Thai girlfriend - DWP PoL form for UK pension.

[5davidhen1]

Hi folks,

I know that many UK ex-pats have to deal with this every 2 years or so, but this concerns my THAI girlfriend who is in receipt of a small UK pension as a legacy from her late British national husband.

About 2-3 years ago she got her village headman to sign the form and DWP rejected it. I suspect that this was because the headman was also her brother, the form wasn't stamped and may have even contained Thai language written by her brother.

I rectified the problem for her by paying 1,000 baht to have a lawyer complete the form in English and authenticate it with an official stamp. I then, because of the delay which had already occurred, paid a further 1,000 baht to the Thai post office to effect a guaranteed speedy return. This was most annoying since, her pension payments amount to less than 1,000 baht per lunar month!

I have read a similar thread on this site BUT it relates to UK nationals and NOT to Thai nationals.

Does anyone know of a similar situation to my girlfriend's one, and can they advise on the following:

How can I avoid a 1,000 baht visit to a lawyer?

If I can effect the return in a timely manner, what method/price of postage would they suggest?

In the other thread to which I earlier referred, some respondents have stated that a stamp was not necessary but, I am pretty sure that the form does in fact, state that the stamp is required.  

Many thanks.

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, 5davidhen1 said:

Hi folks,

I know that many UK ex-pats have to deal with this every 2 years or so, but this concerns my THAI girlfriend who is in receipt of a small UK pension as a legacy from her late British national husband.

About 2-3 years ago she got her village headman to sign the form and DWP rejected it. I suspect that this was because the headman was also her brother, the form wasn't stamped and may have even contained Thai language written by her brother.

I rectified the problem for her by paying 1,000 baht to have a lawyer complete the form in English and authenticate it with an official stamp. I then, because of the delay which had already occurred, paid a further 1,000 baht to the Thai post office to effect a guaranteed speedy return. This was most annoying since, her pension payments amount to less than 1,000 baht per lunar month!

I have read a similar thread on this site BUT it relates to UK nationals and NOT to Thai nationals.

Does anyone know of a similar situation to my girlfriend's one, and can they advise on the following:

How can I avoid a 1,000 baht visit to a lawyer?

If I can effect the return in a timely manner, what method/price of postage would they suggest?

In the other thread to which I earlier referred, some respondents have stated that a stamp was not necessary but, I am pretty sure that the form does in fact, state that the stamp is required.  

Many thanks.

 

If your girlfriend is registered in the Thai health system she should be able to visit the local doctor or hospital and get it signed there. NO lawyer is necessary.

 

I went to my local hospital last week and all it cost was 50 thb for the doctors fee and the cashier stamped the form. Your girlfriend will be given 16 weeks from the date of the letter to return the completed form to the DWP. There is a thread running where posters have discussed prices for returning the form via Thai Post. Prices vary but the best price seems to be a longtabien for about 270 thb which can be tracked and gets to the DWP in a week or 10 days.

 

 

[it is what it is]

 

the forms usually specify who is eligible to sign as witness, and yes family members are usually not permitted, what do the witnessing instructions on the form state? i'd suggest following them...

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, 5davidhen1 said:

Hi folks,

I know that many UK ex-pats have to deal with this every 2 years or so, but this concerns my THAI girlfriend who is in receipt of a small UK pension as a legacy from her late British national husband.

About 2-3 years ago she got her village headman to sign the form and DWP rejected it. I suspect that this was because the headman was also her brother, the form wasn't stamped and may have even contained Thai language written by her brother.

I rectified the problem for her by paying 1,000 baht to have a lawyer complete the form in English and authenticate it with an official stamp. I then, because of the delay which had already occurred, paid a further 1,000 baht to the Thai post office to effect a guaranteed speedy return. This was most annoying since, her pension payments amount to less than 1,000 baht per lunar month!

I have read a similar thread on this site BUT it relates to UK nationals and NOT to Thai nationals.

Does anyone know of a similar situation to my girlfriend's one, and can they advise on the following:

How can I avoid a 1,000 baht visit to a lawyer?

If I can effect the return in a timely manner, what method/price of postage would they suggest?

