2 Dead Diving The Scylla

[H2oDunc]

Just read thisin the Mail this morning. Bad for a supposedly SAFE wreck site. I think it needs a re think

Two divers exploring a sunken warship paid with their lives when they ran out of air before they could find their way out.

Kaye Moss, 43, and David White, 42, are thought to have become trapped in the wreckage of HMS Scylla.

Their bodies were found in the depths of the ship, 70ft beneath the waves, after the alarm was raised when they failed to return.

The friends, both experienced divers, set off on their expedition in Whitsand Bay, Cornwall, last Thursday.

Coastguards are thought to have taken five hours to find their bodies.

It is the second tragedy at the ship, which has attracted thousands of divers since it was sunk to create Britain's first artificial reef three years ago. Last year a 40-yearold diver died after getting into difficulties while exploring the ship.

Mrs Moss, a mother of two, had a great love for diving and hoped to visit every major dive site in the world, her husband said last night.

Trevor Moss, a detective constable with Gloucestershire Police, said she was equally devoted to her job as a senior primary school teacher.

"As a family we've been on diving holidays to Egypt. We've dived in lots of different places while visiting Kaye's dad in Portugal and Kaye and I have been away on diving holidays together," he said.

"She absolutely loved it. All of our family holiday plans had to revolve around diving.

"She wanted to dive in places like the Maldives and Micronesia. She wanted to go to every dive site in the world."

Mrs Moss, of Cam in Gloucestershire, was co-ordinator for science, English and music at Berkeley Primary School.

"Teaching was her life. People said she should go for headships, but there was never a thought that she would leave Berkeley," Mr Moss said.

"She always wanted to stand in front of a class and teach children."

Mrs Moss's funeral will be held at St Mary's parish church in Berkeley later this month.

Mr White, from Rodborough, near Stroud, was managing director of Astec Telecom, a corporate voicemail and call-minder business which has contracts with the NHS and the finance industry.

He leaves a wife of nearly 20 years, Louise, and children, Amy 17, Julian,16, and Grace, nine.

A member of the British Sub Aqua Club, he qualified as a dive leader in 2004 and completed more than 200 dives across the world.

His brother Simon said: "Dave was due to be my best man at the end of the month when I marry my fiancee.

"Everyone who met my brother liked him.

"He had lots of friends and was very generous with his time and support. He always had a positive outlook."

The Scylla was sent to the seabed three years ago by Devon schoolboy Daniel Green who joined environmentalist David Bellamy in pushing the plunger that sunk the ship.

The pair set off the charges that sank the decommissioned Royal Navy warship half a mile offshore.

A spokesman for the National Marine Aquarium, which owns the wreck, said it was safe but warned divers to take care.

My thoughts go out to the family

[britmaveric]

RIP

Need be very careful in Wreck dives - in an instant can be total silt out.

[mrtoad]

The Syclla is an excellent site for diving. It is heavily used and considering that this is only the second accident, then to say it needs a rethink is a little dramatic. All divers know the risks that they undertake, and whilst this is very sad, thousands of people will continue enjoying the great wreck diving sites around the glorious county of Cornwall.

[jackmuu]

Very sad, not a way I would like to go.

Sadly some people get complacent at times and forget how dangerous a wreck or any other dive can be.

RIP

[H2oDunc]

Mr Toad, just wondered how many deaths would be acceptable in your opinion before you deemed it in need of a a re think. For me the fact 1 person has died is cause for concern or mayb Im just being dramatic??????????

[chiliwasabi]

Mr Toad, just wondered how many deaths would be acceptable in your opinion before you deemed it in need of a a re think. For me the fact 1 person has died is cause for concern or mayb Im just being dramatic??????????

I have to agree with Mt Toad on this. I suggest that a distinct lack of air was the cause of this tragic death and the fact that it happened at a wreck is just an added detail rather than a cause.

Even an unskilled diver must be acutely aware of how much air they have at all times.

