Using Peganum Harmala to improve BPH symptoms

[simon43]

Peganum what??

 

For the sake of clarity, I ask Sheryl to review the linked academic paper in my post.  I don't want to be accused of being a 'quack' promoting some crazy snake oil.

 

https://clinphytoscience.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40816-021-00255-7

 

Peganum Harmula, also known by its common name of 'Rue', is a plant that grows in Iran.  Historically, it has been used for centuries as a herbal medicine to treat various different ailments.  I got an interest in this plant because of search engine references to its treatment to alleviate BPH symptoms and UTIs, especially bacteria-resistant bacteria.

 

The academic paper indicated that the seeds can be taken orally, about 5 grams per dosage (a quarter of a teaspoon).

 

Farmers in Iran know that this plant can be toxic, (as are many medicines if taken in excess), and that cattle can be poisoned by eating the plant.  (Well, presumably that's because the cows have not checked the correct dosage to treat their BPH lol!!)

 

Anyway, I've posted previously about my long-term UTIs.  Urine analysis did indicate that my E.Coli bacteria were susceptible to expensive medicines, but I decided to try taking some Harmala to see if it helped in any way.

 

The seeds of this plant are sold cheaply on Lazada. So for the past 4 weeks, I've been taking a daily dose of Harmala, chewing up the slightly bitter seeds.

 

I'm going back to Myanmar in a few days, so I did a PSA and Urine culture test a few days ago, just to make sure that my PSA was steady.

 

The PSA test - as reported in another thread - came back with a steady (but high) value of just under 11, but with no increase in value since my last test about 7 months ago.  I attribute the high value to my BPH, prostate calcium stones and long-term UTIs, and a biopsy previously found no cancer cells.

 

I just got the urine culture results, and ESBL E.Coli is still present.

 

But here is the very surprising news:

 

- Although the E.Coli is still present, I have no UTI symptoms, in that there is no awful fishy smell and no stinging when peeing.  My urine is a healthy pale yellow colour.

- I no longer dribble when peeing, but I have a continual stream of urine, not like a fire-hose, but much, much better than previously

- I no longer have to get up to pee in the night. Previously, I would get up perhaps 4 or 5 times. Even if I drink a small can of beer before going to bed, I'm comfortable all night and naturally wake up at about 5am.

- In the day time, I no longer have to pee multiple times, (which is a great help when teaching at school).

 

Finally, and this is the 'biggy', I no longer take Alfuzolin or Tamsulosin!  That's correct.  I stopped with this daily medication. All I take now is the Harmala.

 

I post this for others to consider and research.  Sheryl, I'd appreciate your professional comments on my situation.

 

 

[Sheryl]

One single, very small (90 men total between intervention anf control group) and short term  study of its use to reduce urinary obstruction due to BPH.

 

Not a  single study in humans of its effctiveness in treating any sort of UTI let alone prostatitis.

 

Insufficient data on safety for human consumption. ...especially if used long term. The plant is known to be toxic to many animals. 

 

You were told by your UK doctors what, based on culture & sensitivity findings     would treat your pristate infection. You aren't going to come up with a better solution via Google.

 

As for BPH symptoms, a choice between thorouhky  studied medications with clearly defined and quantified potential side effects on the one hand,  and a scarcely researched toxic weed on the other, is to me, a no brainer.  If you insist on an "alternative" remedy,   stick to things like saw palmetto snd milk thistle whose safety is much better documented. 

 

At least some of yout prostate enlargement may be due to the long-standing  chronic infection and resolving that might help. 

[simon43]

On 2/18/2025 at 1:24 PM, Sheryl said:

One single, very small (90 men total between intervention anf control group) and short term  study of its use to reduce urinary obstruction due to BPH.

 

Not a  single study in humans of its effctiveness in treating any sort of UTI let alone prostatitis.

 

Insufficient data on safety for human consumption. ...especially if used long term. The plant is known to be toxic to many animals. 

 

You were told by your UK doctors what, based on culture & sensitivity findings     would treat your pristate infection. You aren't going to come up with a better solution via Google.

 

As for BPH symptoms, a choice between thorouhky  studied medications with clearly defined and quantified potential side effects on the one hand,  and a scarcely researched toxic weed on the other, is to me, a no brainer.  If you insist on an "alternative" remedy,   stick to things like saw palmetto snd milk thistle whose safety is much better documented. 

