Road Safety in Thailand – a summary of Perceptions and Reality

[kwilco]

8 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

You keep assuming what others do or don't know, and that's your fail. All the data I, or anyone needs, is the stats yearly on accidents and deaths here, and again what you're still missing. It's on the drivers themselves to understand the laws as they receive their driver licenses. They do know the laws and the one example I gave was seeing a parent driving a scooter while there are 4 others on the scooter without helmets, two offenses.

 

Driving recklessly on any roads in any weather conditions is something anyone older than a teenager should know to avoid, or they shouldn't have a license in the first place.

 

I actually do care about road safety. I'm a good driver, who's a safe driver, and I taught my children the same, along with my ex wife and now girlfriend.

 

What I implied asking if you're Thai is that you seem to be sticking up for the drivers here, saying it's more the fault of bad roads, lack of enforcement, bad infrastructure etc, instead of the drivers themselves, so I asked if you were Thai, as a local would be more likely to stick up for them than another. I don't miss anything. You are. I, and probably everyone else here, as seen by their comments, do understand what makes accidents happen, and how they can be avoided. There is  an attitude here, and it doesn't just encompass driving, and It seems you don't understand ,much about it, although you claim to be here over 20 years.

 

The difference between us is that you're a close minded individual, that looks at data instead of the whole picture, and are still missing the main point. Drivers are the ones responsible for the safety of themselves and others around them. When I say many drivers here are bad, it means a large percentage, and that can be seen daily on the roads, and if you see it for over 6 years, it adds up to quite a few. Add to this many others observations and comments matching mine, and that ups the percentage higher. It doesn't matter what percentage it actually is. What matters is it's a lot more than any other places I and many others have seen driving over 50 years. I also, along with everyone else who's commented. have discussed solutions, and it's been seen on this forum ever since I joined. You keep missing that point also. Give it a rest. You aren't saying anything we already didn't know.

 

Trying to have a discussion with you is like playing chess with a pigeon...

 

As ever. your response is full of logical fallacies, anecdotal reasoning, and contradictions.

 

“All the data I, or anyone, needs is the yearly accident stats.” - ”OMG! - That’s a fundamental misunderstanding of statistics. As I said before raw accident numbers don’t explain why crashes happen or how to fix them. Professionals analyse factors like enforcement, infrastructure, driver training, and cultural attitudes—not just body counts. It also helps if you know how and where stats are collated.

 

“Drivers know the laws, they just ignore them.” - “drivers” - what do you mean by that? - Another racist stereotype? - If laws aren’t enforced, why would people follow them? We know this from many countries that lack of enforcement breeds negligence and this is why countries with have proper enforcement systems - just suggesting the police “do their job” - is facile in the extreme.. As ever your blaming of individuals without addressing systemic failures is both naive and counterproductive.

 

“I saw a parent with four people on a scooter without helmets.”
Yes, we’ve all seen that. But anecdote isn’t data and actually shows a huge misunderstanding of the future surrounding the rich and poor in road safety - see the post by “Lorry”. If individual observations were the gold standard for understanding road safety, we wouldn’t need actual studies to assess risk factors and solutions. But one thing that is self-evident is that countries that base their safety programs on data show great improvements wheat in Thailand where “alternative” anecdotal methods have shown no significant change in 30 years.

 

“Anyone older than a teenager should know to avoid reckless driving.”
That’s wishful thinking. People don’t behave based on what they ‘should’ do, they behave based on what’s allowed. That’s why better driver training, licensing exams, and strict enforcement matter—not just personal responsibility. - but you have shown over and over again you don’t understand what “human error” is.

 

“Are you Thai?”
This Such a weak, irrelevant deflection. Road safety isn’t about race or nationality; it’s a universal science about policies, enforcement, and infrastructure. If someone disagrees with your opinion, it doesn’t mean they’re “sticking up” for anyone—it means your argument is just not an argument.

