Road Safety in Thailand – a summary of Perceptions and Reality

[fredwiggy]

5 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

I dont understand what this whole thing is about? Is the dude denying Thai road carnage? When some Thai guy violates every road rule and I see it, do I care whether its his fault or the governments fault? Dude is driving down a crappy road dodging motorcycles and elephants. Whats the point? Its Thailand, not my country

He seems to think we think all Thais are bad drivers and not that it's just more than any other place we've driven. He has his own agenda why he calls us racist and sticks up for a population that has more selfish, arrogant and incompetent drivers than most other countries, and the stats show this, but he blames the police, the infrastructure, bad roads and whatever else and not the ones responsible for the accidents, which is the drivers.

[hotsun]

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

He seems to think we think all Thais are bad drivers and not that it's just more than any other place we've driven. He has his own agenda why he calls us racist and sticks up for a population that has more selfish, arrogant and incompetent drivers than most other countries, and the stats show this, but he blames the police, the infrastructure, bad roads and whatever else and not the ones responsible for the accidents, which is the drivers.

That and, he doesnt acknowledge that thai people dont consider anything wrong, so nothing will change

[Yagoda]

4 minutes ago, hotsun said:

That and, he doesnt acknowledge that thai people dont consider anything wrong, so nothing will change

Well from a personal perspective, nothing beats a ticket to slow you down. 

[fredwiggy]

4 minutes ago, hotsun said:

That and, he doesnt acknowledge that thai people dont consider anything wrong, so nothing will change

This is what I mean about the attitudes here. This has been going on for decades and the accidents and deaths only stay the same. Every country has road problems, but some countries make the top of the list every year and there are reasons for this that data doesn't take into account. It's the drivers who don't care. Life itself isn't precious here as it is in the west and that attitude alone is why people go out into the world without caring. If I'm going to die, there is nothing I can do to prevent it. yes, but if you want to live, you take precautions and part of them is driving with awareness and care for yourself and others.

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, Yagoda said:

Well from a personal perspective, nothing beats a ticket to slow you down. 

It does work, and especially if you're poor, but to a point. People get tickets and still drive like hell because that's their nature. When you have a population where absent dads are the norm, kids don't get the structure and teaching that happens when dads are around, at least the dads that care about their children's welfare. Generation after generation of children growing up with little guidance has them going into the world totally unprepared for what happens next.

[scottiejohn]

4 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Why do I care my perception is all that counts.

To you!

[Yagoda]

24 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

 

Oh sorry guys who are engaged in this discussion, I just rolled by to offer my opinion, unfortunately, I have a deranged stalker from the Trump obsessive haters that follows me around and trolls, I wont respond to him and wont comment further on your topic so that he wont glob it up with inanity.

[kwilco]

15 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

said data comes from observation

which it doesn't

[kwilco]

15 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Well from a personal perspective, nothing beats a ticket to slow you down. 

If you got a ticket, you didn't slow down, did you?

then you have to pay it - or dispute it and Thailand as yet has no effctive way to do this.

[kwilco]

17 hours ago, hotsun said:

That and, he doesnt acknowledge that thai people dont consider anything wrong, so nothing will change

THis is about perceptions and why they are so wide of the mark - QED.

 

You are being guilty of lazy thinking - you cover you lack of knowledge with cynicism  - the truth is that the total amount of productivity loss caused by road traffic accidents alone was approximately 121 billion Baht (45 billions for fatalities, 7 for disabilities, 67.5 for serious injuries and 1.5 for slight injuries), or close to 0.8% of the country's GDP. Many people in the uthorities re not satid=sfied with this but as with many people on this thread, their perception is askew  - this prevents significant progress (I've mentioned this before). 

however there have been impovements - it is also difficult to quantify them as yet; the dust has to settle from covid. THere are factoirs that have made the situation worse over the last ten years and these need to be balanced against factors that have worked.