 

At least some of yout prostate enlargement may be due to the long-standing  chronic infection and resolving that might help. 

Yet having taken the 1 gram recommended dose of Harmala for about 5 weeks:

 

- I no longer need to take any Alfusolin or Tamasulin at all (I had previously needed this daily drug for the past 5+ years or more).

- My urine stream is stronger and no dribbling

- I no longer have to get up 4-5 times/night to pee

- Although the bacteria is still present (according to the tests), I no longer have any fishy smell or stinging when peeing

 

Hmm, placebo effect? 🙂

 

 

[Puccini]

On 2/21/2025 at 1:46 PM, simon43 said:

...Hmm, placebo effect? 🙂

 

As there was no placebo group in the relevant study,

https://journalrip.com/Article/JRIP_20161228153646

it is difficult to tell.

 

I note that you mentioned that "this plant can be toxic" and personally, with any phytopharmakon based on a toxic plant I would be concerned about its LD₅₀ 

https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/ld50.html

and its therapeutic index (TI)

https://clinicalinfo.hiv.gov/en/glossary/therapeutic-index-ti

[simon43]

13 hours ago, Puccini said:

...

 

I note that you mentioned that "this plant can be toxic" and personally, with any phytopharmakon based on a toxic plant I would be concerned about its LD₅₀ 

https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/ld50.html

and its therapeutic index (TI)

https://clinicalinfo.hiv.gov/en/glossary/therapeutic-index-ti

Of course, many plants and natural substances can be toxic, if taken in excess, as is true of probably most prescribed medications.  I carefully checked the research into human toxicity and noted cases of poisoning where persons had ingested more than 100 grams of the substance - I'm following the recommended daily dosage of 1 gram.

 

The LD50 is about 500 mg/kg of body weight, or 75*0.5g = 37g in my case.  A safe dose is considered no more than 100mg/kg body weight = 0.1*75 = 7.5 grams in my case.

 

I also note the side-effects that have been observed in overdoses, and report that I have experienced no negative side-effects at all.  In fact, I have only observed positive side-effects, ie - a stronger urine stream, no urge to pee in the night etc etc - positives that were observed far less for me when taking alfuzosin or tamsulosin.

 

The available research into this plant does recommend further medical studies be carried out to investigate its apparent beneficial effects on those with BPH.

 

In my original post, I mentioned that my reason for initially taking this herbal medicine was to try to eliminate the ESBL E.Coli UTI that is ever-present in my prostate/bladder. Recent urine culture tests show that the E.Coli UTI is still present, but the symptoms of that UTI have significantly reduced. The improvement in my BPH symptoms was a surprise.

 

Anyway, I would suggest to others that they do not ingest these plant seeds unless they have read the scant research into its medical properties and made their own individual decision.

[Mark Nothing]

Congratulations on your success.

 

The Harvard Health definition of the placebo effect is the idea that your brain can make your body believe a fake treatment is the real thing and stimulate healing.

 

Why would you focus any time and effort on the fake treatment part?  A few years ago a poster mentioned my magic bullet treatment to help prostate problems might be a placebo effect and I decided to analyze the situation further and found out he was right.  The real power resided somewhere else.

 

Wouldn't it be more beneficial to focus your efforts on the flip side?   The fact that you have an innate ability to stimulate healing by using the power of belief in your mind. And learn how to hone this ability to use on demand and at will.  It seemed to me there was much more meat on the bone by following this route, so I did.  My experience wildly exceeded expectations and has been well worth the study time and implementation.

 

A key component of this process is learning to stimulate your immune system on two levels.   The physical body level with diet, excersise and doctor advice is the well known way.  Then the nonphysical realm of your mind which houses your intellect, thoughts and emotions.  Strengthening the mind in the right way seemed to transform the body.  You can create a symphony of healing via invisible wavelengths of energy emitted by this nonphysical realm by using this correctly that has profound positive effects on the physical body.  Some books I have read on the topic report 90%+ of the benefit comes from this application.

 

One of my favorite Holy Bible verses is physical training holds some value, but Godliness holds value to all things.  That is a hint to focus in a different direction then the peganum harmala seed from iran.