 

“It doesn’t matter what percentage it actually is.”
This single line DESTROYS YOUR ENTIRE CREDIBILITY. If you don’t care about actual data, then you’re not arguing in good faith. You’re just pushing a narrative based on personal bias.

 

“I, and many others, have driven for years and see it daily.”
You still haven’t grasped that That’s just confirmation bias. The fact that multiple people have the same subjective experience doesn’t make it objective truth. If that were the case, science and statistics wouldn’t exist

 

“You are close-minded for looking at data instead of the whole picture.”
No—ignoring data is close-minded. The whole picture includes actual research, not just gut feelings. Again you don’t understand cognitive dissonance either.

 

Final thought? You’re arguing based on personal frustration, not actual analysis. If you want real change, you need facts, not emotional anecdotes.

 

PS - "playing chess with a pigeon" —no matter how well you play, they'll just knock over the pieces, poop on the board, and strut around like they won.

[fredwiggy]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

 

Trying to have a discussion with you is like playing chess with a pigeon...

 

As ever. your response is full of logical fallacies, anecdotal reasoning, and contradictions.

 

“All the data I, or anyone, needs is the yearly accident stats.” - ”OMG! - That’s a fundamental misunderstanding of statistics. As I said before raw accident numbers don’t explain why crashes happen or how to fix them. Professionals analyse factors like enforcement, infrastructure, driver training, and cultural attitudes—not just body counts. It also helps if you know how and where stats are collated.

 

“Drivers know the laws, they just ignore them.” - “drivers” - what do you mean by that? - Another racist stereotype? - If laws aren’t enforced, why would people follow them? We know this from many countries that lack of enforcement breeds negligence and this is why countries with have proper enforcement systems - just suggesting the police “do their job” - is facile in the extreme.. As ever your blaming of individuals without addressing systemic failures is both naive and counterproductive.

 

“I saw a parent with four people on a scooter without helmets.”
Yes, we’ve all seen that. But anecdote isn’t data and actually shows a huge misunderstanding of the future surrounding the rich and poor in road safety - see the post by “Lorry”. If individual observations were the gold standard for understanding road safety, we wouldn’t need actual studies to assess risk factors and solutions. But one thing that is self-evident is that countries that base their safety programs on data show great improvements wheat in Thailand where “alternative” anecdotal methods have shown no significant change in 30 years.

 

“Anyone older than a teenager should know to avoid reckless driving.”
That’s wishful thinking. People don’t behave based on what they ‘should’ do, they behave based on what’s allowed. That’s why better driver training, licensing exams, and strict enforcement matter—not just personal responsibility. - but you have shown over and over again you don’t understand what “human error” is.

 

“Are you Thai?”
This Such a weak, irrelevant deflection. Road safety isn’t about race or nationality; it’s a universal science about policies, enforcement, and infrastructure. If someone disagrees with your opinion, it doesn’t mean they’re “sticking up” for anyone—it means your argument is just not an argument.

 

“It doesn’t matter what percentage it actually is.”
This single line DESTROYS YOUR ENTIRE CREDIBILITY. If you don’t care about actual data, then you’re not arguing in good faith. You’re just pushing a narrative based on personal bias.

 

“I, and many others, have driven for years and see it daily.”
You still haven’t grasped that That’s just confirmation bias. The fact that multiple people have the same subjective experience doesn’t make it objective truth. If that were the case, science and statistics wouldn’t exist

 

“You are close-minded for looking at data instead of the whole picture.”
No—ignoring data is close-minded. The whole picture includes actual research, not just gut feelings. Again you don’t understand cognitive dissonance either.

 

Final thought? You’re arguing based on personal frustration, not actual analysis. If you want real change, you need facts, not emotional anecdotes.

 

PS - "playing chess with a pigeon" —no matter how well you play, they'll just knock over the pieces, poop on the board, and strut around like they won.