In the other thread to which I earlier referred, some respondents have stated that a stamp was not necessary but, I am pretty sure that the form does in fact, state that the stamp is required.  

Many thanks.

 

 

 

The form doesn't require a stamp. FACT, they removed that requirement several years ago - Irrespective of that box still being on the letter.

 

They issued to say that anyone who could countersign a British passport application could witness a Life Certificate.

 

I doubt that this is a LC and I doubt (although remotely possible) that the GF is receiving a DWP pension payment.

 

 

I have never known DWP reject ANYTHING and I have always believed this to be a tick box exercise with the letters noted, filed (or shredded) in Wolverhampton.

[Moonlover]

3 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

The form doesn't require a stamp. FACT, they removed that requirement several years ago - Irrespective of that box still being on the letter.

 

They issued to say that anyone who could countersign a British passport application could witness a Life Certificate.

 

I doubt that this is a LC and I doubt (although remotely possible) that the GF is receiving a DWP pension payment.

 

 

I have never known DWP reject ANYTHING and I have always believed this to be a tick box exercise with the letters noted, filed (or shredded) in Wolverhampton.

The latest version of the DWP life certificate does call for a stamp. The witness signs to say: 'I have placed my official stamp on this form'. I completed my own DWP LC form just this week.

 

The O/P doesn't say so, but it's possible that his G/F lived in the UK with her late husband and worked there. In which case she would have accrued NI credits in her own name, thus entitling her to a pension.

[hotandsticky]

52 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

The latest version of the DWP life certificate does call for a stamp. The witness signs to say: 'I have placed my official stamp on this form'. I completed my own DWP LC form just this week.

 

The O/P doesn't say so, but it's possible that his G/F lived in the UK with her late husband and worked there. In which case she would have accrued NI credits in her own name, thus entitling her to a pension.

 

 

As I said, there is a REMOTE possibility that she is entitled to a state pension in her own right. The only other possibility is an occupational pension (which is more likely to the reference to PoL rather than LC.

 

As I also said - the stamp is no longer required. You obviously didn't believe my post so I will try and find the DWP reference point......this to keep you going:-

 

 

AI Overview

Learn more

No, a stamp is not required for a Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) life certificate in the UK. However, you will need to have the form signed by a witness. 

Explanation

A life certificate is a form that the DWP sends to people who live outside the UK to confirm they are still eligible for a UK State Pension. 

You should return the form as soon as possible. 

If you don't return the form, your payments may be suspended. 

You should follow the instructions on the form, including who can sign as a witness. 

You can provide a document with your photograph, such as a passport, national identity card, or driving license, to the person witnessing your declaration. 

[hotandsticky]

4 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

 

 

They issued to say that anyone who could countersign a British passport application could witness a Life Certificate. 

 

They do not need to live in the UK, or have a British passport.

Please note that Consular Officials at your local Embassy are no longer supposed to act as witnesses for this purpose.

 

Examples of people working in (or being retired from) recognised professions resp “persons of good standing in their community” are:

 

 accountant  airline pilot  articled clerk of a limited company  assurance agent of recognised company  bank/building society official  barrister  chairman/director of limited company  chiropodist  commissioner of oaths  councillor (local or county)  civil servant (permanent), but not someone who works for Her Majesty’s Passport Office  dentist  director/manager of a VAT-registered charity  director/manager/personnel officer of a VAT-registered company  engineer (with professional qualifications)  financial services intermediary (eg a stockbroker or insurance broker)  fire service official  funeral director  insurance agent (full time) of a recognised company  journalist  Justice of the Peace  legal secretary (fellow or associate member of the Institute of Legal Secretaries and PAs)  licensee of public house  local government officer  manager/personnel officer (of a limited company)  member, associate or fellow of a professional body  Member of Parliament  Merchant Navy officer  minister of a recognised religion (including Christian Science)  nurse (RGN and RMN)  officer of the armed services  optician  paralegal (certified paralegal, qualified paralegal or associate member of the Institute of Paralegals)  person with honours (an OBE or MBE, for example)

 

 pharmacist  photographer (professional)  police officer  Post Office official  president/secretary of a recognised organisation  Salvation Army officer  social worker  solicitor  surveyor  teacher, lecturer  trade union officer  travel agent (qualified)  valuer or auctioneer (fellows and associate members of the incorporated society)  Warrant Officers and Chief Petty Officers

 

 

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5d1dc20540f0b609da30d3e1/5_Life_Certificate_Witness_Options.pdf

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

The latest version of the DWP life certificate does call for a stamp. The witness signs to say: 'I have placed my official stamp on this form'. I completed my own DWP LC form just this week. 