This year, government has various measures in place that may inprove things in the next few years (target 2030)   Thailand has multiple committees and groups that work on road safety, including a Parliamentary Advisory Group, a Road Safety Working Group, and subcommittee they have also engaged the services of IRAP, which signals a seachange in policy as this involves using the Safe System

[Lorry]

19 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

He seems to think we think all Thais are bad drivers

This is something i have read about 100 times in this thread,  and many thousands of times on TV during the  last 20 years. 

I never discuss the subject with farang - because in my experience,  farang are awful drivers, especially when let loose in Thailand.  Here farang feel free to do everything they wouldn't dare to do at home.

 

BTW Thais admire many things in farang, farang are rich, farang have a good heart, are responsible and hard working... but I have never heard a Thai admire  farang driving skills.

Maybe farang don't drive the way Thais do, and thus don't fit in in Thai traffic (I am being polite here).

 

But whatever farang lack in driving skills,  they make up for it with their super-sized ego.

Everybody is a Michael Schumacher.

 

Having said all this, this thread is about road safety,  and OP is absolutely right that the point is not whether Thais (or farang) are bad drivers.

It's very refreshing to read about road safety in Thailand from a rational perspective,  and not the usual racist rant you here from every barstool.

Kudos to OP.

[kwilco]

15 minutes ago, Lorry said:

This is something i have read about 100 times in this thread,  and many thousands of times on TV during the  last 20 years. 

I never discuss the subject with farang - because in my experience,  farang are awful drivers, especially when let loose in Thailand.  Here farang feel free to do everything they wouldn't dare to do at home.

 

BTW Thais admire many things in farang, farang are rich, farang have a good heart, are responsible and hard working... but I have never heard a Thai admire  farang driving skills.

Maybe farang don't drive the way Thais do, and thus don't fit in in Thai traffic (I am being polite here).

 

But whatever farang lack in driving skills,  they make up for it with their super-sized ego.

Everybody is a Michael Schumacher.

 

Having said all this, this thread is about road safety,  and OP is absolutely right that the point is not whether Thais (or farang) are bad drivers.

It's very refreshing to read about road safety in Thailand from a rational perspective,  and not the usual racist rant you here from every barstool.

Thx to OP.

It's about perceptions and reality of road safety - My main point is that many farang don't understand traffic, the driving environment or road safety  in Thailand - the perception is misleading, so they can't understand the situation in Thailand. THey also don't understand that their home country has been adopting the Safe System or variations on it for several decades.  The Safe System approach to road safety aims to eliminate fatal and serious injuries by designing a transport system that accounts for universal human errors and vulnerabilities. It focuses on five Es as mentioned above. It is a public health program and those who have already benefited from it don't realise it's there and protecting them - the sad side effect is that people fail to recognise this and think because their country has a lower death rate, it's because they are all better drivers than in Thailand.

[fredwiggy]

8 hours ago, kwilco said:

which it doesn't

Wrong again, so you're consistent..........

Key points about observation as a data source:

• Direct observation:

  This involves actively watching and recording what happens in a given situation, like observing customer interactions in a store. ....

  Qualitative research:

  Observation is often used in qualitative research where researchers aim to understand the nuances and context of a phenomenon rather than just numerical data. .......

  Participant observation:

  Researchers actively participate in the situation they are observing to gain deeper insights....... 

  Non-participant observation:

  Researchers observe without actively interacting with the subjects.

   

 

 

[fredwiggy]

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

It's about perceptions and reality of road safety - My main point is that many farang don't understand traffic, the driving environment or road safety  in Thailand - the perception is misleading, so they can't understand the situation in Thailand. THey also don't understand that their home country has been adopting the Safe System or variations on it for several decades.  The Safe System approach to road safety aims to eliminate fatal and serious injuries by designing a transport system that accounts for universal human errors and vulnerabilities. It focuses on five Es as mentioned above. It is a public health program and those who have already benefited from it don't realise it's there and protecting them - the sad side effect is that people fail to recognise this and think because their country has a lower death rate, it's because they are all better drivers than in Thailand.

Farang do understand traffic here. You're assuming again. The same rules apply here that do in other countries. The only thing that is different is driving on the right side of the road, which Americans, continental European, Japanese, Africans and other countries. This is something a visitor has to adjust to but seems to do very easily. If you're a good driver, you adapt quickly. 