Again, since you're either not comprehending what I'm writing or are just too pigheaded to understand your shortcomings. I, and others here you're dismissing, do understand what makes accidents happen, and the stats involved.

 

When I say drivers, I mean the drivers here, as that's what we're talking about when I say I see more infractions here daily then I ever did in my 50 plus years of driving in other countries and almost all of the US states. That's observations I and others here have made. they aren't made up , lies or hallucinations. When you see things happen, they're happening, and it again, has nothing to do with race or racism.

 

Thailand has not seen much change no matter how many times they say they will do something about it, and like another said in that article, "you can't change their attitudes", which is reason one why the accidents are happening, and it all still falls on the DRIVER, attitudes towards obeying the laws, attitudes towards driving recklessly, speeding, driving drunk, arrogance or incompetence.

 

Again, since you missed this before. I asked if you were Thai because you still think it's other things besides the local drivers here who are the number one problem, and that, AGAIN, does not mean all of them, but the attitudes towards everything, including driving, are ingrained here.

 

It doesn't matter what actual percentage it is, but it means a HIGH one, as the stats show.

 

Confirmation bias has no bearing on this. Personal observation means we are actually seeing it happen, not just because we believe it's happening from prior experience.

 

We, and we means I included, are not ignoring data, as you keep missing what I, and others, have been saying. It's a combination of all the factors, but again, it's the driver who is still responsible FIRST for his and other's around his safety.

 

I'm not frustrated, I just see things a lot more clearly than you do. I know why the accidents happen, as I've said many times, but you are still not understanding who is the most responsible for them, and seeing you're repeating the same things over and over again, you never will. You keep bringing race into this, which shows I'm playing chess with a dolt who hasn't the capacity to understand simple logic.

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

Again, since you're either not comprehending what I'm writing or are just too pigheaded to understand your shortcomings. I, and others here you're dismissing, do understand what makes accidents happen, and the stats involved.

 

When I say drivers, I mean the drivers here, as that's what we're talking about when I say I see more infractions here daily then I ever did in my 50 plus years of driving in other countries and almost all of the US states. That's observations I and others here have made. they aren't made up , lies or hallucinations. When you see things happen, they're happening, and it again, has nothing to do with race or racism.

 

Thailand has not seen much change no matter how many times they say they will do something about it, and like another said in that article, "you can't change their attitudes", which is reason one why the accidents are happening, and it all still falls on the DRIVER, attitudes towards obeying the laws, attitudes towards driving recklessly, speeding, driving drunk, arrogance or incompetence.

 

Again, since you missed this before. I asked if you were Thai because you still think it's other things besides the local drivers here who are the number one problem, and that, AGAIN, does not mean all of them, but the attitudes towards everything, including driving, are ingrained here.

 

It doesn't matter what actual percentage it is, but it means a HIGH one, as the stats show.

 

Confirmation bias has no bearing on this. Personal observation means we are actually seeing it happen, not just because we believe it's happening from prior experience.

 

We, and we means I included, are not ignoring data, as you keep missing what I, and others, have been saying. It's a combination of all the factors, but again, it's the driver who is still responsible FIRST for his and other's around his safety.

 

I'm not frustrated, I just see things a lot more clearly than you do. I know why the accidents happen, as I've said many times, but you are still not understanding who is the most responsible for them, and seeing you're repeating the same things over and over again, you never will. You keep bringing race into this, which shows I'm playing chess with a dolt who hasn't the capacity to understand simple logic.

 

The irony of calling someone ‘pigheaded’ while repeating the same flawed argument is apparently lost on you

 You insist you ‘understand the stats’ but immediately say ‘it doesn’t matter what percentage it is’—which proves you don’t care about actual data, just personal anecdotes.

Observing reckless drivers doesn’t mean you’ve diagnosed the cause—that’s why professionals rely on research, not just what they see on the road. You dismiss enforcement, infrastructure, and education while ranting about ‘attitudes,’ as if that alone explains systemic issues.

