand why. The very idea feels like sacrilege now. I can see clearly that RPN is the one true way, the path forward, and the only method worthy of our loyalty.

Forever loyal to RPN,

A Reformed Calculator Enthusiast

There is a "switch" for going from RPN to AN and back, for those who are weak-kneed.

GammaGlobulin · January 23

14 hours ago, Gsxrnz said:

Bring back Log-Books and Slide Rules. I blame the invention of the digital calculator for the entire demise of Western civilization.

It suddenly occurred to me that...

If you love tables so much...

Then why not expand your HORIZONS and invest USD396.00 in a vintage BOWDITCH?????

Believe me, there are plenty of TABLES in this book.

You could pore over a Bowditch for a year, and never be fully satisfied.

I recall the day when I would use a slide-rule with a Bowditch.

A slide rule never runs out of power, if you have your hands.

Back in 1852, if you had a slide rule and a Bowditch and a Sextant, you could travel the world in just a rowboat and never get lost.

Vintage books does not allow copying of the actual celestial tables, such as the Lunar tables, etc.

But, if you pay USD395.00, then you can see these tables, if the book belongs to you.

GammaGlobulin · January 23

So, anyway....re the RealCalc Scientific Calculator RPN app for Android.

This app had not been updated since 2015, until recently when it was updated, but only for Android 14 and higher.

I am using Android 14.

And, SciCalc Plus works well and....Looking Good, Billy Ray.....

For less than four dollars, nothing to lose here.

I would upgrade to paid version just in order to support the developer.

But, use the free version as a test...and....also....

Just to see if you are smart enough to use this calculator app.

Note: If not smart enough, then obviously do not upgrade to the paid version.

GammaGlobulin · January 23

Although RealCalc app is the best, and if one might want to try an HP48 emulator instead...for FREE on Android...

Then there is always this one:

==========

HP sells its own emulators for Android...but...not FREE...and much more expensive than RealCalc app for Android.

I guess, judging by the number of Play Store downloads, RealCalc is still the winner.

GammaGlobulin · January 23

Another HP RPN emulator...

But, USD10.00 seems pricey to me.

Yet, cheaper than the emulators offered by HP, perhaps.

So then the question begs:

After one finishes installing about FIVE RPN calculator emulators on ones Android device....

Then what?

============

I knew you would ask.

And I have the solution for your problem.

GammaGlobulin · January 23

But, other than just for amusement, should good students at good schools use calculators?

No.

I don't recall using a calculator in the 1970s.

But do the students use them today?

Well, maybe for statistics, or something....

Still, as I say, handheld calculators are mostly just for amusement at frat parties, etc.

They should never be used for serious academic work.

This is the only reason I mentioned the use of RPN in this Topic, of course...

For the amusement of TV members.

One exception might be in the labs.

In Physics labs for example.

Sometimes calculators can be useful in such places.

Clapped out · January 23

5 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

....I don't recall using a calculator in the 1970s......

Does this mean you went through 70's schooling ?

Could you really be THAT young ?

5 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

newbee2022 · January 24

On 1/22/2025 at 6:29 PM, GammaGlobulin said:

Note and Question: Most people are logical. Right?

Haha, no, I don't think so. Reading all the comments here day by day, I'd say Darwin's Evolution theory was wrong 😀

Yes, please send me your information

Muhendis · January 24

I had to look up this reverse Polish notation on Google and discovered that it's nothing to do with music notation.

Ah. Well.

Such is life...........

GammaGlobulin · January 24

8 hours ago, Clapped out said:

Does this mean you went through 70's schooling ?

Could you really be THAT young ?

All I can tell you is that we were NOT using calculators at PENN in 1971 for math class, first year, second year, etc.

Yes, we had access to compute power, such as via the DEC 10.

But, we never used it for Math Classes.

Only for computer classes.

First time I needed a calculator was a statistics course, during summer, I took at some slouch college,...I think the name was either Ursinus College, or Uranus College.

If I am young, then I am also younger than I look.

The good thing is that, during my lifetime, the HP calculators have dropped in price by a factor of ONE-HUNDRED.

Also, my phone, with the proper app, is almost better than any calculator ever was.

The only thing I miss, or miss most, is the HP Trapezoidal-Keys.

If I could put those keys on my phone, then it would be an improvement, for me at least.

sandbox · January 24

This thread of college nostalgia I can certainly relate to although, on the other side of the pond, there was no way, as a student, I could afford a fancy imported HP.

But it wasn't the maths guys or even the computer nerds who were desperate for calculators, it was the engineers.

Sure, those studying computer architecture and compilers would find behind the scenes conversion from infix to RPN was mundane to remove the problems of associativity and precedence. An abstraction now thankfully hidden by a modern calculator.

Whereas, the poor engineers slogging through pages of calculations, could actually get an answer this side of Sunday.

RPN was fun to use but I don't miss it any more than punching Hollerith cards, coding in assembler or wire wrapping TTL.

GammaGlobulin · January 24

16 minutes ago, sandbox said:

But it wasn't the maths guys or even the computer nerds who were desperate for calculators, it was the engineers.