 

Yes, there are again, bad drivers that come here, tourists, that think they can do whatever they want, but they probably do it to some degree back home, albeit a smaller degree because back home they know they will get tickets for bad driving. 

 

Every country, again, has bad roads, weather and much the same laws on driving safety. Here they don't have ice or snow, so it's easier than up in northern areas. 

 

Thailand has had laws and much the same things you posted about for many decades, yet the accidents and deaths don't reduce. Again, this is because of the attitudes of the people here. Lack of law enforcement allows them to continue with less fines than in western countries, which can reduce accidents, but people who are ticketed still have their ingrained attitudes.  

 

By and large, westerners are much better drivers than locals here. Sorry you don't see that, but everyone else seems to, as per the replies on this and many, many other topics here. People aren't failing to recognize this, but you are. The main reason westerners get into accidents isn't about skill, training or speed. It's texting while driving, and that's something that needs to be dealt with harder. What you listed are reasons accidents happen here, and I agreed with them, but the cultural attitudes towards everything, including driving, is what gets them started out wrong................... Cultural factors play a part in the limited education and training, and the lack of test success. Some suggested that barriers exist to creating a road safety culture, that Thais seek to oppose any laws, particularly the enforcement of drunk driving laws, and “live to have fun” (sanuk) (6, 8). As a result of limited education and fear of being punished, there were “norms” of “reckless driving,” “not obeying the laws,” and driving at high speeds (22). Speed limit signs often “mean nothing,” with some cars driving between 50 and 80 km/h in school zones or through zebra pedestrian crossings (Karnjanatawe, 2021, n.p.). Ultimately some culpability must be attached to inadequate education, training and monitoring schemes...................The government favors the rich when it comes to drivers here, and it shows with who makes up the majority of victims. This also shows in other ways, with how they care for children being a main concern.

[fredwiggy]

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

It's about perceptions and reality of road safety - My main point is that many farang don't understand traffic, the driving environment or road safety  in Thailand - the perception is misleading, so they can't understand the situation in Thailand. THey also don't understand that their home country has been adopting the Safe System or variations on it for several decades.  The Safe System approach to road safety aims to eliminate fatal and serious injuries by designing a transport system that accounts for universal human errors and vulnerabilities. It focuses on five Es as mentioned above. It is a public health program and those who have already benefited from it don't realise it's there and protecting them - the sad side effect is that people fail to recognise this and think because their country has a lower death rate, it's because they are all better drivers than in Thailand.

Other excerpts from a link which shows both sides, the people at fault and the government that doesn't care.............."The public generally has not exerted pressure on politicians to take action. Public discourses about road safety have been depoliticised, often attributing blame to the victim or Thai culture rather than addressing government inaction. Moreover, punishing drivers for traffic violations is politically unpopular. The public often attributes accidents to the victims having “bad luck” (7) and so “easily accept what happens” (15). This notion largely stems from the widespread Buddhist notion of karma: “if something bad happens to a person it is because of his poor karma"....................Equally the public dislike restrictions on their being able to drive freely, such as reduced speed limits or any increased frequency and rate of fines. Drivers “still think it is okay to drive recklessly and not follow rules”.............The Transport Minister's decision to increase speed limits in 2021 was therefore met with widespread popular support (7). In contrast, when, in 2018, DLT proposed to increase the fines for drivers caught driving without a licence or with a suspended or expired licence, the proposal met widespread public backlash and, not wanting to lose popularity, the Prime Minister himself, Prayuth Chan-ocha, vetoed it (12, The Nation, 2018). Politicians have also pushed the police to hand out fewer fines, fearing that if the police did so, their popularity would wane and they would “lose votes” in the next election (3) since the public is “not happy about strong law enforcement” (15) Politicians “were afraid of people's complaints,” including over policies that would impinge on them yet improve road safety, so prefer not to burden the public by increasing fines (12)..............This puts the problems on both sides, with the people needing to push the government to do more, as it's them who are dying every day. Their attitudes need to change, which means they have to care more about themselves and others, to force those in power to do something. It's in their hands first.