You keep asking if I’m Thai, as if nationality determines objectivity—a lazy, weak deflection. You’re not ‘seeing clearly’; you’re just repeating the same simplistic, surface-level take while ignoring the deeper causes of road safety failures.

If you think you’re playing ‘chess,’ you’re playing without half the pieces."

[fredwiggy]

3 minutes ago, kwilco said:

 

The irony of calling someone ‘pigheaded’ while repeating the same flawed argument is apparently lost on you

 You insist you ‘understand the stats’ but immediately say ‘it doesn’t matter what percentage it is’—which proves you don’t care about actual data, just personal anecdotes.

Observing reckless drivers doesn’t mean you’ve diagnosed the cause—that’s why professionals rely on research, not just what they see on the road. You dismiss enforcement, infrastructure, and education while ranting about ‘attitudes,’ as if that alone explains systemic issues.

You keep asking if I’m Thai, as if nationality determines objectivity—a lazy, weak deflection. You’re not ‘seeing clearly’; you’re just repeating the same simplistic, surface-level take while ignoring the deeper causes of road safety failures.

If you think you’re playing ‘chess,’ you’re playing without half the pieces."

Again and again, like the uncontrollable narcissist, you keep coming back, assuming you know me. Again, I have agreed with what you've said about data, as has others, but as others have done, you are missing the main reason accidents happen everywhere. Don't try and think for anyone else, or assume the knowledge they have, because it doesn't work. How do you think professionals come up with their data? Observations. Calling me lazy or weak shows you're still assuming, as you know nothing about me, but like few others on this forum, your ego overrides common sense, or arrogance because you actually think you're right.. I don't keep asking if you're Thai. I asked it that one time, and followed up with my reasoning. Drop it, seeing you can't fathom why I asked it anyway. Stop thinking you're smarter than me. You aren't, and how you think shows that................."You’re not ‘seeing clearly’; you’re just repeating the same simplistic, surface-level take while ignoring the deeper causes of road safety failures"..........  I, along with others, AGAIN, has responded to you, showing we do know why accidents happen. . It's YOU that isn't understanding it's still on the DRIVER first.I could play chess against you with a quarter of the pieces and would still call checkmate on you easily.

[kwilco]

So to conclude -  there is a big gap between public perception and the reality of the road safety situation.

People have an unassailable belief that their driving experience qualifies them as experts on road safety, but this is just not true. The general public usually fails to understand that road safety as a public health issue. They stubbornly continue to view crashes through outdated concepts like  "bad drivers" rather than recognizing that “human error” is a universal problem. In fact they don’t even understand what human error entails. (that’s human error on their part!)

In reality, we all have the potential to be bad drivers  and nothing can prevent this. To deal with this road safety measures need to be systemic rather than individual-focused

The blame for failure to truly understand the issues of road safety  at least in part has to be laid at the door of the media – in all its forms…their reporting being one of the main problems in getting across a realistic perception of road safety in Thailand. The media prioritizes sensational news stories rather than focusing on the root causes of accidents. This reinforces common misconceptions and cognitive biases. Unchecked, people then rely on unreliable eyewitness accounts rather than evidence-based research.

The primary cause of road accidents is human error, yet many prefer to blame aberrant behaviour because it is easier to understand.

The key to understanding road safety is statistics – they enable governments to initiate policies that work. Unfortunately Thai crash statistics are inconsistent and unreliable, making it difficult to analyse and implement effective policies. Without comprehensive data reform, significant progress in road safety is hampered.

Thailand’s driving culture is difficult for foreigners to understand – they frequently misinterpret it. This further complicates any constructive debate. Expats and long-term residents often struggle to fully grasp the nuances of Thai road behaviour, leading to misunderstandings about traffic flow and safety. It seems to be the natural prerogative of expats to descend into the habit of cynically deriding their new host country Thailand being no exception. One see them sitting in groups in bars and restaurants reinforcing each other’s prejudices with token anecdotes. Whether this is from a feeling of inadequacy or what, I’m not sure but without proper language skills, no real aim in life they seem to try to hide their ignorance with a generous dose of cynicism.