 

 

That is not the latest version; the current letters say:-

 

 "IF you have an official stamp for yourself or your company place it here".

  

 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/67160776e94bb9726918ee90/Life_Certificate.pdf

 

[billd766]

53 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

As I said, there is a REMOTE possibility that she is entitled to a state pension in her own right. The only other possibility is an occupational pension (which is more likely to the reference to PoL rather than LC.

 

As I also said - the stamp is no longer required. You obviously didn't believe my post so I will try and find the DWP reference point......this to keep you going:-

 

 

AI Overview

Learn more

No, a stamp is not required for a Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) life certificate in the UK. However, you will need to have the form signed by a witness. 

Explanation

A life certificate is a form that the DWP sends to people who live outside the UK to confirm they are still eligible for a UK State Pension. 

You should return the form as soon as possible. 

If you don't return the form, your payments may be suspended. 

You should follow the instructions on the form, including who can sign as a witness. 

You can provide a document with your photograph, such as a passport, national identity card, or driving license, to the person witnessing your declaration. 

Well the life certificate that I received yesterday clearly show that a stamp IS required, so your information may need to be updated.

 

On page 6 there is a place for an official stamp underneath the 4 lines about  Photographic proof seen by the witness. Please record country of issue and reference number.

 

1.   Passport details

2.   National identity card

3.   Driving licence

4.   Other (please specify)

 

My LC was dated 06 January 2025 and I have 16 weeks to return the form by airmail.

 

I would rather believe the paper in my hand that a poster on AN.

 

If necessary I can redact the personal details on the form, scan both sides and post it on this thread. There are 6 pages in all.

 

 

 

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

As I said, there is a REMOTE possibility that she is entitled to a state pension in her own right. The only other possibility is an occupational pension (which is more likely to the reference to PoL rather than LC.

 

As I also said - the stamp is no longer required. You obviously didn't believe my post so I will try and find the DWP reference point......this to keep you going:-

 

 

AI Overview

Learn more

No, a stamp is not required for a Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) life certificate in the UK. However, you will need to have the form signed by a witness. 

Explanation

A life certificate is a form that the DWP sends to people who live outside the UK to confirm they are still eligible for a UK State Pension. 

You should return the form as soon as possible. 

If you don't return the form, your payments may be suspended. 

You should follow the instructions on the form, including who can sign as a witness. 

You can provide a document with your photograph, such as a passport, national identity card, or driving license, to the person witnessing your declaration. 

I certainly would not accept ANY AI overview information.

[Moonlover]

47 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

The latest version of the DWP life certificate does call for a stamp. The witness signs to say: 'I have placed my official stamp on this form'. I completed my own DWP LC form just this week. 

 

47 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

That is not the latest version; the current letters say:-

 

 "IF you have an official stamp for yourself or your company place it here".

  

 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/67160776e94bb9726918ee90/Life_Certificate.pdf

 

 

Are you seriously trying to tell me that Life Certificate that I received just last week is not the latest version?

 

I say again, the one I received includes the words 'I have placed my official stamp on this form'.

 

And that other stuff you posted earlier was AI burble which has no official weight at all. It's probably as out of date as the outdated link that you posted!

 

 

 

[jacko45k]

I have heard local police can witness the paper, and put an effective stamp on it. Also Thai Post registered mail is certainly less than 1000 baht to get it reliably sent. 

[Mutt Daeng]

11 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

12 hours ago, Moonlover said:

The latest version of the DWP life certificate does call for a stamp. The witness signs to say: 'I have placed my official stamp on this form'. I completed my own DWP LC form just this week. 