[Yagoda]

10 hours ago, kwilco said:

If you got a ticket, you didn't slow down, did you?

then you have to pay it - or dispute it and Thailand as yet has no effctive way to do this.

Well maybe they should start.

[kwilco]

11 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Well maybe they should start.

I think you should read my comments on the 5 Es - one of which is enforcement.  THis is part of the Safe System which Thailand needs to adopt  to make any progress in road safety - hence why  the post is about perceptions and reality

[kwilco]

12 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Their attitudes need to change

Yes - that's why it's called [perceptions versus reality - I've said on several occasions that the w=authorities and the general public like yourself don't understand the basics of road safety and this is a reason why no significant change has occurred.

[Yagoda]

13 minutes ago, kwilco said:

I think you should read my comments on the 5 Es - one of which is enforcement.  THis is part of the Safe System which Thailand needs to adopt  to make any progress in road safety - hence why  the post is about perceptions and reality

well I didnt need to count how many angels could dance on the head of a pin to realize that though.....

[kwilco]

a typical "farang" driver in Thailand....

 

 

[Lorry]

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

a typical "farang" driver in Thailand....

 

 

I know him!

[kwilco]

45 minutes ago, Lorry said:

I know him!

We all do! I think he posts on this thread!

[fredwiggy]

10 hours ago, kwilco said:

Yes - that's why it's called [perceptions versus reality - I've said on several occasions that the w=authorities and the general public like yourself don't understand the basics of road safety and this is a reason why no significant change has occurred.

You've said many times we don't understand. What you keep missing is that we do understand. You assume what others know. This is a very ignorant statement you continuously make. You do not know what anyone on earth knows or doesn't know. That's called assuming.  YOU are also a part of the general public. You assume others don't know what you do, although anyone alive can do the same research. How old are you anyway? 

 

No changes have happened because of the local attitudes. This again is what you miss, and obviously don't understand. If you left your house, wherever that may be, and get out and observe what's actually going on, then you might understand accidents happen for many reasons, and the driver is first at fault, no matter what.You can have better roads, more police enforcement, better training, harder tests and everything else but the cultural factor and attitudes will not change because things here are ingrained. Just how women here are looked at as inferior, some things may never change.............

 

 

 

 

as·sump·tion

/əˈsəm(p)SH(ə)n/

noun

noun: assumption; plural noun: assumptions; noun: Assumption

1. 1.

   a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof.

   "they made certain assumptions about the market"

[kwilco]

17 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

What you keep missing is that we do understand

You think you understand. I notice now you are just gainsaying but infact you have moved your goalposts - so slowly you are learning.

[kwilco]

19 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

If you left your house, wherever that may be,

supposition and assumption - you key 'skills" and ad hom!

[fredwiggy]

2 minutes ago, kwilco said:

You think you understand. I notice now you are just gainsaying but infact you have moved your goalposts - so slowly you are learning.

No, I know I understand, you think I don't, a very stupid assumption seeing you don't know me at all.

[fredwiggy]

2 minutes ago, kwilco said:

supposition and assumption - you key 'skills" and ad hom!

Before you reply, try making them make sense.

[kwilco]

44 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

You've said many times we don't understand. What you keep missing is that we do understand. You assume what others know. This is a very ignorant statement you continuously make. You do not know what anyone on earth knows or doesn't know. That's called assuming.  YOU are also a part of the general public. You assume others don't know what you do, although anyone alive can do the same research. How old are you anyway? 

 

No changes have happened because of the local attitudes. This again is what you miss, and obviously don't understand. If you left your house, wherever that may be, and get out and observe what's actually going on, then you might understand accidents happen for many reasons, and the driver is first at fault, no matter what.You can have better roads, more police enforcement, better training, harder tests and everything else but the cultural factor and attitudes will not change because things here are ingrained. Just how women here are looked at as inferior, some things may never change.............

 

 

 

 

as·sump·tion

/əˈsəm(p)SH(ə)n/

noun

noun: assumption; plural noun: assumptions; noun: Assumption

1. 1.

   a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof.