[H2oDunc]

I would put it that the fact they could not surface as they were inside a wreck may be the reason they ran out of air. For 1 person to have an OOA situation OK for 2 experienced people to have them then that would suggest that they ran out of air because they coud not surface. Wreck diving like cave diving calls for different tecniques to normal recreational diving.

It seems like your attitude is they ran out of air so its their own fault. I certainly wouldn't like you as a buddy

[jumnien]

Thailand related?

[chiliwasabi]

I would put it that the fact they could not surface as they were inside a wreck may be the reason they ran out of air. For 1 person to have an OOA situation OK for 2 experienced people to have them then that would suggest that they ran out of air because they coud not surface. Wreck diving like cave diving calls for different tecniques to normal recreational diving.

It seems like your attitude is they ran out of air so its their own fault. I certainly wouldn't like you as a buddy

Granted they may have become trapped or disorientated resulting in them running out of air and I was amiss to mention this in my previous post. Yes, I do believe they are at fault to some degree, however not having all the facts as to what actually happened, it would be presumptuous of me to speculate as to what degree that is.

As for having me as your buddy I can assure you that I am fastidious when it comes to safety and planning dives regardless of the level of risk involved. I can assure you that you would be in safe hands. I would however be a little hesitant diving with someone prone to dramatics .

[Etrigan]

Condolences. A terrible tragedy.

Let this be a stark reminder to all us divers to NEVER enter any underwater environment that prevents direct access to the surface without formal and regular training.

One should also consider that the diving conditions here in Thailand are nothing like those in the UK, there are more hazardous factors to consider in Blighty, even more so when coupled with BSAC's decompression diving procedures.

[britmaveric]

Wonder if they used proper techniques - mapping/orienteering, running trail lines ect..... before I took wreck dive course didn't realize how detailed you must be, and this is for good reason.

Quite imagine - confined quarters in a normal wreck, even more so in a sub - so prob got tangled up.

[H2oDunc]

MDE its diving related and its in the <deleted>^&*g diving section if all you can post is " Thailand related " Then dont read or bother to post. The title tells you what its about. This was a forum for mainly farang users. Most NORMAL people like to keep abreast of things happening at home. Try getting out a bit more

[mrtoad]

Mr Toad, just wondered how many deaths would be acceptable in your opinion before you deemed it in need of a a re think. For me the fact 1 person has died is cause for concern or mayb Im just being dramatic??????????

I'm not saying that any death is acceptable, but if you take into consideration the risks involved in wreck diving, the particular area they were diving in and compare it to the number of people who use the site, then it would suggest that it is still a pretty safe diving site. The law of averages will always make it likely that there will be unfortunate accidents from time to time.

Sorry, If I sounded callous in my original post, but it was not meant to sound like that and it certainly in my opininon isn't anyway.

[tropo]

Mr Toad, just wondered how many deaths would be acceptable in your opinion before you deemed it in need of a a re think. For me the fact 1 person has died is cause for concern or mayb Im just being dramatic??????????

Safe wreck diving requires skills that most people don't take the time to acquire. I know the article says they were skilled divers, but I believe it was a lack of skill (on wrecks) that killed these people. PADI regulations (techniques) are extremely conservative...so much so that people often scoff at them, but if they are taken seriously, unnecessary deaths like these can be avoided.

[Orion76]

Mr Toad, just wondered how many deaths would be acceptable in your opinion before you deemed it in need of a a re think. For me the fact 1 person has died is cause for concern or mayb Im just being dramatic??????????

Safe wreck diving requires skills that most people don't take the time to acquire. I know the article says they were skilled divers, but I believe it was a lack of skill (on wrecks) that killed these people. PADI regulations (techniques) are extremely conservative...so much so that people often scoff at them, but if they are taken seriously, unnecessary deaths like these can be avoided.

Right, if you explore a wreck without a guide who knows the wreck well and without a guiding line to find your way back out it doesn't matter how experienced you are if you can't find your way out and run out of air.

Diving any wreck is risky, a wreck labeled safe to dive is only safe if people dive using proper safety precautions.