 

 

That is not the latest version; the current letters say:-

 

 "IF you have an official stamp for yourself or your company place it here".

  

 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/67160776e94bb9726918ee90/Life_Certificate.pdf

 

I got the same form as @Moonlover did which is why I could not sign my mates PoL. See attached image of witness declaration from the form I got on Jan 31st.

[Moonlover]

So, having settled the issue of the stamp requirement (I hope) @5davidhen1 as your girlfriend's brother is the Phu Yai Ban, he will most certainly know the senior personnel in her local district office.

 

My wife's nephew is our Phu Yai Ban and that is where I go, with his cooperation, to get my form signed and STAMPED.

 

Fill in as much detail as you can in English (You can get the office address, in English, from google maps) and have the senior officer sign and stamp. There should be no charge for this.

 

If you want to be sure that the letter is delivered, use registered post at around 250 Bhat.

 

The above procedure has worked for me on 3 occasions at least now. Hope you find this helpful.

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, Mutt Daeng said:

I got the same form as @Moonlover did which is why I could not sign my mates PoL. See attached image of witness declaration from the form I got on Jan 31st.

 

 

Irrespective of the form MD, the stamp has not been required for many years. In the 'official stamp box' I add my own contact details and passport number (even that is unnecessary).

 

I witness 10/12 each year and I don't have a stamp.

[hotandsticky]

23 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

 

If you want to be sure that the letter is delivered, use registered post at around 250 Bhat.

 

The above procedure has worked for me on 3 occasions at least now. Hope you find this helpful.

 

 

I think that I am right in saying that the registered post only tracks the letter as far as arrival in the UK - there is no 'proof of receipt' in Wolverhampton. I will happily stand corrected on that one if anyone knows othyerwise.

 

I posted a witnessed Life Certificate (NOT STAMPED 😉) for a friend last week and the local post office said that 'normal' airmail was not available, only registered. I have never used registered and I knew that friends elsewhere used standard airmail last month - so I got the missus to try a different post office and she was successful.  

[Mutt Daeng]

43 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Irrespective of the form MD, the stamp has not been required for many years. In the 'official stamp box' I add my own contact details and passport number (even that is unnecessary).

 

I witness 10/12 each year and I don't have a stamp.

I agree it has not been a mandatory requirement in the past and I have signed many PoLs. Previously on the PoL it said "place your stamp in the box if you have one" (my words) but this year, by signing the form, the witness certifies that they HAVE put their stamp in the box.  I had gone to my mates house to sign his PoL but when I discussed it with him, he agreed that there was an element of risk (of the form being sent back) if I signed without a stamp. I said I would sign the form but I would either cross out the the bit saying I had put my stamp in the box or write on "I don't have a stamp". I'm not telling a lie on an official Govt form. We both ended up going to our local Doctor who did it for 200 baht.

[hotandsticky]

Just now, Mutt Daeng said:

I agree it has not been a mandatory requirement in the past and I have signed many PoLs. Previously on the PoL it said "place your stamp in the box if you have one" (my words) but this year, by signing the form, the witness certifies that they HAVE put their stamp in the box.  I had gone to my mates house to sign his PoL but when I discussed it with him, he agreed that there was an element of risk (of the form being sent back) if I signed without a stamp. I said I would sign the form but I would either cross out the the bit saying I had put my stamp in the box or write on "I don't have a stamp". I'm not telling a lie on an official Govt form. We both ended up going to our local Doctor who did it for 200 baht.

 

 

I think it was about 5 years ago that DWP advised me that a stamp was not required  -  it is a shame they didn't update their stationery at that time. 

 

Digital registration and annual online confirmation should replace paper versions of this process.

[Mutt Daeng]

2 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

I think it was about 5 years ago that DWP advised me that a stamp was not required  -  it is a shame they didn't update their stationery at that time. 

 

Digital registration and annual online confirmation should replace paper versions of this process.

100% agree

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Are you seriously trying to tell me that Life Certificate that I received just last week is not the latest version?