The mix of traffic on Thai roads—including motorcycles, cars, buses, and pedestrians—creates a highly dangerous mix; compounding the problem is the poor quality of the roads themselves, with a notable lack of road and traffic engineers contributing to inadequate infrastructure.

Law enforcement is also a major obstacle to any improvement. The police and the courts require reform to ensure that traffic laws are effectively enforced. This could involve constitutional changes, even. Attempts at enforcement, such as fines and speed limits, are frequently undermined by corruption and inefficiencies. Fines go uncollected, and some do not even make it into official records due to questionable policing practices.

Emergency services are frequently overlooked, with Thailand lacking an efficient system for first responders post-crash  care and any standardised emergency facilities

It seems at last some progress is being made. New traffic engineering programs are being introduced. However, some of these initiatives are poorly executed—pedestrian crossings and road markings often appear bad designed and haphazard, and newly introduced speed limits are so low that they are widely ignored. The elephant in the room is motorcycles, which account for around 75% of all road deaths and injuries. Addressing this effectively could lead to a significant reduction in casualties.

If road is to improve with any significance, Thailand must adopt the Safe System approach. This includes education, enforcement, engineering, emergency response, and evaluation.

Public awareness campaigns should promote lifelong learning for drivers, as seen in other countries.. Stricter enforcement of traffic laws can only happen with major police training and reform. All aspects need to be addressed together - improved road and vehicle safety standards, and a more efficient emergency response system are essential.

In the future, policy-making must be data-driven, relying on accurate and consistent crash statistics. Thailand’s new Parliamentary Advisory Group https://www.who.int/thailand/news/detail/03-05-2024-th-rs-parliamentary-advisory-group-takes-aim-at-road-crashes - on road safety marks a step in the right direction, but sustained efforts and systemic changes are necessary to make a lasting impact.

[kwilco]

On 2/9/2025 at 12:50 AM, fredwiggy said:

How do you think professionals come up with their data?

 

Observation???? - NO!!! How wide of the mark you are - are you just making this up as you go along?

I'm sorry but you clearly don't know and like Dunning & Kruger say - you just don't know how much you don't know....

 

Road safety Statistics in Thailand

 

 

So ‘deaths not at the scene are not counted.” Is a myth - the figures during holidays are released by the police - but they make no claim to them being final figure only angry expat amateurs do that.

 

“Lies, Damned lies and Statistics”- Stats are not facts – tey are aids to understanding and it is how they are interpreted that is important.

There are quite a mix of stats available about road safety in Thailand but the ones you usually see in the media are firstly from the Thai police and later from the WHO. The Thai police could almost be dismissed out of hand and the WHO is usually misrepresented by the media as they only quote only the set of stats relating to DEATHS out of 100,000 population.

If you want to get an idea of how pathetically incomplete Thai road safety stats are just compare them with a brief look around the UK government web sites - https://roadtraffic.dft.gov.uk/downloads

 

The way statistics are usually gathered is usually governed by internationally recognised methods, but Thailand has had dreadful statistics gathering and collation. Their statistics are incomplete inconsistent and inaccurate – Organisations like the WHO have to try and make sense of them, but in some categories, the statistics simply aren’t available.

How they are gathered and applied in Thailand can be very haphazard.

Having said that, it is fair to conclude that the stats for Thailand however vague, are genuinely frightening and there is a serious road safety problem in the kingdom.