Sure, those studying computer architecture and compilers would find behind the scenes conversion from infix to RPN was mundane to remove the problems of associativity and precedence. An abstraction now thankfully hidden by a modern calculator.

Whereas, the poor engineers slogging through pages of calculations, could actually get an answer this side of Sunday.

It has always been my understanding that, back in the day, the engineers just did the creative work.

And that they then hired scores of girls and women to do the actual calculations using non-digital old-school calculators.

Digital calculators are just as fun to play with these days as they ever were 50 years ago.

I do not know why, but calculators are just fun to play with, whether they are handheld or just an RPN scientific calculator app on one's phone.

In my view, calculators are the REAL Adult Toys of recent decades.

.

sandbox · January 24

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

It has always been my understanding that, back in the day, the engineers just did the creative work.

And that they then hired scores of girls and women to do the actual calculations using non-digital old-school calculators.

Yes, I can see where you're coming from and how it might be applicable to something like calculating the loading across an aircraft wing. But I'm thinking more of my experience of circuit analysis or say, analogue filter bank design where endless calculations needed to be done to specify component values to meet design specs; noise, stability and tedious stuff like sensitivity to component value tolerances.

Toys and fun? All of it still is - never grew up.

GammaGlobulin · January 24

14 minutes ago, sandbox said:

Toys and fun? All of it still is - never grew up.

Apt Pupils never grow up.

One is never too old that one should stop with the playfulness.

GammaGlobulin · January 24

On 1/22/2025 at 8:56 PM, Lacessit said:

Dear me, a touch of misogyny creeping into the posts of GG.

In my experience, my misogyny is directly proportional to the increase in vocal fry.

(an affectation I cannot abide)

Nothing more.

Lacessit · January 24

8 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

In my experience, my misogyny is directly proportional to the increase in vocal fry.

(an affectation I cannot abide)

Nothing more.

It's called vibratto when singers of both genders use it. Neil Diamond is a good example.

GammaGlobulin · January 24

27 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It's called vibratto when singers of both genders use it. Neil Diamond is a good example.

It was called GREAT jazz singing when Satchmo blessed us with it.

Now, it is a curse, especially when women try it.

And, it seems to be among the worst examples of pollution emanating from the American North-West, probably places like San Francisco, maybe Oregon.

suzannegoh · January 24

On 1/22/2025 at 6:29 PM, GammaGlobulin said:

Dear Folks,

As you know, any time you might need to add or subtract a few numbers, then Reverse Polish Notation (RPN) is always faster and more convenient, not to mention more accurate.

And I am wondering how many in Thailand are using RPN, versus the more inaccurate way of adding numbers, such as using AN, instead.

Some have said that a minority of schools here do not stress ARITHMETIC enough. Maybe this is true. But, still, if kids today, not to mention we adults, would increase our use of Reverse Polish Notation, then surely our Math (Maths) skills would continue to improve.

Hewlett Packard has always been a big fan of RPN. Yet, in the past several years, it seems that HP has not been offering as many calculators with this RPN function. Do you know why?

If you do NOT use Reverse Polish Notation, then would you care to share your thoughts concerning why you do not?... Because, really, such a choice seems just so illogical.

These days, of course, many people use their phones for doing arithmetic calculations. And, maybe there is a way to do Reverse Polish Notation on one’s phone. Do you do this on your phone?

I could send you a photo of my first Reverse Polish Notation device, if anyone cares.

Please let me know if you do.

Times are changing, but I just hope that most people here will continue to use Reverse Polish Notation whenever they feel the need.

Best regards,

Gamma

Note and Question: Most people are logical. Right?

There's an app for Amdroid and iOS called Free42 which is an excellent emulation of an HP42S calculator.

suzannegoh · January 24

On 1/23/2025 at 9:47 AM, phetphet said:

I must admit, I know nothing of RPN, but what I have been reading about and watching on Youtube videos recently is what is known as Singapore Maths.

This seems to teach young school children to be able rapid solve many + - x / questions in their heads.

Below is an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXnp__Ni8e0

Mundane video that has nothing to do with RPN calculators.

GammaGlobulin · January 24

13 minutes ago, suzannegoh said:

There's an app for Amdroid and iOS called Free42 which is an excellent emulation of an HP42S calculator.

Yes.

Thank you.

I mentioned this above.

And shared an image of the thing.

Good on Android and on Apple phones.

GammaGlobulin · January 24

1 hour ago, suzannegoh said:

Mundane video that has nothing to do with RPN calculators.

Yes.

100-percent AGREE.

Those ankle-biters will never become scientists and engineers if they do not immediately get in the swing of things with a good STEM curriculum, and plenty of MATH, preferably using RPN.

Just go online, and one can read so many testimonials from users of RPN...that it isn't even funny.

Also, the REALLY funny thing is that the critics of RPN, most of them, have never even used it for a year, or so.

If they had used it for a minimum length of time, then they would probably understand its advantages, and never go back.

But, little minds...
You know what they say...