The one I received but a few days ago, after over a month in transit, does require  a stamp 

[Mutt Daeng]

50 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

I think that I am right in saying that the registered post only tracks the letter as far as arrival in the UK - there is no 'proof of receipt' in Wolverhampton. I will happily stand corrected on that one if anyone knows othyerwise.

 

I posted a witnessed Life Certificate (NOT STAMPED 😉) for a friend last week and the local post office said that 'normal' airmail was not available, only registered. I have never used registered and I knew that friends elsewhere used standard airmail last month - so I got the missus to try a different post office and she was successful.  

Registered airmail can be tracked to the final destination.

This is the tracking info for the PoL I submitted in 2023. First image shows Thai post tracking. The second image shows Royal Mail Tracking info which you can use once the item has arrived in the UK.

As you can see it shows final destination of Wolverhampton and the initials of the person receiving the letter.

 

[hotandsticky]

4 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

The one I received but a few days ago, after over a month in transit, does require  a stamp 

 

 

No it doesn't.

 

 

A stamp has not been required for at least 5 years.

 

 

Don't take it from me, email IPC.

[jacko45k]

Just now, hotandsticky said:

 

 

No it doesn't.

 

 

A stamp has not been required for at least 5 years.

 

 

Don't take it from me, email IPC.

Yes it does,  it is in front of me, how on earth can you see it?

 I will take instruction from the paperwork I received... there is a place on the witness  declaration for a stamp. The instructions say.... 'The official at the agency/institution you use will then sign and stamp the Life Certificate' . I would rather follow that, than some mouthy person on the internet.

[Mutt Daeng]

9 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Yes it does,  it is in front of me, how on earth can you see it?

 I will take instruction from the paperwork I received... there is a place on the witness  declaration for a stamp. The instructions say.... 'The official at the agency/institution you use will then sign and stamp the Life Certificate' . I would rather follow that, than some mouthy person on the internet.

Come on chaps, let's keep our cool. It's only a minor difference of opinion we are talking about.

[5davidhen1]

Alas, many members have tried to respond to my post without reading it properly!

 

It is my THAI girlfriend who is receiving the UK pension!

I know this to be factual because it was me who helped her to start receiving it!

She DID accrue some NI years stamps whilst working in the UK --- but fell short of the 10-year minimum requirement to secure a pension in her OWN RIGHT.

Her late husband was much older than her (in receipt of the old pension, before changes occurred in April 2016) and the pension which SHE is in receipt of is "on the back of" HIS NI contributions.

I hope this clarifies matters.

David. 

[Moonlover]

 

1 hour ago, Mutt Daeng said:

I agree it has not been a mandatory requirement in the past and I have signed many PoLs. Previously on the PoL it said "place your stamp in the box if you have one" (my words) but this year, by signing the form, the witness certifies that they HAVE put their stamp in the box.  I had gone to my mates house to sign his PoL but when I discussed it with him, he agreed that there was an element of risk (of the form being sent back) if I signed without a stamp. I said I would sign the form but I would either cross out the the bit saying I had put my stamp in the box or write on "I don't have a stamp". I'm not telling a lie on an official Govt form. We both ended up going to our local Doctor who did it for 200 baht.

 

I rather like to think that this has been caused by an 'administrative cock up' by the DWP when the POL form was last updated some years ago. A mistake that has now been corrected.

 

Like you I have always endeavoured to have a stamp affixed in the appropriate box, whether they insisted on it or not. A small detail now can save a lot of hassle later.

 

[Moonlover]

3 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

I think that I am right in saying that the registered post only tracks the letter as far as arrival in the UK - there is no 'proof of receipt' in Wolverhampton. I will happily stand corrected on that one if anyone knows othyerwise.

 

 

2 hours ago, Mutt Daeng said:

Registered airmail can be tracked to the final destination.

This is the tracking info for the PoL I submitted in 2023. First image shows Thai post tracking. The second image shows Royal Mail Tracking info which you can use once the item has arrived in the UK.

As you can see it shows final destination of Wolverhampton and the initials of the person receiving the letter.

 

I agree (once again!). I've sent many registered letters to the UK, including to DWP Wolves' address and I've always received 'proof of delivery'. Sometimes I even get to know the name of the person who signed for it!