 

Other collations of statistics may include

• Deaths per 1 million inhabitants
  • Serious Injuries per 1 million inhabitants
  • Minor injuries per 1 million inhabitants
• Deaths per 10 billion vehicle-KM
• Deaths per 100,000 registered vehicles

Registered vehicles per 1000 inhabitants

 

Here are some of  the main data sources for road safety statistics in Thailand

1. Police Information System (POLIS) - Royal Thai Police
2. Department of Highways (DOH) – Monitors road conditions and accident statistics on national highways.
3. Department of Land Transport (DLT) – Manages vehicle registrations, driver licenses, and safety compliance data.
4. Thai Road Accident Data Center for Road Safety Culture (ThaiRSC) – A key database managed by the DLT, compiling accident reports from multiple agencies.
5. Emergency Medical Institute of Thailand (EMIT) & National Institute for Emergency Medicine (NIEM) – Provides data on injuries and fatalities from road crashes.
6. TRAMS - "Thailand Road Accident Management System,"

7.     E-Claim - Road Victim Protection Company

8.     Injury Surveillance (IS) - Ministry of Public Health

9.     Trauma Registry - Ministry of Public Health

10.  19 External Causes of Injury - Ministry of Public Health

11.  Information Technology for Emergency Medical System (ITEMS) - Emergency Medical Institute of Thailand

12.  Emergency Claim Online (EMCO) - National Health Security Office

13.  OP/PP Individual Record - National Health Security Office

14.  Death Certificates - Ministry of Interior

15.  Public Health Ministry (MOPH) & Bureau of Epidemiology – Tracks road traffic injuries and fatalities through hospital records and death certificates.

16.  Road Safety Directing Centre (RSDC) & Thailand Road Safety Committee (TRSC) – Collects and analyses data to improve road safety policies.

 

 

17.  Academic and Research Institutions – Universities and think tanks conduct studies on traffic accidents and road safety trends.

18.  World Health Organization (WHO) & Global Status Reports on Road Safety – Provides international comparisons and estimates for Thailand’s road safety situation.

 

These sources put together, provide a comprehensive view of road safety

 

They are seldom used or even acknowledged by the mainstream media.

 

 

OS here's a screenshot giving kjust a tiny sample of the stats available in the UK - 

[kwilco]

On 2/9/2025 at 12:50 AM, fredwiggy said:

Again and again, like the uncontrollable narcissist, you keep coming back, assuming you know me. Again, I have agreed with what you've said about data, as has others, but as others have done, you are missing the main reason accidents happen everywhere. Don't try and think for anyone else, or assume the knowledge they have, because it doesn't work. How do you think professionals come up with their data? Observations. Calling me lazy or weak shows you're still assuming, as you know nothing about me, but like few others on this forum, your ego overrides common sense, or arrogance because you actually think you're right.. I don't keep asking if you're Thai. I asked it that one time, and followed up with my reasoning. Drop it, seeing you can't fathom why I asked it anyway. Stop thinking you're smarter than me. You aren't, and how you think shows that................."You’re not ‘seeing clearly’; you’re just repeating the same simplistic, surface-level take while ignoring the deeper causes of road safety failures"..........  I, along with others, AGAIN, has responded to you, showing we do know why accidents happen. . It's YOU that isn't understanding it's still on the DRIVER first.I could play chess against you with a quarter of the pieces and would still call checkmate on you easily.

 

For someone obsessed with ‘not assuming,’ you make a lot of assumptions. You claim to understand data but reduce everything to ‘attitude’—a vague, unmeasurable excuse that ignores infrastructure, enforcement, and systemic flaws.

Observations alone don’t produce meaningful data—that’s why professionals use controlled studies, statistics, and comparative analysis, not just personal experiences. Saying ‘it’s the driver first’ is like blaming a plane crash solely on the pilot while ignoring mechanical failures, training deficiencies, and air traffic control.

And for all your bravado, this isn’t chess—it’s pigeon chess and you are the pigeon.... but you wouldn't know

 

BTW – when it comes to experience, which you keep harping on about, I have MUCH more valid experience than you.