   "they made certain assumptions about the market"

 

Repeating yourself louder doesn’t make you right. You keep insisting ‘we understand’ while proving, over and over, that you don’t.

Saying ‘attitudes won’t change’ is just defeatist nonsense. And shows how what little grasp you have of the topic. Plenty of countries have improved road safety through systemic changes—better laws, enforcement, and education. You don’t fix a broken system by blaming individuals while ignoring what shaped their behaviour. You probably don’t know of the conference coming up on the 26/7th Feb -  "Roads & Traffic Expo Thailand" is a road safety conference held in Thailand in February, taking place on February 26-27, 2025 at BITEC, Bangkok. Will you be there?

And your bizarre rant about women? That just exposes your mindset—you think problems are ‘ingrained’ rather than fixable. That’s the lazy excuse of someone who’d rather complain than think critically. And now you have returned to using the word “culture” in a way racists do to try and deflect from the fact they are basically racist ideas.

As I said before there is stupid, stupider and racist – and so long as you think along those lines you will NEVER understand how to deal with road safety in Thailand.

 

It seems the irony of including the definition of assumption is lost on you?

 

everything you've posted on this thread - EVERYTHING - is assumption or suposition - you have not backed it with any evidence or factual support anywhere

[kwilco]

 th

9 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

No, I know I understand, you think I don't, a very stupid assumption seeing you don't know me at all.

it evidence based!

[fredwiggy]

3 minutes ago, kwilco said:

 

Repeating yourself louder doesn’t make you right. You keep insisting ‘we understand’ while proving, over and over, that you don’t.

Saying ‘attitudes won’t change’ is just defeatist nonsense. And shows how what little grasp you have of the topic. Plenty of countries have improved road safety through systemic changes—better laws, enforcement, and education. You don’t fix a broken system by blaming individuals while ignoring what shaped their behaviour. You probably don’t know of the conference coming up on the 26/7th Feb -  "Roads & Traffic Expo Thailand" is a road safety conference held in Thailand in February, taking place on February 26-27, 2025 at BITEC, Bangkok. Will you be there?

And your bizarre rant about women? That just exposes your mindset—you think problems are ‘ingrained’ rather than fixable. That’s the lazy excuse of someone who’d rather complain than think critically. And now you have returned to using the word “culture” in a way racists do to try and deflect from the fact they are basically racist ideas.

As I said before there is stupid, stupider and racist – and so long as you think along those lines you will NEVER understand how to deal with road safety in Thailand.

 

It seems the irony of including the definition of assumption is lost on you?

I can say exactly the same thing about you. Stop assuming what others know or don't know. It's a teenage approach and doesn't work with adults.

 

I didn't mean attitudes won't change. It might happen but things are ingrained in cultures and they are hard to change. 

 

I have a lot more "grasp" of the topic than you'll ever know. I came from America, where the testing, classes and education on driving is much harder than it is here. That is something you don't understand. although you talk about doing this for over 20 years. I'm 68, so I've been learning about roads and drivers for over 51 years, by classes, tests and observation, something you dismiss although it's how data ans stats come about. 

 

What I "probably" don't know is again passing you by. Do you actually think I have to go to a conference to understand why accidents happen? Are you that dense that you can't see there is research available and people have learned throughout their lives about this? Problems that are ingrained are "fixable". It can happen, IF they want it to happen. These accidents have been going on for decades, with the same BS heard about fixing them coming from those in charge, yet nothing happens. of course changes can be made, IF they want them to be made. The poor here are looked at as lower than the rich, and the rich get priority in everything. Same everywhere but more so in a poor nation. IF the people push their leaders for change it can happen, but being suppressed and controlled makes things harder.

 

It isn't a bizarre rant saying locals here look at women as inferior. It's the Buddhist culture itself that does this. I've been thinking all along, you're either a Thai yourself and feel the need to back locals up, which I can understand to a point, because backing others who are doing wrong is like following Hitler. or you're slowly climbing to the top of the brown noser list here on AN. Assuming someone obviously a lot more intelligent than you is stupid, IS stupid. People that assume are close minded, which means they are hesitant to change.