Can't teach little minds tricks that might help them improve themselves.

One also need not be an engineer to appreciate RPN.

But, it helps if one is solving more complex equations.

Even if not, then it's just a pleasure to use RPN.

And, I have been a convert since the early 1970s.

Purdey · January 24

As if using Arabic numerals wasn't enough, now we have to look at reverse Polish notation. I give up. 🙄

suzannegoh · January 24

17 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Yes.

100-percent AGREE.

Those ankle-biters will never become scientists and engineers if they do not immediately get in the swing of things with a good STEM curriculum, and plenty of MATH, preferably using RPN.

Just go online, and one can read so many testimonials from users of RPN...that it isn't even funny.

Also, the REALLY funny thing is that the critics of RPN, most of them, have never even used it for a year, or so.

If they had used it for a minimum length of time, then they would probably understand its advantages, and never go back.

But, little minds...
You know what they say...

Can't teach little minds tricks that might help them improve themselves.

One also need not be an engineer to appreciate RPN.

But, it helps if one is solving more complex equations.

Even if not, then it's just a pleasure to use RPN.

And, I have been a convert since the early 1970s.

One may not need to be an engineer to appreciate RPN calculators but one needs to intuitively understand the order of operations when trying to solve complex equations. Most non-engineers seem not to - numerous posts can be found on Facebook asking people to solve sample equations and most just plow ahead from left to right without any concern for which operations take precedence, and then after coming up with the wrong answer they argue that the rules must have changed since they were in high school.

GammaGlobulin · January 24

4 minutes ago, suzannegoh said:

One may not need to be an engineer to appreciate RPN calculators but one needs to intuitively understand the order of operations when trying to solve complex equations. Most non-engineers seem not to - numerous posts can be found on Facebook asking people to solve sample equations and most just plow ahead from left to right without any concern for which operations take precedence, and then after coming up with the wrong answer they argue that the rules must have changed since they were in high school.

Strangely enough, I agree with you, once more.

I first encountered this phenomenon when asking some Chinese guy, who had a 4.0 in soft-science courses, how he would factor or multiply equations or variables embedded within parentheses.

His entire order of what he was supposed to multiply first, second, and third, was all mixed up, and totally opposite to what is standard form, and logical.

Even if one showed him how, he still could not accept the better order, ie which to begin with, and the next.

Just another example of what can go wrong when taking up RPN.

Maybe this is why there are those who are unable to appreciate the beauty of it.

suzannegoh · January 24

7 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Strangely enough, I agree with you, once more.

I first encountered this phenomenon when asking some Chinese guy, who had a 4.0 in soft-science courses, how he would factor or multiply equations or variables embedded within parentheses.

His entire order of what he was supposed to multiply first, second, and third, was all mixed up, and totally opposite to what is standard form, and logical.

Even if one showed him how, he still could not accept the better order, ie which to begin with, and the next.

Just another example of what can go wrong when taking up RPN.

Maybe this is why there are those who are unable to appreciate the beauty of it.

I switched to an HP about halfway through engineering school. Before that I had a TI "scientific" calculator that evaluated equations as they are written. It didn't take long to adapt to RPN, and after awhile you find that when tackling equation that you think that way the calculator does.

SpaceKadet · January 24

Had one of those back in the 80-90. The only programmers calculator when you were still working with hex dumps when something went wrong. Hex/Dec/Oct/Bin conversion feature was great. And working in RPN it was using the stack, just as the programs from that time. The workmanship on those was far beyond what you can get now.

Lost it somewhere along my many moves, and found only the User Guide.

GammaGlobulin · January 24

19 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

Had one of those back in the 80-90. The only programmers calculator when you were still working with hex dumps when something went wrong. Hex/Dec/Oct/Bin conversion feature was great. And working in RPN it was using the stack, just as the programs from that time. The workmanship on those was far beyond what you can get now.

Lost it somewhere along my many moves, and found only the User Guide.

Another beauty....!

Also, I recall that I really loved that orange Function button.

A long time ago, but I still remember it, as if it were yesterday.

Must have made a real impression on me.

And, I wish Hewlett-Packard were just the same engineering company it once was, too.

Clapped out · January 24

8 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

All I can tell you is that we were NOT using calculators at PENN in 1971 for math class, first year, second year, etc.

Yes, we had access to compute power, such as via the DEC 10.

But, we never used it for Math Classes.

Only for computer classes.

........

Ahhh! so you ARE my generation after all 🙂

"..such as via the DEC 10 "

And maybe my year ( or there about ) 🙂 🙂

( Posted as an engineer ..... lets sweep the maths degree under the carpet )

8 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

GammaGlobulin · January 24

2 hours ago, Clapped out said:

Ahhh! so you ARE my generation after all 🙂

"..such as via the DEC 10 "

OK.

We used the DEC 10, at that time. And so, you can pretty-much pinpoint the year.

Mostly for interactive computing.

Also, terminal connected from my house via telephone modem to DEC 10, located at the school.

Also.

For MainFrame: IBM 360/370

Those were the days when Science was King, and so was engineering.

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